Spruce requete defeated
Wednesday 24th March 2010, 5:51PM GMT.
DEPUTIES have thrown out an attempt to reinstate the Suez incinerator.
They voted against a requete led by Deputy Tony Spruce (pictured) by 27 votes to 16 at just before 5.30pm.
Around 600 anti-incinerator protestors had met members when they entered the States this morning.
Deputy Spruce wanted the States to overturn its decision last month to ditch the £93m. plant.
Some of those in favour of his requete argued that the island had been left with no waste strategy.
The Public Services Department is in charge of finding another solution.
It will come back to the States shortly to find out what direction deputies now want to take.
How members voted on Deputy Tony Spruce’s requete to reinstate the Suez incinerator:
For: Deputies Carla McNulty Bauer, Roger Domaille, Allister Langlois, Jack Honeybill, Leon Gallienne, Peter Gillson, Jane Stephens, Geoff Mahy, Tony Spruce, Hunter Adam, Barry Paint, Michael Garrett, Shane Langlois, Michael Hadley and Alderney representatives Richard Willmott and Liz Bennett.
Total: 16
Against: Deputies Barry Brehaut, Jan Kuttelwascher, John Gollop, Rhoderick Matthews, Carol Steere, Martin Storey, Mike Collins, Scott Ogier, Ivan Rihoy, Lyndon Trott, Matt Fallaize, Mary Lowe, Graham Guille, Dave Jones, Andrew Le Lievre, Mark Dorey, Tom Le Pelley, Sean McManus, Bernard Flouquet, Al Brouard, David De Lisle, Marc Laine, Gloria Dudley-Owen, Charles Parkinson, Francis Quin, Mike O’Hara, Robert Sillars.
Total: 27
Abstained: Deputies Janine Le Sauvage and Jenny Tasker.
Not present for vote: Deputies Peter Sirett and Sam Maindonald.
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Gonna have another requete Spruce?
Great day for Guernsey, where have I heard that one before, oh yeah last month!
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Maybe, just to clarify that absolute clarity has been achieved, deputy Spruce should bring another requete next month to see if we really do want Suez
Well done to those who voted against the requete!
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now that the suez has been thrown out,,, again, give rodney brouards sceme a chance.
i dont think we have anything to loose,
going down this route.
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Next month Deputy Spruce and his gang bring another requete because only 43 out of 47 voted.
A just decision to bin a rubbish requete
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Yes well done to all those who voted against.
And well done to every single person who showed up this morning to show the true feeling of the Guernsey populace.
A true victory for the people and for common sense.
Now lets get into the right century and have a waste manegement strategy that reflects current technology.
Dont let the door hit you on the way out Suez.
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I think Spruce just signed his own retirement from the States card.
Go now not in 2 years time Sprucy..
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Great result! However the smarmy ‘I will keep my job at any costs’ antics of Flouquet was a disgrace. Is he really so arrogant that he thinks we can’t see through him. The whole PSD board have to go and be reselected with honest, committed people. The new initiative and the Guernsey people need a new PSD minister for this to work, not someone who is quietly waiting for his chance to get back at his enemies.
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Common sense and people power have prevailed!
I guess we should thank Tony Spruce for bringing this requete as it has given a clear indication about where we stand.
Clarity is what he wanted and clarity is what he got!
Hopefully we can now move forward swiftly up the constructive road to a modern, innovative and eco-friendly solution to our waste, treating it as a resource rather than a problem.
Nobody is under any illusion that this road will be long and problematic but at least we now know which general direction we are taking and I believe we have the right person to lead us in the form of Scott Ogier.
Time to celebrate this result but not rest on our laurels or be complacent!
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Tony Spruce said in his interview with Channel tv news how disappointed he was that Bernard Flouquet had changed his vote this time. Apparently Spruce thinks that democracy is about ignoring what has been a very clearly made message – that Guersney voters do not want an incinerator.
There have been 2 polls done, both of which have come up with a little under 80% against incineration. And yet Bernard Flouquet is at fault for changing his vote to go with what has been expressed by the voters?
MR SPRUCE YOU ARE IN THE WRONG JOB! However, I think whether he likes it or not he won’t find himself getting elected again.
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good result, i hear there is a company called panama that has an energy from hot air plant they could sell us.
how about we stop pumping poo into the sea next
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The decision has been made for better or for worse.
No more requetes, no more u-turns – time to get on with developing a Suez-free waste strategy.
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This is such a relief that enough Deputies voted the right way to quash any further Requettes that might have been put forward.
Now in order to move forward can we loose those such as Spruce and others so that there is a team of driven and capable members to lead the way forward.
