‘Food tax’ could kill businesses
Saturday 24th October 2009, 2:29PM BST.
Nur Miah, of The Indian Cottage on The Bridge, said islanders should be able to choose for themselves what they wanted to eat. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 0862077)
Public health director Dr Stephen Bridgman made the recommendation in his annual health report, as a measure to tackle obesity.
But Bridge Candy Shop joint owner Daphne Brouard said that such criteria could cause everything the shop sold to be classed as unhealthy.
‘So what the States are saying is that they want people to buy less from our shop and if they do that, we will be out of business.’
Mrs Brouard said combined with the impending ban on tobacco advertising and the recession, her business could not take any more knocks.
‘I doubt our premises are big enough to be turned into another charity shop. Everything is fattening if you eat enough of it. We think more incentive should be given to people to exercise.’
Paperbox proprietor Phillip Morgan said Guernsey was allowing the UK to set its agenda.
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Firstly, fast food outlets like McD’s already pays extra tax in the UK and when I walked past at lunchtime they certainly weren’t suffering…
Secondly, what is the problem with copying the UK from time to time? The UK government has spent billions on researching ways to cut obesity, Guernsey doesn’t have billions to spend on obesity research and if it did, we’d only end up with the same conclusions, so, you know, it kinda makes sense to copy the UK.
Illnesses arising from obesity are an enormous drain on healthcare budgets, and unlike smokers who contribute to their future medical expenses through tax, the obese contribute nothing.
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what will the states think of next they are off there heads! if it was left to me i would sack the lot of them and have a couple of members with proper qualifications, the island finances are in a mess and i blame the states old and new.as a local i am considering leaving this island which was a nice place to live but now a rip off.
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Why does the government think it is their responsibility to wrap people up in cotton wool? We should be allowed to make an educated choice and it should the governments duty to educate people, they do a pretty poor job of doing that as far as i am concerned.
It is a lazy option to just ban things or tax them. It impinges on the liberties of the guernsey community. A community which is special and has little querks which make it distinctive. There are other ways and these ways should be explored.
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If islanders had any sense they wouldn’t buy any food at all from the ‘ fat full’ outlets, consequently there would be no need to bring in a new added tax to those unhealthy, obesity causing, foods. Islanders who value their bodies, their good health and their longevity would instead be eating ONLY veggies, fruit’s, beans, grains, nuts and seeds, turning themselves into the healthiest people on earth and at the same time automatically putting the businesses who sell unhealthy foods out of business. So who’s going to be the first to open up a successful ‘HEALTHY FOOD ONLY’ outlet?
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ps: The States of Guernsey are correct in wanting to put an extra tax on ill-health causing foods. Smart move all round in fact!
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expat 80 has a good point, but please please please do not encourage people to turn vegetarian. I have never met a healthy one yet. We are carnivores and need meat. Oh, and the reason no one has opened a veggie fast food outlet is quite simple. They would go bust in a month! Vegetarians are a very small minority, and quite frankly could all do with a good healthy roast dinner. Try it.
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Jonny, what else would you suggest the Government do?
Have you heard of 5-a-day? And seen the ‘fit4life’ adverts all over the media? Are you aware that obesity is a killer?
The public has been educated.
And we’re still getting fatter.
What else is the Government to do?
No-one is banning anything. But paying an extra 5p little bit more might make you think twice about that third Mars bar eh? And if it doesn’t the revenue can pay for your medical care in a few years.
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I really shouldn’t be drawn by Geoff but I will. Firstly I think he means we are omnivores rather than carnivores. Secondly I agree with him that people shouldn’t be “encouraged to be vegeterians”. There is nothing worse than an evangelical vegeterian. However anti-vegeterian meat eaters like himself are a close second.
Vegeterians are a minority but not a tiny minority. At about 1.5 billion they make up about a quarter of the world’s population. Nor do they tend to be less healthy.
