Hundreds of protesters fight burner-back bid
Wednesday 24th March 2010, 2:30PM GMT.
Deputies Tony Spruce and Carol Steere walk past protesters on their way to the States chamber this morning. (Picture by Peter Frankland.)
HUNDREDS of anti-incinerator protesters gathered on the steps of the Royal Court this morning.
An hour before the States meeting was due to start, a crowd including young mums, pensioners and businessmen stood with placards and called out and jeered some deputies as they walked past.
Police stood behind a barrier that protected States members from the largely polite protest.
Campaigner Rupert Dorey was pleased with the turnout and thought it might sway deputies to vote against Deputy Tony Spruce’s requete to reinstate the Suez energy-from-waste plant.
At 9am, the protesters began singing, ‘We don’t want incineration.’
Deputy Spruce received the largest jeers as he walked into the Royal Court House with Deputy Carol Steere.
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Anyone just received their commercial demands for TRP. Staggering increase without any forewarning, is this another way of subsidizing the states waste of money on abortive projects and inefficiencies.
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Politicians please bin the Suez project, it should have been recognised as a non starter from day dot, research your subject prior to commitment!
I saw in the press this week that one deputy said it was “the same as lighting bonfires”, for a start bonfires do not cost £93m. You tend to only burn items that burn rather than simply anything wet or dry to then have to add diesel to force it to burn, then pay Suez another £180m over the life of the incinerator to dispose of the ash to boot! Ignoring the commercial levels of fumes and smoke that will be generated in a concentrated area.
Finally, incineration has been banned in parts of the USA since 1995; maybe I am being a bit short sighted, surely it is only a matter of time before this ban extends to other parts of the world.
Facts:-
Total cost just shy of £300m over 25 years, assuming a ban doesn’t force a shut down beforehand, then what!
Our waste is reducing continuously with the intervention of more intelligent packaging and recycling options, we cannot easily downscale an incinerator.
We do not have enough of the correct type of combustible waste to keep an incinerator burning. Starting and stopping is the most ineffective way to run an incinerator, they need to run 24/7.
The power generated is completely insignificant and does not make it a viable proposition.
Conclusion:-
We have about five years of landfill left, why not take a step back, Jersey is happy to take our waste, they need our waste to make their incinerator run efficiently. You can buy a lot of return boat trips full of waste to Jersey for £93m or £300m!
There is a better way and Guernsey can make significant steps to being a leading light, by setting up a well thought out and executed waste strategy.
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Spot on Chris. The solution is on the horizon literaly…the Jerseys incinerator. If they need waste to keep it going then why not send it to them. As you say, a few boat trips will not cost anywhere near the estimated £93 million.
In the meantime up the recycling. I am sure that people would not mind a few pounds a year to recycle rubbish as opposed to the incinerator.
The Deputies seem to be a complete waste of space. Dont do as I do do as I say.
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Jersey in Peril from toxic ash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9kvsgCC5-g
Davey
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Unbelievable !
Just consider the following scenarios: Jersey – their NIMBY’s decide they don’t want our waste thank you very much, or if it is accepted we now have a monopoly situation where I have no doubt as their “Black Hole” grows – charges for acting as our dustbin will rocket and we will have no option but pay as we will have no alternative readily available – or the EU ban the transport of waste by sea, quite likely I would submit.
Sewage – again the EU decide to ban the dumping of raw sewage into the sea – Suez are gone so how much will we have to pay to have a land based treatment plant – and I wonder just how many companies would even tender for a State’s contract considering their (The States) track record.
100% recycling – look at the UK – micro chips in waste bins, dozens of different coloured containers – Dep Mcnulty Bauer identified 14 different waste cycles and with our own “Black Hole” everything will be charged for so quite obviously there will be an explosion of fly-tipping and of course many more bonfires burning anything combustable – which for the benefit of the pseudo scientists who are so ready to quote chapter and verse at us, will mean an increase in toxic smoke and fumes, as a lot of the fuel will be plastic.
I sometimes despair for the Island and it’s people.
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Hugo, calm down.
Firstly Jersey and Guernsey as far as I am aware are not part of the EU therefore overall are able to make own rules.
There are several alternatives to the Suez incinerator model. Smaller cheaper and more efficient and technology is moving very quickly.
Regarding tendering if there is muck there is money, what is really important is to have the right knowledge ( the States committee ) and specs for Guernsey.Not be sold any old dog.
Jersey charges, thats an aukward one, but Jersey needs the money ( with its lack of spending control ) more than Guernsey.
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Hugo
I lost interest at “we will have no alternative readily available”
Try doing some research yourself
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Hugo
Your whole post is “rubbish”.
Talk about scare mongering eh.