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Well done to all those deputies that voted against the requete. Deputy Spruce should now step down. Now that the States know that the Guernsey public are against this prehistoric form of waste disposal i am sure that Deputy Ogier and his team will find the right solution
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Is this the best States EVER ?
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Does this mean that the States at last can make a final decision about something.
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Well Deputy Spruce have you got the message now ?
Let’s hope the States can come up with a good waste strategy by means of door to door collections for recycling. Our children and ourselves will now be able to breath a sigh of relief (with clean air !)
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Could someone explain in layman’s terms what we’re going to do instead of incinerating our waste.
Thanks.
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A good day in the states,some very good speeches.
Very glad of the outcome
Now we need to move forward and decide what we are going to do with the rubbish
It has cost taxpayers over 11 million so far
this could have been used on doorstep recycling .
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So lets be clear, we have no waste strategy and are just going to continue burying our head in the sand and our rubbish in the ground, oh yes guernsey real proud day!
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Fantastic. No time for recriminations – Spruce was within his right to bring it – and he afforded us a fantastic demonstration of people power and an emphatic victory.
I have faith in Scott Ogier to deliver a waste strategy for the 21st century (but why, oh why is it called the Waste Disposal Authority?)
We need to start helping him now. Reduce, re-use replair and recycle all you can while waiting for the new strategies to be implemented.
Well done Guernsey people – inside and outside the chamber.
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Mr Spruce and Mr Flouquet you ara a politically spent force. You chose to totally ignor the wishes of the people of Guernsey. Do the honorable thing and stand down as elected Deputies. You will never ever be trusted again and you epitimize everthing that is wrong with the States of Guernsey
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Newsflash! Having just considered how to express my feelings about what this ignorant, arrogant man’s next move should be, he’s just announced live on Radio Guernsey that he’s resigning, thus saving me the job.
He also referred to the peaceful anti protesters (just a small representation of the electorate whose wishes he’s blatantly ignored) as being ‘intimidating’ and that the now anti- Suez ‘changing horses mid stream’ Flouquet should resign as well.
How professional. Not. Handbags at 30 paces comes to mind.
Good riddance, Mr Spruce, next time you’re passing,…keep passing.
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AC
There are many different ways we could go, all cheaper, all environmentally friendly!
Download the excellence in waste report on the following link
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/03/23/excellence-in-waste/
Aunty GP
I’d suggest you download that report too, we are not burying our head, in fact we raised our head higher to see over the 93M accident waiting to happen to get something more suited to the island.
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People like Scarlett, now you’ve won can you stop spewing out all this bile and anger.
I’ve never wanted an incinerator but I admire Deputy Spruce for sticking to his guns every inch of the way, for going ahead with his requete despite anger and intimidation – yes intimidation – from people like you, and for having the courage to stand up against populist/popular opinion. He has shown his integrity and consistency and dignity throughout and, whatever the rights or wrongs of the issue in hand, we need more, not fewer, members of the States like him.
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what a STUPID decision, everyone has worked so hard and now those stupid protesters have one, just let the states do there job. spruce your a plank go and mind your own pointless buisness.
=)
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Aunty GP
Buring your head in the sand is when you do nothing. Havent you even noticed the amount of public reaction to get on board towards waste minimisation?.
Kirk Lanyon
Well put
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Denis – how right you are. Once again let us all go forward with a united effort to get behind our politicians and make this decision work. What a brilliant atmosphere amongst the campaigners yesterday. I found it very moving actually but I was pretty furious to hear us referred to as “Mob Rule” but perhaps one can put that behind us and look to the future
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I’m off to buy some extra bins from Stan Brouards and gona start recyling today,Yippee!
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Mr Flouquet is a disgrace. Should have resigned when he made the Obama joke. Now this, how ignorant/arrogant can one be? I don’t understand why he keeps getting voted back in. In two years time, people of the West, remember this day and leave that box next to his name blank or we will all have to put up with this rubbish for 4 more years. Please Mr Flouquet, do the honourable thing and step down. At least Deputy Spruce stuck to his guns, be he right or wrong, which is more than can be said for you.
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Martino – you took the words right off my fingers, as it were. Well said.
The last decision looked more like an accident. This was needed for clarity, and LT spoke rather well, I thought, on the courage shown by Spruce and the co-sponsors in the face of much misplaced hostility and intimidation.
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Hurrah. At last the Guernsey States have done something right … Let’s hope they now just get on with it.
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Tony Spruce once again used the term ‘environmentally acceptable solution’ about the Suez proposal, however we want an environmentally ‘friendly’ solution. This is where he and the rest of the armchair nine have not understood what the public’s opinion actually is.
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Martino, Bob. Get over yourselves, already.
