We can’t stop garden nuisance, say police
Tuesday 13th October 2009, 2:30PM BST.
Chief Inspector Ruari Hardy and environmental services officer Jan Dockerill at the sunken garden where rowdyism and vandalism are a worsening problem. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 0854433)
POLICE say they are powerless to prevent young people making a nuisance of themselves in the sunken gardens in Town.
The Guernsey Press has received many complaints about the state of the gardens and the language used by groups of up to 40 youngsters aged between 16 and 25 years old.
One visitor said they were ‘screaming and shouting utter filth, regardless of who sat around them or who was considering taking a seat’.
Chief Inspector Ruari Hardy said police knew that people were concerned about the gardens opposite the OGH Hotel and, while officers patrolled the area and there was CCTV, it was impossible to monitor it all the time.
‘There is no law to stop young people meeting there. These young people are part of our community. We can’t make them disappear,’ he said. But he did ask the groups to show some respect for the community.
Trees and plants have been damaged and the gardens are strewn with litter.
The Environment Department maintains the gardens. Environmental services officer (communications) Jan Dockerill said that while the department had no objections to young people using the gardens, they objected to the damage.
Paving slabs have been removed and branches snapped off trees. Staff have even been verbally abused while working there.
But young people using the garden said there was nothing for them to do – what was available was not what they wanted.
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I hardly consider a 25 year old to be a youngster and i certainly hope no one of that age would be hanging around shouting abusive things to people.
I have to say its a free, public place and if anyone is just “hanging” around and NOT making a show of themselves then surely they are free to stay there but if they are caught in the act cant the police remove them?
I guess it comes down to the fact there isnt enough in place to entertain the younger generation?!
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why cant the police do anything? these yobs have cause this damage and put litter every where there are laws about this
they say they have nothing to do.we they can start by cleaning up the area and replacing the stuff they have broken .this might give them some pride in the area
We all know what it is like to be young and just want to sit and chat .but thin k of others first .
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What a sad level our society has sunk to!
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See if you let them drink in the Sunken Gardens again they would all fall asleep and be no trouble to anybody…………
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I agree with the police in this case – in fact I think CI Hardy pretty much has it spot on. The youngsters have every right to hang out in the sunken gardens as they are a part of our community. Yes they may use language which is loud and offensive however it’s probably no worse than what I hear in the office or pub from so called respectable businessmen.
Nevertheless – that doesn’t give an excuse for anti-social behaviour. Simply to use the claim that what is available “isn’t what we want to do” as an excuse for antisocial behaviour is unacceptable. There are lots of things that many of us would like to do but for various reasons can’t – that doesn’t give anyone the excuse to behave in an antisocial manner or criminal damage.
It’s difficult to find an acceptable solution however a bit of mutual respect would certainly help. The young people should tone down the language (or at least turn down the volume a bit) and respect others in the area; in return the rest of the community should respect the young people that are as much a part of the community as we are and not just expect them to disappear as soon as so called “respectable” folk turn up.
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Whilst I find groups of foul mouthed youths congregating and making a general nuisance of themselves as abhorrent as everybody else, I wonder if anyone has bothered asking them the obvious:
If, according to the report above, “there was nothing for them to do – what was available was not what they wanted”, what is it that they actually want to do?? Once we find that out, then we can begin to sort these issues.
I’m only in my early 30′s, so not an oldie by any means, but the short time ago when I was that age we used to have hobbies/interests and spent our free time doing something constructive, not just hanging around, bored and complaining of having nothing to do.
To the bored youths – There is ALWAYS something to do, especially in a beautiful place like Guernsey, it all comes down to whether or not you have the motivation to get off your backsides and find something that interests you. If some of you younger people really have nothing that you are interested in, then I feel truly sorry for you, but I am certain that with a bit of motivation and imagination you can find something rewarding to do with your time.
One small additional observation, if CCTV isn’t being monitored all the time, what the hell is the point of having it?? If it is a man-power problem, there are currently 450 people out of work in Guernsey currently, of which i am one. If you would like somebody to help you monitor your CCTV network, just shout!!
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Why don’t the garden owners/workers organise some events for these youngsters – get them growing thier own veg or quick salad maybe -
even eventually eating them in the garden= get them to provide some entertainkent if poassible,.Youngsters need structure and feelings of self worth
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this shows that young people just dont have a care in the world about the sunken garden.
best someone fills it in and put atea room or outside cafe there then we can all enjoy it ,
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I thought dropping litter was an offence?
Laos if I ran through town on a Saturday night using language like these yobs do then I would be arrested for being disorderly and using foul and abusive language
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There’s nothing they can do about it? Sums up today’s society. May as well surrender now to the ever-growing hordes of teenage terrorists.
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Surely if these hooligans are swearing they can be removed using “Breach of the Peace” ? How about introducing UK ASBOS ? Why not introduce UK laws preventing the gathering of groups of youths ?
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Hi all.
How ridiculous……how are the police powerless?
3 offences stike me immediately, criminal damage, littering and public order.
GD.
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Make that 4 sorry….theft!!!!!
GD.
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So the Guernsey police force who are trained for a terrorist attack are again powerless to stop a bunch of kids in the gardens.
