Campaign to start for gay civil partnerships
Friday 26th March 2010, 2:31PM GMT.
Supporters of moves to bring equality to the age of consent for homosexuals and heterosexuals gathered at Hojo’s last night. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 0947055)
A GAY rights campaigner will lead lobbying efforts to introduce civil partnerships in Guernsey.
States members yesterday voted unanimously to lower the homosexual age of consent to 16 to bring it into line with the law for heterosexuals.
But Tina Whittaker said the change was just a stepping stone towards equality.
‘The next step for a lot of people is civil partnerships. Also I don’t know how many services there are for teenagers. There needs to be services in place for anyone struggling with their sexuality.’
It took the 45 States members just an hour-and-a-half to approve the Home Department’s report to bring into line the age at which homosexuals and heterosexuals can legally have sex.
Members acknowledged the opinions voiced by various religious members of the community, but did not agree that Guernsey should be governed by them.
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Two good decisions in two days – maybe this States is not beyond redemption, and reassuring to know that we live in a democracy, not a theocracy.
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To be fair, these decisions are a no-brainer. Legalize it, everyone happy, apart from a few nuts, win.
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Im so plsd. I rly wnt 2 c this ting thru. Cmn gsy, gay ryts!
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Does that mean hetro and homo people can carry out whatever sex acts they want?cos., Id read somewhere hetros are not allowed to do some things homos can.In which case gat people have more rights than hetro when it comes to sex acts.
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If you want a civil partnership go to the UK, simples!
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Why? Why can’t you just be happy as you are? I mean really, civil partnerships are stupid and shouldn’t be allowed anyway, it’s not even the same as marriage.
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Bill.
You’re right, Civil Partnerships are not the same as marriage…they are a civil union between 2 people who love each other whatever their gender. A marriage is a union of two people usually created in a religious ceremony. I agree with Gay Civil Partnerships but think that Gay Marriage should be up to individual Churches to decide.
But answer me this?
Why should 2 men who have lived together for 20 years, one is in hospital and the staff there say that they can not update him on his partners condition because he is not Next of Kin or Family…..it happens!
Why should a woman who has been with her female partner for 40 years not be entitled to inheritance because she is not family and her partner did not make a will…..it happens!
Why should a common law or married couple enjoy pension rights if one dies and gay couples be cut off with no rights at all??
You may not agree with people being gay but it’s 2010, it happens and why should we live in a society that doesn’t recognise same sex relationships??
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Again @ Bill
On a completly shallow note……think of the benefits to the Islands economies….
The ‘Pink Pound’ is strong, gay people don’t generally have kids so think of the money that will be spent on Cilil Partnerships in the Islands…..The Islands could be marketed as a perfect place to hold them…..giving us a well needed boost to our tourism sectors.
Also, if 2 gay people are living as a couple and both claiming benefits, they are claiming as 2 individuals…..between them they get more than a Married or Common Law couple. If the States don’t recognise same sex relationships they should not be allowed to treat same sex couples as co-habiting for benefit purposes now should they??!!
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Ever heard of live and let live Bill? What’s the threat that makes you so opposed to civil partnerships? What harm is it to you when two people who are in love get together to seal their relationship with a ceremony that enables them to be recognised by the state as a pairing? Civil partnerships may be a little different but are no more stupid than marriage and the sooner we can have them over here the better.
GG you really are an ignorant person. Why don’t you move to Uganda or Iran or Saudi Arabia where your nasty, bigoted stance on this issue might be taken more seriously?
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why are they stupid bill? they cant be happy as they are because they’re treated like second class citizens “it’s not even the same as marriage.” thats what we’re trying to fix, and “If you want a civil partnership go to the UK” well it wouldn’t be recognised over here so what would be the point? they should be allowed to get married at home which is here guernsey. They deserve every right heterosexuals have. I agree flyingscot maybe there’s some hope for the states yet
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@ Bill – I’m not sure if that was a rhetorical question or not, but if you genuinely did want to know why, I believe the main reason is to be able to commit to someone that you love, in front of your friends, family and have the commitment recognised in the eyes of the law. I don’t think anyone is saying that CPs are the same as marriage, it’s just about being recognised as a committed couple in love. The same reasons any heterosexual couple would want to be joined together really.
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Here we go – we are now going to have explained to us why two people making a loving commitment to each other is going to bring the fall of western civilisation as we know it?
