Airport firefighters’ 18%
Tuesday 22nd December 2009, 2:30PM GMT.
AIRPORT firefighters have received an 18% pay rise when their States colleagues have got 0.1%, sources said yesterday. The ‘secret’ settlement takes the men’s pay from less than £28,750 to more than £34,000.
In all, the sources said, the total increase including allowances was £5,300.
The Public Sector Remuneration Committee was under political pressure yesterday to come clean about the officially undisclosed deal. Questions are to be asked at the next States meeting about the inflation-busting package.
Some deputies are concerned that it sends out the message to other workers that flexing industrial muscle – the airport was closed over two days last May – and refusing to use agreed arbitration processes gets better results.
Deputy Barry Brehaut (pictured), who sat on the PSRC under both its former chairmen, Jonathan Le Tocq and Deputy Al Brouard, said it would help industrial relations to publicise the deal and eliminate speculation among other pay groups.
‘In my time on the PSRC, the airport firefighters’ pay submission was about 16% at a time when RPI was about 4.8%, and more recently it’s been negative,’ he said.
‘At that time the gap was seen to be unbridgeable, so like many people I’m interested to know what has been agreed.’
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Now they’ve put the cat amongst the pigeons, I will forecast more than ever strikes now until all workers get the same result as those others,
18% is scandalous in this day and age when all are asked to tighten their belts.
Those who gave in to that blackmailing should not only feel guilty but should get out of politic as altogether,
You were elected to help the Islanders, instead you have betrayed them.
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It shut off before I was finished, so I will just say this,
I do not blame the workmen as such, it is only natural to get the best deal
But the negotiating body is a load of rubbish, no backbone, frightened by the closing of the airport being one threat.
That attitude never made Guernsey in the past, but today we’ve got a load of wimps who think they know best,
The sooner a new election comes the better let’s dump the rubbish and clear up this mess of politics in Guernsey.
Not surprising they asked for more money when the CM at a whim travels the world at the taxpayers expense. It time for a big brush to sweep away the rubbish.
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It’s about time we have a government with backbone rather than yellow streaks.
Spineless government, shambolic States.
The only winners are the greedy firemen.
Now they’ve set a president for thee rest of public sector workers.
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lets have some normal people on the panel, I mean your average worker who has experienced a pay freeze due to the current world climate.
I wonder how they would have handled it if they had to put their own hands in their pockets and not the pockets of the tax payer.
Who are these people and what planet do they live on. Secret pay agreements. There should be no secret pay agreements when it comes to tax payers money.
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Eric, I am inclined to agree with you. The trouble is Guernsey is allowing Mr Trott to be a small version of Tony Blair. The result of that is evident.
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Guess we will have to wait to read the facts and not believe all that is in the media. 18% does sound like an awful lot of money BUT perhaps they were well underpaid in the past. Hopefully the extortionate cost of the tribunal will result in the truth being told about how and why it took so long to come to an agreement.
If it stops further industrial action at the airport that is brilliant, with built in agreements that all shifts will be covered in the event of sickness or training or holidays etc. I have been told (but have no idea whether it is true or not) that the deal that has been struck is in line with airport firefighters in the UK and Jersey.
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This is simply unbelievable! I personally know some of the previous Airport Firemen who left, but they left because they were bored, not because the pay was low – (They knew what was on offer when they joined, and had second jobs!)
How on earth they can face the public knowing they have blackmailed the island into such a pay rise is beyond me. They may ‘risk their life’ in the event of an airport emergency, but so do many other careers in the island, and you don’t see those workforces labouring the point.
If I was going to award an 18% pay rise to a pubic serving group, these would be in way down the line.
It will be no surprise if the next surge of strikes for better pay come from:
Nurses
Teachers
Police
Arsenal Firemen
Etc. Etc.
Absolutely disgusted!
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I wonder if the real problem is that the fire fighters have a non-job. When was the last time they were called to put a fire out? Yet they have irritating calls upon their time.
It’s a bit like being a banker: no amount of money will compensate for it. They always want more.