This debacle wasn’t about who was doing the teas at the church fete, it’s was about our island and it’s future, so of course feelings were running high…
on both sides, judging by his toy throwing display on Radio Guernsey this morning. Very professional, I’m sure.
It is naive in the extreme and a gross underestimation of the people of this island to think that they would be anything BUT passionate about this…
what did you – he – think people were going to do? Smile politely and let him kiss their babies whilst he forced through a decision that would damage this island for generations to come?
Ridiculous.
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Martino – well put.
Deputy Spruce – Your requette was needed.
I personally was, and still am, uncomfortable with the decision making process of the states.
The Margin yesterday was big enough that the abstainers, those who could not vote would not have impacted the result – this should be a standard when accepting a vote
Spending Millions and Changing the Brief- All states members past and present have worked with this risk and ignored it and there are probably many more projects that this has occurred – Learn from the mistakes and change the process so that the Brief is agreed before you spend millions. This is standard in Industry.
The States – As a Management Consultant I will give you some free advice for multi million pound projects.
Do Nothing until you have a Brief approved by the states. Get sign off for Budget to identify solutions and tender process or infact to work out what the scope should include. If the states know the brief and scope was restricted to e.g. Incinerators and this has been approved then the decision of the states should only be, which one to approve.
If you do not learn from this embarrasement then you will once again (or probably currently are elsewhere) spend millions on research and tender process only for the states to say …lets go down a different direction
In my world I would be recommending Auditing your decision making process as if you do not learn then the next Waste Strategy could get the same treatment
AD Locke – Congratulations on waiting for today to recycle. Why are you buying extra bins? Wait for the New Strategy as they should be provided for free to every household as if you get the wrong colour bin you may have wasted your money
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Looks like the ‘Pours’ are well ahead of the ‘Contres’ on this blog too. Good.
Thanks should go to Deputy Jones for,as usual, telling it like it is early in the debate.
Hadley ought to apologise for likening the interest from voters to ‘mob rule ‘.He shouldn’t go though as he a tenacious little fighter when he perceives some wrongdoing within States departments
Geoff ‘Yes Man’ Mahy ought to head the Vale self preservation society.Having signed the requete he waited and waited until he saw which way the debate was going before declining the Bailiff’s invitation to speak
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Scarlett,
I think you overestimate the feelings on this matter and I certainly don’t appreciate people like yourself assuming that everyone else feels as strongly as you do. It may surprise you to know that in the current climate, the incinerator is not top of my list of priorities at the moment.
Rather than taking cheap shots at Tony Spruce, perhaps you can tell me what the viable alternative is?
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WhatisNext
“Wait for the New Strategy as they should be provided for free to every household as if you get the wrong colour bin you may have wasted your money”
If the states choose different colour bins to me I shall protest till I get them to change to the colours I want!
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When are we going to stop pumping our poop out into the sea? Where were all these glory seeking environmental “experts” then. I find it amazing how the people of guernsey are so fickle. We cant see the poop floating out to sea so we will ignore it. We can see a great big shiny incinerator so we will oppose it. Right or wrong Guernsey needs a waste strategy, 25 years this has been rumbling on for and I imagine it will be another decade before anything is actually working.
What also amazes me is all the people who comment on this website, lots of them spouting on about keeping guernsey specaial and we dont want to be part of the 21st century, we dont want modern architecture, sunday opening blah blah blah, yet it suits to be in the 21st century when it comes to blocking an incinerator. Make your mind up people, you know who you are.
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Nobby.
Trust me when I say, I am not and never will assume I am speaking on your behalf regarding anything of any import to the island, as you appear to have no interest in such matters.
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Definitely the right decision as far as I’m concerned but to give Tony Spruce his due he has his own opinion and bought it to the table (albeit again!). He has stood by his ideals and only time will tell if he was right or wrong in the long term. As for Bernard Flouquet though, what a disgrace! Turning on his own staff just to try and save a bit of face (well he does have 2) with apparently no warning. Tony has honourably stepped down from PSD but I’m sure I’m not the only one that thinks it’s time for Bernard to leave the States. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought he was going anyway because he didn’t get his way before (?).
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Auntie GP
Guernsey has a waste strategy……. Basically we take lots of money and we waste it !!
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Auntie GP
What convenient selective memory you have.
Must go well with your selective perception and awareness.
I can still remember Bill Bell being on the telly every night for weeks, telling us how pumping sewage into the sea was the best solution for Guernsey, environmentally friendly, can’t aford a treatment plant, blah blah blah.
Sound familiar to any recent events.
Don’t you remember people dressed as t**ds demonstrating outside custard castle etc etc.
So PSD are wrong about that now, although you agreed with them at the time, is that it?
Or are they right now but you did’nt think so until today?
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Nobby, I agree with you.