GG – why don’t you go to Iran?
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To Bill and GG, I suggest if you really don’t like the idea of civil partnerships then just avoid having one, simples!
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Why won’t I go to Iran, firstly because I’m not a huge fan on deserts.
I’m not sure if any of you have read the Bible, but I’m pretty sure civil partnerships are a no no.
@Lee “The ‘Pink Pound’ is strong, gay people don’t generally have kids so think of the money that will be spent on Cilil Partnerships in the Islands…..The Islands could be marketed as a perfect place to hold them…..giving us a well needed boost to our tourism sectors.”
Let’s hope our tourism doesn’t invite lots of gay people over here, we’ll be overrun with them!
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GG:
I had a go at reading the bible, and didn’t think the story line was very strong. A little bit ‘fantasy’ for me, and fiction has never been my thing. Are you seriously suggesting from your post that you consider it to be a set of rules?!
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@Dean, that’s not addressing the problem though.
It’s a bit like saying “if you don’t like murderers, avoid meeting one, simples!
Not addressing the problem in the slightest
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GG, i haven’t read the bible, i don’t care what it says about how i should live my life and in a secular society it should have no place in making the laws we live by.religion should be practiced by yourselves who are religious.don’t try it on the rest of us. as for the idea of churches being pulled down then sure why not, i hate the idea of paying for them with rates, i hate the idea that the dean of guernsey talks with authority and lets me know how i should live,i loathe the covering up of abuse by the catholics, i hate born agains for their self righteous pious nonesense about being violent/drug addict/tossers who suddenly hear god speaking to them as they have just finished kicking someones head in and then suddenly they travel around making speeches to the lost and dejected about god being the answer.i hate the suppression of science religion promotes, i’m with chris hitchens in thinking that religion poisons everything. but i don’t think my views should lead to you not being able to practice the religion you want, just don’t try to make it rule the rest of us.
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@ GG
‘Civil partnerships and a no no’ according to the bible….!
Lots of thigs are a ‘No No’according to the bible.
Eating shell fish.
Making contact with a woman who is on her period.
A woman wearing mans clothes.
Planting two different crops in one field.
Totching the skin of a dead pig.
People with disabilities arn’t allowd in church.
Women arn’t allowed to speak in church.
Working on Sundays is a no no (God says that if you do that, you should be put to death!)
Although the bible does allow us to own slaves, it also allows us to sell our children in to slavery.
Oh, and one last thing it allows (i’m not sure if it’s actually stated )but it allows siblings to have sex. If we all came from Adam and Eve, then surely their childen would have had to have sex with each other to carry on the human race….then their grandchilden would have be at it too…..gross!
Lets live by the laws of the bible then, it would certainly be a good way of getting rid of all us gays but tell me the GG :
How should we kill all those people who work on a Sunday? Should we stone them or should it be in a quicker a less barbaric manner?
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I’m not particularly religious, just saying there’s way more Christians than gays, so as we live in a democratic island, shouldn’t we adopt the majority’s view?
I’d much rather put money into the churches, a piece of historical relevance to us.
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GG – Then don’t start referencing the bible if you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I think you’ll find that the “Christians” you refer to are a minority and the majority of Christians actually have a Christian view on the matter.
Looking at your various posts you’re like a characture! I can only assume that you like winding people up and are trying to get a rise rather than actually having this bigoted xenophoic attitude. Once you’ve left school I would suggest a stint of travelling so you can experience the world outside Guernsey – sounds like you’re in great need of it.
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Hurrah nikkers, I absolutely agree with every word you say and it’s great to hear from a fellow fan of Christopher Hitchens. It’s a joy to read his polemical stuff against religious nuttery and also to watch him on Youtube as he wipes the floor with the ‘moral majority’ fundamentalist loonies on the other side of the pond. If you like Hitchens you’ll also like the late great irreligious American funnyman George Carlin. Check him out at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
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GG:
You seem to have totally missed the point of how our democracy works. We voted in our deputies, and our deputies voted for the change in the law! That is democracy working just the way it is designed to.
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Wow! Comparing ‘same sex marriage’ and murder, nice one Bill, you’re a clever guy!
Explain to me exactly what the problem is then?
Why does it bother you so much what other people do with their lives, and in particular what homosexuals do?