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Hugo,
Yours is the only rational post so far. Too many people here think they can make up the rules as they go along and that everyone outside Guernsey can just get raffled. In order to get it to Jersey, Guersey’s waste will have to travel across international waters and so we’ll have to abide by international law. The States (and Jersey’s States) will have to consult with and get the approval of the EU to whatever is proposed (leaving aside the risk that Jersey might choose to stop taking our waste or charge a fortune for doing so). In the absence of an alternative waste disposal option, Guernsey will have NO bargaining position. Jersey must be delighted. So now’s the time to sell your house in St Sampsons before droves of rubbish trucks start arriving to unload waste at the harbour. Mmmm. That’ll smell right tasty come summer time and the seagulls will love it too.
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Davey West -do you seriously believe that if the EU ban anything the CI can and will ignore such bans?
bcb – that your level of argument – be more impressed if you disproved the possible scenarios – try looking up what scenario means.
Dave Haslam – I bow to your obvious (or at least self claimed experience) – Please identify PROVEN tested and tried alternatives. You might consider the water desalination plant the STATES installed – that was state of the art at the time and what happened..!
All very bombastic and hectoring – you lot are cebrating so please identify the savings and the procedures we will be following no doubt backed up by legislation and fines ala UK.
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Well hugo, why should I have to do your research for you?? Some simple internet searching will show you at least 2 PROVEN tried and tested alternatives already operating in other places.
Although I will go to the lengh of identifing a saving for you
260M-11M = 249Million saved by not going with Suez
And thats not even taking into consideration failures after the paltry “warranty” had expired. And given the numerous links to anti-suez sights on here, we could be pretty sure there would have been many costly failures.
Good enough for you??
Derek, erm, since when did questioning our states become making up the rules, stop overreacting, the states just bowed to public pressure, no-one held a gun to their heads.
And as for the “everyone outside guernsey….” comment, so are you saying that you were happy for Guernsey to be ripped off in such an obvious manner by this “benevolent” multi national corporation??
Jersey isnt the only option either, but I imagine in your haste to type something derogatory about this victory you seem to have missed that.
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hugo towers
Not an argument just an opinion.
Too thick to look up that word, sorry!
You really dont see anything positive from the result do you?. doom and gloom.
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Derek,
Just remind me, how was the fly ash going to get to France?
Hugo.
Please explain why none of the following methods would work in Guernsey, besides working perfectly well worldwde.
Source separation
Post reception separation
Gasification
Pyrolysis
Anaerobic Digestion
Micro incineration
Autoclaving
There are many others but those are the main contenders and should be enough for you to be going on with, researching to the extent that you obviously researched mass burn.
Don’t asess everything as a single point fully comingled single system method.
You might surprise yourself.
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bcb – uncalled for comment so apologies. I don’t see anything positive because no-one has said what is going to happen. There is much delight from the ABS brigade (Anything but Suez) but no facts and figures about what the experts (Dave Haslam et al) will say should happen – are we going to get a treatment plant which from the comments of some probably won’t be needed because there won’t be any waste – or doesn’t 100% recycling mean that – a great anti-suez campaign but no-one has detailed any plans.
How do you propose to deal with the fly tipping and increase in bonfires? Or won’t this happen.
re the comment about doing my own research – sorry thought that was why my taxes pay for the experts employed by the States to do just that. It’s easy to destroy not so easy to rebuild – and I live in the Vale and have just been to the tip to recycle all the bits and bobs and the atmosphere and ambience there is appalling – it is truly horrible and it hasn’t even reached road level.
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So Hugo
In one post you are asking me to provide info for you, in your next post you refuse to do any research yourself because now you say the states should have done it for you??
You are happy to criticise, but your points are based on conjecture, hearsay and a complete knee jerk panic reaction to the normal order of service being changed.
I understand that some people are afraid of change, but its precisely that kind of attitude that has allowed the states to get away with chronic mismanagement for years. You may have been happy for that to continue, I, (and now clearly most of the island also), am not.
Scott Ogier is now tasked with solving this issue, he has a number of options available to him, Total Waste, The Autoclave and the minimise waste drive to name just 3.
The difference between Scott and the previous brigade tasked with finding a solution is that he appears to be open minded towards all solutions and not hell bent on incineration, which is the reason why we are still in quandry.
Also I never professed to be an expert, however all the genuine experts (and in no way am I including any of the PSD civvies who came up with Suez) have said conclusively, that incineration (and the Suez plant in particular)is not suitable for Guernsey.
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“Also I never professed to be an expert, however all the genuine experts (and in no way am I including any of the PSD civvies who came up with Suez) have said conclusively, that incineration (and the Suez plant in particular)is not suitable for Guernsey.”
That says it all – “all the genuine experts” – you have decided on the expertise even though you profess not to be an expert – just a tad selective I would submit.
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Hugo
Not being selective at all, but I have an IQ of over 150, so I can tell the difference between genuine facts, and spin.
Do some research, you will see that the right decision was made.
For someone throwing around barbs, you appear to know remarkably little about the subject matter, methinks you are annoyed about the way the result was acheived rather than the result itself.
If you continue to dogmatically follow the elected few without getting an informed opinion of your own, then dont complain when people that do bother to dig under the surface find something they dont like.
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wots this got to do wiv I.Q. ?
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Nobody wants to risk deformed babies.
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