School leavers struggle to get jobs in finance
Wednesday 10th February 2010, 2:29PM GMT.
SCHOOL leavers are struggling to find jobs in the finance industry.
Only 36 leavers from Years 11, 12 and 13 last year got a job in the finance sector, compared to 99 in 2008.
Retail is now the largest employer of school leavers, taking on 67.
Education released its school leaver statistics for 2009 yesterday, highlighting the destination of all 16 to 18-year-olds who decided not to continue in education.
Lifelong learning manager Alun Williams (pictured) said there had been a significant decline in opportunities in finance.
‘When we saw the figures we spoke to a few finance employers,’ he said. ‘Last year there were not the same number of jobs and those jobs that were there were going to people that were more experienced and better qualified.
‘So the message we are giving young people is that if you want to work in finance, you have to commit to education.’
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I feel sorry for the many school leavers/uni graduates who have been seeking work for the last year or so and struggling, both here and in the UK.
Saying that I think really having to work to get a job is character building for some people.
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Are the same figures available for university graduates returning to the island?
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This may sound harsh and although I sympathise with school leavers who can’t get work in finance this looks like a bit of a cold hard reality check for Guernsey.
For years we have existed in an employment bubble where many school leavers (even for a while those who left at 16 with GCSEs) could walk out of school and straight into a well paid job in a bank or trust company. Guernsey’s immigration laws effectively produced a captive employment market that local finance companies had to use.
The cold hard truth is that many wouldn’t have got an interview for equivalent jobs in other financial jurisdictions (e.g. the City of London) as the number of applicants are far greater, meaning they can set the standard much higher e.g. graduate level as a minimum.
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Tough times indeed. What the figures can’t tell us though is WHY fewer 16-18 year old school leavers got a job in finance, of course the natural thought is that the banks are not hiring or being more selective.
Of course we could ask why so many are going into retail, my suspicion is because a lot a kids are going for the “soft” options in their GCSE’s and perhaps have aspirations to do something that is not practical or available as a career in Guernsey.
I’ve never been convinced that careers advisors know enough of the variety of employment in the island and steer kids towards the easy high profile options
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Maybe theses are the ones with there nose pierced LOL ; )
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hmmmm coco may be on to something here. Perhaps more school leavers were offered jobs but turned them down when they realised they wouldn’t be allowed to wear nose piercings or hoodies? ;-)
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One obvious reason for the drop is that with many companies experiencing a recession or a flat growth curve in the current conditions, recruitment demand has dropped. Also, more and more 17/18 year olds are staying on at school to get A Levels and then going on to University, hoping that the job market has more prospects for them by the time that they graduate. As a result, significant numebers of bright 17/18 year olds who may have previously left school to go into the finance industry are doing higher education instead, while a greater percentage of those who leave school at 16 are not suited to finance industry work or don’t want finance industry work.
Its easy to under-estimate the number of people in today’s finance industry, in their mid-late 20s, 30s, 40s and even early 50s, who left school at 16 to go straight into the finance industry without any higher educational exams. In a fast-growing industry that was very easy to do (indeed at times too easy), but its bound to have an effect on numbers when business is not so buoyant.
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I fink dat dey fink we are all fick or summat?
We do bettur dan dem suits any day ov da week
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Could this be a product of a two-tier education system failing a large chunk of our children and just concentrating on giving an education with hope and aspirations to the handpicked. Equally, could this be the product of the ever so demanding finance industry once again using yet another lame discriminatory excuse to increase the amount of none locals into the industry thereby reducing the need to employ locals………
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peter you are assuming you need a college or grammar education to get a job in the finance industry which is wrong. Although I do agree we have a very two tier education system.
David you are much nearer the mark. I would add that perhaps, just perhaps, more young people are realizing that there are many more jobs to do than finance. Many of these jobs have ,dare I say it, more job satisfaction than finance.
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Kevin, but you need to be able to read, write and have numeracy skills or is the world of finance in Gsy at a lower level then other jurisdictions. Correct me if I am wrong but the very industry which as for decades decimated other forms of employment by openly taking any teenager regardless of ability straight from school and training in-house is now changing its recruitment policy and looking towards those school leavers (and none locals) who have the necessary qualifications and who will not be tempted to move onto a better place of work for more money and conditions.