As for any vegeterian fast food outlet going bust within a month – well I was the Saturday boy at a vegeterian takeaway for seven years and there were often queues out of the door.
Vegeterian food can be not only healthy but very tasty, although I do accept that that is often not the case in local restaraunts.
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re: ‘Geoff’
Red meat is totally unnecessary for maintaining a healthy body…but in my previous post I did overlook including fish (mostly I eat wild salmon as I live in British Columbia, Canada)in my list of foods for a healthy body. Also, once a week I eat chicken or turkey, but small quantities only.
For bread, I eat Pita bread, not as tasty as regular wholewheat bread but nevertheless fat-free, and being fat-free is the name of the game.
Re: your post, I challenge you, or anyone who is overweight to eat only veggies, fruits, beans (for protein), grains, nuts,seeds, some fish, and a weekly small quantity of chicken or turkey for two weeks or more and see what happens. I guarantee you’ll lose the flab.
And check the labels on the food you buy. Your food should have no more than 2% (or less) fat included. And don’t forget that daily ocean-front walk.
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ps: Guernseys own mackeral is also one of the most healthy and nutriciously healthy fish meats on earth.
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Mackerel, is also one of the most oily fish in the sea; It Being a cold water fish (Northern Breeding grounds and such)
But admittedly a delicious meal, but frying it is wrong; it is better grilled, it cooks it self in it’s own oils: try it.
Third way down in the oven with the Grill part on, 5 minutes each side or till nicely brown.
(I speak of Electric ovens)
Not trying to put you off ex Pat80. but I hardly fry at all these days.
I use a lot of salmon and the fillets are delicious as I grill them. Plenty chips , but once again done in the oven: There is no end to grilling of food, and tasty it is.
Of course it’s the choice of all to do as they wish; I wouldn’t try to influence.
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Peter Roffey
“There is nothing worse than an evangelical vegeterian. ”
Why? Eating meat is the number 1 top cause for climate change drivers. The combination of rapid virgin deforestation with vast agro-factory emissions is definitely something to be evangelical about.
If anything there should be more evangelism. Laid on thick. To make the established thinking squirm.
Opinions like geoff’s are 50 years out of date.
As was your comment that gives weight to the ignorant. Yeah, idiots can be bored, but is there a more pressing issue for mankind?
Oh yeah people don’t believe that stuff in Guernsey because we’re so special.
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Student Bob – I get your point about McD’s however I don’t think you can compare them with, let’s say, the Candy Shop on the Bridge. McDonald’s are a huge multinational corporation that can swallow the extra tax – the Candy Shop isn’t.
Geoff – I am absolutely not a vegetarian (and no amount of veggie-evangelism will change that) however I have seen healthy vegetarians, as well as healthy omnivores!
I agree with Mrs Brouard – the key is a balanced diet with enough exercise. The problem on Guernsey is that many of us live sedentary lifestyles, either in offices or in front of the TV/computer. Compare that to my grandparents generation…they all ate lard and red meat yet many of them are still alive today and in their 90s. Why? I believe it’s because they exercised more and didn’t spend most of their lives in the office or in front of the box.
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Calm down Arnald. I actualy agree that there are very many good reasons for being a vegeterian – inculding feeding the world’s population is a more efficient and less environmentaly destructive way. That is one reason why I have been a vegeterian since I was a schoolboy.
My objection is over becoming all “preachy” about it. I think I probably was just that when I was a teenager and I cringe to think about that now. Apart from anything else my experience is that such behavior is not only annoying but profoundly counter-productive. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to see other people giving up meat eating but simply that it is a decision for them to take and they don’t need others coming over all sancimonious.
As a passionate [but flawed] environmentalist I think some in the green movement also sometimes loose support rather than gain it because of excessive use of a high moral tone.
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Re Expat 80. Point taken. I am slightly over weight, so I might just take on your challenge and see if it works, but please do not expect me to stop eating T-Bone steaks. Cant imagine life without them, sorry. lol
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Arnald. You say, Meat eating is the number one cause for climate change drivers. What a load of codswallop!