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A very big well done to all concerned in this dispute, at last the lower paid workers in this Island will start to share in the prosperity others have been enjoying, let us hope that we will now see a vast improvement in the pay for all those others who have seen their wages suppressed for the last ten years or so, dont like what I say, look back at the States own official figures and see what the actual poverty and the relative poverty figures were, perhaps the Press would be brave enough to print these and show where different people in the Island (not just States employees)lie when measured against these scales,
Whilst this Island has been booming a lot of our workers have seen their rewards shrinking. Many say this Island can’t afford these pay rises. rubbish we have one of the strongest economies in the world, one of the biggest problems we have ! whilst the higher paid want more and more, they are prepared to pay less and less, services cost money if you want them put your hands in your pockets and pay for them. if not don’t complain when services are no longer available.
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I don’t think you have grasped the situation Molly.
The debate is about the secrecy, not the amount (although it is a mistake to give such a high rate)
the cause of the outburst is why should it have been kept secret; and still would be if wasn’t for the outcry.
I still maintain that if the English want that high rate, then let them pay for it, or the airlines, it’s for their benefit, so why should the ordinary working man(/woman pay for something they never have use for.
It’s a disgrace and a shambles,
The states body who ordered the increase should resign en-bloc.
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In the digital age there are no secrets. Why the negotiating body agreed with the union to keep the deal ‘confident’ is beyond me.
It’s patently obvious that over the past year that all sides on most arguments use the media to leak their sides of the stories.
Fodder for the media; they publish and just sit back and watch. Great satirical sport but reflects badly on an island that shouts so loudly about its reputation.
New Years resolution for government: “Be more open, avoid speculation”
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Neil Inder – I’ve seen more confidentiality at Manchester City!
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Astounded……
Can you please tell me why
Nurses
Teachers
Police
Arsenal Firemen
Etc. Etc.
should have to strike for a fair wage.
A wage relevent to costs in Guernsey.
Refusal to negotiate,rather, insisting on dictating by the old PSRC. has led us into the position we are now
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I don’t like the way in which this was achieved, however I applaud the firefighters for getting to a position where they are being paid a respectable salary.
I now believe it is time for other public sector workers on this island to use the settlement as the springboard for negotiating their own better pay. NOTE: I said negotiating, not striking!!
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Alan,
” at last the lower paid workers” don’t they need to do some work to be termed as “workers”?!
“services cost money if you want them put your hands in your pockets and pay for them. if not don’t complain when services are no longer available.”
I don’t mind paying for a service but the Airport Firemen don’t do anything – they don’t provide a service. When did they ever save a life or put out a fire? If it wasn’t for CAA regulations I would be quite happy to take my chances and travel by air without there being an Airport Fire Service.
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It really is amazing that they have got their own way after holding the island to ransom.
From now on they will get their pay rise they want each year otherwise they will go down with a mysterious illness.
Apparently they may sign a no strike clause, but if I recall they didn’t strike but just went off sick to cause the most inconvenience to the public.
We are governed by idiots.
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Alan
What you seem to be forgetting is that a lot of the better paid finance workers have been through extremely tough educational process and a heck of a lot of crap to get to where they are and the salaries they enjoy, they also work long hours with no overtime paid and very high levels of stress.
This is blatently different from your working conditions yet you expect parity with these workhorses, some of whom you screwed out of a holiday in the summer.
You knew what the salary and the conditions were when you joined, if you wanted a better salary you should have done more than just having “a reasonable level of fitness”, but my guess is you didnt like the sound of having to do some hard work so you resorted to blackmail.
Come on Nurses, lets have you next, at least you work on a daily basis.
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Humbug
You have hit the nail on the head. the CAA REQUIRE a certain number of TRAINED firefighters for airport cover, they require that this level of training is maintained,
Perhaps you would be happier if they earned their money by dragging people out of crashed aircraft shall we say, once a shift.
Truth man
Negotiation has proved impossible with the previous psrc, for all our sakes lets hope the new one has been instructed to NEGOTIATE. for the previous intrancigence will surely lead to further problems.
Muzeek
Depends on what the justification for the rumoured 18% was, if the same situation arises ??
For what its worth I am not a firefighter, and don’t know any.
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Yet we openly cannot diguise our glee at trying to ‘attract’ the greed of the fattest, most arrogant finance execs that do more harm than good GLOBALLY, when they ‘hold’ the UK to ‘ransom’ by squealing at even the slighest hint of a dent in their overpaid, over egocentric and over consumptive lifestyles.
And they do it here too. Hands off my billions or else.
Get you priorities right, people.
