Amie plans a march for the sirens
Thursday 11th February 2010, 11:30AM GMT.
Outside Frossard House with her petition is Amie Gillott, who is organising a Save Our Sirens march after which the list of names will be presented to the Home minister. (Picture by Tom Tardif, 0915889)
A LOCALwoman is organising a protest march and petition against plans to get rid of the island’s early warning sirens.
Amie Gillott wants people to march from La Salerie car park to Frossard House on Sunday 21 February to present a petition to Home minister Geoff Mahy.
The taxi driver said she decided to take action after seeing that nearly 3,000 people had joined Facebook groups to protest about the issue.
‘It’s not only the nostalgia – they have been used for over 30 years on Liberation Day – but they haven’t come up with a decent suggestion for another early-warning system.’
The Home Department announced last month that the 14 sirens were no longer fit for purpose and would cost too much to replace. In an emergency, the department proposes texting people and releasing warnings via the media.
Mrs Gillott was angry there had been no public consultation. ‘What I don’t understand is why they can make a decision without the public getting a say. They are elected to make decisions on our behalf, then they don’t listen to us.’
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I can’t believe how many sad people there are out there, clamoring to spend 100s of 1000s on maintaining a pile of junk that has NEVER, EVER been of any use whatsoever in an emergency of any description – and never will be of any practical use – and at a time when essential front line services are having to be cut because of a lack of States funding.
And don’t give me any of this ‘If they scrap the incinerator we’ll have money for the sirens’ nonsense. A waste of taxpayers’ money is a waste of money is a waste of money is a waste of money.
The Home Department must stand firm and not give in to this nutty populist campaign.
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“What I don’t understand is why they can make a decision without the public getting a say. They are elected to make decisions on our behalf, then they don’t listen to us.”
You’ve answered your own question – they are elected to make decisions on our behalf. That is democracy. If they had to take a poll of public opinion before making a decision we would never get anywhere.
And as the people objecting to the removal of this “vital early warning system” have failed to say how it actually is supposed to help in the event of an emergency, I would suggest that listening to that portion of the public would be a waste of time.
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I fail to see an adequate replacement being proposed. An audiable warning “siren” system, is the universally understood emergency warning. When I heard the sirens as a kid, I was told “they were used to warn people of air raids, and dangers. I now know, that if I ever hear an air-siren it means danger is about, if I were to hear a siren now, I would turn on the radio or television to see if anything is happening. However, if I an relaxing in my garden for most of my day off, how an I to know if their is a danger? You cannot simply say “it has never been used, it doesn’t justify maintenance or replacement” to that I say. Have you ever had a house fire, and do you have smoke alarms? Or Perhaps your smoke alarm texts you, or broadcasts an FM / VHF signal to your television at 1 am in the morning.
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I hate these constant references to Facebook groups. People will join anything on Facebook, and this is supposed to be a ‘protest’? We shall see how many of the 3000 members turn out on Sunday.
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Bravo Dean – I agree with you completely. I treat Facebook groups in the same way as petitions. Unless someone can give a reasoned opinion why they have signed/joined then it’s utterly worthless.
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Spot on Martino – move on from this pointless campaign. Guernsey has far more pressing issues to deal with than this.
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If Amie has got that much spare time on her hands, can she please do something useful and give advice on how to de-clutter a busy life to make time for pointless Facebook ‘protests’. I’m sure people would actually find that useful.
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We have sirens fitted to every emergency vehicle in Guernsey, if we want to wake the population up in a hurry and there are several of them, Amie will still hear one on Liberation day and on Remembrance Sunday as the one at the top of Victoria Tower will be maintained and preserved for these occasions. My sympathy is with the Home Department that cannot justify the continued maintenance of the other 13 sirens left at a cost of about 18k each, It is not just the electric motors and the fluted fins, it is the steel angle iron or H section mounts, replacing all the fixing bolts, labour, scaffolding the works and for what? Nothing lasts forever, regardless of how well maintained it has been. Amie said this morning that she would not hear the town siren up in the higher parishes, well even if she heard a siren and she ran out of her house, then what? If it is an island emergency the last thing the emergency services want is everyone taking to their cars trying to find out what’s going on by clogging up the roads so those emergency vehicles that need to get about are hampered by traffic, the reasons the Home department together with the emergency powers group have to consider are endless. If it is a major emergency affecting the whole island, everyone will know soon enough.
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Dave Jones
I agree, we’ll all know soon enough in the event of anything major happening.
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TL…..where do you get your understanding of ‘Democracy” from. You say ‘democracy’ is where the population elects ‘leaders’ to make decisions on the populations behalf without input from the population. Not so! ‘Democracy’ is where we ALL take part in the decision making. Decisions made by the ruling elite without input from the population such as you are suggesting and such as Hitlers rule was, are dictatorships. Perhaps that is how you would prefer it?
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Why not use an even older traditional warning. Church bells. There are churches all over the island and we would probably take alarm from a steady clang, clang, clang rather than the usual more melodious peals.
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Dave, hav you got a siren on you’re digger???