A 10 minute eruption from an volcano causes more damage to the ozone layer than humanity can do in 10 years. Maybe you should start thinking 50 years behind the times like you acuse me of, and at least you would be more in touch. Must go my lentil bake is burning!
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Student Bob,
Personally I think there is enough tax applied to our consumables as it is. The money from that should be efficiently managed which it is not – but that’s another debate.
I also do not think that putting 5 pence on anything will deter anyone.
Education should start in the schools and at doctor’s surgery, it should be easier to address weight issues by persisting with government sponsored (or private sponsored) groups/clubs/events. These can help in more ways than one. The schemes you are talking about are too easy to ignore. Goverment should be more active.
I have a real issue with any government who just recommends putting another tax on it so that money can go into mis-managed coffers. I also do not believe that government should be the last line to blame. That should be within the individual. This attitude is far too common these days, too easy and to the detriment of society.
Finally my reference to banning has stemmed from the report and with reference to scooters and 14 year olds. Should have saved that for another article.
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Arnald – my livestock don’t cause deforestation. They taste nice too.
Fish, whilst “healthy”, are not the protein way forward – because the way its going there won’t be any left soon.
What really hacks me off is the “one size fits all” to weight and health. If your BMI is blah plus X your going to die a hideous death. Er, not necessarily.
There are so many other factors; predisposition to health issues such as heart disease, various cancers, mental well being etc.
Yes of course “lifestyle” is a major factor but it should be viewed with other the health factors. And being under weight is not good either.
A family known to me (parents are militant veggies)tried to bring their child up without meat products of any kind (including dairy), the child became ill and wasn’t developing as well as anticipated. Their doctor gave them a major talking to and told them the child needed meat. He’s now much healthier but he is still “small” for his age – one wonders what long term health problems might have been caused?
As an act of rebellion I shall frequent an oriental establishment this evening and wash it all down with a fine Chianti content in the knowledge that I’ve enjoyed this treat more than I would have done a tofu fritter.
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Paul Le P – If the tax isn’t passed onto the consumer then the point of this proposal is wasted!!! Besides, I don’t think the Candy Shop has anything to worry about. An extra, say, 10% or 5p on a Mars Bar isn’t going to stop anyone. But when you start buying those multi ‘family’ packs then that 10% is going to add up. That’s the target, that’s when people will, hopefully, start to think whether they really need 48 bags of crisps every week.
Jonny – like I said in a different thread, education is already in the schools and GP surgeries. Did you have home economics at school? Healthy eating is on the national curriculum from Key Stage 1 (5-6yr olds) onwards. Doctors are encouraged to discuss weight – tactfully – and brochures on obesity and related diseases like CHD and whatnot litter GP waiting rooms. Evidently, none of this is working!!
Seriously. What else do you want?!
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geoff
You didn’t mean the ozone layer did you?
Volcanoes are natural, not much we can do about that, they are expected phenomena. Don’t you think that climate scientists know a teency bit more than us rock no-ones.
The meat industry is man made. And bad.
Peter Roffey
It is morally superior to do something positive than it is to detract. People put off by moralising tend to be those with personal conflicts of interest, guilts.
So car drivers tend to pooh-pooh stuff about oil or pollution, meat eaters about agribiz, non drug users about the status quo, and recently i noticed, prostitutes about trafficking.
Of course there are areas where one persons moral standpoint is not universally acknowledged, and needs debating, but there are some accepted truths that we just don’t live by anymore.
Being Co-op pres., don’t you feel a bit guilty that the Bridge is dying since Leale’s yard was taken out of the equation?
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Dear Arnald,
I’m not sure that this conversation is going anywhere. We both see the positive reasons for vegeterianism, I also agree that matters of moment should be robustly debated, I was simply warning about getting too sancimonious. If you dissent from that view then we will have to agree to differ on that narrow point.