Let’s be honest cherry picking school leavers from schools or colleges is a tried and tested form of educational discrimination in the island. Our whole education system have been about educational engineering youngsters into a world of finance and nothing else purely based on money and not ability. Now, the finance industry is moaning about the lack of ability of local school leavers, they will be cherry picking potential employees with more vigour which like I have said is discriminatory.
Will this change of employment policy increase the lack of employment potential for those now deemed not suitably qualified to work in an industry thereby resulting in increasing the ranks of the unemployed amongst the teenagers which in both the short and long-term is socially and economically damaging both for the teenager and the island.
I question the real motives of an industry that is all too powerful with a ‘must be obeyed or else’ mentality. Does the change in employment conditions entail a revision of all employment contracts within the finance industry and if so how many casualties will there be. The terms and conditions will most certainly be long-term commitment on the employer’s terms and not a two-way process between both parties.
Equally, is this yet another ploy in saving money and significantly increasing the outside workforce, if so then Gsy needs more stringent Housing licensing laws to protect the islands economy and its local population.
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There are less jobs available, ergo less oppurtunities for school leavers.
Gone are the days when any tom dick or harry leaving school can get a nice comfortable job in finance regardless of their school performance.
Also with increased pressure on the industry it stands to reason that they now need a skilled worker to come in and do a job straight away, rather than in 6 months time.
I beleive it also points to the dumbing down of education also. The kids leaving school nowadays have nowehere near the level of knowledge and skills as say 15 years ago nor do they have the discipline such is the decline in schooling.
If GCSE’s and A-Levels were a tough but fair educational measure and an accurate way of gauging intelligence rather than “how many A stars did you get??” then perhaps the system would be producing better quality school leavers as the kids would have to actually work for their grades.
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Pete Burtenshaw
Are you for real? Of course the recruitment policy is discriminatory! Shock horror, it discrimates against the less-qualified candidates in favour of the better-qualified candidates! Isn’t that how every employer selects from applicants or are you going to tell me something different? The quality and number of suitable applicants is based on good old supply and demand linked to natural market forces.
At various times in the past two decades there has been an unemployment level of maybe 200 people, many of whom being totally unsuited to any of the then 1000 vacancies in finance. So the finance industry employer in those times sets his sights lower on the level of qualifications required because it was a seller’s market. In the current climate there are far fewer vacancies and many more unemployed so the employer sets the minimum benchmark higher. Those with fewer qualifications today simply find themselves much further back in a much longer queue and are far less likely to land a job in the finance industry.
At times over the past two decades I’ve seen 16 year old youngsters land jobs in the finance industry with just a couple of GCSEs and barely able to string a coherent sentence together, and with no mathematical ability, at a time when 22 year olds A levels and a university degree can’t even get a job in the UK at Burger King or Macdonalds! I dont hear too many people locally whinging when the local employment market is in that cycle. Its called taking things for granted.
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I agree with you David, I wasn’t quite sure what point Pete was trying to make.
Incidentally, I have heard of people turned down for jobs because they are too qualified – isn’t that discrimination too?
Also, one could argue that discrimination exists in other trades, such as building. If a really strong bloke and a skinny nerd turn up looking for work on a building site, won’t the foreman discriminate in terms of physical ability?
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Well said David and Kevin. True colours shown again Mr Burtenshaw.
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Paul
People get totally carried away by the word “discrimination”. At the end of the day, doesn’t it just mean “choice” ? When you fancy a particular girl in a crowded room of girls, you are “discriminating” against the others, aren’t you ?
Its only certain forms of discrimination which are problematic, whether that’s sexual, racial, religious etc. There are others which cause problems in practical life such as choosing a non-mother for a job ahead of somebody with a child, or discriminating against a handicapped person, but opting to choose the person with the best academic qualifications ahead of those with weaker qualifications can hardly be “discriminatory”.
Its rather like being turned down to be a professional footballer if you are useless at it, and claiming that you are being discriminated against ! Its simply the fact that life isn’t fair – never has been and probably never will be.
