Mephedrone is banned from Friday
Wednesday 14th April 2010, 2:30PM BST.
MEPHEDRONE will become an illegal drug at the end of this week.
Health and Social Services has worked with the Home Department to update the law to include emerging drugs of concern, commonly referred to as legal highs.
Mephedrone, or 4-methylmethcathinone, will be considered a class B controlled drug from Friday.
Anyone caught in possession of, selling, importing, exporting, producing or supplying such drugs without a licence, either in person or online, could face criminal prosecution with a maximum sentence of 21 years in prison.
Chief officer of Customs and Immigration Rob Prow (pictured) said the service, in partnership with the police, would target drug traffickers and those in possession of controlled drugs.
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Great news. Just a shame it came some time after Jersey declared it illegal…
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about bloody time so many people i know have died from od’s from that
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Lynnie, why is it such great news? And why is it worse that Jersey banned it before Guernsey? Do you know a lot about it?
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Don’t really know what you’re getting at Nat. It’s my opinion.
I know enough to think that it’s a good decision to make it illegal.
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Re Nat
Tell him Lynnie!
I find it strange that some contributors seem to almost demand that others have a Cambridge degree on a subject before their personal opinion can be accepted
From other posts on the subject of illegal drugs it can be deduced that Nat would rather our drugs laws were relaxed
Lynnie doesn’t agree and nor do I,but that might just be down to common sense
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I think that it is great new that this drug has been banned, but i find it difficult to understand how you could possibly get 21years in prison yet a convicted Paedophile serves 7 months!!!
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Thank the good lord! Now it’s illegal I suspect we have seen the last of this ‘meow meow’!
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Ray, Lynnie, the problem is people make uninformed decisons without really knowing anything about the subject. Look at Kelly’s post, for example. There have been no confirmed deaths in the UK from Mephedrone, so she’s talking absolute nonsense!
I would expect that for someone to make a comment on a forum regarding a subject that they would have at least some level of knowledge on the subject.
I do have a view that prohibition is a waste of time, which is a view that seems to be backed up by the availability of drugs on the island and the constant levels of demand for illegal drugs.
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Once again some people think that prohibition is effective. It doesn’t work, but it keeps the Daily Mail readers happy I suppose.
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Nat;
After some research into the subject
Police said they believed the drug — also known as “meow meow” or M-CAT — contributed to the deaths of Louis Wainwright, 18, and Nicholas Smith, 19, who died on Monday after a night out in Scunthorpe. Three men have been arrested in connection with the deaths.
Because it is often taken in large quantities and in conjunction with other party drugs such as ketamine, it can also cause blood vessels to narrow and bring on cardiac arrest.
Without posting them all on here I suggest you look up how many toxin reports have mephedrone mentioned.
Therefore YOU’RE the one talking nonsence Nat.
We’re not making decisions Nat. I can only speak for myself of course I have no idea of Ray’s situation but I didn’t have any say in if this drug was being made illegal.
My opinion is just that. My opinion.
Phil – I would suggest otherwise. I would imagine that availbility would be greater therefore more inexperienced users equating to more deaths.
It’s a step in the right direction.
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Hi Lynnie,
Just an observation, but I believe from the toxicology reports that mephedrone alone has killed no-one, but has caused the much publicised deaths when combined with other illegal drugs.
I guess the point here is that the other drugs were illegal so clearly criminalising something makes no difference whatsoever.
This was my point with legal highs. Why ban something that has killed no-one thus forcing people onto other more readily available and more dangerous drugs?? It’s not a step forwards. It’s a step sideways, off the pavement and into the middle of the road….
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Lynnie, maybe if you look a bit deeper you’ll see that the two men you mention also ingested a large amount of alcohol and methadone (the heroin substitute). I appreciate you are not an expert on this subject, and it would be wrong of me to pass judgement on someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about, however large amounts of alcohol and methadone combined usually produce fatal effects (with our without mephedrone).
Also, ketamine and mephedrone are not often combined no matter what the Daily Mail or The Sun might say. The Sun even had an article describing how “evil dealer” were selling mephdedrone mixed with heroin. Which is utter nonsense!
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Are we now saying that anyone who wants drug laws relaxed does not have common sense??