I’m not sure I understand your last point – or what it has to do with taxing food. In what way has Leale’s Yard been “taken out of the equation”? The States simply decided it should be redeveloped as new residential and retail facilities. We are simply carrying this forward together with our development partners. What is there to be guilty about?
However if you want to take this forward I think it should be outside this thread as it has nothing to do with the subject matter. Feel free to call me if you like.
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Peter Roffey
Much appreciated, thanks.
I just don’t like the fact that there is good usable land for the local economy that is locked in and unusable. I doubt it’s your fault. But hey, that’s my style.
As is: I was actually reacting to your zero ten piece in the print.
Apologies.
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Eric: think you may be losing it. You eluded that I fry my food yet I never mentioned frying my food in any of my posts, in fact I never fry my food and yes, mackeral is amongst the most oily fish in the world, consequently that’s why mackeral is so good for you, just don’t over-do it, i.e. everything in moderation.
Mostly I bake my salmon by the way,sprinkled with a little fresh lemon juice. Baking your fish is the healthiest way to go, grilled is ok too, but baking is best. And instead of using butter or margarine on my pita bread I spread on a few drops of virgin olive oil.
Geoff: clearly you have livestock and I hate to hurt your feelings or your wallet but red blood meat (even an expensive T-bone)is the last thing you should be eating. Replace it with wild salmon, ( wild, not farmed) you’ll thank yourself for it.
And now…oops….I’m going to enter a minefield by suggesting ( or even stating emphatically ) that for the populations good health all fish and chip shops that continue to sell their fish and their chips after having DEEP FRIED them should be closed down or at the very least made to bake or grill – repeat, bake or grill – their fish and chips for re-sale.
Yes, and because I did not know any better I admit that in my younger days I ate deep fried fish and chips by the barrow-load, wrapped in newspaper and sprinkled with salt and vinegar. Now I would not touch them with a barge pole. ( Salt -or sodium – is another ‘food’ item that no one should be putting inside their bodies, especially as their is already plenty of natural ‘salt’ in many foods…read the labels on jars and cans)
And again, don’t forget that daily hour ( or two)of brisk walking at the ocean-front… chest out, long strides, swing those arms, deep breathe…in through the nose out through the mouth….and to rid your body of bad gases break wind as often as you can, preferably with a head wind blowing.
Happy trails.
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Student Bob – I probably didn’t word my first point too well. I’m aware that taxes would have to be passed on to the consumer; what I meant was that large organisations like McDonalds could swallow any loss of business whereas a small retailer (e.g. the Candy Shop) would find that more difficult. I accept your point about the quantity of goods though.
In the case of the Candy Shop, given the running costs for a retail outlet on Guernsey it amazes me that a little place like that can actually make money at all!
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expat80 – dear me.
What I’m posting here is a generalisation and not an affront to you.
What you have said regarding fish is one of the most narrow minded and selfish things I keep hearing bandied about by the health Gestapo. Who are also, generally, those on the climate change wagon.
Your wild salmon, presumably from Canada or Alaska, is an unsustainable fishery. Experts are warning that current pressure on these stocks could decimate the breeding populations within 20 years. And remember salmon have only one chance to reproduce. The Canadians are painfully aware of this as they don’t want another “Grand Banks” on their hands.
I also hope you realise the energy that is used to get your healthy meal to you and the CO2 that is discharged as a result.
Does your salmon still taste good?
Trust me on this the first food crisis to hit the planet and humans will be the total collapse of the worlds fisheries. Which will having devestating consequences not only on fishing communities but whole countries. Wordwide.
Eating fish might be good for you now but it is the hammer that is hitting the first nail in the coffin of the Earth and humanity.
T-bone anyone?
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expat80 – I’m not sure about most of your recommendations but I absolutely love the last one about breaking wind….not sure my wife will appreciate it though!! :-)
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GILTHEAD. No worries, no offense taken, open debate is healthy, all are entitled to their opinions and to their beliefs. Sad though that you would term anyone and everyone interested in following a healthy fat-free diet – and also believing in climate change, ‘Gestapo’!?
