‘Marine diesel duty would lose island money’
Monday 14th December 2009, 2:29PM GMT.
Guernsey Marine Traders’ Association president David Norman is horrified that the prospect of marine diesel being dutied is back on the political agenda less than two years after the decision to keep it tax-free was endorsed. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 0761130)
BOAT owners and fuel suppliers are horrified that the prospect of marine diesel being taxed has been raised again.
The Guernsey Marine Traders’ Association said the levy would endanger local jobs and damage tourism with knock-on effects on the retail sector and the economy.
Treasury minister Charles Parkinson announced that the subject was up for consideration again in his Budget speech last week.
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Why not tax local “pleasure” boat owners but give an exemption to visiting craft and traders such as fishermen?
This would protect the trade from outside, as well as not hurting local business; whilst also ensuring local pleasure owners pay for the privelege. Let’s face it, car owners who use their vehicles for pleasure have to pay tax, why not the same for boat owners?
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If motorists have to pay tax, why not boat owners?
Boats pollute as much as cars.
Really it’s a bit of scare mongering hoping that the States will not have the audacity to apply such a tax to boating.
Will it really stop boats visiting? Petrol and diesel are more expensive in Europe and the UK, but does that stop people taking their cars away on touring holidays? I have never heard anyone say that they’re not going to take their car to France because petrol/diesel is too expensive.
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Erm, your car and motorbike taxes are all about maintaining the road infrastructure and free parking, boat owners don’t have an infrastructure to pay for (moorings are covered with mooring fees).
If we’re going to tax boat owners on the grounds of pollution, then make it fair and tax cars and motorbikes too based on emissions.
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Paul Le Page
I agree with the fisherman bit but why the visiting boats? boats that visit Guernsey would have to be a bit (lot) bigger than the little twenty footer down the pond so it would mean we sell it cheaper to the well off and punish our own?.
Boat owners already pay taxes on their fuel and mooring fees so whats the rise for? it`s just rvenue once again hitting hardest to the small boat owners who some feel should be punished for owning something of pleasure.
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Fair point, Student Bob.
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Student Bob – I thought there was an element of “polluter pays” tax as well. It’s not all for roads, free parking and the buses. Haven’t the States jumped on the global warming band wagon?
My main point is that expensive fuel does not stop motorists holidaying with their cars, so why would boat owners be different?
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Its just another stealth tax to pay for our elected leaders incompetence.
The purpose of tax on road fuel was, initially at least, to pay for the abolition of car tax. Nowt to do with an environmental levy.
And Paul le Page why on earth should fishermen be exempt? Taxi drivers aren’t.
If you want tax on “pleasure” then fine. If you gain pleasure from, for example, going to church then it should be taxed. Or walking on the cliffs. Or going to town…
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I have a certain sympathy for Student Bob and his fellow boating types here. After all, at least they are paying for the privilege of parking their craft on a huge publicly owned parking space at QE2 Marina while motorists get to park their cars on an equally large publicly owned parking space right next door at North Beach without paying a penny for that particular privilege.
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This proposal doesn’t have the subtlety to be a stealth tax. It’s a brazen attempt to wring a bit more money from public pockets without justification. I mean, do we know what this tax will finance?? Is it just landfill for that 0-10 blackhole??
That boatowners aren’t all multi-millionaire champagne swilling fat cats has been done to death on this forum in the past, I don’t personally know of any other boatowners who don’t make concessions in other areas of their lives to allow them to indulge in a small part of Guernsey’s rich maritime heritage. The risk again is that we get priced out of the water, and another little part of Guernsey’s identity lies trampled under the States foot.
Frank – my point on pollution is simple, if every car, motorbike and boat is individually emissions tested annually and then a suitable levy is imposed, then this would be equitable. The last increase in fuel tax was to pay for the bus service, not the environment!!
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Gilthead – “And Paul le Page why on earth should fishermen be exempt? Taxi drivers aren’t.”
I mentioned fishermen as many small fishermen are in economically tough times and might find it hard to cope. Your point about the comparison with taxi drivers is valid however to use it as a point of argument against mine is not – when did I say I agreed with taxing fuel for taxi drivers? I personally think an exemption for them would be fair as well – after all why should they pay a tax to subsidise their competitors in the bus service?