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Mr jones, thank’s for telling me that all
emergency vehicles have sirens… I never
knew that!!!!!!!!!!
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Dean
Approx none of the 3,000 would be my guess.
Many are probably ‘virtual’ (ie don’t exist and made up by the site owners to draw in more sheep) whilst those who are real will be too ‘busy’ to get out of doors and have the courage of their purported (but non-existent) convictions. Their time will be ‘better’ spent signing up to the next brain rotting fad – a Campaign to outlaw proper grammar or the like.
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Martino, get your facts right mate.
“I have worked on the sirens in the past, and they are not the origanal sirens from 37, they are at most 30 yrs old. the surface rust is due to the motors not being protected with alloy coverings that can be purchased. I last worked on the sirens about 7 yrs ago and they are perfectly ok and with a lick of paint and some lubricant would last another 30 yrs.
I can tell you now it will cost a huge amount of money to safely remove them all at once which by the time this has been done, new sirens could have been installed at less.
Lets not loose another unique guernsey tradition because of money. keep them working until money has been raised to upgrade them and if one by one they brake down at least we have a bit of time to afford new ones”
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GG you haven’t given a single decent reason why these things should be kept. I take the word of the Home Department – and Dave Jones in this thread – above yours. The fact that I have got right is that we have wasted good money on them in the past and that we can no longer justify doing this.
Just because you slapped the odd coat of paint on them once or twice and you have since developed some sort of weird affection for them doesn’t make you an expert – either on their effectiveness or cost effectiveness.
As for being a unique Guernsey tradition that’s just laughable. Beanjar, gache, the Viaer Marchi, Guernesiaise yes, but a bunch of 70 year old, falling apart sirens, made in England, and responsible for a horrible wailing noise redolent of the blitz and the nuclear threat of the cold war? That’s one ‘tradition’ we can all do without.
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Expat80 – I think you need to go back to school.
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Would it not be more productive for Amie to organise some sort of fund raising with her Facebook Group in order to keep the sirens? That way everybody wins, the people who want them kept can do something about it and the States could not justify removing them on the grounds of cost. Of course, the people raising the funds would have to ‘sign up’ long-term. Let see how serious they are?
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I will be sad if they go. I don’t live in Guernsey anymore but their haunting wails of the sirens on Liberation Day was one of the most poignant sounds of the day and gave me pause to reflect on those who lived through and those that gave their lives during the second world war. I do understand that they are not there to simply mark the passing of each year in that way, but still, it will be a sad moment for me.
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Sorry Martino, copied that from the previous news. “http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/01/26/final-warning/” from Donker.
Why shouldn’t they be kept? They’re a piece of Guernsey history, local to us, if all they need is a lick of paint and some lubrication, I see no trouble in keeping them, it would be MORE hassle to take them down!
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Bravo GG well said.
I for one WILL be on this march as I feel that they serve as reminder to all of what tragic events have happened in the past.You’d be surprised at what facebook groups can accomplish, and I’m not just talking about getting songs to the number one slot at christmas either.
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Again well written Martino….and to all those who want to play the “tradition” card, I would like to point out that my late grandmother – a veteran of the Blitz – found the sirens frightening as they reminded her all too well of what was lost in the Second World War. Perhaps there are other veterans who feel the same?
There are far better ways to commemorate those days than scaring the wits out of people who actually were there.
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Yes Paul Le Page my father in law also hated the noise of these damn sirens he fought in the second world war, he never spoke about the war and did not even like to celebrate Liberation day. Would we even know what to do if they went off in the depth of the night anyway, there are no processes put in place, what the hell do we do, if I woke up in the night and told my husband the sirens were going off, he would probably turn over and say, ” dont be so daft”, go back to sleep”.
I can think of better ways to spend the money, especially when I have just heard on the radio that there is not enough money to run all the high dependacy beds at the PEH, a lady had her operation cancelled to have a tumour removed because there were not enough beds available and we want to pay for the sirens, oh please.
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My mother says the same things ie everytime she hears those things they just remind her of the tragic days and running to the underground or sheltering under the table. If people need a reminder of the past then there are plenty of things over here to remind them and plenty of books to.
There`s nothing traditional about hearing a siren and haveing to run for your life?.
I doubt there will be many on the march.
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Can someone please remind me what we are supposed to do if we DID hear the sirens wail anyway?
I for one, am sure not going to leg it up to the nuclear bunker at the hospital – imagine spending doomsday with all the politicians and freeloaders who would no doubt be in there, barring more useful people from getting through the door!
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Sarnia expat – you could pray…..or swim across to the Barclay Castle and hide in their alleged shelter.
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Can anyone advise the rough numbers in attendance??? I assume that it wasnt too successful given the lack of coverage in the press???
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Auntie GP – not to mention the fact that it is this coming Sunday!
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I find it amazing that people are prepared to protest against the removal of sirens that are used once a year but will do nothing about the squalid conditions that guest workers are forced to reside in. So sirens are vital but profiteering by housing staff in conditions unfit for human beings is perfectly acceptable.
