Out of 37 Flybe airports only Guernsey was shut
Saturday 9th January 2010, 2:30PM GMT.
Guernsey’s low-tech approach to runway de-icing has angered airlines and dismayed passengers. (Picture by Tom Tardif, 0898558)
GUERNSEY airport was strongly criticised yesterday by Flybe for being the only airstrip closed out of the 37 to which it operates in the British Isles.
Thousands of passengers were left out in the cold for a third day yesterday as airport staff used tractors, a fire engine and a road sweeper in a desperate bid to break up the ice.
Flybe spokesman Niall Duffy asked why the runway could not be de-iced, allowing backed-up flights to get moving.
‘Other airports have benefited from progressive, forward-looking investment in separate drainage facilities to deal with chemical run-off and it is a real concern that an island which needs modern facilities doesn’t have them.’
Public Services, the department in charge of the airport, has belatedly announced that it is investigating using a chemical de-icing alternative.
Rock salt, which is used in the UK, has been ruled out by Guernsey Water. And airport director Colin Le Ray has insisted that nothing more could have been done to get the airport operational.
Chief Minister Lyndon Trott, who was also stuck in the UK for two days, has promised to take the matter of how the island coped with snow and ice to the Policy Council for discussion.
- Public Services has identified a possible alternative to rock salt – calcium magnesium acetate – but sufficient stocks are not currently available locally to use island-wide. The de-icing chemical could be imported if the current cold snap continues. It would be as effective as salt but harmless to the water supply.
- Read the full story in the Guernsey Press. See below for subscription details.
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The whole Civil Service and Government is sick sick sick. Not fit for purpose.
At the moment we have a minor States trading company dictating to the whole island on how we deal with the ice and snow. Who are these States Water people? They seem to be not under the control of the States.
One more thing, cost, a red herring. If the states buy some salt, they store it in a dry place and 20 years later it’s still good for use. It doesn’t go off. So there is little ongoing cost. Seems a good insurance policy.
Lastly, why have the States stopped putting out the gravel skips? There used to be one by me but it didn’t appear in November.
Hopeless and makes Guernsey a laughing stock.
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I can’t believe this because understandably Guernsey is not at the forefront of technology and it’s been very cold in the upper parishes! Somebody has the responsibility to ensure that all passengers coming and going are safe and all they are doing is their job. I am sure Flybe would have a bigger problem if one of their planes was to spin out of control on our runway. I beg you please stop all these silly complaints and well done to the airport for putting everybodies safety first, on behalf of Guernsey residents, thank you
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Chris
The Water Board is under the control of the States, however, no one in the States could advise the Water Board how to remove the resultant salt from our water supplies.
I notice that you haven’t told us all how it’s done.
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CHRIS. Re; your post. No, I did not see Guernsey as a ‘laughing stock’. Quite the opposite in fact. Indeed, my respect for Guernsey actually increased when I read that in their wisdom the Guernsey Sates did not put salt on the roads to cope with the ‘slick’ conditions. And that’s good, especially as the salt would have ended up in Guernsey’s drinking water – following which you really would have had something to bitch about!! Grow up. It’s winter. Get on with it.
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Someone from Aurigny or The States in charge of the runway wants to experience living in Manchester Airport for 3 days.
You have no idea what we went through and how much it effected us in the poor communications and treatment we received.
Hopefully the sooner you get this service into the current century with adequate equipment the better !!
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I think it’s a waste of money spending machinery to clear ice for 3 days of the year.
@Chris salt can’t be used because of the water run off.
At least we have Super Trott at our rescue again… who will hopefully be out of the States this year.
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Well said chris,its not just us thats a laughing stock over these feeble winter
conditions,its the whole of the British Isles!true fact is that this week in Scandinavia,airports have been opperating in temperatures of minus 25dgr C without hitch,and in some areas its
minus 42 dgrC ! kids are walking to schools that are open as normal,why? because the system is organised and run by people that have got “Guts”,and don’t “bleet” on about “health and Safety”,sadly it appears that most of our nation has turned “whimpish”..Simple idea here is to stop messing about,and send a States contingent to some
of the Northern countries,and learn how its done in real winter conditions..
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What would you rather have? A few days’ inconvenience or water you can’t drink? Yes, it is frustrating but the weather we – and the UK – are experiencing is exceptional and we can’t expect business as usual.