Or are we saying that anyone who has done some research on the subject lacks common sense?? Because there is overwhelming evidence in support of relaxing drug laws and there is no other coherent argument against it except for name calling of the proponents??
Just stick this little argument in your pipe and smoke it for a while……
If drug laws were relaxed, people could be taking a controlled dose of well regulated high quality cannabis. This is opposed to resorting to risking their lives by taking mephedrone or the next even more dangerous legal high that will pop up soon.
This would also give a bit of tax income thrown in for good measure.
How is this not a win win??
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Student Bob says “Why ban something that has killed no-one thus forcing people onto other more readily available and more dangerous drugs?”
That’s not really the point, on two grounds.
1) It might not be a killer, but A&E and mental health services have noted a significant effect, with users presenting with psychotic symptoms and mood fluctuations following use.
2) “Forcing” people onto other drugs? One could make just as convincing an argument that the presence of a ‘legal’ drug in a society acts as an inducement to transfer onto more serious illegal drugs.
There is a concerning wider point that isn’t addressed in the ban, and I certainly don’t have any answers on. Why is it that so many more people (particularly young people) feel the need to use mind-altering chemicals than previously? This includes illegal drugs, but also applies to rising levels of binge drinking and substances like mephedrone.
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Well, I am pleased about this. There is no evidence that ‘prohibition does not work’. We have no way of knowing what the size of the problem would be if currently illegal drugs were legal. I think it is safe to assume that that problems associated with abuse would be much, much worse.
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Fair point, maybe I don’t know all there is to know about the drug (I never said I did) but from what I have read (be it that it is influenced greatly by the media, however I’m not a frequent buyer of The Sun) I think it’s a good decision. I don’t have to have endless facts backing up my argument as I said it’s my opinion. You of course are entitled to yours.
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Phil
Yes, curse those DM Readers (Not). They’d advocate the prohibition of anything wouldn’t they? Probably even computers since they are all Technophobes too.
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I’m always amazed at ‘expert’ opinion on matters about which there is no conclusive evidence. It is a nonsense to argue that something wouldn’t be banned because it is difficult to enforce the ban.
Of course the substance should be banned, and those dealing in it should be dealt with severely, but it will only be effective if our community does something to stem the demand. People need good lives with hope, meaning, purpose, and good emotional connections to healthy family environments. We need to reduce demand whilst cutting off supply.
A good starting point is not to believe anything you read in any national newspaper.
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Truth Man
I think 20′s and 30′s America is good evidence about prohibition not working.
Unforunatley people want to get high, thats is a fact of life it will always be the case, thats a solution that is currently beyond science.
I dont think anyone is advocating mass legalisation of drugs, that would be madness, but simply making certain substances like cannabis legal, but regulated (which is the key part), thats what eventually happened with Acohol in the US.
If people know they can pop down the off-licence and buy safe weed, they are less likely to be out on street corners pumping themselves full of whatever is legal at the moment, or risking their physical safety chasing dealers for the illegal stuff.
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Hi James, I wasn’t aware that there was any research to support your, and the Daily Mail’s, claim that mephedrone alone causes clinically significant pyschotropic effects? The BMJ reckons that the quantities of illegal horse tranquilisers, illegal opiates and alcohol that the user is consuming as well might contribute.
I’d recommend some sort of ban on illegal drugs.
Oh and as for forcing people onto harder drugs, well, would you prefer that the former legal high users turn their addiction to alcohol and tobacco?? After all, at least we can collect some tax on those eh….
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Well i think im going to be the only one on this foram to say it but this ban as in other bans STINKS!!!! its my body, my choice im at the age (33) to make my own choices and i will so i will go to my dealer and get it anyway i will only get a little bit though cause now its illegal i have to pay double (bummer) but there you go never mind a!! these laws (statues) not the real law of the land by the way only stautes made by people who think thay can run other peoples lives sinks i will and forever while im on this great planet of mine do what the hell i like to my body and no one can stop me , not every one abuses these substances i have two jobs i havent got a record i have never been arrested . people find it easy to blame other peoples downfalls on drugs and booze but ultimatly its up to the indfiduale ( rant over ) peace to all !!!