And regarding fish stocks, perhaps you have been busy and haven’t kept up to date but fish have made a big comeback and will continue to do so. In fact, on the west coast of Canada’s Vancouver Island fishermen are having one of the biggest and best catches ever, the ocean is alive with fish and the salmon are huge.
Yes, (thank you for asking) last night for supper my red salmon (liberally sprinkled with lemon and herbs)plus lots of veggies, beans, wild rice, pita bread and a 4oz glass of super full-bodied and robust Tuscan red…I prefer red to white…(fermented with skins, seeds, some leaf and stems)followed by a bowl of blueberries with yohgurt was indeed splendid.
So enjoy your T-bone but please ensure you cook it to a crisp. ‘Rare’ ( you know…when the blood is still dripping out) is even less healthy for you than any other meat.
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Paul Le Page. All you have to do is ensure your wife is walking ahead of you -, hey, it’s the gentlemany thing to do…
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Arnald and Peter Roffrey. I agree with most of what you have said.
I am still a meat eater, but i now put more fruit and vegetables( Guernsey produce of course) in my meals and less meat now. Some of my family are vegetarians, and have influenced me in changing my ways. They are very healthy and if put in a line up, you would not tell them from the average omnivore. There is nothing better than soup made entirely of Guernsey vegetables.
I do not want to sound evangelist, but l do not care, if you think l am, eating Guernsey is better for you.
It is more environmentally friendly, and also fruit and vegetables after 3days lose 30% and after 10days 60% of their food value.
Here are some facts.
1.Worldwide, Cows and sheep generate 37% of methane gas.
2.1 cow produces 500litres of methane per day.
That is without eating bean-jar.
3.Livestock responsible for 65% of words nitrous oxide emissions, mainly via manure.
4.A kilo of beef is produced from 13,000 litres to 100,000 litres, depending on breed.
5.A traditional diet needs 2.5 time as much land as a vegetarian. Looks like the population of Guernsey would be smaller, if we took Peter Roffreys advice.
As i said before, some of my family are vegetarians and some of the dishes now are very good, as good as meat ones.
I personally am slowly being educated, but as a stubborn donkey, will still eat meat in smaller amounts.
I also believe, that we should eat seasonally and restaurants should, use Guernsey produce, rather than use imported.
I will also mention the Co.Op. that is doing a tremendous job of sourcing and buying local. They have set the lead, which some of the others have still not followed.( with the exception of Forest Stores.)
Good on you Co.Op.
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I do not care what you lot eat, but to tax food to try and stop obesity is wrong. The word that nobody has used is “moderation”. If you keep your food in a balance, say over a week, combined with healthy & not so healthy (this as a treat), then you should not get so fat. The problem arises that the take-aways are cheap, and this is all some people can afford. So if you are going to put 5p on fatty foods, why not take 5p of healthy food as well.
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“The problem arises that the take-aways are cheap, and this is all some people can afford”
I’ve never worked that one out and I’ve spent decades eating takeaways through laziness. It’s far cheaper to buy a whole bunch of veg and stuff, and a bit of meat if you have to, and stretch it out with some staples. Not the metal ones. They stick in your teeth.
The problem arises when people forget how to invest a bit of time for their well being and not doing things because they are ‘boring’.
I don’t practice what I preach on food because I only eat rainbows, but there you are. Have to be consistent.
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expat80 – the T-bone was irony. I don’t like steak!
Seriously though google “the end of the line” and be very afraid.
I’m with you on the Tuscan red! I assume Chianti – if so I’d recommend Santedame Riserva or anything from Casa Emma – quite splendid.
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Experience (and a good deal of high quality psychological research) tells us that initiatives that rely on educating people and exhorting them to better behaviour have relatively little impact, unless they are backed up by other measures.
Junk food is cheap, tasty, and easily available. It is marketed aggressively. So just telling people to eat less of it won’t work. If we really want a change, we need to ban it, tax it very heavily, or make it very hard to get hold of.