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A 64% drop is contemptuous. It proves the lack of will by the finance industry to commit to a sustainable economy. Putting the bottom line and bonuses of the already rich above the earning power of local youngsters, and so encourage the next lot to also work hard at school, is a lurid example of the lack of substance and integrity shown by people who promote our tax planning nonsense and crow on about it.
What’s the point of achieving at school if you have a choice of being crippled with debt at university in a foreign country, or work in a shoe shop?
Market forces are redundant when future proofing the population.
Of course it is not discrimination, but it is a stark window into the future polarisation and disenfranchisement of the local population.
Already those locals who benefitted from David’s “two GCSEs” desperate employment strategy have become a whole rank of useless middle management. There are school leavers that could do their job better and with more imagination. Yet these are the folk who waltz around saying how great everything is, and who disgustingly pretend that their jobs are so important that they forget to understand what their jobs really are.
The administration of products that provide opportunities for tax abuse and so undermining the democracies of other countries. A bit like terrorism.
People who are proud of that should get some therapy. And a life.
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David
I suspect that Pete Burtenshaw would like to see us all dragged down to the level of the lowest common denominator.
He may be happy there, but it’s not where we all want to be!!
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I’ve never been one for ‘boats and planes leaving every day’ but for Pete Burtenshaw’s Arnoldesque response, today might be the day.
Don’t we breed enough of our own nutters without having to import them?
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Arnald
You don’t fool me…the pseudonym of “Merry Tocrazzi” doesn’t hide your identity at all.
And by the way, I didn’t say that I was proud of it at all – just saying it as it is.
Surely it’s just a fact of life that some people have more ability than others to follow vocations which demand high levels of memory retention and ability to learn complex facts and formulas which, in the modern world (rightly or wrongly) equates to higher-income earners. Others are far better equipped to follow vocations which demand use of a different part of the brain, being far better with their hands, or technical drawing, or understanding electric circuit boards etc. Others show absolutely no aptitude for learning, often get no encouragement from their parents who are down the pub every night while their kids are out on the streets, and end up leaving school at the earliest opportunity with no qualifications, ending up as low-skilled labourers as a result. I happen to know quite a few people like that who are far more intelligent than their school qualifications indicate, but they regret many years later not paying more attention at school because they were certainly capable of doing better.
There are also those who are let down by the education system and solutions must be found to address that problem. I suspect that many of them could genuinely be very talented at a particular skill which they never even get a chance to discover.
But trying to put labourers into the finance industry because its pays better is not going to be any more successful than putting bankers onto building sites. Everybody’s brains work differently, whether the right side or the left side is dominant. That dictates everyone’s aptitude for different types of skills, which in turn leads them to follow different vocations.
That’s reality, nothing more, nothing less.
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Hello everyone
I am Merry Tocrazzi’s older and richer brother, and as usual he is displaying his insolence by attacking our highly profitable finance industry.
I suspect he has again been socialising too much with his cousins (Fast Robert, Arnald and Lawrence) there’s always trouble when that rabble get together………
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David, you state the bleedin obvious. I agree.
Only 36 with the right attributes compared to a hundred last year? Are you saying that the majority Guernsey youth that cannot/will not go to uni are only fit for shops and labouring?
If the dominant industry, which happens to renumerate better than the resulting service sector, does not employ school leavers in proportion to the numbers available then the local real economy will become more distorted.
If the bonuses of those that deal in debt and obfuscation vehicles are more important than the future stability of the island then yeah, it is as it is.
Of course if the calibre of school leaver is not up to it they shouldn’t be employed in roles unsuitable to the task! But with rising levels of qualification attainment it does beg the question, especially for those who don’t have the ‘out’ of university (as they do in the UK): why bother?
Therefore teh finance industry has a social responsibility to demonstrate loyalty to its host jurisdiction. And that doesn’t mean building an extra conservatory and more latte at lunchtime.
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David
It is also the case that many high net worth individuals have dyslexia. Many sufferers excel in certain areas such as music or art.
I believe the main reasons for youngsters under achieving nowadays is born out of single parenting with a lack of structure & encouragement towards education.
Authority is another principal quality that is lost along the way with these individuals upbringing.
There seems to be an awful amount of ignorant chavvy mothers around that have children as a means for an income from the benefits system.