Pathetic. We will be an island full of the worst dregs of society at both ends of the scale at this rate.
Very well done, short termist brilliance.
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THE MAN.
one thing you forgot to mention, when you sent your war cry out to the Nurses.
That which you forgot to mention was the fact and a big fact at that
Nurses have that quality of honour amongst them; they work long shifts: meet all kinds of people. some are nice but a lot are just moaners, and think they are the ones who should receive care at all times.
Nurses in my opinion would make very good politicians, They are patient, they listen, they carry out their duties, They KNOW their job, and we the public should be proud that they are what they are.
I speak from a long, and at times a painful stay with nurses in their place of work.
To me all nurses are *Angels’ they don’t flap their wings, they are far to busy for such frivolous activities.
Nurses you are the tops.
It is you who should have a rise in wages.
Danger those others say, My word Nurses have danger everyday, the illness such as pneumonia, now the swine flu, the ordinary winter flu colds diseases, a long list of probable dangers,
Nurses just carry on. They are people of STAMINA, not pretentious fools.
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Alan
You say you are not a fireman and don`t know any of them? so how do you know it was the old psrc who would not negotiate? maybe the firemen played their part in this too? what about the psd as the employer?. Making demands and blackmail is not really a negotiation is it?. Having heard some of the things Al Brouard has been called by a few firemen and their friends i`m surprised he would even want to talk to them at all.
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If they are now getting the proper rate for the job ( if that is indeed the correct pay scale ) then they deserve it as they must have been underpaid for years while trying to negotiate with a brick wall
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Lets stop the jerking knee’s and remember what Ron La Cras said is that the reason the details have not been released is that the agreement has not been finalised. Which is standard procedure in these cases.
It is the Press that keeps using the word secret, quite simply to hype up the story to keep it alive. When it is finalised the details will be released for everyone to see.
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Ok, so it looks like a done deal as far as the 18 % pay rise for the Airport Firefighters, but what do the Town firefighters think of all this.
We missed a wonderful opportunity to sort this out once and for all.
Give the Town firefighters the same deal and train them up to the same standards as required by the CAA, thereby giving us long term security as far as Airport cover is concerned.
Surely it makes sense.
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Well why if the deal has not been finalised has anyone opened their mouth, half the island think they know what is being paid to the firefighters,or is it really just a bloke in the pub summising again. And after the round of family get togethers over Christmas that will be three quarters of the island playing chinese whispers.Lets wait and see what PRSC come up with and then we can all comment on it.
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bcb
I agree. I do not like demands and blackmail
how about, we will keep your wages so low that
your department will always be short staffed,but that doesn’t matter because we DEMAND you work your days off continually, if you don’t, we will say its your fault the Airport can’t operate and leave you open to public contempt
Muzeek
probably the most constructive comment on this page, offer them the training, and increase their wages as they qualify, job done and this one tiny sector of the island sorted. C.A.A happy, travelling public happy firemen happy
Once again well done the new PSRC
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Can anyone enlighten me on how(suggested on this forum)the town Fire Brigade could possibly encompass the AFS competency training and 4 yearly CAA re-validation qualification and college courses as well as their primary job,not excluding all of their training,overtime,annual leave etc?
Wouldn’t the town Fire Brigade themselves be,in this hyperthetical question,overstretched,hence moving away from the already over publicised retention issues of the AFS and placing them in exactly the same position?
Do people on this forum not think that if the amalgamation of the two could be implemented,then it probably would have been.
Its like Rugby and Football.Both balls,different game.
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So, having seemingly secured an 18% pay rise (if confirmed), is it fair to assume that the airport firemen are now able to give up their second and third jobs so that they are fully devoted to their primary one, without distraction ? Or did the negotiations not cover this rather important point ? An increase from £28k to £34k isn’t that relevant if they are earning nearly the same elsewhere from their other jobs.
I don’t have any problem whatsoever with them having second and third jobs, provided that their overriding obligation is to the primary job at the airport and that this is made clear in their new contracts. Surely not too much to ask ?
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I think David Cranch may have hit the nail on the head as far as the airport firemen’s dissatisfaction with their lot is concerned.
In the 1970s there were continual wildcat strikes in the motor industry. At that time, working on the production line was boring yet demanding. For many car workers, a strike was the most exciting thing to happen in their working lives so they were easily persuaded by their shop stewards although they were already relatively well paid.