Think that’s ever going to happen?
Similarly, telling people to exercise more has little effect. We’ve had campaigns on exercise as well as healthy eating for years, and as a population we pretty much ignore this.
If we want to increase the amount of exercise done, we would actually need to remove the disincentives. Forget making gym membership cheap, or building a couple of tennis courts, or telling GPs to prescribe people fitness classes. If you want to dramatically increase the amount of physical exercise we do as a population you need to change the way we live our lives, and the physical environmnent around us.
Would you willingly walk into work, along a road with no pavement, returning in the dark, when you have a car filled up with cheap petrol and free parking? I thought not.
But people who live in London regularly walk a great deal. Why? Because they have good pavements and lighting, and because it is almost impossible to park anywhere, and prohibitively expensive to drive.
Sadly the chances of us deciding to alter our physical environment to make walking (or even cycling) more attractive than driving are, I think, pretty low. Because as individuals we all want to “keep our freedoms”, and no politican would put forward anything so unpopular.
So it may be that we just have to resign ourselves to the solution proposed by one of our surgeons: a massive increase in the number of stomach stapling operations.
Depressing, eh?
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Western cattle produce on average 120kg of methane emissions per year, non western cattle 60kg, sheep 8kg and pigs 1.5kg – humans produce approx 0.12kg – this is ozone damaging methane. So whoever says that eating meat is not good for the planet, how can you justify that? I enjoyed a nice fillet steak last night, and felt like I was doing my bit for climate change. Now I know you will argue that they keep breeding animals so that we can eat them – but if we dont eat them and let them live then they will just let the animals live and fart great big holes in the ozone – so come on people- its the tennerfest-find a nice resteraunt with Steak and Bearnaise sauce on the menu and have a nice bit of nosh for your dinner tonight!
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Cheers Gilthead, bon appetit!
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Taxing food is a ridiculous response to obesity.
The states should look at providing better opportunities to exercise, by better I mean more choice, more affordable and more reason to be away from the television/computer for adults and children alike.
I live in a socially deprived area of the island and there is a definite need for education of the adults and children around here. After school everyday there is a long queue of children at the shop buying their daily sweets, since it is most likely that the parents do not earn the money that they give to their children then a tax on sweets will not deter them. Better to give those deprived children other pursuits to occupy them and keep them off the streets.
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D_T
Stuffing kids faces full of chocolate is not the preserve of ‘deprived’ children. Open any kitchen cupboard in Guernsey – rich or poor.
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pete roffey
if veggie takeaways are soooo successful why don’t you set one up? After all you’ve got seven years experience in a veggie takeaway
you could use this venture to make a few bob, pay some tax and social insurance and then educate the meat eating masses about the benefits of a veggie diet at the same time.
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PS D_T
I’m not advocating taxation of food. Just clearing your point up.
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D-T. Excellent comment and advice, your suggestions are spot on. Sport for all is the way to go. Sport for all will create an increasingly fit and healthy society including, where needed, an improvement in childrens character. But it must be FREE and not simply ‘affordable’only to the successful or the wealthy but to one and all. Indeed, many family’s today cannot afford the high overall cost of placing their children in a sports/exercise program which, when you think about it, is apalling and disgusting. Family’s should – and must, as a single group – demand of the States increased ample facilities for free sport/exercise facilities and related equipment for their children. And family’s should continue to press and, yes, harrass until that goal is achieved. Meanwhile, ban all food from entering the island that is not relatively fat-free and sugar free. That, should help a little…..!
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Food should not be taxed, it is a basic human right for a human being to feed themselves and their family. Perhaps the states should do something to LOWER the cost of healthy foods before they introduce yet another stealth tax congured up from some goodytooshoe states member trying to make a name for themselves in our already costly nannystate.
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@ Neil – I didn’t say that only deprived children eat sweets I was just making an observation of the area in which I live.
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