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Go work in the Castel Hospital for a couple of months (or A&E); talk to the staff there, and then come back and tell me that mephedrone is safe, harmless, and absolutely not implicated in mental health problems. Hey, if it’s that safe, let’s add it to the water supply so everyone can enjoy it.
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@ James, why should something be banned because it may cause mood swings? Are you saying booze should also be changed from a legal high to an illegal high?
And your question as to why people want to get high doesn’t really have an answer. We are all different. I like a variety of highs, some of which are not to everyone’s taste!
@ Fred, why do you say “of course it should be banned”? Shouldn’t we be allowed to decided ourselves what chemicals we decide to ingest?
@ Dave Haslam, spot on!
It will be interesting to see the availability of meph and similar powders in town tonight.
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For the record i never said it was safe cause it totally isn’t, But it is my choice to take it.
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James, I’ve just finished a placement in Morecambe, an area with significantly worse social problems than Guernsey, opinion on the wards and amongst the staff in the PCT was that mephedrone isn’t causing the problem, it’s all the cocktail of illegal substances that are being taken with it.
Can I suggest you read the following before your next ridiculous comment??
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/340/mar23_1/c1605
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Student Bob and Nat:
Mood Swings? there is a lot more than mood swings, self harm, suicide (and i know of someone who has committed suicide because they cant cope with coming off this!) I have just started working with these people here and yes it is definately causing problems! It is very disturbing seeing young kids trying to come off this stuff, yes alcohol does cause problems but since legal highs have come in more and more kids are getting in trouble self harming and stealing to fund the habbit, selling their bodies i could go on and on! Making this legal is just crazy talk!
(why not sell prescription drugs in your local corner store, or hand out bags of the stuff on the high street to promote it) Go back to sleep!
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Dave Haslam:
Yes, as I paraphrased the word ‘prohibition’ I suspected some one would refer to the ‘Experiment’. However, similarly, there are also examples of very successful dry jurisdictions.
I make my assumption based on the fact that I cannot see how on earth our problems associated with alcohol abuse would be as bad if alcohol was not legal. From the other end of the scale, it would also seem a safe assumption that abuse of currently illegal drugs would be worse if they were legal.
Of course, I am not simply referring to personal medical issues, I am also very mindful of the social problems caused by drug abuse.
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Truth Man
I see your point but let me just tell you this little story related to your point on making alcohol illegal. (which is a true story by the way no matter hoy far fetched it sounds).
Where I went to university (many many moons ago unfortunately) there was a problem with underage drinking, this was back before underage drinking was as big a problem. The police in association with the off-licences had a massive clampdown and the kids couldnt get alcohol.
Happy days, yes??…… Well… no as it happens.
To make a quick buck, seeing this unfold 1 of the Chemistry PHD students at the university had a brainwave, he deliberately ordered too much ethanol for an experiment, waaaay too much. So the chemist who shall remain nameless went round all the street corners hocking this lethal stuff to whatever kid was dumb enough to buy it (which was most of them).
The police only realised there was an issue when umpteen kids were carried to A&E to have their stomachs pumped.
My point is, where there is a will, there is way, and usually with addicts it is the path of least resistance, and there will ALWAYS be some scumbag happy to make a profit.
However if we make more things readily avaible, you take away 3 things.
1 you take away the nasty dangerous substances that people are grabbing as a substitute
2 You take away the danger of acquiring it
3 You take away the scumbag dealers who have no regard for their clients.
I agree there should be more done at the source to prevent addiction, but making the whole thing less dangerous (and less glamourous to people that like that sort of thing) can only be beneficial.
After all, give me 1 good reason why alcohol is legal and cannabis isnt (other than tax).
It works in Holland, and I gurantee that if Guernsey tourism are reading this and need a selling point….. look no further ;)
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Interestingly I think the UK ban could have a negative effect locally. The ‘chemists’ in China have already prepared different substances that are not covered by the new legislation. Therefore we will see a wave of these things coming through soon legally to the UK, and Guernsey. This means Guernsey/Jersey will have to pass legislation again (presumably).
They may be prepared for this, I don’t know.
Personally I think legalise Cannabis & MDMA to stop people seeking out these nasty chemicals. At least then we know what we are dealing with.
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Dave Haslam:
I think that was a very good post.