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Katie
Good comment, but how do the Airport Firefighters cope with all the training as they also have a primary job, annual leave etc.
I know from the past when I used to visit the Airport fire station when working for another emergency service that the Firefighters spent a lot of time trying to keep themselves busy, and it was obvious it can at times be a boring job so they need to be motivated.
One has to understand that we are a small island where our situation is unique in that we cannot get assistance from another Fire brigade from just down the road, so we have to use our services the best we can.
Surely we can find a way of amalgamating both brigades and possibly at times revolve the men between each station, if necessary.
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I wouldn’t get all huffed up about the GP’s “Sources”.
I think it’s a fair rise
@The Man – Bankers chose that career, they should expect the toughness, most of them are foreign anyway!
Local nurses should be given a pay rise, yes. They have to pay for their own home, but foreign ones are given free housing.
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GG
So you think most bankers in Guernsey are foreign ? I think you need to check your facts before making such a ridiculous comment.
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GG
By that reasoning Airport firefighters also chose their career and the salary and the conditions.
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Are the Airport Fireman going to do the same thing as they did just after when they returned to work in May ? For those who did not know that they were so ashamed of their actions, here is the reality …..
They were walking around the airport terminal with their Hi-Viz jackets turned inside out so they would not be attacked , we did point this out to all members of the public so please be aware that the apparantly “brave” workers are scared of the General Public
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Airport worker.
What a pathetic,childish post.
If you are as you claim to be,an Airport worker,why don’t you “turn your coat”and pop down to the station and speak to the lads about what concerns you so much, that you feel the need to post utter drivel.We will look forward to speaking to you soon.
As in,are the Airport Firemen going to do the same thing as they did just after when they returned to work in May.Huh?
I don’t recall anyone actually leaving work in May for them to subsequently have to return.What happened just after the grand “return” I don’t know!Are you perhaps a little dillusional?
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Fine but do away with all Govt type pensions.
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I would like to say a thank you to the AFS for gaining such a huge pay rise, speaking as a Town Firefighter. The majority of us on station are quite concerned by this huge jump in the pay of the AFS when you consider the many competencies and caps that we have to specialise in. As part of our promotion process we have to take the institute of fire engineers exams, part of one of these exams includes aircraft firefighting. AFS personnel donot have to take exams for promotion! What iam making a point of is this increase in pay for the AFS is definetely giving us some rather large ammuntion for our pay rounds.
See you soon PSRC…
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AirportWorker,
If the ‘brave’ airport firefighters are scared of being attacked by the general public can I suggest they use some of their one off £4000 payment to hire personal bodyguards to ensure their safety (or alternatively part of their rumoured 18% payrise), personally I’d happily put up with a bit of verbal from the public, it’s a small price to pay for an extra £5-6000 a year when the rest of the States manual workers are struggling to make ends meet!
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I don’t think people really understand the situation that well.
Continually working shifts that you are not contracted to do is not an acceptable working condition for anyone, in any field. A bit of overtime to help out, yes if reasonable, but not when it gets to the stage that you cannot plan your life around work because days and times you are supposed to be not working, you are being OBLIGED to feel that you have to work.
If the only way to keep the airport open is to have conditions that create an environment where the firefighters don’t all leave after a few weeks, after being trained at expense, then the net effect will be a saving for the public purse.
This isn’t about militancy, or greed, but about people being allowed to have a life like the rest of us do.
If anyone wants to complain about their conditions, and use this as an example of bargaining strategy, then it will fail. Spruce is barking up the wrong tree. It was a management and negotiator failure not to be able to recruit and retain. They saw this coming for years and did nothing. Those AFS that stuck it out through that period aren’t in it for the money, else they’d have gone too, wouldn’t they?
David your point about 2nd/3rd jobs is ignorant, as ever. If you are contracted to work hours, and you plan something in the other hours, say another contracted job, then which job contract are you going to break? The one that closes the airport, or the other one?
People have no idea.
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Jamie Oliver
Not sure who gave you this incorrect information. If a member of the AFS wants to become an ‘acting rank’ they have to pass an interview and regular modules. Once they are promoted they have to attend another course in the mainland with exams and if they fail they either retake it or don’t get promoted. This is the case for all promotional courses. The same applies for revalidation courses. If you don’t pass you don’t keep the job. Simples. Good luck with your pay rise. For what its worth I think you should have it as you are all underpaid as are Ambulance, Police, Nurses etc.