There are workers lured here by the offer of better wages, their flight paid and then the realization hits. They are offered a pittance of a wage and are forced to stay whilst they repay the cost of their flight that comes out of that wage. Therefore, they are forced to live in damp, rotting, and often insect infested accommodation repaying this debt until they can afford to go home or get a better job.
People and States members, stop wasting your time with petty matters. Stop wasting money on debating the same issues time and again and start prioritizing the exploitation of other human beings for profit and the cutting of hospital services.
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“People and States members, stop wasting your time with petty matters.” Well said Jessica Rabbit.
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Martino
Amie’s not sad, she just has a view and a passion for something. I predict, low turn out and no effect on the decison to scrap them.
Although possibly misplaced, there is nothing wrong with Islanders organising themselves to protest on various issues.
Jessica Rabbit, however, makes a very good point about our twisted sense of outrage.
Sirens – bad, slum landlords – good!!
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Jessica, what has this got to do with the sirens? Foreign workers must know that there’s a catch, if they don’t get free housing from the owners of the hotels, where are they going to live? Most of them don’t input into the island, just send it off home.
Why should the States of Guernsey put money into foreigners when the local population are already struggling with money shortages.
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Very, very spot on Jessica Rabbit.
Guernsey is a hole of petty minded ignorance led by banks that care for nothing but themselves.
The States do nothing but reflect stupidity and greed.
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Get off your high horse Neil.
I never said there was anything wrong with Amie organising her march.
I also never said that Amie, specifically, was/is ‘sad’.
What I did say was that anyone/everyone who wants to keep these rusting mini monstrosities for heritage reasons must be ‘sad’ and I stand by that opinion
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TL – so it is – whoops, still, probably be the same number attending next week as there were this sunday :-)
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This thread appears to have fallen victim to an infestation of off topic Oryctolagus cuniculus.
Its a pity that they are not up for the march, there could be upwards of 200 of them by Sunday
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Having visited Guernsey last September during Battle of Britain Airshow, I was humbled by the turnout and peoples patriotism. The people from Guernsey have a beautiful Island community and a lot of history! I think it bodes well that this young lady wants to uphold a part of her heritage for her family and the generations coming along. Well done Amie!
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Didi – trouble is – as mentioned previously in this thread, one persons humble patriosm is anothers frightful reminder of something they lived through and would rather not hear. Something that ought to be considered before any decision is made. Personally I would write to all surviving Guerns from the war and occupation and ask them about how they feel about the sirens. If they want them kept then so be it – if it frightens the be jeez out of them and want them gone – down they come – democracy at its best, why should those that didnt live through the occupation decide what happens when they have never suffered hearing them in real action?
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Out of interest, can anyone tell me how many times they were used during the war?
The only bombing of Guernsey that I have heard of was that carried out immediately prior to the invasion, and I assume that they were used then.
But were there threats against Guernsey before the invasion that caused them to be used?
I assume that there was no need for them to be used during the occupation (or if they were, they were used for the protection of the German occupiers, and are then not exactly part of our heritage).
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I still laugh at “The oldies won’t want them back!!”, if they don’t like them why have they been sitting on their backsides for the last 65 years and not “petitioning” to have them down?!
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GG-I should imagine its because they are not a generation whingers and whiners who like to get on their soap box at the poxiest thing and make a scene – they are a breed of roll the sleeves up and get on with it, a quality we could do with more of.
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GG
In order to answer that question, one needs to try to empathise with the older generation.
For starters, until the Cold War ended there was a perceived legitimate reason to have the sirens. One might debate the need of course (however I doubt many people in early 1940 seriously thought that Hitler would be that bothered about the Channel Islands) but, putting oneself in the shoes of a generation who had lived through a major war for a moment, the memories would have made for a lot more sensitivity than those of us who have never experienced war.
Also don’t forget that the older generation have lived through a lot more hardship than we have and will often just accept that they can’t have their own way all the time. Many of them were raised in a far more authoritarian society than we are used to, so wouldn’t question such things as openly. They also didn’t have the benefit of media such as the Internet to get their point across….
Finally, they probably had better things to do!
PS by the way I’m in my 30s :-)
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This isn’t making a scene, this is for keeping our heritage, something I imagine the older generation are very keen in keeping.
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GG
What do you mean if they dont like them? I mean they dont exactly fill everyone with joy and happiness everytime they go off do they? Do you wake up everyday waiting or hopeing to hear the wonderful sound they make?. Personally i`d rather listen to the birds sing :).
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GG – if it’s all about heritage, how about putting them in museums? I’m sure the Occupation Museum would like one, and Candie Museum could have one as well…job done.
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A whopping 40 people on the march – wow – where were the thousands that signed the petition on facebook etc??? I really hope this ridiculous issue does not waste any more time or resources when there are real issues that need to be sorted.
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If you’re right Auntie GP that is excellent news. It shows what most of us suspected that hardly anyone really cares about this at all. I hope it is dropped forthwith.
It also proves that Facebook protests and petitions should not be taken as accurate indicators of public opinion by the States. They are far too easy to sign or join. A march on the other hand is a more accurate yardstick of feeling as it actually requires some effort to attend.
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