Island has been damaged by Suez withdrawal – requete
Friday 19th March 2010, 11:30AM GMT.
KEY players in the waste debate were silent this morning as a controversial requete aimed at restoring the £93m. incinerator project was released.
The requete, led by Deputy Tony Spruce (pictured), has been signed by nine deputies, including Home minister Geoff Mahy.
Islanders who had campaigned against the incinerator believed the matter had come to an end when it was voted out by 21 votes to 20 in February.
An Environment Department submission in the Billet d’Etat published today reiterated the history of the Kuttelwascher requete debate, but minister Peter Sirett would not comment directly on the proposals or their desirability.
The requete argues that the decision to scrap the Suez Environnement incinerator project at a late stage in the procurement process was damaging to the island on a number of levels.
- Read the full story in the Guernsey Press. See below for subscription details.
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
This reminds of the ongoing saga of US health care. Regardless of how unpopular it is, and losing the vote under normal constitutional methods, the administration are determined to ram it through regardless. I wonder if they’ll resort to the reconciliation process to pass the incinerator.
Report abuse
“The requete argues that the decision to scrap the Suez Environnement incinerator project at a late stage in the procurement process was damaging to the island on a number of levels.”
But having another requete, against a previous requete doesn’t damage us at all?
Report abuse
I have just been browsing ‘Suez’ and found this 1 of many informative sites.
http://www.spinprofiles.org/index.php/SUEZ
Interesting reading,
Hope to see lots of people on the steps next Wednesday morning.
Report abuse
Perhaps the question might be asked:
“What’s in it for me-”?
Report abuse
Good spot Jill
The section headed Political Ambivalence,Failure and Corruption is a must read
Excellent letter in the Press today from Deputy
Dudley-Owen
Any chance of moving to the Vale Dud ?
Report abuse
Interesting letter in the Billet from Deputy Peter Sirett to the Chief minister re the voting or non voting by environment at the last States meeting. He states that every member of environment knew exactly where they stood on voting and the choice to abstain was entirely their own choice, so i wonder what this clarity that Deputy Spruce is looking for involves, because they could just as easily abstain again from voting on this current requete.Does that mean he would be back again next month??
I’m sure it will be a good turn out in force on Wednesday at the Royal Court.
Report abuse
I still don’t understand how the Environment department wouldn’t have to abstain again (assuming it was the correct legal course of action in the first place).
If reinstating Suez was successful then surely it will be the same members that will be processing the planning application? Surely any level of bias would be exactly the same? The only thing that has changed is a planning application has been removed, if successful it gets put back in again?
Am I missing something ?
Report abuse
I think the reason they didn`t vote was because they felt the suez plant would have gone through without them and to avoid any conflict, they abstained.
It would have been accepted as a “democratic vote” and i`m sure Mr Spruce and his followers would have been happy with the “democratic” result if suez had gone through.
But it didn`t go the way they (spruce and co) wanted, and it suddenly became an “undemocratic vote”.
This is nothing at all about the will of the states or the public and all about his arrogance and blinkered approach to waste, to which he is certainly no expert.
Report abuse
Jamie:
No…. I don’t think you have missed anything, other than that some of the Environment Dept. might decide to vote in the debate knowing that they will not be able to participate in the planning enquiry. I think that if that happened, it would look like bad governance because that important decision would then rest with unelected civil servants. Because of this, I think that at least 3 of the Environment Dept won’t vote so that there will be 3 available for planning.
Hopefully this will all be academic because the requete will get thrown out on Wednesday as our Deputies vote to confirm the unity they demonstrated in the 38-2 vote on the Kuttlewascher requete of 26th Feb.
Report abuse
Jamie….perhaps we should all be asking why is Deputy Spruce and co. reacting so aggresively to Suez losing their contract. Also why is Deputy Flouquet so quiet after promising full support to not using Suez. Puppetmaster ????
Report abuse
I think we can be sure Flouquet will be edgeing them on from where we cant see. I think he`s playing both sides?
Yes indeed the puppetmaster.
Report abuse
Paul
Indeed – there are lots of things which don’t add up and have never added up about this project from the word go.
Report abuse
I think a reasonable question to ask each and every Deputy should be ‘Have you ever accepted any financial inducement from any supplier of goods to the States of Guernsey including paid travel or hospitality any form.’
Not unreasonable as all employees of Councils and Government depts in the UK.
Maybe the Press could ask, I certainly will come next election time.
Report abuse
David
There’s a few more things in the pipeline which somebody will need to add up in the near future …
Incinerator 93M
Airport 81M
Beaucamps 25M ???
Harbour overspend 12M ??
Compensation to Jersey & UK fishermen over 12 mile limit error £100,000 ??