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Arnald
My comment was not ignorant at all. I heard first-hand from an airport fireman back in May when the strike was on that his “other job” paid better than his job at the airport and dictated his priorities when it came to being “on call”. His contract for the airport at the time did not prevent him from having a second job, but it did NOT stipulate that his second (or third)job must not get in the way of his airport job. As far as that particular fireman was concerned, he treated his airport job as his SECOND job. So my question was quite valid – are the airport firemen now required to ensure that any second or third employments do not impact on their availability to carry out their airport job ? It is a perfectly valid question in the circumstances.
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David
Why should it?
If the firefighter, who is on call, and is called but not available, then disciplinary action should follow. If off call then thems the breaks. They have to abide by the three shift types. If you are suggesting that he chose all his on calls in unsocial shifts, then yes, that is a fault in negotiation, but surely they can’t all do that can they? No. So it must be written in.
Do you think that this applies to ALL the firefighters? If it does it shows just how bad morale is, not that the firefighters are ‘holding us to ranso,’ as Roffey keeps banging on about.
Is that how we want our essential public service workers to feel, second jobbers?
I understand your point, but picking out individuals and the actual amount earned indicates that this is be all and end all of work. It clearly isn’t otherwise we’d have nobody doing the jobs we need.
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Can anyone explain whether the firefighters’ new deal will result in them working fewer hours than they currently do (including being on call)?
Arnald
Nice to see that Xmas hasn’t affected the content of your posts. Still full of exaggerations and insults.
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Phil
at the moment there isn’t a new deal as nothing is finalised or signed. If the proposed deal is offered and accepted then the hours wouldn’t change apart from the extra hours on call as far as I am aware.
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Phil
Point me to an exaggeration? Nice to see you still haven’t got anything to say other than harangue me.
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In response to many posts.There has never been a game of one upmanship or blackmail in any negotiation for any proposed pay deal.
The issues are, for approx the 4 years this process has been dragging on, wholly down to the antiquated way in which the old PSRC was mandated and the inability for line managers to get involved on behalf of the staff,as this was seen by the PSRC as over stepping their contracted mandate of managing.Hence the staff with the help of the Union effectively had to fight a management issue on behalf of or without the geater help of management.
The PSRC is mandated to negotiate pay not the detail of management issues.
We as a body of men only stood our ground through out this process until atleast our voices were heard and constructive dialogue could commence on proposed pay and condition changes.
I for one indeed do think that the Emergency services should get a better pay package,but these packages need to be negotiated by the specific rep for each service and operational differences catered for.
Please don’t assume these negotiations were taken lightly at the detriment to other services,but sometimes you just have to get on and fight your own battles.
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why dont you all just get over it and find something new to moan about !
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Arnald
Allowing a second job is a concession by the employer, NOT an automatic right of the employee. Therefore, if the working practices of the airport role with shift work enables an employee to hold down a second job, whether self-employed or not, then it should be a pre-requisite in the contract that the second job does not prevent the primary job from being carried out. Otherwise its very simple – the primary employer should be entitled to withdraw the concession to permit a second job.
Its a very reasonable and generous concession to allow a second job, and is one which I’m sure the airport firemen take for granted, which they shouldn’t. They are now getting extra money to properly allow for the fact that they are often on call when not on duty, so isn’t it reasonable for them to either make sure that they are actually available to be on call, or that whatever second or third jobs that they are able to hold down are operated around that primary role ?
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Arnald
You wanted to be pointed to an exaggeration:-
“If the only way to keep the airport open is to have conditions that create an environment where the firefighters don’t all leave after a few weeks, after being trained at expense, then the net effect will be a saving for the public purse”.
Are you really saying that “all” of them leave a few weeks after completing their training?
I also notice you didn’t argue about your being insulting?
I also fail to see how I “harangue” you, perhaps you ought to check the definition of the word before accusing me?
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Mr Cranch..I sincerely hope that you you never have call to rely on the services of the AFS, you wouldn’t think of what they do as a non-job if you or your family were sat in a burning plane at the end of the runway.