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Chris
Yes, that seems a fair summary. Absolutely no accountability, and therein lies the problem.
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I think it is worth than that; what we have is an entire island that is being manipulated by one element of the media. Front page news, a sensationalised headline and all the little fishes bite time and time again. Isn’t it about time those who criticise actually bother to inform themselves, rather than believe as gospel all they read?
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flybe whats your problem? when the aiport is open you are 9 times out of ten late or you can not fly due to TECHNICAL problem!
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Please someone, explain to me what harm the use of rock salt can do to an island surrounded by salt water which does not treat its sewage before pumping it into said salt water.
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Having been stuck at Gatwick because Flybe weren’t flying – it appears that the ice on Guernsey runway is not the only factor in this cold spell.
Aurigny planes did take off – albeit delayed – and it was frustrating to be booked with the ‘wrong’ airline.
I wonder if an additional facotr was that the Flybe pilots decided not to fly, whilst Aurigny did.
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So only one out of 37 airports in the British Isles served by Flybe was shut. I think Flybe should count itself very lucky indeed that not more airports were shut and it was able to continue the majority of its flights. I therefore congratulate Flybe that so few of its flights have been affected. On the other hand, one hopes that the expense of any proposed new runway will include underfloor heating!
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The resevoir has already been contaminated by run off at the airport by that nastey fire foam stuff. So good job somebody is ensuring that the Island water supplier remains fit for drinking.
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charlie
Why on earth do you compare Guernsey with places like that? and the snow content up there is very different as its much more of a powder and very easy to walk/drive in, yes i`ve been there before you ask.
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How is it that no other countries suffer from salt contaminated drinking water?
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What proportion of run-off from the roads actually enters the ground water system such that it can increase the salt levels in the reservoir?
Surely it is small and cumulative – wouldn’t it be a good idea to salt/grit now and investigate an alternative for successive years?
Let’s face it – if there was such a terrible health hazard (& I believe the problem is more one of taste in isolated wells close to unusual run-off areas) then all airports and roads would be shut all over northern Europe. Even in the EUSSR ‘Health & Safety’ is balanced by some form of pragmatism.
In Guernsey it seldom snows, so the cumulative effect must be minute compared to elsewhere.
Isn’t there far more of a problem from agricultural fertilizers…
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The resevoir is not the only water catchment for drinking water, there is a massive natutal underground resevoir (in I think rock bed) under St Andrews for example.
Personally, it’s just a few days a year, get on with it as someone posted above.
The environment has to be cut some slack, we can not patch everything all the time to make life comfy bed of roses without pay back, be it for us now or creep up for future generations.
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STOP compairing our little island to the countries in the USSR etc. they have snow for most of the year therefore they need to spend the money preparing for it and are used to dealing with it!
Whereas we have snow maybe 3 days out of 3years, so there would be no point spending heedless amounts of money on a system that will solve our icing problems!! it would just be a waste of money.
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It’s funny how flybe are quick to criticise that the airport closing leaving passengers stranded yet on Saturday they cancelled their last flight of the day to Gatwick but Aurigny managed to go albeit with a slight delay. Isn’t that a bit hypercrictal of them? It would be interesting to see how many flights flybe cancelled out of Guernsey in the past week whilst the airport was open, after all they cannot blame it on the destination airport as ‘apparently’ Guernsey was the only airport shut! I notice that they have a weather update on their website today advising that Birmingham & Leeds Bradford airports are currently closed, so it seems it’s not just Guernsey that are going to end up in Flybe’s bad books! Aurigny seem to have proved to be the more reliable airline during the recent spell of bad weather and they will actually make an effort to get you back rather than just cancel so they don’t upset their punctuality stats!
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I think the Press may have jumped to the wrong conclusion with the front page photo and caption referring to Guernsey’s low-tech answer to runway de-icing (Saturday, 10-01-2009.
My own investigation reveals that the guy in the tractor was not actually clearing the runway, he was just using it as a short cut and to avoid the traffic jams into St. Martin’s…..Now why didn’t I think of that?
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Flybe are quick to criticise but not so quick when criticism is raised about their service generally to islanders.
