Ban on legal highs hailed a success
Tuesday 8th December 2009, 1:00PM GMT.
BANNING the importation of legal highs for commercial or private use has been hailed a success by Drug Concern.
The charity said the number of people seeking its help had shrunk in the last month since the ban on bringing substances such as Spice into the island for personal use had come into effect.
In April, Customs banned the importation of legal highs and followed that up with a ban on four particular types for personal use.
‘Since the ban came into action, Drug Concern has seen a significant reduction [more than 50%] of new contacts relating to emerging drugs of concern,’ said manager Tracey Rear.
‘I do believe the number of people using emerging drugs of concern has reduced since the ban, primarily due to the lack of availability of the substances compared to pre-ban.’
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Whilst this story is fairly obvious, it’d be interesting to have some context. Have alcohol-related incidents increased?? Surely there must be some stats on arrests for violent or disorderly behaviour for comparison?
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This article is very misleading. The street price of Charge/Toot/F1 has increased by about 100% from the old on-line price, and the quality has dropped (ie someone is cutting the product with un-known substances) which endangers the health of users.
Brilliant…….look out for more crime as heavy users are forced to pay more to feed their habit, and also look out for more health problems from ingesting the added “extras”….
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Where are you dean?
Nat
at least a lot of the kids wont be able to afford it with their pocket money?
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Oh well, I think it is fair to say at this point that responsible ‘legal high’ users can blame the idiots for the ban, not the authorities. Having considered everything for the past few weeks I feel that this ban was inevitable, considering many locals naive approach to drugs.
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BCB, when it was sold in shops over here it was about £30 a gramme…do kids get that much pocket money these days????
And if they do, they can easily club together to buy a gramme off a dealer. Plus now they are being introduced to the criminal fraternity who are importing this drug illegally, whereas before they just went into a shop. Again, another great result……
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Dean, your comment is very true. But please note the term is now “emerging drugs of concern”! How very PC!
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Why are people taking this stuff? i dont get it…cant they suck a polo or something ; ]
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Nat
whereas before they just went into a shop. Again, another great result……
I heard that they (kids) were getting served with these drugs too :)
Maybe that was part of the problem then? the greed of selling to anyone? perhaps it was the outlets that brought down the legality of legal highs,,, well done, great result.
£30 a gram? my god i wonder how much it cost to make that stuff? 50p? a £1.00 at most i think.
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Dean,
Many of the locals do have a naive approach to drugs but given the well publicised dangers involved in their use it could be argued that the ‘responsible’ legal high users are somewhat naive as well.
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Drug concern are talking rubbish legal highs are still readily available. All that has been done by making it illegal is to push the price up,and pushed the trading underground.
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Hiiiiiii daaaaaaaarhhhllllllings,
I’m feeling a bit wonky this morning!
Still the after effects of Psilocybe Semilanceata are much nicer than a Champagne hangover – more colourful too……..
Anyway, so here’s a couple of quotes from an online vendor specialising in ‘legal highs’ / emerging drugs of concern:-
“Due to a recent legislation change this Product will not be available in the UK after the 16th of December, please see front page for more info – Get them While you can!
This will be re-formulated to be legal again!”
“We are working on some great alternatives to these, which will be available next year…keep on the lookout!”
And when that chemical is banned they’ll move onto the next………………….
and so on…………
forever…………..
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@kevin
I don’t agree, if as you say the dangers are ‘well publicised’ then you cannot accuse people of nativity, only ignorance.
When I say ‘responsible’ I mean people who have not allowed themselves to become dependent, much the same as responsible drinkers, gamblers and the like.
And to the people buying these things ‘on the street’, come on guys, give it up, party’s over!
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BCB,
You are right, the behaviour of the shops selling legal highs to under 18′s was terrible, and possibly sped up the banning of the substances.
But in my view, it’s better to have people buying substances from controlled outlets, rather than your old fashioned drug dealer, who can easily offer fentanyl or smack or anything else. At least the party powders are not physically addictive.
As for the pricing, you can buy a g of mephedrone on-line for £10. Street price in Guernsey is now £60, and that is heavily cut stuff……
Kevin, there is no doubt some ignorance shown by the responsible users with regard to the effects of the party powders, but so what? We live in a free society, so surely we should be able to put into our bodies what we want to? We know that smoking cigarettes is a fast-track to cancer, but there’s still plenty of smokers out there, and the Governments of this world aren’t banning tobacco?
