It IS time to loosen our ties with the UK
Friday 23rd October 2009, 11:30AM BST.
Constitutional meeting chairman Bruce Parker, left, with Advocate Roger Perrot who organised the event. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 0861212)
A PACKED St James voted overwhelmingly in favour of Guernsey opening discussions with the UK about increased independence.
More than 400 people attended last night’s open meeting at which Advocate Roger Perrot and barrister Hugh Bygott-Webb put forward their arguments about the future of Guernsey’s relationship with the UK.
Advocate Perrot argued that Guernsey should become a Crown Associate of the UK, as opposed to being a Crown Dependency.
‘I’m not trying to go entirely independent,’ he said. ‘I am after less dependency on the UK and being more associated. Maybe we should be a Crown-associated island, or maybe [have] dominion status.’
He said the island’s relationship with the UK had changed, and that meant how the island dealt with the UK should change too.
‘Until the 1970s the UK had a truly paternal, benign attitude towards Guernsey,’ he said. ‘Now they don’t have our interests at heart.’
He said now was the time for the island to change.
‘I want the Queen to be our head of state, but only have to have powers we vest in her.’
* Approved motion: ‘This meeting calls for the States of Deliberation to initiate negotiations with the UK Government to give Guernsey autonomy in international affairs and legislative process.’
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Look at the mess the uk goverment have got there country in.Why on earth would we want to associate ourselves with them or take any advice from them! When they can run there own country properly then they can come and give us advice on how to run our island…stay well clear
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It would be great but they have the say not us and if Blair assumes command with the EU empire they probably wont allow it.
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Never mind what they do or have done, that is of little consequence in the long run.
It is every land’s God given right to rule their own land, and by so doing with their own politicians.
The polling stations should show that; at the same time only Born people of that land should be entitled to rule their own.
The talk that goes on about Human rights, and this and that rights, is only talk;
Let’s have some action, Let us back to Ebeneezer’s time, Others may visit us as before, but just keep out of our way of doing things, Never mind who they are or if they’ve been there 100years
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It IS time to loosen our ties with the UK?
Lots of big time belt tightening will have to be done at the same time then.
Constitutionally the islands system of governance is wide open to anybody with the will, desire and finances to attack it.
The authorities could not afford to get into a battle similar to what its little neighbour Sark has.
It simply would not have a leg to stand on. I am very sure the authorities on the island would come unstuck very quickly indeed.
Changes to the constitution are already in the pipeline. The local tortoise like system wont be allowed to drag its feet for ever either!
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so 400 people in st james represent the whole island,bet it was mainly perrot supporters.lets have a referendum and give everyone a say,and not just let it be decided by elite groups of a few people.
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What I agree with is that Guernsey’s relationship with the UK has changed. Perrot is right inasmuch as the that paternal relationship is no more and us seemingly becoming an irritant. Where I part company with him is the idea of negotiating a new status with the UK government.
If, and that’s a big if, we want a change of status going it alone is not the strategy.
We could start with our own constitution – no doubt the minds of Adv. Perrot and his comrades could cobble one together. Paralel to that we create some kind of federation with the Jersey.
With a constitution and a federation and an agreed negotiating strategy with Jersey we are stronger.
Failing that we could sometimes just say ‘no’ to the UK reminding them of our constitutional relationship and ancient rights and privileges.
And just to remind people how a pain big a pain in the rear the UK could become in any unilateral declaration of Independence look up what was called the Hovering Act when UK Excise cutters sat outside St Peter Port checking the moements of all of our shipping.
Without any formal strategy talk of Dominion status or even Independence is intriguing at best a middle class conceit at worst.
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Hey JJ who made the financial mess in the UK, surly it was the financial industry that has stuffed it up for all of us.
The tax payer is still paying for the fat cats mess the very same fat cats that now rule Guernsey.
Will you still have the day off for liberation day I wonder after your independence
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Paul.
I agree with what you have written,
However surely Guernsey was a bit weak in not standing by Sark; after all said and done they are or perhaps was part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey.,
Then surely it was our bounden duty to assist the smaller Islands of the Bailiwick,
This selling off of our Jewels is against all Islanders wishes and should stop.
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I didn’t orginate here, and have a few years to go before I get frogged marched off the island.