I travel regulalrly to the UK ( on average twice a week ) and for years had to endure only being able to use Flybe on the Southampton route. Flybe only cared about money, failed to keep you informed when there were problems and were quick to cancel flights leaving passengers stranded. they are the worst airline I have ever had to use with the worst customer service department who send out standard letters not considering the passengers individual circumstances.
they complain about 2 days of ice but fail to recognise the days and weeks I have lost over the years through their incompetence.
I now always use Blue Islands when I can who provide excellent service, keep you informed and value the cutstomer. Their frequent flyer programme is also so much better than Flybe.
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GGG.Well said they sress me out so much-I always fly with blue islands to southampton.But i am having to take my little dog over next time so i was going to go with flybe untill they told me that a return just for my dog who weighs only 3 pnd would cost £500 pound return pluss a handling charge.
FLYBE ARE A RIP OFF. but guess what we are now flying AURIGNYwho take dogs and are a lot cheaper
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Flybe need to jusyify your charges and it is illegal to charge extra for using bank cards.
we need a honest airline in gsy and kick flybe out
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COCO
I have congratulated Blue Islands and derek Coates several times on their excellent service and thanked them for reducing my stress levels.
I hated turning up at either Guernsey or Southampton airport but now I rather enjoy the experience knowing that Blue Islands care about the fare paying customer.
It is such a refreshing experience.
As for the ice we probably will not see it again for another year or two so no need to go to the expense of buying machinery that will only be used once in a while. Southampton airport was also closed for several days so i find it hard to believe that Flybe are blaming guernsey for everything. Guernsey residents must be major contributors towards Flybe’s profits so why is it that Flybe special deals do not really apply to guernsey residents and when will they stop charging for using cards on the nternet Bookings – how else are you meant to pay for bookings over the internet?
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Why buy de-icing equipment we may not need again for years or only one or two days a year.
In 1993 there was considerable debate about building desalination plants because of the drought. Since then it has rained so much the debate has never be raised again. What a waste of public money that would have been.
I think nearly everyone is understanding of what a small economy can afford and will forgive a few days when the airport is not operational.
I didnt see this fuss when the airport was not operational due to the firemen pay dispute or when fog closes the airport for a few days.
Live with it. flybe make enough money out of the island but before they moan about de-icing equipment they should improve their customer service.
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Leaving aside there are other harmless chemicals that could have been used, please consider this.
Why has the airport no system to catch contaminated run off? In any case, salt is not used on airport runways, it corrodes the planes as well as those little chips can get sucked into the engines.
And
Guernsey water supplies are so high in other pollutants that a bit of extra , in this case salt, would likely tip the supplies into going under the EU standards.
What is Guernsey water doing about increasing the quality of our drinking water? And please, saying they blend the supplies to come in under the limit is not an acceptable answer.
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I had the pleasure of joining many Guernsey folk , and other foreign folk in a new game of ” Musical Check-in ” , minus the music . For those who are unfamiliar with the game , which is understandable as I’m told that it is only played over a one or two days a year . It starts with you arriving at the airport before 6 am with all your luggage . First lap , you check in at the first available check in desk . Once checked in , the folk that are the adventure type , proceed through to the departure lounge , and if you are as lucky as I was you can sit and stare at the plane you could ” Maybe ” be departing on . Now this is important , the 2nd lap … Listen out for the ” Flight has been cancelled ” announcement , and once heard , the fun begins . Rush back through security , pop next door to the arrivals , and collect your luggage , 20kg’s is not much to lug around an airport , so no complaining . Proceed to the ” Flybe or Maybe ” check in desk , and collect your next clue for lap 3, this involves duplicating lap 1 & 2 . Not much fun you think , in between the collection of tickets , and checking in luggage , you need to pop out for a cigarette , pop upstairs for a coffee and of course with a dash of whisky . ( no I did not purchase at duty free ) then go stand back in line and wait for the next cancellation to be announced .
We finally got off the ground at 14:45 pm , now it was up to the pilot being able to find parking at Gatwick … I think what cracked me up the most was the very polite Hostess who came over the intercom and apologized for the slight delay … 7 hours , if that was slight , what is considered late . But with all the fun and games , I did find the Flybe staff , friendly and did what ever they could to accommodate and assist some very irate passengers , I also found the airport staff did what they could using everything they had to get the runway free of the ice hazard , and put passanger safety first . So well done to you all , and I do look forward to next years event .
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Blue islands and Aurigny sress free flyling.