Until the mindset of individual parents can be engaged into the educational systems the youngsters wont stand much of a chance in later life.
I honestly cant see why people like you get so revved up by Arnold?
He reels em in, then spits em out one by one. Its the stupid ones that cant spot this happening. An internet militant activist.
Great reading though!
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David – agree with you about “discrimination” – my post was deliberately tongue in cheek :)
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Arnald
Before they can hope to go to university, they have to go to 6th form college. But before they can go to 6th form college they need to pass multiple GCSEs. Before they can pass multiple GCSEs, they have to be accepted into multiple GCSE classes by their schools. If they can’t get past that first hurdle then they are rather unlikely to be candidates for a job on the finance industry are they ?
But there are many who get their multiple GCSEs and who choose to enter the workforce at aged 16. They have proved that they have an aptitude for learning. I was one myself – I left school at 16, got the equivalent of A Levels by 18 and was professionally qualified at 22.
In the current market, with fewer job vacancies, the number of schoolleavers being taken on is reduced, as are the number of graduates. Simple supply and demand on a cyical basis.
It is morally wrong to force youngsters into office jobs when they are not suited to them. Far better to ensure that such youngsters get better prepared for trades. But even to get a City and Guilds apprenticeship these days you need some GCSEs and an aptitude for learning.
Like it or not, this island seems to have lots of 12 to 15 year olds who aren’t interested in learning, are allowed to be on the streets all evening with their mates while their parents drink in the pub all night, showing no interest in their kids’ education, behaviour or discipline. Are you seriously trying to pin that on the finance industry ?
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Are there figures which show how many people returned from Uni last year and took up roles in finance – seeing as normally a number do not return to the island post qualification, but they cant get jobs flipping burgers let alone speculating on the markets. If we had a higher then normal return of students, that would explain why the industry did not take in as many school leavers, why take a school leaver when you can have a graduate?
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I am intrigued by some of the comments I have read on this partiular issue.
I am currently undertaking exhaustive interviews for a position which requires someone with at least A levels and an ability to think for themselves and show initiative. This is not a finance industry position
I have been inundated with CV’s from local A level students who have been unable to find positions since leaving school / college last year. This supports the findings of the survey.
However I have also been surprised by the poor standard of the CV’s and the accompanying letters. I have also been surprised by the A levels that these students have in such subjects as photography, media studies and art. The CV’s and letters often have spelling mistakes which also surprises me.
I have been interviweing for over thirty years and certainly the calibre of candidates has fallen very recently.
When you do invite these candidates for interview some do not bother to turn up, others show no enthusiasm during the interview whilst others have appalling interview technique. Also presentation is important so anyone with dirty shoes or clothes does not get a second interview. In addition the internet makes it very easy to research the employer before an interview and yet despite hints from me very few students have shown the initiative to research the position advertised or the company looking to employ them.
When I was initially looking for employment after my A levels there was no internet but I visited the companies I applied to for corporate information and also undertook company searches by telephone to make sure I was fully prepared.
I wonder what the schools and careers advisors are actually doing for these students. The choice of A levels seems to be out of kilter with the type of industry available in Guernsey and most students seem to be woefully unprepared for attending an interview.
The attitude of many I interview seems to be Guernsey owes me a job so I am not going to try very hard. Monosyllables and grunts as answers are not the way to get a job.
When a candidate shows initiative and enthusiasm it is like a breath of fresh air.
None of the industries on Guernsey be they finance, light industry, retail, tourism or agriculture owe anybody a job. They are owned and run by hard working people who have the drive to succeed and are always on the look out for enthusiastic , hard working employees.
I am very keen to employ more young, local GCSE and A level students but they, in return have to show an interest and have the right qualifications to get to interview. Once in interview you can often spot someone you want in the first few minutes. You know whether or not they will fit into your team and be willing to face challenges even if they do not have quite the right qualifications.
In conclusion I repeat that in recent years the calibre of candidates has fallen. In the current economic climate nobody can blame employers for being discerning about who they take on.