Come on everyone don’t stand for it. The police are paid by us to sort this kind of thing out.
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The police say they are powerless to prevent young people making a nuisance of themselves in the sunken gardens in Town. Can this be true? If so, what kind of criminal behaviour do the police feel they do have the power to prevent?
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Dropping litter is a criminal offence isn`t it?
If it is then arrest them and make their parents
take some of the rap.
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Big shout going out to DavidG!!!
Contact the Guernsey police and they will be more than happy to hook you up with some community support officers work. If voyeurism is your thing this might even include some CCTV manning!!
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I don`t believe its got anything to do with not having anything to do. The truth is some people just find it more fun to be causeing trouble of some sort, they get a real buzz from it. You could give some of them any amount of things they could do and they`d still cause troulble. Thank god it`s only a minority that are like that.
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C’mon, I think we all know the only realistic solution here….
The one true answer where law and order has broken down…
When our elected officials and police force are powerless to act…
SAVE US GUERNSEY BOYS!!!
Where are Guernsey’s lardy vigilantes in our darkest hour?!
Surely it can’t be that difficult to load some youths into a skip and cart them off to a police impound?!
I hear that Thomas Holroyd is thinking about dumping some youths in Cobo Car Park.
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What a shame the police yet again can not do anything!!! come on nip the problem in the bud before they grow up and start causing more trouble on a friday and saterday night after legaly drinking! and there children are doing what they were doing…
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Whatever did the police buy new uniforms for?
What’s the point; If they can’t do the job then they shouldn’t be in the force.
I have always believed (it seems wrongly) the the job of the police was primarily to keep law and order.
Then if they can’t do that, then Bye bye. simple as that: They cannot claim wrong dismissal, because they signed up to keep law and order: if they can’t do that ; then it’s breach of contract, and dismissal should be in order.
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When I was a boy I had a bike,a fishing rod,and the North cinema on a saturday morning.I neither thought that I had nothing to do,nor did I expect anyone to supply me with “entertainment”.I was once caught pinching apples by the local copper,who clipped me behind the ear and said don’t ever do it again.I ran home in tears to tell Dad,who promptly gave me another for good measure.
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I think everyone who has posted comments has made very good suggestions; however, I have one more to add.
Where I’m from (USA), the most effective law we have to keep disorderly youths in line is a curfew, which is age banded. For example:
Under 15: 10pm
15-16: 11pm
16-18: Midnight
If youths are out after these hours without a parent, police just pick them up and either take them home or take them to the police station. There’s no reason people that young should be out at all hours. This blanket law would be much easier to enforce than try to find a specific law that they are breaking.
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This has turned in to another ‘bash the policeman’ topic.
I have a question for all of the experts out there:
Was it the kids in the sunken gardens who caused the criminal damage and stole items? You don’t know do you. Just the same as the police don’t know. If it was ‘the kids’, which one was it? You can’t blanket prosecute them all in the hope you get the offender – our criminal justice system doesn’t work like that.
The reason none of us know is because the only way to know ‘who dunnit’ would be to have someone watching the location at all times. Hardly a good use of resources is it?
Come on people, think before taking the easy option of blaming the police.
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DS
Are the gardens not covered by CCTV?
And surely, bearing in mind the location, it is not beyond the capability of the police to check the gardens on a very regular basis?
I don’t think it’s a case of “bashing the police”, just that the average person cannot understand why it is not possible to uphold law and order at a location that is covered by CCTV and situated 1 minute’s walk from the police station.
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I did not ‘Blame’ the police:
I simply said; if they have admitted they cannot control the afore mentioned place then why are they in uniform.
They according to the report said ” We cannot stop the garden nuisance”
That to me is defeatist.
OK so let us think a little more positive before we blame all and sundry.
The Chief of Police should demand that those cameras be mounted strategically and one man could monitor the various camera badly needed in many parts of town.
It is not *bash the police ‘ at all, goodness me what is wrong in putting forward citizens ideas, No wonder people will not speak out if they are to be ridiculed for speaking out.
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“You can’t blanket prosecute them all in the hope you get the offender – our criminal justice system doesn’t work like that.”
DS has hit the nail on the head.
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This is the sort of scenario that detached youth workers wouldm have a part to play. Never mind the ‘we have nothing to do’: what most people want, including young people, is to feel valued and listened to. That is what youth workers do. This is something the youth service could pick up on.
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Phil…
Take a trip down to the gardens and look at where the cameras are – you will see that the coverage is far from comprehensive. And in darkness, how good do you think the picture is likely to be?
And as for the idea of the police checking the gardens regularly, can those who think this will work also suggest to those committing the offences that they continue to do so when the police are watching?! With such joined up thinking and cooperation from the offenders the police are bound to get easy results.
Of course, the officer presence is a deterrent, but it is when the officers are not present that the offences are committed.
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Eric…
There is nothing wrong with putting forward citizen ideas, but in your previous post, your ‘citizen idea’ was simply to sack the police. Hardly an idea was it?
Your most recent post is much nearer the mark. If you care as much as you seem to why don’t you write to the Chief of Police and make your suggestion to him? Perhaps you will make a difference – and there is no doubt that the whole community has a role to play in resolving these problems.
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