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@ Dean, the powders are still cheaper than coke, with no ridiculous prison sentence hanging over you for possession of a small amount. Plus there’s not been any large amounts of MDMA in the island for many years, so the powders are still are good alternative for a great many people.
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Well binge drinking is back people so far last month we have had a death( outside a pub) fights in town and so on i dont want to go into town cause i feel quite scared of the idots who think thay are cleaver getting so drunk and cause upset to meny people, oh i forgot also a smashed window!!! its a farse there are children in the high school with spice buying it for £40 pound for 3 grams and us the adults who take it carefully and not abusing it cant get it ( i think there is something amiss there)
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Quite right JOBY, only a few weeks after the ban has been put in place and look how much trouble there’s been.
And this is only the beginning. When legal highs were introduced, slowly but surely most of the dirtier, deadlier, class A drugs disappeared and alcohol related crimes dropped. Now what do you think will happen if you take them away? Surprise surprise harder illegal drugs will be brought in and its already happening. More fights, more alcohol related deaths and more hospital admittances, more burglaries, more criminal damage and assault charges. When is anyone going to listen?!
PROHIBITATION DOESN’T WORK!!
Admittedly we don’t know what is in Legal Highs half the time, so why not stop such harsh punishments on possession on marijuana? A drug that is a million times less damaging to your body that alcohol or tobacco.
And on top of all these reason that are just common sense, like Nat says ‘We live in a free society, so surely we should be able to put into our bodies what we want to?’.
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I’m a staunch defender of the right to choose what substances we ingest, however i’m not sure I agree with Joby and Dr…I think there was plenty of booze related trouble in town when you could buy legal highs over the counter, and i really don’t see a link.
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Nat
I dont think they were implying a link per se, just the messed up morals in our society that we have story in the press on how fantastic the legal high ban has been, because its stopped a few people phoning up complaining of addiction…… Whilst in other news a bloke dies outside a pub and yet still town was full of bingedrinkers on Friday night and no-one in the “please think of the children” brigade has thought outside of their moral indignation about legal highs to consider that a drug that they take may be worse for you.
Gah, rant over, sorry.
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Hahaha, The Man, that’s not a rant!
And I fully agree with your point!
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The Man – exactly, completely agree and nicely put.
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Dr Feel Good:
You state: “When legal highs were introduced, slowly but surely most of the dirtier, deadlier, class A drugs disappeared and alcohol related crimes dropped”
Where do you get your statistics from?! There is no evidence whatsoever that when legal highs were introduced crime dropped.
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Truth Man – and why do you think there is no evidence?
Do you really believe that the States would publish statistics proving their wrong? Or proving that their making the wrong decision?
I have my information, not statistics (I didn’t give data or figures) from inside sources that I’m afraid I cannot share with you.
Not everything comes down to statistics, they are usually inaccurate anyway and sometimes you just need to open your eyes and not believe everything the Politian’s tell you.
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Dr Feel Good:
I think there is no evidence, because even the best statistical manipulation could not produce a figure that suggests crime went down when legal highs were readily available.
I too have ‘sources’ – many of them actually, and am personally involved in the type of work that would give me insight into the true story, and let me tell you, you are way, way off.
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I tend to agree but of the opinion that customs need drug smugglers to pay there wages. Guernsey
does have a massive drug dependcy population,
higher than main land europe fine money should be used to construct youth project with zero cost to the children internet cafes ect free use of internet.remember for every rich child, there are 100 poor children this is no joke
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Junkies uses legal highs in seringes ect, More deadly than crack or crystal meths people eventually go nuts on the stuff
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i think that legal highs are dirty on the whole
if u here whats in them.”not for human consumption” to get them out of medical testing
i presume.but there would be no need for “legal highs”
if cannabis was decriminalised and regulated properly,through a qualified doctor.
cannabis is one of the safest medicine/recreational drugs known to man.
prohibition is makeing NORMAL LAW ABIDNG PEOPLE CRIMINALS!!AND ITS NOT ON!!