FLYBE RIP OFF
We need blue islands to get bigger planes so we can do away with flybe.
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The States had in the 1960s, or thereabouts, a desalination plant that died due to neglect and lack of use.
That was probably one of the strongest arguments against building a desalination plant, when the idea was mooted again in the 1990s.
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Stephen
I think it was actually much later than that, I recall probably during the major drought of 1976 when the reservoir was virtually empty.
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The ice will melt soon….i wish flybe would melt away too
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coco – without FlyBe Guernsey would be stuffed.
Aurigny make a loss which is subsidised by the Guernsey taxpayer. I can’t see Blue Islands making much (if any) money. Both Aurigny and Blue Islands are crucifying each other on the inter islands routes.
If any airline is going to melt away it isn’t FlyBe.
You, and others, might not like FlyBe – then just use the alternative.
As their bottom line was being affected by the farce last week FlyBe have every right to grumble.
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Oh my goodness me,Jersey and Alderney airports are closed due to snow, what will happen now?
Guernsey airport is open.Swings and roundabouts me says.
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Maybe Flybe should look at what happened a few days before when Guernsey was just about the only airport open on their network
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And as a guernsey tax payer i dont mind if my tax money goes to Aurigny as they do such a excellant job.
unlike flybe rip off merchents
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And you say blue islands can not be making much money Well maybe it is because they are not greedy and NOT ripping us all off like flybe rip off dose
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GSY and the locals are stuffed with flybe rip off on the island.
they are the worst airline to touch down in guernsey. I have listened to so many storys where they have ripped ppl off and are still doing so.
A petition should be started to stop this- mind you they might charge for reading it
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Oh Coco, give it a rest! Gilthead, well said. If you don’t like Flybe, don’t fly with them, if you enjoy paying for an airline ticket twice (once in taxes, once to fly) travel with Aurigny.
An ice covered runway could have been avoided had the first night’s snow been brushed or scraped away instead of letting it freeze over on the second night. Isn’t that what’s happened in previous years? Either way, as ever, this island’s “leaders” did too little too late and caused unnecessary hassle for all.
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Coco:
A lot of your posts are about your feelings against Flybe. Whatever your personal feelings are, this story is about the fact that Guernsey could not keep it’s airport open and was the ONLY ONE that seemed to have that problem – despite the fact that our island was in fact hardly hit by the poor weather compared to other places. It is down to bad planning, and Aurigy or Blue Islands could have pointed that out just as Flybe did.
And as for the “we only get 3 days snow a year” argument – that is rather a poor reason to not account for the eventuality. I would be interested to know the cost of having the airport closed for those days, and whether this lost money would have paid for a solution to the ice problem.
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on behalf of Ms S she flew from uk to gsy for xmas checked in luggage and took 1 bag on to plan (flybe rip offs plane) no problems to gsy.
On going back from gsy to uk with flybe she checked in her luggage and took her 1 bag that fit into bag sizer through security to be told that she could not take it onto flybe plane as it was to big (yet it fit into bag sizer) so she went back through to check in desk to be told that she would have to check it in and be charged and pay a extra charge for not checking it in at the same time as her other luggage.THIS BAG NEVER GOT ANY BIGGER AND SHE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM BEFORE IT ALWAYS FIT IN THE BAG SIZER or whatever you call it
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Truth man- maybe with all the money flybe ripoff make they could have paid for it themselves
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Coco – you are of course entitled to your opinions about Flybe. You can now sleep soundly knowing that you have made them very clear.
Flybe is a commercial business that relies on people using its service to survive. I suggest therefore that if you don’t like their service, simply use another airline. If enough people agree with you, Flybe will start making a loss on the Guernsey route and leave – it’s economics so simple even I understand it.
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Coco, I think we all understand that you dislike Flybe, I don’t fly with them too, they’re generally more expensive, and do not provide a free can of Coca Cola.
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let me make it quite clear i do not Use them and have not for over a year. i was looking into flying with them next week to southampton with my dog untill they tried to rip me off by charging me 500 pound return for my dog plus handling charges. but thats FLYBE RIPOFF FOR YOU always on the scrounge
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To all you Blue Islands fans, i’m sure you’d change your tune if they stranded you in Zurich for 48 hours because your flight went “tech” and there were no free seats for 2 days. And you didn’t receive any contribution towards hotel costs, or food and drink, or even a proper apology.
