2

bemused

Or maybe if employers stopped treating their staff like sh*t then people might have more loyalty!!!!!

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4

Lynnie

The benefit system here is far too generous. Also the feely available medical certificates are a joke. It’s almost like the doctors feel obliged to give them something as they paid for the appointment.

bemused – if you don’t like your employers you find another job not continously pull sickies.

On the whole I think the employers in Guernsey are quite good (there’s always a couple though granted) considering the lack of protection for employees. Many staff get holiday pay, sick pay, overtime, without there being any legislation for it on the island.

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6

Merlin

I do agree that it appears far too easy to get a medical certificate – are doctors ever challenged as to why they are signing people off at the drop of a hat. 500 a week on a small island beggars belief!

I do think that Lynnie has a point though – if patients are paying to see the doctor then perhaps they do feel obliged to give them a sick note. The issues of stress need to be managed better – staff can be off for months with ‘stress’ . Stress needs to be managed and dealt with early not allowed to fester until it becomes a long term problem. Manual workers being signed off with back injuries is another example – they need to be offered retraining and not just automatically assuming that is the end of their working life with the tax payer footing the bill – often for 20 years or more.

Both employers and employees have responsibilities here – and the trouble with Guernsey is that a lot of employers insist that their workers get a medical certificate – and if someone has e.g. a stomach upset or a cold and go to the doctor they will be give a week off when if they had been allowed to self certify for 3 days they would be back at work sooner.

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8

simon

Great idea for filling the black hole, lets not have any sick people!
Life in guernseys new economic rat race is causing an large number of people to be off work with illnesses.
Economic progress whatever the consequences for the quality of life.
While we all sit in houses with fancy price tags and earn telephone number salaries, with our heads shoved firmly up our own sandpits eh!
MONEY IS KING

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10

Lynnie

MUMOF2 – You need to have paid enough contributions (stamp) before you’re entitled to benefit. Am not sure what the levels are but I think it’s a least 2 years of working full time.

If the benefit was paid to everyone from day one of working the pot would be dry and you would soon see the rate increase. Remember that the SI contibutions also contribute to hosptial admission if your son is ever taken seriously ill.

As it is there isn’t enough in the pot to sustain the rest of us when we reach retirement age.

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12

Dave Haslam

David

Yes I agree,

Those pesky multiple sclerosis and cancer patients taking our hard earned cash, the lazy so and so’s.

That was sarcasm by the way.

I think social security need to look at thie running of guernsey’s welfare system as a whole, not just attempt to deflect one of their issues back to industry.

Maybe if they concentrated on a scheme to get the lazy doleheads back in work, which is a much larger drain on our resources, we wouldnt be worrying about a few sicknotes.

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14

kevin

In my experience i would say 80% of people signed off work could come to work if they wanted to. Someone e.g. HSSD should point out to doctors that people who are continually getting signed off work for every illness under the sun will eventually lose their jobs if absence (your not allowed to call it sickness)is managed correctly. Have any of you heard of the Bradford Factor?

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16

Dave Haslam

Simon

Its just another formulaic way for management to monitor their employees once a year and not take into account what actually occurs day to day.

Usually used in the following circumstance….

“employee x has singlehandedly increased company profitablity by 20% this year……. but his bradford score is high, he’s getting a written warning”

Employee X leaves to join biggest rival.

It was also largely invented solely that the HR department could justify its existence and give a formula for trainee HR officers to learn for exams.

Things that it doesnt take into account is if someone with a serious cold comes into work because he’s worried about his bradford score and sits under the air-con duct. Before you know it the whole office is ill, and instead of having 1 unplanned absence you end up with any number of them, or an office full of sick employees performing at 50%…. all because of a play on numbers.

Amongst other things.

Although I could be wrong, I’m not sure, have the CIPD added the air-conditioning variable to their oh-so complicated formula??

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18

kevin

dave haslam

absolute poppycock!

simon
the bradford factor is a formula which does give a rating on an individual employee’s absence level.
It is up to each company to set a level which it thinks is acceptable. An employee who takes a day here two days there another day then three days there and so on will have a very high Bradford factor. A genuine employee with a good attendance record may well get signed off for a considerable length of time for say a broken wrist but still have a low Bradford factor.