il put what i want through my body as im an adult with a mind of my own who can see the evidence make my mind up for myself.
id rather have a group of stoners walking down the shops to get some king skins and some munchies.then a group of anti social drunks wanting to give u a kick in for looking at them!! the only thing a stoners going to attack is your fridge!
at the end of the day there are recreationl users and there are abusers.of all drugs “illegal and legal”
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Fantastic news with the ban. Its a pity Drug Concerns acted so pathetically slow with their support. Still, its al labout pleasing their masters not dealing with the drug culture we have in the islnd. Next step is get the dealers of all illigal drugs which are causing nothing but misery for both the user and their family. What we do need is a rehab centre not just some out of date centre with dire staff.
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@Pete Burtensahw
drug culture?so are we going to ban alchol
and tobacco then?as there drugs. 2 of the biggest killers,which kill more people 10fold each year than all “illegal” drugs put togother, and in social problems alchol is the number 1 cause.
what do u read in the paper everyday anti social
drunks fighting in the street,drink drive urinateing in the street and so on.
causeing misery to familys and the user?
tell that to all the people who are suffering
through drunken attacks in town.
i n plenty of people who u put a drink in them and they turn nasty.but when they use cannabis
there lovely people and there partners would vouch for that.
i think people like u Mr Burtensahw want to get your facts straight.and stop discriminating
people on drugs that are equal or less harmful.
what i put through my body has nothing to do with u or anyone else.
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Nice to see John at the Plaza has taken a responsible stance on legal highs and by cutting back on alcohol sales, shunning cheap drink promo’s and cutting back on measures, shame the town nightclubs dont follow his lead,i am sure many, have had more than they should before leaving Foolies and Barbados
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Hey Pete
Having a glass of wine tonight??
If so, spare a thought for Gary Allen.
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@ Pete Burtensahw
Next step is get the dealers of all illigal drugs
the problem is there u take one off the street there are ten ready to replace them due to the vast profits in a market of ,un-regulated prices and no quality control.
which means they can charge u what they like for a substance that could have anything in it.
this is a world wide billion pound industry
in the hands of criminal gangs.
by decriminalising and haveing goverments regulate and give proper education on drugs
u would wipe out the criminal gangs over night.
along with freeing up are prisons with thousands of no violent offenders for the use of equally harmful drugs!
the goverments would have full control of the drugs.which is better than some dealer on the street who your trying to by some cannabis fomand he trys to sell u herion!!
now us well educated people on drugs and there harms no that cannabis is a safe drug,yet herion is a highly addictive substance that kills.
but what if its some kid on the street?
at the end of the day id discourage all young people away from any mind altering drugs regard of the status “illegal” or “legal”
as this is the time in your life when your minds are devolping.get good grades and a job/ career behind u and set yourself up for a good life. the mind altering substance will always be there.
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What a surprise, if only they had sked Pete Burtenshaw to sort out the islands drug problems, we would all be living in utopia.
If these idiot staff were ditched, how would the great Pete Burtenshaw, Sort out the islands drug culture?
No capital punisment allowed.
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I have no problem with any “responsible” adult (lets not argue about the definition of “responsible”) choosing what to take/drink/smoke.
But the absolute fact is that when too much is taken/drunk/smoked, there is a finacial cost to the Guernsey community – policing the drunks in town/domestic violence, damage caused while on drugs.
This has been a problem in Guernsey for a long time and simply banning legal highs simply classifies them with the other drugs available on the island.
Now the legal high users are exposed to dealers who have more addictive and more expensive drugs to offer, rather than the safety of a regulared shop retailer….
I wonder if the Guernsey authorities will ever be able to make a good decision!!
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some fair points there aidy.
when are this lot going to make a good decision?
im hopeing for world peace and a poverty
free world.
but it wont happen,just like this lot wont take
a sensible stance on drugs and set up a drug policy by the “harms caused”.