No doubt there are others
Sewage Treatment £X millions
Report abuse
This is sounding like a voting process in the European Parliament, where anything that fails is simply brought back again, and again until people are so sick of it that they allow it through.
Whilst no member of the Environment Dept. can vote because of their direct conflict of interest, are there any other undisclosed conflicts, though? As in the past, we’ll never know, but it doesn’t smell too good…
In the recent past Guernsey was synonymous with miss-conceived projects being pushed through the States at great public cost. Some of these were tendering processes where it was obvious that the States were hopelessly out-negotiated. And out of their depth.
Others were projects that were simply not needed, but a case had been worked up for them by strong minded politicians who would not allow for the failure of ‘their’ project, even if it was obviously no longer in the public interest. Whether their determination was so strong because of ego or pecuniary reward, we are unlikely to know.
As I’ve said before, without the openness, accountability and transparency that this Island so needs, and without all us Islanders demanding it, we will suffer the same again and again.
Report abuse
bun fight at the…… oops sorry wrong canal!!
Report abuse
Paul
A good question but I wouldn’t ask about financial inducement. Too easy to deny. I would be asking about any financial benefit in kind, or value from Suez or anyone on behalf of Suez and its proposals.
Report abuse
So Geoff Mahy thinks that Guernsey pulling out of the Suez contract was damaging for the island’s world wide reputation. this may be so among incinerator builders, but unlikely to have done us any harm among the rest of the world. On Friday I was in London at an international conference exploring the links between health and climate change. A surprising number of the delegates, scientists and health service professionals are well aware of Guernsey’s issue, and quite apart from our reputation being harmed by recent events, the overall feeling is one of admiration.
Report abuse
Isn`t it strange that most of the people claiming throwing out suez will damage our reputation while most business leaders claim it wont?
I think i know know who i`d rather believe.
If part of their case for keeping suez is our reputation then i think they need to find another job as the people of Guernsy come before what some multi-nats might or might not think.
The Suez reputation doesn`t seem to have lost any favour with Mr Spruce and some other deputies has it?.
And were trying to do business with China.
You couldn`t make it up?.
Report abuse
Our reputation?? Don’t make me laugh. I suspect that currently our reputation amongst multinational firms is that we’re a bunch of numpties who are useless at negotiating contracts and who are quite happy to suffer huge overspends. How can it get much worse than that??
Report abuse
Some great and very valid points here! Environment Deputies didn’t have to take the advice they were given over the planning process, as is their democratic right they ‘chose’ to abstain.
How on earth can we carry on doing business with a company that has just been fined a massive amount for ‘anti-competition’ practices!!
Methinks Mr Spruce doth protest too much – he should take his letter in the Press last Thursday to The Edinburgh Festival, it would win the comedy award by miles. Mr Flouquet is very noticeable by his absence and yes Paul, when you look closely at Mr Spruce you can see the strings!
I’ve just heard Jane Stevens moaning about Deputies not turning up to the Suez presentation today – surely they all know what Suez has to offer by now and if not, why not?
I agree with Deputy DeLisle – once the requete has been thrown out this week, the PSD team should be sacked and replaced with people who have half a clue about what they are doing. Come on Deputies, do the right thing for once – kick the requte, Suez, their incinerator and the likes of Mr Spruce and Mr Flouquet as far away from Guernsey as possible!!!
Report abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_arc_waste_disposal
Report abuse
Malcolm Baines (Barnes?)
Your post says it all. The Edinburgh comment is a cracker.
The requete itself would win the fiction category.
Report abuse
I agree with Ray (March 19th comment) – as a Western Parishes voter, could Dep Dudley Owen PLEASE consider moving to the Vale!!!
And Malcolm Baines post did indeed say it all. All wrong that is!
First of all, lots of global companies are always being sued or accused of corruption. Try looking at Shell or BP or HSBC and corruption. People try it on all over the place.
Second, De Lisle shows his utter lack of undertanding. Dep Spruce brings a requete in his capacity not as a PSD member, but as a deputy. Therefore PSD have no say in whether he proceeded with it. So, why the heck should PSD resign if this vote is lost? It’s not their vote.
Loons, all.
Report abuse
So that makes corruption OK does it Billy? The fact that all big companies do it.
Strange morality.
Report abuse
Sorry Billy the Fish, we have quite enough able deputies in the Vale and do not need Deputy Dudley Owen down here, thanks anyway.But if she could find a large hole in the western parishes us valeites would be quite pleased!!!!!
Report abuse
billythefish
Are you promoting corruption or just dont mind going along with it as long as you (we) benifit?.
What about those who suffer because of it? which many do.
Will you be looking to vote in some corrupt poloticians next time round so they can line their pockets? all in the name of progress eh billy.
Report abuse