Or maybe if you had a connection to make on a flight back from Geneva to Guernsey, but couldn’t make that connection because the airline decided to change the schedule without telling you!
I will never travel with them again.
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Birmingham, Gatwick closed all day and for part of the day Alderney airport closed too, what do you say about that then Flybe? Not much you can say as I am sure the big boys wont listen. Poor old Guernsey gets moaned at for not opening and all hell breaks loose. And as for the finance industry moaning about the closure of the airport, have they never heard of conference calls, how many really have to go off island for meetings?I wonder.
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Coco:
You’re flying Aurigny? In other words you expect people like me to subsidise your ticket cost because you’re too tight to pay for what you get. Come on man, be reasonable. Aurigny make a loss and balance the books from our taxes. Sounds to me like you’re the rip off merchant – stop raiding the public purse!!!
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So with all the technology at Gatwick why wasn’t that opened today? This is just Flybe, the not so ‘cut price’ airline, throwing their toys out of the pram because they can’t get their own way. Their customer service department also leaves a lot to be desired. I’ve been waiting weeks for a response to an enquiry and haven’t been able to find anything online as to what is happening today at Gatwick (Aurigny have been updating their site throughout the day)
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YOU will if you fly flybe ripoff. I give you six months depending on how often you fly, you will soon change your tune.
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Hello Stephen J!
As we know, the desalination plant became an expensive joke back in the sixties simply because it was left to rot. But there are all manner of things that we have to keep in trim in case of need. It was a ridiculous argument, later when a new plant was turned down because we or rather the States, did not have the nouse to keep it serviced.
As for the airport lapse, I think we had better get used to the idea as we may well see cattle grazing there in the not too distant future if powers abroad have their way with us. Business travel and its spin off has been the motivation for the development over the years of our airline services to the current level. I often wonder just how much of it is really necessary. The technical ability available to all of us enables communication effectively and amenably with reasonable security from our desks in Guernsey with people in far off lands let alone the City of London. Is business travel a fashion the guys who tread the streets of St Peter Port need to follow in order to be seen to be at the height of their trade – so long as they have access to an expense account? If so they have to be quite crackers. In the climate of thrift that seems to be taking a long time coming, we may well see the demand for air travel diminish significantly and permanently.
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Coco
Change the record please, it really is becoming rather boring.
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Truth man…i would rather my tax money go to aurigny than idle ppl sitting around doing nothing (work it out) aurigny do not raid. UNLIKE FLYBE RIPOFF WHO DO NOT GIVE VALUE FOR MONEY.i take it you do not fly that much truth man otherwise you would know what your talking about
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Wayne:
Can you not see that the message here is not one that reflects on Flybe at all? The fact that Guernsey was the only one of 37 destinations that was closed is a reflection on us as an island!! Come on man, the diversionary tactics are not going to resolve the issues of poor island management by the States… again.
And re Gatwick : it was not closed, it operated a reduced service. They had significantly worse weather than we have had this season but still kept it open, albeit on a reduced service level. I hope that clarifies the inaccuracy in your post.
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coco – I flew to/from Southampton with Flybe over 20 times in 2 years. Admittedly that was a couple of years ago but I doubt much has changed. I can only recall once having an issue with a flight that went “technical” and my ticket prices were on average about £80 return – far better value than Blue Islands.
You’ve made your point about Flybe which you’re entitled to make. You’ve also made your choice about the airline you fly with. We all know about Flybe’s stealth charges – we’re not complete idiots you know! Continually going on about it won’t change anyone’s mind about who they fly with – it will only make you look ridiculous.
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FLYBE RIPOFF ARE THE RIDICULOUS ONES.
as for being cheaper than blue island (you need to do your sums) i fly every other week with them for less than £80 and if i need to change that ticket for any reason i do not get charged.
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So hang on a minute here, coco what are you trying to say, that Flybe is a rip off or something?
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Coco:
Specifically, in answer to your assumption that I do not fly much… Actually, I do. All over the world, on a very regular basis. And I have done all of my adult life.
You seem rather narrow minded however, and I suspect your travel is limited to/from Guernsey. If it were broader you would know full well that Flybe are no worse, or better, than many other ‘budget’ airlines throughout the world. Granted, Aurigny are cheaper for you, but that is because I am subsidising your ticket.