The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 c.38 (“the Act”) is being administered in an arbitrary and discriminatory manner based on historical and cultural factors that lack a consistent and objective basis contrary to Article 14 of the Human Rights Act 1998 and within the ambit of other convention rights
If u read the press the main drug which causes the biggest problem to society is booze!!
how many drink drives do u see in the press each week.with each person behind the wheel
who has the potiential to KILL or seriously
hurt.first time offence 3years of the road
and £600 fine
then your get someone get there door kicked in for smokeing a bit of cannabis and there thrown in prison!
but still booze is avalible 7days a week
its more harmful than cannabis.its damage
on society is clear for all to see “those of u who choose not to see it “are probably the peoploe who blame it all on “illegal” drugs.
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What are you talking about
Door kicked in and thrown in prison for smoking a bit of pot? If you answer it then it wouldn`t get kicked in would it?
It`s usally a fine and thats it, unless it`s a large amount or your a dealer.
And as for the drink driving and killing people(thats why its illegal) that could be said of driving while high on drugs so whats your point? Actually in some countries like the far east this does happen a lot where drugs are cheap. Defend your argument for your right to smoke pot by all means, also if all the pro legal high users were so concerned of the ban why didn`t they do somthing to help make sure it was regulated and help stop the shop keepers from selling it to anyone who walked through the door? Kids dealing in school with this stuff because of this irresponsible attitude went a long way to bringing about the ban imo. And i agree that drink is a big problem so what do you suggest we do about it ?
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well isnt that discriminatory in its self
haveing to go to court for useing a substance
safer than alchol?
the drink drive example was that in its self how booze is suched a “misused substance”
i do not agree with anyone driveing whilst high on any substance!i have respect for my life and everyone elses.
in fact why have a “your allowed x amount of
units”,and have zero tolarance “no drink if your driveing”then there can be no quarms on weather u only had 1honest.
i dont no politics is not my thing at all.
i just would like to live in a world
of peace and “equality”
on to legal highs ive tried the legal smoke
for about a month i found them to have no health benefits and if anything to actualy
cause pain in my lower back.
i have used cannabis to cope with back pain,insomnia it has brillant medical value
with out the nasty side affects which u get from prescription drugs.and its no0t addictive.
legal highs in my view were to easily available over the net,shops etc.
young people shouldnt be useing any mind altering substances in vast quantites
omp.i think its terrible to think that this is/was going on in schools!its no differnt to when i was at school it was cider for some kids then!
u have users and abusers thats all i can say.
there are people who can drink responsibly
and there are people who can use less harmful drugs responsibly ,then u have some people who just “misuse”.
which has an impact on everyone.
legal highs should be banned i agree as there is no scientific on them.
pot is a safe drug it should be down graded to class c and regulated like prescription drugs.
for those who wish to use it.
the booze problem dont no how u could sort that one out. as prohabition in the 1930s didnt work america did it. moonshine was made and criminals ran it like al capone,the strength of the booze got stronger. and people got hurt because of the vast profits to be made because of “prohabition”
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Well done all you prohibitionists,
You have managed to get your kids off a relatively harmless drug and your now pushing the kids on to Heroin and other harder drugs, just look at any ‘shop-watch’, pub-watch poster or prison cell and over 2/3 are on Heroin, this time last year they were probably smoking a bit of pot but now it seems all you want to do is keep up this lie, and it is a lie, that soft drugs like Cannabis is bad for you and can cause Mental illness’s.
I suggest you use your PC’s a bit more and look up the info for yourselves, instead of listening and reading everything you hear/read in the papers or Frank or our very own Drug Concern. It’s not their fault either, they are just reading info supplied by the Government which are soo outdated and wrong it almost funny if it wasn’t for the fact that people are actually dieing now because of their lies.
Nearly all of the S.American countries are/have legalised ALL drugs in small amounts for personal use, including heroin, cocaine, speed and lsd.
Over a quarter of the USA have legalised Cannabis for Medicinal use and some are even going as far as totally legalising cannabis, California has had legal medicinal cannabis now for the last 10 years, Portugal has legalised all drugs for personal use and has for the last 10 years…..
over 15 countries in Europe are considering following, some have.
There been NO evidence of Mental or Psychotic episodes directly linked to cannabis, in fact since the UK’s gov asked the ACMD, their own drugs experts, for advice 3 times in 5 years, the answer was always the same
‘in over 10 years study if gov figures are to be believed that cannabis consumption has risen gradually each year, there has there been NO rise in mental/psychotic cases, in fact they have dropped. It is evident that the majority of cannabis users do not develop
psychotic illnesses. Those who do so must have one or more
predisposing factors.’
so if you/family have a history of mental illnes then maybe cannabis is not for you.
i can’t take some prescription drugs from my doctor, should we ban this as well.