Seems obvious there are areas of their employment contracts that need tightening up, perhaps the stories of some regarding the AFS as a second job is more down to moral than anything else.
Either way it is inexcusable to denigrate what those guys are prepared to do when they are needed.
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Jamie Oliver
Its Gordon Ramsey here.
Speaking as someone who was part of the service and with a great deal of knowledge about the two fire services that serve the island it seems as though you F WORD about the A.F.R.S (AIRPORT FIRE and RESCUE SERVICE ).
First of all I would like to point out to you and everyone else who feel the need to put in their two penny’s worth that the G.F.R.S. (GUERNSEY FIRE and RESCUE SERVICE who I might add changed their name recently to match the A.F.R.S. as they don’t deal with too many fires anymore and mainly provide a rescue service now) had always been paid a lower wage than the A.F.R.S.
The G.F.R.S. leap frogged the A.F.R.S. when they were awarded a rather large pay rise themselves. I was led to believe that this occurred when G.F.R.S were on parity wage with their counterparts in the U.K. who if my memory serves me correctly the FBU demanded a 39 percent increase in pay, a two day strike followed and began at 18:00 hrs GMT, on Wednesday 13 November and ended at 18:00 on Friday 15 November. The armed forces provided emergency cover during the strike, using vintage Green Goddess engines. On June 12, 2003, the dispute ended with the firefighters accepting a pay deal worth 16 percent over three years linked to changes to working conditions.
However the G.F.R.S. did not take action but did benefit from action taken by their colleagues in the U.K. This was never reported by this tabloid paper that serves the bailiwick of Guernsey (i.e. the Guernsey Press). So a big F WORD here by you and Deputy Tony Spruce.
Anyhow on the next note I believe SM hit the nail on the head in his blog before. If a member of the AFS wants to become an ‘acting rank’ they have to pass an interview and regular modules. Once they are promoted they have to attend another course at the International Fire Training Centre in Teesside U.K. with exams and if they fail they either retake it or don’t get promoted. This is the case for all promotional courses. The same applies for revalidation courses. If you don’t pass you don’t keep the job so another F WORD with your inaccurate info.
Also the A.F.R.S. have to do three months of in-house training and then on to the International Fire Training Centre in Teesside U.K. and then revalidate every four (4) years as well as fulfilling the requirements of the C.A.A. cap 699. That’s just the fire stuff then there is First Aid Training, Breathing Apparatus and all the requirements for the airfield. The G.F.R.S. Go on a one off 12-16 week course at Plympton Fire School U.K. then in-house training with the exception of promotional courses so yet again another F WORD with your inaccurate info.
I would also like to point out that the G.F.R.S. get paid to sleep almost half of their weekly hours, don’t have to look after the upkeep of their station and can also drive around this island looking like they are busy and sitting in a café for breakfast on a Sunday/Bank holiday but yet this is excepted by the general public
At the moment there IS NO new deal as nothing is finalised or signed. If the proposed deal is offered and accepted then the hours wouldn’t change apart from the extra hours on call as far as I am aware.
I hope this has enlightened some of you.
DONE.
Gordon Ramsey
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Good grief, Phil!
What has this all been about if not recruitment and retainment? How do you know the ‘all’ I was referring to weren’t the ‘all’ that left after a training, at great expense?
We all like a bit of sarcastic pedantry, but that was just rubbish.
David
Most shift work jobs work like that, I was taken that as a given. What you were implying was that the firefighters would let the airport shut rather than lose their second job. I say this is nonsense, otherwise the whole system would have collapsed by now. Just because a bloke in the pub says he gets paid more for his whatever job doesn’t mean they would automatically be pig-headed and fail to serve their duty to the airport.
What they do is leave. Which is why we have a problem. It’s nothing to do with the contract, which is what you repeatedly assert.
I think I agree with what you’re getting at, that the wage should allow the workers to relax a bit more about earning enough to keep in line with material necessities needed to feel treated as a valid member of society, like a mortgage, or food, without having to moan about how they won’t be able to do their second job because of the sense of duty they have to their primary job.
At what stage does impinging on free-time become an issue worth striking about? 4 years seems to have done it. Who was really abusing the primary contract more?
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I wonder if all the private sector employment tribunal cases that sit within legal non disclosures were released, if those employees would get the same sort of abuse as anyone in the public daring to organise themselves into a dispute?