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So GG
If the majority of the Islands are Christian why not live under Christian Law and bring back the death penalty for:
Theft.
Working on a Sunday.
Non Virgin brides.
Adultery
A woman who does not cry out when being raped.
Cursing your parents.
Taking God’s name in vain.
All of these ‘Sins’ are punishable by death.
You say you’re not particularly religious yet you are happy to use the bible as a stick to beat the gay community with!
Also, you say that you would rather put money in to a churches……as apposed to what? A gay?
How do you put money in to a gay? In fact, don’t answer that one…..I think we all know the answer….lol
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Please dont forget gay adoption rights aswell we should become a shining example like Mykonos.
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Guernsey the next Mykonos / Gran Caneria / San Francisco……?
Can’t see it happening myself!
The worse that will happen is that Guernsey gets a reputation for bringings itself in to the 21st century……and that surely isn’t a bad thing is it??
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@Andy – excellent suggestion! I am sure there are children who would be better off in a stable, loving, same-sex household than a violent, abusive opposite-sex one.
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@Flyingscot, why would an adoptee but put in a abusive household? Personally I think the child would be bullied if put in a same-sex household, children use the term “gay” on a daily basis. Not in the same context, however.
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GG – children are bullied for many reasons. Being ginger for example. Or being poor, skin colour, nationality etc etc Children just don’t wake up one day thinking I’m going to start name calling it’s an action that’s based on their environment and what they’re taught from everyone around them, including their parents. Something that is strange to them or that they fear will automatically create a negative action from them, therefore the answer would be to educate. Not promote but educate. Big difference.
I think the emphasis from Flyingscot was that if a child was in an abusive/violent “traditionl” (meaning one mother, one father) family then it is preferable that they be removed and placed in a family which would have been vetted by social services first (regardless if they are in a committed heterosexual or homosexual relationship). Considering the few foster carers we have on the island (some of which are single btw) then surely that is preferable than going into the Childrens Home?
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GG
If a child has been put up for adoption or foster care it is often because it has come from an abusive household.
Are you saying that same sex partners are incapable of providing a loving home for an UNWANTED child?
When I was at school, children from divorced households were ridiculed and bullied…..just because their parents weren’t married……things have changed since then and are still changing…..
It’s only people like YOU who would bully these kids……fortunatly you are a dying breed!
And before you say gay people will raise gay kids, let me assure you that me and alot of my gay friends were raised in a hetrosexual parents!
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Only people like me? I imagine they would be bullied by every single child, it’s not normal to have gay parents. I for one wouldn’t want gay parents, it would be weird and freaky.
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Heteros are a lot better at providing for children, seeing as a man and a woman are designed for making them.
2 males this isn’t so, seeing as males are traditionally breadwinners and females stay at home cooking and ironing.
If you have 2 fathers, you’ll have plenty bread but no freshly pressed clothes. If you have 2 mothers, you’ll have plenty of de-creased trousers, but you’ll soon starve due to lack of bread.
We need to have a male and a female parent, because that’s just how it works.
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GG:
Yawn.
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@ Bill
Have you never seen a Gay Man clean a house?
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Lee
Have you stopped to think how the children themselves may feel? They may not actually want 2 daddies or 2 mummies for that matter. Surely the children and their needs should be a priority at all times regardless of what the adults want to do?
And before you say I don’t know what I’m talking about let me tell you a true story.
Once upon a time someone got a girl pregnant at 15, married her as soon as she was 16 and they had another child. He then decided he was gay and left. He fought for, and got custody of, the children then went on to have several relationships with women. He again decided he may be gay so had several relationships with men (obviously!). After a while he thought hang on an minute I want to marry a woman now and have more children. So he did. But no this wasn’t what he wanted after all and off he went to live a gay exisitence once again. After moving the children from pillar to post he decided they were an inconvenience and he no longer has them.
This person is a selfish individual without a thought for other people and their feelings.
Happy ending? For him maybe.But for the children? I think not.
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Hear here, Lee – well said.
GG and Bill. It’s sad that you are so passionately opposed to something you probably don’t really know much about. Do you actually know any gay people? What if one of your best mates came out to you – would you think any less of him because of that? surely inside he would be the same person as the one you had been friends with before you found out.