Personnly, I would rather stay here. It appears I get associated with the UK though and I seem to be the brunt of all that is wrong with the island!
So, what do I have to look forward to? Being pushed off somewhere that is a great place to go back to somewhere I left as it wasn’t and isn’t and probably won’t be a great place, or stay only to be told I don’t belong here and I am not wanted.
I think we need to hit a bit of middle ground here, and that also applies to the relationship with the UK.
That said, not discussing it is worse than agreeing to remain as we are, so get the discussion out in the open for everyone on the island to have their input in.
Then at least the elected can then choose to lead on, or ignore.
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The fact that some 22% of Brits say they are more inclined to vote for a far right party despite a dismal TV debute from it’s leader suggests to me that we really ought to be thinking about putting a bit more clear blue water between ourselves and the UK whilst we still can?
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Eric
It was Sark that was left weakened without the backing of the Guernsey authorities. I have it that the Guernsey Law Officers did assist Sark up to a certain point.
The trouble with the them is that they only wish to hear what they want to and chose to interpret things as they see fit.
Guernsey did not wish to back the little island with actions they knew only to well what the outcome would be.
Sarkees have themselves to thank for the situation they now find. The only real loss to them is the man at the top being stripped with the powers and advantages that he has come to expect and enjoy for so long.
The advantages will show themselves over a period of time but it will be a while before the islanders will be able to identify them. This could be due to the brainwashing on the island and also the petty resistance to change back biting brigade.
This is exactly the same position that Guernsey is in but without having the might of anybody else to back them with regards of influence in resolving issues that will arise in the future.
Sark and Guernsey are so similar. The test of the outcome will be also.
The Guernsey authorities are self preserving just the same as Sarks were. The people that have been unelected have far too many powers and responsibilities.
It may work for the island and those with the vested interests. In the real world it is far from compliant with human rights or any other rights that are fair to many, other than the very people that are making it work for their own egos and the roles that they have been fortunate to have landed for themselves.
One only needs to look at the roles and see how these have been passed down through generations to a select few family names to be able to spot a conflict of self interests.
Just as quickly as Sark has had its constitution crushed Guernsey will be next. I don’t believe the island has the will or the skill to change things in a timely manner so that everything is above board enough to keep the masses happy with the outcome.
Guernsey is happy to turn to the UK when it suits but wanting to have nothing to do with them when it doesn’t.
I predict the island will get lost in a never ending battle of wits over legislation and procedural arguments if it decides to go it alone.
The outcome is so far on the horizon that very few on the island will be able to say whether it could be good or bad.
I know of a few that may have ideas but with the many changes and challenges when the ball starts rolling who really knows where it could end up?
Channel islanders fear change very much. There will good things as well as the not so good. These next couple of years will be interesting as well as tough challenging times for the islands selected few.
The biggest laugh at the authorities on this island is the fact that they wish to attract high net worth individuals. When they get their wish they don’t want to play fair and accommodate them with regards to compliance experienced and taken for granted elsewhere.
It is these high net worth few that are going to crush the constitution as we know it. And in my opinion rightly so. The quicker the better as far as I am concerned.
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RICHARD Eventually this island of ours is going to have to accept that we have a huge federal socalist super power forming on our doorstep, of which the UK will be part. It is undemocratic and totally hostile to our island and its way of life. The unelected bureaucrats in Brussels are achieving by stealth, what Hitler failed to achieve by force. The current UK government regards us as expendable and shares the EU’s view of us. They aim to legislate us out of business over a period of time, and to incorporate us into the federation. Our status will be that of an irrelevant impoverished off shore back water, dependant on subsidies from our EU masters. I think that Roger Perrot senses this, and I wish him well in his efforts to save his Island.
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Hi Guernsey from an interested Isle of Man reader.
It seems that the UK have upset quite a few people recently and maybe some consideration should be given for the islands including Ireland, to reconsider their stance and join together in promoting a united front. How this would work and what would it entail is something that the big thinkers would need to do, but it would appear that the UK is picking us off, one by one.
Thoughts on this?
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Licence holder
As Housing Minister I take great exception to one part of your post, nobody is frogged marched off of the island, people’s licence terms come to an end and people are required to leave. If your visa was up in Australia or New Zealand or many other countries I doubt very much if you would complain that you are being “frogged marched” out of the country. All countries and jurisdictions have immigration and population controls, we are no different. Clearly you were aware of the conditions and length of your licence and therefore agreed to those conditions before you came.