Gordon ‘i played for rangers’ Ramsay is right. Let’s just pick at the headline and start imagining the armed metropolitan police on horseback charging at some miners. And then spin that back round.
Get some facts.
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Arnald
Oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realise it was all about recruitment and retainment. So all those who were recruited, then trained, but not retained, had no idea of the pay and working conditions that would be in place once they began working?
As for taking your comments out of context, don’t be ridiculous. As per usual you’re trying to bluff your way through when you clearly don’t have a leg to stand on.
Which district will you be standing in at the next election? That promises to be most entertaining, would you like some odds on your chances of success?
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Phil
Do you read anything anyone has said about any of the threads you post on? It’s just random attacks on me and it just makes you look silly.
The issue is that the AFS, for four years or so, were being asked to work on their off-shift off-call time, impacting on any life they may have wanted to lead outside of their employment with the airport.
You don’t sign up to that.
The reason staff were not being retained was because they could earn more elsewhere without that sort of hassle, especially seeing as their raised concerns were never dealt with.
Word gets out, and then they don’t recruit.
Do you need a graph with some meaningless numbers for it to make any sense to you?
Bluff?
oh dear.
That’s the finance industry for you. Fantasy.
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Arnald
So are you saying that for 4 years new recruits were unaware of the working conditions that were in place? If so they can’t have asked many questions at the interview stage. Can you imagine accepting a job without knowing what your working hours would be?
In my current job I work longer hours than I am contracted to do, because we are busy at the moment and the work needs to be done. I don’t get paid any overtime for this, however I’m happy to do it because that’s what was discussed when I took the job. Leaving aside the fact the the likelihood of any public sector employee doing overtime for no reward is unlikely in the extreme, you would expect them (wouldn’t you?) to at least try and establish what their working hours were likely to be? Maybe they did and the interviewer lied to them, in which case they were obviously in the wrong.
If you consider that my posts constitute “random attacks” you must be particularly thin-skinned, as in actual fact they are merely comments on the content and tone of your posts, which often leave a lot to be desired.
Such a thin skin isn’t ideal in a wannabe politician you know. The odds have just lengthened from a fortnight in Portugal to a carrot, to six months in the Far East to a jelly bean.
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I await with interest how hard ron le cras will work for me when i get down to negotiating alongside my collegues for a pay raise. it seems he’s only interested in unite members of states departments.
unfortunately we don’t have the clout of the airport firemen.
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Arnald, at the bottom of your post at 9.59am you say “Get some facts.”
Yet in the previous paragraph you mention “armed metropolitan policeman on horseback”. Which is absolute rubbish, as there weren;t any armed mounted police! So you weren’t really stating a fact there, just something you’d made up for effect!
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Phil
I am only repeating what the people at the sharp end of speculatative criticism – led by sensationalised headlines, or by disgruntled pub talk, that have only half a meaning and designed specifically to provoke a reaction of public antipathy towards them and their representatives – have been posting on here for months.
Tell me: what would you do if you felt aggrieved that you were expected to do overtime because the management were, for whatever reason and over a period of years, unable to do their job and manage the specified requirements they were expected to deliver?
What the language of those that are attacking in full ignorance of the facts broadcasts, although those facts have been aired by those that are being attacked, is a resentment of our quite democratic and free-ish society.
Why do people think that others should “put up or shut up” when it comes to being fairly treated when committed to an essential service, yet sudddenly feel ‘threatened’ when the same is being told to them.
Erm, the finance industry springs to mind, funnily enough. “we’ll all leave”
“leaving a lot to be desired”, Phil, is of course your opinion, i am happy to admit i can sit here in ‘ignorance’ of the full story.
But I happen to believe that those that dedicate themselves to servicing essential infrastructure do not ‘strike for fun’, or wish to ‘hold’ anyone ‘to ransom’.
They could have just left and done something else.
The whole line of argument makes no sense at all: the language being used is just a repetition of UK tabloid headlines from a brief few years in UK history.
Oh, and Phil, you’re not insulting me, you’re just jumping on anything I post and relating it to my opinions that you don’t share on other matters. I do the same. I find it amusing that you are basing your attempts on an undefined future set of circumstances, though, but if you want me to play the game, it’s a simple mathematical equation.
I’ll do you a powerpoint presentation at some stage, if you’re interested.
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