Bradford Factor
no of spells of absence X spells of absence X days off = bradford factor.

employee A 7 spells of absence X 7 X 11 days = 539

employee B 2 spells of absence X 2 X 11 days = 44

I hope this explains things but I’ll leave it up to you guys to comment on whether you think it is of use.

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20

Dave Haslam

Kevin

Oooh “poppycock”!! Thats told me!!

Could you tell me which bit in particular, was poppycock because beleive me, I’ve seen this “management information tool” in action and it causes more problems than it alledgedly solves.

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22

James

The Bradford factor is useful, but only at a broad-brush level, and it is no substitute for line managers making a real effort to know their staff and keep a close eye on things.
The whole sick note system is systemically flawed, since the doctor signing the sicknote is the employee’s own GP in most cases, and since the employee pays the GP, there is a real disincentive to refuse to sign a sick note.
In addition, the GP has no relationship or obligation to the employer, and the employer (or indeed the States more generally) has very little influence over GPs, who are independent, private practitioners. The system relies on GPs’ professionalism and knowledge of occupational health. Mostly this is pretty good, I hasten to add: GPs are a responsible bunch and try their best.
However, if you were designing a system from scratch, I doubt you’d come up with the present one.

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24

Fred

Surely we live in a world where those who are able and strong take care of those who are not quite so strong. If you agree with that principle then it is just a matter of finding a fair way to administer and police it all. The appropriate police now prevent us employers from actually calling anybody at home to ask how they are doing, just in case they are offended by it.

Let us not be naive about doctors. Our system in Guernsey is private medicine. GPs get paid by each person who goes to them, and they do not care if it comes from the patient or an insurance company. A certain percentage gets held by the medical practice and the rest goes into the doctor’s pocket. If a GP refused to give a medical certificate to somebody because he/she was not totally sure that the patient was ill the patient would just go elsewhere. I’ve shifted GPs myself on the island, and not because of a sick note.

Many people who are off frequently have very good reason, and some don’t. What we need is the freedom to look into people who are off sick frequently, and help them to cope with work and life a little better. Many people are off because they are sponging off the tax payer. Many are off because they have genuine reason. Let us just find an effective way to sort those two groups out, and deal with them accordingly.

Sadly many employers employ managers who have scant regard for the basic idea that we all need to treat our fellow humans with respect, and allow them to maintain their dignity. The standard of management here is not high. On one notable occasion a couple of years ago a civil service department planned a move and ‘forgot’ to tell a large number of key admin staff. A meeting was called to discuss the logistics of the move with all staff, and somebody mentioned it to one of the people who had not been told. There were red faces all round. A culture of controlling our people with arbitrary targets rather than consulting them leaves people feeling stressed and bullied. It’s time for a change of culture and accountability measurement.

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26

David

At totally…

if they are fit to break in whether breaking in through adoor or a window, climb up a ladder or drainpipe to get entry, and carry the loot, tvs, dvd players and such like.. then they must be fit work right ?
I rest my case !

I am not saying that real benefit claimers should be penalised, but doctors should be more thorough, a 2 minute consultation, its virus, heres a sick note.. for the week.. is simply totally rediculous.
most employers i know only require a note after 3 days, and most keep records of each employers sickness, they watch for patterns, ie lots of mondays, or days between weekends and liberation days, day after nights out etc.. my employer will also deduct pay from my salary if i cannot prove an illness of more than 3 days.

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28

Paul Le Page

I don’t quite get this article. Surely the Social Security office should be talking to the doctors about this, not employers. After all, it’s doctors who write sick notes, not employers – and often far too quickly.

I wonder what your thoughts are on this: a system where people can be signed off from certain types of work but declared fit for other kinds. For example, someone who might not be able to do heavy manual work could be able to do other types of work, such as deliveries. Everyone who is off on long term sickness leave is assessed to see if they are fit for other kinds of work.

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