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Richard I could not agree with you more, the United Kingdom has now become a region of a country called Europe and as a result of the handing over of UK sovereignty to the un-elected in Brussels our constitutional position has become to some extent more precarious. What needs to happen in my view and something I will be pressing for the drafting of a written bill of rights agreed by all the islands that will enshrine once and for all our privileges and constitutional freedoms in an unambiguous written charter for the Channel Islands. A constitution that clearly preserves our autonomy and our unique constitutional position into a new modern charter, reflecting the sovereignty and liberty given to these islands, first laid down in the Royal Charters of 1204.
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‘Until the 1970s the UK had a truly paternal, benign attitude towards Guernsey,’ he said. ‘Now they don’t have our interests at heart.’
…did they? Really? Well, I s’pose if we forget that little blip where they offered us no assistance at all during the last invasion by a European country, you could say that……
so what happened in the 70′s then? Oh yes, of course, the finance industry arrived, and starting taking advantage of the CI’s offshore status and all it offered in terms of ‘alternative’ solutions to all those high Taxes and irritating regulations and laws that the silly ol UK had….
that’s the same UK that had to bail out many of its Banks recently with it’s taxpayers money….
and that’s the same Banks who have representatives here who continue to take advantage of our status, a position which when viewed objectively could be seen as rather, shall we say, tenuous, in this current climate.
The problem I see is that we’re stuck between the devil and the deep blue here, as our local Government is as equally out of touch and ineffective as the UK one……or have we all forgotten the large amount of money we paid out recently for a Government audit, only to have it’s comments, mostly negative, openly and shamelessly shelved and totally ignored? The ridiculous overspends on various projects? The local politicians who’s personal business interests have been brought into question over the years?
Is that REALLY the actions of a Government that we want to have (almost) total autonomy over us? Are we absolutely sure we’re not diving straight into the fire by supporting an idea that could make other countries embargo us, give our States members even more power, less accountability, and isolate us even further from the rather large, power on our doorstep – not only the EU – but the ‘the rest of the world’?
I don’t support the activities of the UK Government either, certainly not with it’s lastest lot of scandalous behaviour regarding the expenses of it’s members, but before I vote for independence, I will be taking an equally long hard look at our own Government and it’s members – and asking a lot of questions.
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licence holder
did you know that when you came here you would have to leave when your licence was up?
also depending on your job you may have recieved relocation expenses and housing allowance which local folks don’t. yes you’ve contributed whilst here but you will have been well paid for the job you do.you may also be doing a job that a local person is now qualified\experienced enough to do. you know the rules when you come.
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Richard
Why would the EU wish to impoverish Guernsey and then welcome it into the club?
Is the doomsday scenario one where they will impoverish Guernsey and leave it to its own devices?
My own view is that the EU (and Pa Broon) are willing to let Guernsey exist with relatively little fiscal damage.
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Stephen it is about control, the EU loathes anything it can’t control and breaking us they hope would force us into their grasp, they don’t mind funding a few Euros as it is not there money it is all about bringing us to heel with the help of a compliant Labour government Not while I have anything to do with it.
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News just in:
The battlements are manned at Castle Jones. The shabby are now polished, the eyes bright at the prospect.
Field Marshall Perrot rouses the Mouse.
The crowd throng.
“We gather here today within the walls of Castle Jones, Heaven Born And Ever Bright. The crashing waves of history have washed clean our Righteous Purpose and rounded our pebbles, arranged as the constellations of fate. And when the slings of Honour let loose their last, as we,the Freemen Of All Guernsey retake what is ours, the sun will rise once more
For Parish! For Plutocracy! For Pariah Status!
Never again shall we Comply with forces darker than dark! Only the ones with money they want to hide! Call GuernseyFinance! I’ll give you the number at the end of the speech!
Fight bravely, fight unfairly, do what you can to steal all their money, but most of all Attract Oligarchs and Chinese Corruption! Onwards to the engines, Commanders, Castle Jones has stood the test of logic, reality and reasonableness, and Failed Majestically! With the strength of this conviction We Will Overcome! We will defend our right to Obscurity and Ridicule!