More people have died from a peanut allergy during me writing this than have ever died by cannabis, you would have to ingest 15lbs of it in one go to get a lethal enough dose to kill you, try it, bet you cant, eat a 5lb bag of uncooked spuds and it’ll kill you,
The ACMD has publicly said alcohol and fags are more dangerous but it seems you still want to believe the Gov and media stories.
wake your pc up and find out for yourselves
i bet none of you even know why Cannabis is illegal?, business, lies and racism.
i suggest you watch the film/doc ‘The business behind getting high’
if you want to control any drug then you have legalise and regulate and most importantly
educate, tell them the truth
ps, There isn’t enough evidence for the ‘legal high’s’ atm purely because the Gov has just sacked their chief adviser as they were testing it but recent European studies have reported the only illegal ingredient in Spice is a synthetic ‘cannabis spray’ which is added to natural herbs.
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How do you really know how many die because of smoking cannibis(indirectly)? There are many places where accidents occur due to drugs that will never be reported as a factor.
You say that kids are now turning to heroin because of the ban? if that is correct then i think they were on a self distruct course regardless, and who said soft drugs dont lead to harder drugs?.
Personally i dont really care if there banned or not and i like a puff now and then, but when i hear about it in the schools which was almost none existent when i was there something has to be done?.
As i have indicated before if it wasen`t for the morons selling it in the way they (most) were then maybe it would have still been legal, there attitude towards it in many cases is no better then the real drug pushers, it`s all about the ££££££.
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@ The Truth Man:
The reason for my post is two-fold;
1. To make the differentiation between Truth Man and The Truth Man (!), and
2. To tell you that your argument regarding cannabis only focusses on a part of the issue. I would like to think it is generally accepted that cannabis is not physically harmful. The reason it was re-re-classified was because of the rather late recognition by the government that ‘softer’ drug use does create an avenue, and a desire in many, to experiment with ‘harder’ drugs. This is not a good thing, and is a large part of the reason why cannabis is illegal.
Also your argument that “if you want to control any drug then you have legalise and regulate” is rather unrealistic. We don’t use this method to reduce social problems in any other offence category – for example, we don’t argue that we should allow a certain amount of regulated acquisitive crime to control theft, burglary or robbery do we?
And experience does not follow your theory either; methadone is legal when regulated and it is abused, phentanol is regulated and abused, DHC is regulated and abused, the list goes on. So quite why you think regulating cannabis would solve the problems associated with it is beyond me.
From Truth Man.
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I don’t think either of you deserve to bare the name ‘Truth Man’ as you both appear to talk a fair bit of nonsense!
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Truth Man
To suggest that cannabis is the “gateway” drug is ridiculous. How many people smoke dope prior to smoking cigarettes or drinking alcohol?
It (cannabis) may well be the first illegal drug that most people take, which will therefore mean that they associate with dealers (some of whom will also deal in harder drugs). Therefore remove the criminality and you remove the link. How many tobacco or alcohol sellers sell heroin?
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Dean and Phil – Agreed!
‘Truth Man’ you should have a read of Ben Eltons book High Society maybe that will open your mind a wee bit.
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@ Dean, Phil & Dr Feelgood:
Er no Phil it is not ridiculous at all, and your second sentence reinforces my point completely! People seek to increase their ‘high’ over time and that is why experts see a progression from ‘softer’ options to ‘harder’ options time and time again and not vice-versa. And for this reason it is also not true that if you remove the criminality you remove the link – because ultimately the minority that are prone to abusing drugs will seek to increase their affect over time. To adopt your rationale and make it a success in practice would mean making ALL drugs legal – then of course no drug abusers would be criminalised. Of course, this would be a nonsense and as a result we have to set the bar somewhere. Currently, that bar is set at the ‘cannabis level’. Also Phil, I would be interested to hear your opinion on the issues surrounding current legal prescription drugs that are abused. How does this fit with your legalise cannabis philosophy?
Dean : Your post was pointless. What is it you disagree with?