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Arnald – it is nothing to do with the calibre of the candidates, it is the result of a more conservative level of demand based on general uncertainties in the world economy. The same is happening in the UK and every other nation that has a finance based industry. In comparison, our industry has in fact held up very well and has avoided the need for large scale redundancies seen in the UK.
The finance industry does dominate this island, for good or for bad, but the firms would not be serving their current employees (or the island) well if they were to take on unnecessary staff and become unprofitable.
Unfortunately for the individuals concerned, the future of school leavers and university graduates is often dictated by the lottery of where in the economic cycle we are when they arrive on teh job market. Not much that can be done about that.
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Paul
Totally agree with you. Very hard not to rise to the bait sometimes when so much cr*p is being spouted.
Paul Le Page
I did realise that – it wasn’t actually you that I was responding to.
TL
Absolutely spot on.
John
Can’t argue with any of that. Unfortunately, grammar seems to be optional these days. Sadly this goes back to the days when students started to be told at school that it didn’t matter whether the grammar was correct, as long as the teacher understood what they were trying to say ! That may be fine and dandy when the children are at school, but unfortunately in the business environment it means that 18-21 year olds have to start learning what they should have been taught right through their school life !
It is also not going to get any better with email and text language, but there is currently a huge hole in the academic curriculum which could be called “Learning to be Useful in the Working Environment”. As you say, somebody with A* grades at GCE A Level in “soft” subjects photography, sociology and media studies (you used to have to go to night school to study those !) isn’t much use to any employer if they cannot construct a grammatically-correct sentence. It makes no odds whether that’s in the finance industry or a clerical job in a manufacturing company.
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David
I never said it was crap. I share very similar views as Arnold & cannot see why anybody would take offence to what he posts.
The man talks a lot of sense IMO!
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Paul
I actually said that I totally agreed with you, although its quite frightening that you subsequently claim that you think Arnald speaks a lot of sense !
I wasn’t actually (just) referring to Arnald’s comments – I was equally referring to Pete Burtenshaw’s comments.
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Apologies David, my brain went on holiday for a few moments there.
John – excellent post. It amazes me in the age of computer literacy that students leave school with A Levels and still can’t proof read or even use a spell checker – or even ask their Mum to proof read for them! Either the careers teachers aren’t doing their job properly or the applicants simply don’t care.
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Whilst I love a good debate, I am staggered and alarmed by the level of personal attacks made against my person because I dare give my opinion.
David, yes I am for real and stand by my post 100%.
Auntie GP, please explain your rather lurid comment ‘True colours shown again Mr Burtenshaw’.
Phil, you will always be a rude rude person so your comments do not surprise me.
Neal Inder, I suggest we meet up or I can pop into your place of work so you can explain your disgraceful and slanderous comments you have so openly made against me.
You people cannot continue slandering those of us who dare disagree with your pro finance comments. Whilst it is your right to cower behind a pseudonym or use a Christian name false or not, it is not your right to abuse others.
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At last, some like minded people in John and David. I despair at what is happening to the English language and the way grammar is being taught (or not taught) and the subjects students are taking at school.
I was in the Upper Sixth when GCSE’s were introduced. I only did 2 A’level so in the Lower Sixth I supplemented this with an O’level and in the Upper Sixth I did a GCSE in Law – I passed it with a grade B which is pretty surprising considering we did little work in class, our teacher concentrated mainly on Guernsey Law but the exam and coursework was on English Law – and of course the reason I passed it is because much of the score was on coursework and you can just copy this out of the text books! I didn’t actually learn anything – I’m sure if I’d applied myself I could have easily got an A – we didn’t have an A* then, I suspect these were introduced because so many people were getting good pass rates.
I totally disagree with Pete Burtenshaw’s comments about a two tier education system, I think that guy has a real chip on his shoulder about something. I ‘failed’ my 11 plus but I have good qualifications from secondary school, both CSE’s and O’levels and then I went on to the Grammar School to do my A’levels. I’m now in a good job earning a very decent salary and enjoy a nice life. You get out of life what you put into it.
If you want a good job you have to make yourself stand out from the rest of the crowd in a positive way and only you can do that for yourself.
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Interesting and often valid (IMO) comments here from one and all.