EschewEU!
Stop laughing at the back!”
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I appologies if “frog marched” was an inappropriate phrase and I understand if it caused distress to any readers.
Typically, the same old ” you knew the deal” statement occurs again as though those who accepted the license have no idea what they are doing.
My point being, I came here as it was an opportunity, and the UK isn’t. If there is a better way forward (and clearly dicussing it is needed) which benefits the people of Guernsey I would wish to stay on. In fact, I would wish to stay on anyway.
But that is not an option. There is no chance to stay on. Which basically means that an additonal relocation allowance will be paid out to whoever replaces me.
I think Population control is a very good thing for the island and I don’t have any issue with the principle behind it.
However getting back to the point. If we don’t discuss the changes that could be made with the UK we are not going to more forward, and end up with more of big brothers bright ideas. Some of which maybe a benefit. Some of which are hardly likely to be in our favour.
And how much does a discussion cost?
Everybody on the island should have their input for the elected respresentatives to do their job properly for the benefit of the island. So that just needs organising.
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I think the UK are getting to the end of their teather with the Channel Islands as well so it probably wouldn’t mind if we cut the umbilical cord. Besides we could never handle the consequences of implementing all that EU legislation over here. Also chances are we would be net contributors to EU funds given are comparative average incomes.
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Dave Jones
Very good response to “licence holder” which I totally agree with.
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The EU is an empire by the backdoor.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/oct/28/tax-more-tax-havens-told?CMP=AFCYAH
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blimey!
dave jones and me in general agreement it must be a miracle!
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I am still confused about the rights of licence holders, some seem to be able to stay a lot longer than others, I agree with the control on population, but in the situation of cutting ties with UK how many Islanders would have a change of heart if they had to apply for permission to stay in GB and be “frog marched” out when the time came. There cannot be 1 law for being local and another to have the rights to live anywhere in the UK.
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Kevin
I don’t think that is so strange both of us have Guernsey’s best interests at heart.
Caroline
Licence period vary with the majority being kept at five years or less. We are not part of the UK or Great Britain and we have our own immigration laws and population control measures, if the UK wanted to impose restrictions on Channel Island residents then that would be a matter for them but just because they have an open door policy on residents does not mean that we have to follow suit.
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Good luck with your campaign for greater independence. We in England are also sick of the UK (and the EU) and its minority government, elected to almost totalitarian power by 20% of the electorate on an electoral system not thought fit for Scotland, Wales & N Ireland and now led by a Prime Minister who ducked an election and reneged on a Lisbon referendum. Yes, all peoples have the right to rule their own ‘God-given’ land, except the English. Laws for England are foisted on the people by the lobby fodder votes of Scots and Welsh MPs whose constituents are not affected by such laws as health, devolution, transport etc are devolved. Restoring democracy to England and cutting the size of the overbearing UK govt would enable all parts of the British Isles to determine the form of governemnt best suited to their needs.
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to the politians
If we became independent can we set our own immigration policy?
why do we let eastern Europeans and Africans in when we have unemployed?
Can’t someone have a word with the big 4 accounting firms and tell then bringing in all these African accountants is not on?
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Chris, your comment could easily be considered racist.
I wasn’t aware that Guernsey was awash with local unemployed accoutants?
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sigh
Here we go.
‘Nationalists’ on patrol.
Obviously with our best intentions at heart.
Presumably, Ian Campbell and Chris, you’re pleased with the incoming Tories, being overtly anti EU and siding with far right nostaligics?
So where’s your beef?
Bingo card at the ready.
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chris
your post is racist. We let eastern europeans and guest workers of many nationalities work here because we need them they do the jobs Guernsey folks will not do, simple as that. How many times do people like you have to be told.
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Chris
First, I was under the impression that Guernsey does create it’s own immigation policy. Housing licences are controlled by the States of Guernsey, not the UK government or EU.
Second, in relation to accountants, as has already been posted I don’t see many accountants on the dole queue so what’s the problem?
Third, the number of immigrant workers outnumbers the number of unemployed so even if, as you seem to be suggesting, we kick them all off the island we will be short on workers. Extremely counter-productive to say the least.
Kevin – unfortunately it seems it needs to be said a few more times.
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