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Paul le P – apologies if I appeared argumentative!
However we are all in economically tough times and fishermen are already heavily subsidised. If they can’t make ends meet there are plenty of other alternatives. And taxi drivers shouldn’t be exempt either!
What is needed is a clear policy towards taxing fuel and a level playing field for all.
FYI marine petrol IS taxed but diesel is not – the tax on marine petrol is less than that for road fuel.
So no level playing field there then.
If there is a clear policy from the States that they would use a “carbon tax” to reduce carbon emmissions – then great. But I don’t want to pay tax on marine fuel which then subsidises (for example) a bus service I neither need or want. Or a loss making airline. Or a polluting incinerator.
All three examples add (oe will add) huge amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere.
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No problemo Gilthead – I don’t mind a robust exchange of ideas (an argument) by the way…. ;-)
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Gilthead
I think there is a dffrence with the fisherman.
Taxi drivers earn while they drive so more miles more money and they can increase their fares to compensate the same with builders and the like. Fisherman don`t have that luxury as their fish prices are dictated to them. also, many hours at sea will not always mean good fishing and earned money, and does often result in net losses.
If you want to see a level playing field then maybe you can suggest a way they can pass the extra cost on? the way just about any other industry can do, then i`m sure they will happily absorb the taxes.
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bcb – a good point well made.
The fishing industry does pass its costs on. Which is why fish, generally, is so expensive.
Fuel is expensive and fishing vessels are fuel inefficient. So its tough luck really. And remember that their costs can be offset against income and therefore tax.
For the record I’m totally against taxing marine fuel for non environmental reasons as per my previous post.
Its just another easy target.
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Gilthead
Sorry to tell you but they dont pass on their costs in the way you think? i worked in the industry for some years so i can tell you they will be paid the best market rates they can find but will not dictate those rates.
The point is that if the fishing is bad they cannot just ask for more for their fish, they dont control the prices. There is very little money (for most) in fishing anymore.
Go back 30 years and see if you can find the prices they were getting for crab and see what they get now, i think you will be shocked.
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I can see the pragmatic argument for not increasing the cost of marine fuel for competitive reasons. However I’m not sure I see the logic of not taxing it because boats never paid road tax. Most of the petrol I buy is to fuel my lawnmower, chainsaw and other gardening tools. I never paid road tax on any of them but have to pay the new higher rates of duty. So why – in principle – should my wealthy neighbour with his gin palace buy his fuel cheraper than I do?
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One of my hobbies is motorsport, I have to pay ‘road tax’ on fuel regardless of whether I’m using my vehicle off road or not, why should pleasure boat users get their fuel cheaper than me?
Having said that I can appreciate that there is a good argument for not charging extra tax on commercial fuel.
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Peter and Kev, great news!! According to the Customs, it is only an offence to use red diesel or blue petrol on public roads – that’s how it replaced road tax. So filling your chainsaw or off-road vehicle is within the law as long as you don’t use either on the roads!!
Student Bob – saving you money since 2009.
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Thank you Student Bob. I must confess that I didn’t know that and have been wasting my cash. I will check it out for myself – no offense but want to be 100% certain I’m not breaking the law -then I will go for the red stuff for my gardening equipment.
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Ah but yes Student Bob – sadly you can only buy marine petrol if you have a boat i.e. a reg number. Retailers who flog the stuff shouldn’t let you have any without one! Diesel is the same but you can bunker it with an appropriate tank (direct from the supplier).
BCB – I understand exactly the mechanics of the fishing industry. Yes you are right prices for all fish/shellfish are generally lower (certainly in real terms) than 10 years ago. Indeed, without the highly contencious annual Boue Blondel bass masacre many fishermen would leave the industry.
But again I go back to my main point – there is not a level playing field – as ever no joined up thinking. And it has to be fair – which is why fishermen (or anyone else) should not be exempt (if this goes ahead).
Example: my boat sits right next to another identical vessel which is GU registered – why should he get duty free juice and me not? Its already grossly unfair as he’s diesel powered and I’m petrol! The boats are used for identical purposes. Hmm.
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