You also haven’t mentioned the fact that a proportion of Christians also happen to be gay. As I said in the paper last week I have an aunt who is the Mother Superior in the Catholic Church in Australia and has no problem with me being gay, other than the fact that it’s made my life harder because of ignorant people like you. Don’t even try to bring religion into it.
Bill, if there is a single woman bringing up a child does that mean you will have some pressed clothes but no food? I’m just glad that vast proportion of people in this day and age realise that this kind of view is outdated and ignorant. I would love to officially `marry’ my `wife’ in a ceremony in Guernsey (even though we’ve already had a commitment ceremony) and although I have been brought up Catholic religion wouldn’t even come into it.
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@ Bill
“you’ll have plenty bread but no freshly pressed clothes”
My ex used to iron his socks and underpants! Virgo.
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@ Bill
Thanks for that post you gave me a really good laugh!!
My boyfriend has just set off to bring home the bread, and me, well I think I’ll stay home and de-crease his trousers.
Classic!
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KD – interesting (and sad) story, but you are missing the crucial point – those were his biological children and so the authorities had no right to do anything unless he is being positively abusive. There are many unfortunate children out there.
What we are now talking about is adoption. No couple just gets to adopt without scrutiny. The authorities assess the couple and the interests of the child, not the wishes of the adopting couple, are paramount. If a couple is otherwise deemed to be suitable as an adopting environment, why should the fact that they are homosexual be an automatic prohibition? The authorities are well aware of the possible stigma involved due to society’s attitudes, but in some circumstances it would be in the child’s best interests to be adopted by a same sex couple despite that.
As an aside, following the recent re-vamp of childrens’ laws in Guernsey, is anyone actually sure that same sex adoptions are not permitted?
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Hilarious.
@ GG Bill
Lee, Andy and Liz here here.
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@ KD
Right so a a man has lots of kids and does a runner……I’ve heard stories like that before although in the ones I’ve heard of the man is usually a heterosexual, your story I think explains the execption and not the rule!
A small minority of Men will always sow their seed having babies all over the place and not taking responsibility for their actions. But is this really a good arguement against a loving same sex couple in a stable long term relationship being able to offer an unwanted child a loving home?
You say that maybe some children don’t want 2 mums or two dads, I’m not sure how adoption or fostering works but I would hope that the child, if old enough would have a say on who they live with so I guess I’m with you on that one.
I used to work for a homeless charity in Central London before moving to Alderney and I met so many young adults who were kicked out of home and left to fend for themselves on the streets. Many, would turn to prostitution to survive. How could a parent let their child come to this existance? I’ve no ida and I’m sure you don’t either.
All I’m saying is that when parents let their children down for whatever reason, that child needs a loving and caring environment. Why should same sex couples not be able to offer that?
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“All I’m saying is that when parents let their children down for whatever reason, that child needs a loving and caring environment. Why should same sex couples not be able to offer that?”
I think you’ve nailed it there Lee, no-one, surely, can argue with that.
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Because it’s darn right weird, you can offer it, but if I was the child I would not want to have two breads, or two clothes packers!
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Lee
Sorry, was just letting off steam I suppose as I was one of those left without contact or opportunities to see my “step children”. I don’t know where they are now but I do hope they are together in a loving home and I guess two loving parents of any sex are better than being shunted around.
Apologies for any upset.
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GG:
You are beyond reasoning with! The reason you’d have a problem with it and find it weird is because of a lack of education – and in a previous thread you argued that we should not educate our children about these matters. Can’t you see what a self-fulfilling prophecy you promote?!
Do you know what self-fulfilling prophecy means?!
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@Truth Man
If you look at GG’s pevious posts they all have a similar feel about them. Generally inviting an argument and winding up people without very much information backing up their original points.
I think he/she (whichever gender they decide to be that day) enjoys the argument much more than the debate I’m afraid which makes debating with them useless.
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I think you’ve rumbled her/him Lynnie
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Lynnie:
I think you’re absolutely right. The same theme runs through nearly all his/her posts on each thread they crop up in! Now officially added to my list of people not ‘debatewithable’!
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GG actually raises some very good points, but it’s because they are against what many of you are saying that you feel the need to victimize and belittle what she’s saying.
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I think I’m just going to update my list: Do not debate with Truth Man, he may kick up a fuss, as he wishes for the island to become a mini-England, with many foreign folk, which are gay similar to San Fran.
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Bill:
Give an example of a good point raised by GG.
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