Just to play devils advocate, has anyone considered that perhaps the reason these kids (who, despite being more overindulged and having more ‘rights’ than every before, are, according to a recent survey, more ‘depressed’ than ever) choose the ‘soft’ options, and don’t strive for qualifications that will make them acceptable finance fodder as soon as they leave the education system, is actually because they don’t WANT to work in finance?
I know many people who work in recruitment, and over the past couple of years, they could count on one hand the number of school/Uni leavers who wanted anything else but a temp job in finance to see them through til they decided which career they wish to pursue.
I can only speculate as to why this phenomena is occurring, but is it possible that after years of study and being told how important it is to find a career that allows one to use and develop one’s own skills and abilities, today’s youth want a career that provides just a little more fulfillment than doing admin and recs 8 hours a day is able to provide, however well paid?
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Pete
You say you “love a good debate” yet whenever anybody points out how ridiculous your posts are you start bleating about being “abused”, as opposed to attempting to justify your original comments.
Thank goodness only 220 voted for you at the last election, not only did the electorate spare the public from your sitting in the States, they also spared you 4 years of “abuse” as you would have come up against far stronger opposition than you do on this site!
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Pete – My true colours comment was to illustrate that, in my opinion, I feel that your views, as depicted through your posts, are ridiculously idealogical and that you seem to live in a dream world where progress should never take place. Fortunately for the island, only 220 voters share the same views.
If HSSD were to keep the NSPCC centre open, it would be using public funds, revenue gained from taxes, withouth finance, there would be no taxes to pay for basic care, let alone luxuries like that. You can not have your cake, and then eat it.
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Pete Burtenshaw
Of course you can give your opinion, but expect to get shot down if you shoot from the hip with unresearched “facts” which bear no resemblance to reality. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Forget politics – you clearly aren’t thick-skinned enough to survive in those shark-infested waters.
VQ
100% agree with you.
Scarlett
I wouldn’t disagree with much of what you say there either. There are far too many “soft options” available these days for students, both in choice of exams and taking the easy way into well-paid employment (although the latter is now getting harder). But the education system, plus the available exam choices, is simply not preparing them for the real world. I know numerous other people who “failed” their 11-plus and have gone on to have very successful careers, indeed far more successful than those who passed the 11-plus in their peer group. If the child has the right attitude and the right home environment, with supportive parents, then “failing” the 11-plus is not the big issue that many of its critics claim it to be.
I would like to follow up on Paul’s comment yesterday (2.38pm) about dyslexia. I agree totally that this can be a huge factor in the progression or non-progression (if not detected) of children who, in days gone by, would have been either written off by the education system. Guernsey now seems to be far better at identifying dyslexia at an early age and I have been astonished at the high number of children who have been diagnosed as being dyslexic and who have been able to be taught appropriately and managed to go on to achieve at a very high level in school and work thereafter. 20 years ago they would have simply been deemed to be lazy, dim or unruly, and handed a massive disadvantage in life. Those on the island who are involved with identifying and treating dyslexia should be rightly proud of what they are achieving for those children, and certainly not taken for granted.
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Nothing to explain Peter. Seen enough people pass through this island that either a) contribute or b) don’t. Thankfully more of the former than the latter.
If you don’t like the cut and thrust of forums, you’ll have hated politics.
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Pete Burtenshaw – I agree with the other comments here: if you can’t take personal insult then politics should not be your chosen career. That’s not to say that I condone personal abuse – I don’t – however sadly that’s part and parcel of political life, and we only see the part of it. Deputy Dave Jones posted an excellent piece about the realities of political life earlier this year. I don’t agree with everything he says policy wise, but you have to respect his experience of the local political arena.
Good post Scarlett. Having worked in local finance for over a decade, my observations are that a lot of the back office functions are so utterly boring that the very thought of spending 30 years in that area is demoralising! Unless you get into management or work in a service area (e.g. IT, HR, Compliance) – both of which are limited – I can see why many young people look for work elsewhere
That said, I do think that a more realistic view of employment should be taught to young people. We’d all love a career doing what we love however in the real world that’s not always possible. Nobody has a “right” to work in the area they love, otherwise I’d be chief curry taster in a top Indian restaurant earning a six-figure salary; either that or playing for Man Utd! ;-)
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