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@coco – that’s true if you’re talking about a one way flight – return flights are never that cheap! Check their website which says that a GCI-SOU flight is from £62 and a SOU-GCI flight is from £56. That means that a return flight will never be below £118. A Flybe flight on the other hand (if you book early enough with the cheapest fares) for one passenger, with one 20kg bag and buying on a credit card is £100.96.
So I will concede that Blue Islands are more flexible than Flybe and that if you want to book later, Blue Islands may well work out better value. However your constant ranting about Flybe being a comparative rip off is demonstrably untrue – as I have proven that it is possible to get a cheaper flight with Flybe than Blue Islands – although admittedly not as flexible. If you look at it rationally (rather than just going on about how much you hate Flybe) what this shows is that there are good reasons to shop around depending on your requirements, not that one airline is considerably better than another.
Incidentally when Blue Islands started their SOU service I wrote to them questioning how they intended to compete with Flybe considering their prices were higher. Their response was they were specifically targeting a different market to Flybe – mainly the business market or those that wanted more flexibility. This is borne out with your experience of the increased flexibility of Blue Islands in comparison to Flybe which does suit the business market more than tourists who on the whole don’t want to change their flights at a whim.
@Dean – not at all…..I reckon coco has in fact been recruited by Flybe’s marketing department!! ;-)
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coco – you are starting to sound like a parrot on a stick.
So much so that I’ve just booked my summer holiday on the FlyBe website and got a nice cheap deal with the site being quite open an honest.
If you’re bored have a rummage round on Ryanair or EasyJet. You might just change your mind…
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Hey Dean! There’s a slim chance that you may have hit on something!!!
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Truth man just like you i travel all over-hence i know that flybe are the worst airline.they are being looked in to as we speak by uk and others.
Gilthead enjoy your holl hope you have a great flight.With flybe ripoff
paul nice to know you can add up, but are you right! i think tourists have a differ view.
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Coco:
You are wrong.
1. Globally, official ratings award Flybe 3 stars for both ground and onboard operations. Only TWO low cost airlines throughout the world score higher.
2. In 2009 user reviews award Flybe with an average 5/10. Out of the 95 airlines reviewed, only 39 scored higher than Flybe. That means 56 Airlines are WORSE or offer the same quality of service as Flybe.
Basically, wherever you look, it is quite apparent that Flybe are not the worst. And I include my own personal experience in this assessment.
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Coco – I’m quite sick of seeing your name pop up with the same closed minded rants about Fly be.
You are quite clearly lying that you’ve travelled all over the world and not just from Guernsey and back.
Because like Truth Man has stated there far far worse airlines and you would clearly know that if you had travelled on other airlines!
Here’s a tip, stop wasting your time posting endless comments slagging off Fly be – No one is agreeing with you!
If you believe, in your naivety, that Fly be are a rip off then FLY WITH ANOTHER AIRLINE! There are two other airlines to fly with, its simple.
And if your ever flying to or from India make sure you try out Air India, you might just realise how good you’ve had it with Fly be!
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Mr T maybe if you read some of the postings you would see that i do not fly with flybe.As for calling me a lyer i can prove to you that i am well travelled. Here is a tip for you…GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT BEFORE POSTING also MR T you must be interested as this is your 1st post
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coco what are talking about?? did you read my post at all or can you only respond in aggressive fly be slagging???
1. Where did I write that you have flown with Fly be?
2. Prove to me that me that you have travelled on other airlines then.
3. Learn how to spell Liar
4. “you must be interested as this is you 1st post” what in the world is that suppose to mean? take a second and read that sentence back to yourself. Firstly if I was interested then this WOULDN’T have been my first my first post. And secondly where did I write that I wasn’t interested?! I said “I’m quite sick of seeing your name pop up with the same closed minded rants about Fly be”.
Either take the time to read the post properly and respond appropriately or don’t at all!
Yet again your comments are pointless and merely a rant as you clearly have nothing more important in your life to worry about.
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LIKEWISE mr t
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If the airport firefighters could arrange any future planned strikes and walkouts to coincide with snowy weather when the airport is closed all will be sorted then ?
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Coco, give it a rest mate! I agree with you, Flybe aren’t great, and I’d much rather fly with Aurigny, but there’s no need to tell everybody the same thing 50 times.
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