There is no doubt, as you highlight, that there is an argument for regulation as opposed to prohibition. However, there is also a strong counter argument. I would like to know if there is any research available which would tell us which of the two is more successful (cue Student Bob).
In the meantime, I am more for prohibition and effective law enforcement following up on strong preventative and educational methods. But that’s just the kind of person I am. I wholly accept others may like fewer rules and laws and like I said, there are arguments for both approaches.
If anyone has access to any research on the effectiveness of regulation Vs the effectiveness of prohibition I would be very interested to read it – links please!
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Banned on Friday, new legal high to replace it has already been mentioned…its only Monday! they will keep changing the ingredients slightly thus keeping them Legal Highs. Banning it has just made way for the next one.
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What a surprise, a replacement is already on the market!! And if we rush to outlaw this replacement you can rest assured another one will appear straight away, it’s probably already in existence. And the biggest (sad) joke about all this is that these substances are invariably more harmful than the original outlawed ones. All prohibition does is keep the enforcers employed at an enormous financial cost to the taxpayer. Legalise and tax everything, the revenue raised would more than offset the inevitable cost of dealing with the problems that some people will develop. Just as it is with alcohol or cigarettes, the amount they bring in is many many times more than the amount they cost.
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Not absolutely certain but doesn’t our new law include derivatives of the newly banned ex legal high so that the law doesn’t need to be changed every few days / weeks ?
Customs should make that clear to prevent importation of the new stuff
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I think the Guerney law follows UK law. But UK law is being circumvented. Time to legalise and tax!
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If the ‘powers that be’ actually started educating drug users instead of resorting to mindless scare tactics they would stand a better chance of getting a handle on problematic drug use. All drugs are harmful to some degree, alcohol, as shown by the ACMD’s own drug harm comparison, is significantly more harmful than most illicit drugs. The fact we have businesses where people congregate in order to be served a wide variety of ‘flavoured’ ethanol, for the purposes of experiencing the psychoactive effects, does not diminish the fact that a drug is being consumed.
There is a desperate need for society to stop pretending that alcohol consumption ‘doesn’t count’ as drug use. Whilst this may upset the wine-guzzling readers of the Daily Mail, the fact remains that we need to remove the blinkers and accept that the only way to approach the issue of drug use and abuse is through factual harm-reduction information.
For instance, if cocaine users were informed that if they consume it with alcohol it creates, in-vivo, a substance called cocaethylene, which is more harmful than the sum of either drug combined, they would be less likely to ignore this fact or, for that matter, other, scientifically proven, facts pertaining to various drugs.
That, before the ‘headshop’ phenomenon of ridiculously labelled compounds being sold as ‘plant food’ and eagerly hoovered up by the gram as if it were cocaine, the users of these ‘research chemicals’ would generally be sufficiently educated and informed people who knew not to exceed 5/600milligrams in one session, that they must be wary of polydrug interaction and that, even then, there were likely to be issues relating to mood swings during the following days.
That these molecules were treated with reckless abandon when they were ‘discovered’ by the general populace says a lot about the dearth of trusted information being issued by government.
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It is quite clear to me that encouraging the use of recreational drug taking is wrong. To ban these drugs is definately a step in the right direction.
To legalise drugs could not possibly work, as it would encourage new people to experiment. Hard core users will however always find a way to get their drugs. The only way forward is to keep penalties high for suppliers, offer counselling rehabilitation and support for users, and increase awareness for our young and old through education and media. It is as important to educate parents as much as it is young people so they have the knowledge to notice when their children may need help. I also really believe it is wrong to criminalise the first time user as they are quite often led astray by peer pressure. Of course if someone reoffends then throw the book at them.
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@ Geoff
Thanks for your advice on the above post but i really dont need counselling or advise and the only supprot i would ever want is that of the poltitions to legalise some of these drugs . I understand every ones concerns on this matter but surly if i want to snort something up ‘MY’ nose then that is my choice !!! xxx
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Joby, I’m more than happy for you to snort anything you wish to up ‘YOUR’ nose but I sincerely resent the fact that through overuse (OD or prolonged) or your behavior whilst under the influence of whatever substance the direct need will arise for ‘MY’ taxes (in medical care etc) to be used clear up whatever results from your choice.