I would like to go further however, and propose that everyone stops taking pot shots, not only at the current victims, Deputies Spruce and Flouquet, but also at each and every one who takes part in these online threads.
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What is easily lost in these discussions is that even if incineration as a process was acceptable, the Suez proposal should still have been rejected on grounds that included cost, warranty (or absence of any realistic warranty) and the transference of risk from the contractor to the people of Guernsey.
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@Steve Le Chem
And people forget that we were sold the 30 million pound cable link to France on the basis that would provide us with cheap European electricity
That didn’t last long before we were back generating far more of our own electricity than we were told and had given away the fibre optic as part of the CW ‘deal’.
And people wonder why the tax payer is cynical?
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Steve – you seem to of misinterpreted my message. I am against pumping our poo into the sea, i do remember the campaigners, there were about 30 of them and most of them were surfers. I didnt see 600 people there saying it was wrong and environmentally bad to pump it into the sea? But now everyone has an environmental conscience becasue it is a ruddy great big shiny plant being offered up to be built.
For the record I have never said I was pro or anti Suez. I am neither, I am pro waste strategy so we can stop burying it in the landfill, and right or wrong, the Suez plant was a solution. All i hope now is that a new solution can be found, cheaply and quickly, maybe we could incorporate it in with a sewage treatment plant too?
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Perhaps now is the time to highlight the significant environmental and health risks of the proposed “alternatives” to incineration. It has been a problem that people believe that there is a better, safer, proven alternative. Landfill must be reduced and signifcant waste reduction has not been achieved anywhere to date. When we hear of proposals to wholesale compost or the use of anearobic digesters when there is no viable option for the disposal of outputs from these facilities that you wonder about the competancies of deputies making these proposals. As for the Vantage proposal, it has been condemed by most experts including Friends of the Earth. It must be time to follow “best practice” as used in Europe; i.e. a mix of technologies including incineration.
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I will be remembering the names of those populist deputies who betrayed their convictions, if any, to switch their votes as a result of a campaign of insult, threat and misinformation.
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I’m still puzzled now – if we’re saying no to an incinerator, and we’re running out of landfill, what do we do next?
It seems a bit odd to reject one proposal without there being an alternative proposal to switch to instead.
What happens if we like the alternative even less?
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Further to James’ comment above, how long does the landfill have left? And what are we going to do when it tops out?! Are we any further with the Jersey link? Lets face it, recycling isnt going to be done by everyone and we need to get rid of it somehow?
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Bart,
I believe the last estimtes from PSD were 2019 for the landfil to run out assuming our rate of disposal into it does not change.
I believe the intention would be to stabilise mont cuet and then grass over it (similar to what they did at Bordeaux).
Last i read of the Jersey export option was that Jersey states agreed to debate it in principal, so this would appear to be at very early stages.
Not everyone will recycle, this is correct. The success of an increased recycling campaign will largely rely an economic insentive to recycle (IMO). e.g. pay £5 per bag of mixed waste, this then funds the manual sorting of each mixed bag of waste and funds/subsidises normal recycling measures that Islanders can choose to use instead of paying large sums per mixed bag.
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Jamie, thanks for the clarification above. £5 per bag is pretty heavy though. And just to clarify as you seem to know what you are talking about:
I’ve seen all over the website that people have suggested similar alternatives such as having 2 bins, one for general (non-recyclable) waste and one for all recycling (all in one bin) This then gets taken to a depot and sorted. Is this not a smashing alternative as those that done recycle will have no alternative?
And if we want it for cheap. Get the citizens who have been sentenced to community service to sort it…
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James and Bart:
You are joining the discussion very late….. nothing wrong with that…. it’s just that the ‘alternatives’ have been discussed ad nauseaum! In brief, I for one, am hoping that the new waste strategy will be based on minimisation…. constantly reducing the problem to the absolute minimum. But also by turning the whole concept of waste being a ‘problem’ on its head and looking at the opportunities that it can give us. Lots of businesses and job opportunities in recycling.
Suez was a large technological solution that would have been placed at the end of the waste stream, and it would have ‘accommodated’ our present waste generation. A strategy based on minimisation would concentrate on getting rid of the ‘problem’. One thing is for certain though, and that is that we all need to recycle as much as possible….. on the right hand side of this link is a PDF file which tells you where you can recycle everything….. http://www.gov.gg/ccm/navigation/public-services/waste-disposal—recycling/
The link below is part of the talk given in Guernsey by Paul Connet and goes someway to explaining where we are at and what we should be doing. Having watched this part (2) you might be able to find the following part (3) on the next page. There are 6 of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqhkXdZHS0I&feature=related
The full powerpoint talk is here:
http://www.g-can.net/articles/detail.aspx?articleid=282
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