Dr Feelgood : Is the comedian Ben Elton an authority on this issue?! I find it amazing you would reference his book on such an important topic!!
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Truth man – oh golly, if you actually have a read of the book rather than approaching it with the same stubborn closed minded attitude you have with this thread, you might just learn something!
And FYI Ben Elton is not ONLY a comedian he is an author, playwright and director. But that doesn’t even matter there’s no reasoning with people like you I’m not wasting any more time reading your ridiculous comments.
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Dr Feel Good:
I haven’t forgotten that you’re the person who tried to tell us crime went down when legal highs were readily available!! I’m at the stage where I simply find your posts amusing reading, much as I might do a post by the comedian Ben Elton (oops, did I call him a comedian again?!). By the way – you’re right, he is an author, playwright and director – of comedies.
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@Truth Man
Where do you get your information from, who are these ‘experts’?
I think my previous point was pretty clear actually!
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@ Dean.
Dean! The experts are those who collate the data and construct bespoke analytical methods using scientifically proven formulae to come to proper informed conclusions, and those who work in the area in question! Not the odd user, or Daily Mail readers, or Joe Bloggs from the street who knows a boy next door who is on drugs.
And as for your previous posts, they may be clear in their own right, but I do not see how they are connected to any of my posts, and that is why I consider your remark on my post to be pointless. I am all open to debate, but you didn’t actually state an opinion on what I had said – you just said I appear to talk nonsense. What is it that I said that you consider to be nonsense, and why? Like I said, I’m well open to debate as that’s what these forums are all about, but I don’t yet know what your point is!
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@Truth Man
Thank you, but I am more than capable of using a dictionary. I refer you back to my previous post in the hope you may answer it? I’m just curious.
And please, put your handbag away. I’m sorry for attacking your forum name without having the evidence to back it up, just my opinion.
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Dean:
This is not about handbags – it’s about informed debate.
My reply to your question:
In the context of this topic, the experts are Drug Concern. In addition, the UK Home Office form an umbrella function for numerous drug action teams, and the drug intervention programme. On a more local level, Crime and Disorder Reduction Partnerships, Youth Offending Teams, and the Probation Service see this trend in action daily, and employ the services of trained personel to assist with breaking the pattern and intervening as soon as possible. The police make enquiries with all people they arrest, and take samples from people who are in detention for trigger offences. All of these groups collate data that sees a trend toward stronger forms of drug abuse over time for numerous and varying reasons. I’m not saying everyone will slide down the slope, it is a trend, not a guarantee.
Would it help convice you to know that I am not basing my comments on internet research, but on direct involvement in the organisations I just listed (with the exception of Drug Concern)?
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@Truth Man, thank you for answering. Would you agree then, that since your career involves seeing the awful effects that drug abuse has on poeple, that you have a bias in this type of argument?
“This is not about handbags – it’s about informed debate.” Very good, I like that!
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Dean…
Erm, not exactly a bias one way or the other per say. For example, if my experience and knowledge showed me that drugs were harmless, then I would make exactly that argument.
Sadly, that is not the case and therefore I am compelled toward making the arguments I have previously stated. It’s not a bias, it is opinion based on broad experience and knowledge.
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Legal, illegal, taxable, un-taxable…..
man has felt the urge to get out of his proverbial tree on a variety of substances for centuries, for a variety of reasons and with a variety of effects, so it is highly likely that he will continue to do so, regardless of health implications, societies disapproval or what the establishment dictates.
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Truth Man, does your “experience and knowledge” extend to personal use etc, or just to dealing with the abuse of others?
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Wouldnt it be nice if the UK government finally listened to the millions of cannabis smokers in the UK, and finally got round to legalising it, in EVERY way, shape or form? THEN, we wouldnt have to associate with drug-dealers, we could grow our own and be safe in the knowledge that the product is 100% un-adulterated, and wouldnt be criminalized for such a harmless pusuit. (Hands up, everyone, who’s got a Drunk and Disorderly conviction.) Gordon Brown, get your head out of your a** and LISTEN for once….you MIGHT even win some votes.
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ps: I’ve got a peanut allergy, too…..I guess this puts me in the ULTRA-high-risk category.
pps: ‘Merry Christmas’……toke it up !!!
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