Personally I’m of the opinion that you can have your choice as long as you pay some form of premium (tax on tobacco being the prime example) to cover the potential consequences. i.e. legalise and tax (heavily)! Tax to be used to fund whatever education and social projects are required.
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Geoff, I can’t agree with any of your point. How can you believe that “The only way forward is to keep penalties high for suppliers”? This approach clearly doesn’t work!
Stunned Guern: Joby’s post is actually correct. Society shouldn’t interfere with an individuals freedom. But your point is also correct. Hence we need to legalise and tax.
The vast majority of society abstain from illegal drug use because they do not want to suffer any of the effects of drug use, NOT just because they are illegal. Guernsey may have developed a reputation as a “centre of excellence for legal highs” but it was hardly an epidemic. Did we see school Mum’s endulging, or lawyers at work, or coppers in their cars, or bus drivers at the wheel etc? No, even though legal highs were freely available. Let’s face it, most of the folk who got into legal highs to such an extent that is was a detriment to their health would have done so with other substances.
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Looks like its back to Gerrys Bar for legal liquid highs and E flavoured Crisps
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@ Geoff
In reply to your post i do pay my taxs on both my jobs!And also i do what ever i do in my own house so no one would see my behavour witch is in fact just very chattie. I understand that this issue is not just about me but about every one in Guernsey.There is just a minority of youngsters that obviosly cant handle these substances. And as soon as they get court doing them there shoved either in the prison or the hospital (and complain its the drugs doing this to me ) Bu**s**t we all have our own minds and the youngsters find it way to easy to blame it on these drugs and not on them selfs. I now exactly what im doing to my body either good or harm so i can modarate what i can ingest . The above posts are correct in saying that there needs to be more education done on these substances and i do meen education and not brain washing…..
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I hear what everyone is saying, and I think all arguments carry some merit. I was a victim of “Trying it once” years ago through peer pressure, and I enjoyed it so much it wrecked 15 years of my life, not physically but financially. I regard myself as strong minded, educated, and totally sane, but still I could not stop. Maybe if I am totally honest I did not want to, who knows. It was when I lost everything, 2 boats, 2 cars, my home, my partner and a lot of friends I got the message. I would have ended up in hospital, prison or dead if I hadn’t stopped. The funny thing is I only remember those days as good ones, weird isn’t it. I progressed from hash to speed to coke then crack and heroin. I always thought I could stop tomorrow, obviously tomorrow never came. I am glad to say that I am completely clean now and have been for many years. That is why I feel strongly about banning all drugs and penalising dealers, it would have saved me. Who knows I may be wrong.
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ummm, smoking, fag, cigs, rollies, whatever you call them, do they not kill more people a year via cancer, in MANY forms?! even if you’re a passive smoker it can harm you! I think if you’re going to ban (not being bais, i dnt use either) then Smoking should be the first to go! deaths will go down ALOT more then after banning meth!
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geoff
Excellent story and excellent end result.Kids in school ought to be made to copy it out one hundred times.
One thing though.Did you cure yourself or did you need medical and other help at taxpayers expense which is one of the gripes ( mine included )on this thread?
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@Ray
why should children at school be made to copy it out?! Umm because they young and they don’t know ANYTHING?! i think anyone from 8+ knows drugs are bad, so making them “write it out” 100 times would be a waste of time, I left school 2 years ago and if i had been told to do so, because it will teach me right from wrong, i think a few “french words” would have been muttered! and if kids 7 and under do not know the right from wrong dont make them write C!!p down. show them a book or something they can relate to!
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I sorted myself out. Know body else can, they can only advise you, and to be quite honest they only tell you what you already know. Its like people can give good advice on financial matters and know exactly what to do, but could not necessary apply it to themselves. I was the best person in the world to help other users, but applying the advice to myself was very difficult.
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I think kids know the phrase “drugs are bad” but do not actually understand it.
Why not teach what substance abuse does to you in schools? including alcohol and tobacco as well as illegal substances. I’m sure curiosity is to blame for many first time users. Bring it into science lessons, first hand accounts from recovers, how to enjoy responsibily and so on.
I think it’s an incredibly selfish statement to make by saying “it’s my body I’ll do what I want” as I’m sure that’s what everyone who has ever OD’d has said. I’m not too sure how reassuring that would be to the people who care about them or to the young children they leave behind.
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