Multimillionaires are on their way
Wednesday 26th May 2010, 2:30PM BST.
MORE of the UK’s super-rich will be moving to Guernsey to live, according to Bristol City FC chairman Stephen Lansdown.
The co-founder of financial services firm Hargreaves Lansdown was revealed earlier this week to be the latest wealthy UK individual to be taking up residence in Guernsey to escape high mainland taxes.
The 57-year-old (pictured), who bought a home in St Peter Port 18 months ago but moved to the island to live only at the end of March, labelled the UK’s 50% top rate of tax ‘ridiculous’ in an exclusive interview with the Guernsey Press.
‘When the UK was 40% top tax and 10% capital gains tax I didn’t bat an eyelid about having to pay that. But when they put capital gains up to 18%, that was a massive difference in what I was expecting to pay.’
That rise, coupled with the 40% inheritance tax he was also already facing paying, was simply too much to take, added Mr Lansdown. He completed his move to the island before the 50% top rate of tax came into effect on 6 April.
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And what benefit will these millionaires bring, exactly? Apart from plugging the financial black hole, Guernsey should try and excercise some leverage over these financial refugees by increasing the tax rate for these high earners in a stepwise manner over time. Whilst buying into the open market, the influx of multimillionaries inevitably squeezes Guernsey natives from buying properties in their island indirectly, due to finite space. Welcome these mega-millionaires with cautious arms and at a safe distance- ask them what else they will do to improve island life.
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Are there actually that many open-market houses available?
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Dan, what a load of rubbish! How does someone from the UK moving to the island to live in an open market house “squeeze Guernsey natives due to finite space?”
And if we increase taxes, then the main reason for them coming here will no longer exist.
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well said greg, @dan, i think you’ll find that the open market is a finite market, i can’t see gsy building 100′s of open market homes.
the busier the open market the better as the tax take will go up on property sales.
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What exactly does Dan think Mr Lansdown should be doing to improve Island life?
I imagine he already picks up his own litter on the beach and probably uses the local shops.
Perhaps if Hargreaves Lansdown were to open a Guernsey office then we may get better pension service than is currently offered by the current system of RATS providers.
The number of Open Market dwellings is finite therefore any talk of squeezing natives out of space is claptrap.
As for exercising leverage what has he done to upset you? Let the fellow live a quiet life if he wants.
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Greg
It would be interesting to find out how many local properties are owned by non local individuals and investment vehicles. Nice little earner, don’t you think?
Really, some of you people live in a utopia where disproprtionate buying power can do no wrong. It’s really very basic stuff.
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Arnald – I imagine that the number of local market houses owned by non-locals is dwarfed by the amount of overseas property owned by Guernsey locals (who, as you say, make a nice little earner out of the rental income)!
If someone wants to invest in overseas property and charge a market rate rent, what harm are they doing? Why does it matter whether the landlord is local or overseas?
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TL
Arnald has always maintained that profit is a four letter word.
I wonder if he realises that when the paper man delivers his weekly Communist World magazine the paper man makes a small profit,the Island’s main paper distributor makes a small profit,the airline makes a small profit,the haulier who took the magazine from the printer to the airport makes a small profit, the printer makes a small profit which goes towards paying the editor and his working class staff their weekly stipend.
They in turn buy their groceries from the corner shop which makes a small profit etc etc.
I know that won’t make you happy Arnald but what’s the use of happiness? It can’t buy you money !
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Well more millonaries on the island eventually prices will rise cause the states will think that we are all millionariers and can afford the extortionist prices of every thing on the island from bread to houses. good luck to them if thay want to come to the island great (but we will see if it pushes more local people out of the island ,due to riseing bills that we all ‘as lower payed end of the scale job holders are ‘) We are not all millionares ( And it just seems to me to be getting harder and harder to live over here …
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With a firesale of 2nd homes in the UK on its way with the CONDEM’s CGT initiative, the states should look to create a 100+ open market superhomes…say good bye to the Guernsey blackhole and maybe with the extra tax we get from banks moving more of their Business offshore due to the new EU tax on Banks, we can reduce the income tax percentage therefore attracting more super rich away from Britain….Happy times ;)
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Ray
I don’t know why you bother.
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Hope you’re joking PC.
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Arnald
I bother because I care about you. I would really like to help cure you.
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Gentlement, surely the question we are all asking, is when is there going to be a rather attractive, fabulously wealthy and singly woman moving to the island? They I can ditch Mrs brown and the rigours of a working life and finally live the life I am sure I was born to lead – living with a rich sexy business woman who can sustain my luxurious lifestyle – isnt that what we all want?
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Arnald, even if Mr Landsdown bought a local house via some sort of company, I expect he’s buying at a level that has very little impact on the average house price in Guernsey.
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For those of you who want to know how non-locals moving to the island to occupy open market housing squeezes Guernsey ‘natives’ out, the answer is quite simple. Once someone has lived here in an open market property for 15 years, they can sell their OM property, move into local market accommodation and make a killing on the difference. I fully appreciate that not all do this, but many do (and my work puts me in a position where I see this happening on a regular basis.) Quite simply, there are finite properties on the island and positive population growth even in times of austerity; something has to give.
I would also add that my work also allows me to see how little many of these rich migrants actually pay in the way of taxes – they come here to avoid having to do that.
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Ray, with no due respect, your last post before your proclamation of care was rubbish.
I have never said profit shouldn’t exist. Of course it is a necessary factor in business. My problem is with the idea that those that earn and hoard the most are earning and hoarding at such a more greater rate than the overwhelming majority of the world, that the model is simply a dog’s breakfast.
People can say all they like about government wastage, but more is lost to the public through the super wealthy feeling as though they are ENTITLED to keep on becoming ever more superiorly wealthy, without actually recognising the relationship between all of the socio-economic factors involved in the process.
Those on the bottom are paying more to prop up the those who have enough to up sticks and go elsewhere. Is it their fault they have to pay more, or is it the fault of those who could shoulder more responsibility and yet STILL MAINTAIN THEIR ADOLESCENT NEED FOR SUPERIORITY?
These types you see on the tv defending the failed ideologies that caused the crash get shriller and shriller and shriller when criticised. Just like you guys on here.
Let’s be real and treat the players of games that are causing the ‘austerity’ measures (GST soon anyone?) with some caution, instead of thinking that they will save Guernsey from itself. Only people can make Guernsey better. Not quick hits of alleged tax receipts (dunno about you but i’d use our ‘sophisticated’ expertise to create a network of instruments spanning a few jurisdictions in order to book income and profit as if they never happened if i lived here – wht would i trust this States more than anyone else?)
No logic. Just ideology.
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Greg – but the point is that even if he did that, he could not live in the property himself. He cannot claim that it is the local company that is living there instead of him!
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lol @ Ray – I didn’t realise that having an different perspective on life was a disease. Thanks for enlightening me.
Fair play to Arnald – I have many differences of opinion with him but the guy sticks to his principles. An admirable trait in my book.
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@ Paul le Page; Nick Griffin sticks to his principles, but that doesn’t mean I would say “Fair Play” to him!
GD; thank you for your point. Do you not think that open market “convertees” (for want of a better description!) are going to be operating in the upper levels of the local housing market, and thus has little impact on the rest of us? I personally believe the crazy prices of local market houses has little to do with the odd multi-millionaire tax exile from the the UK.
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What good will this do?
For one thing it continues to highlight the fact that all our little Island is good for is being a haven for those who want to avoid paying tax. It is all well and good promoting the Island, but this seems to be the first and only thing those outside of the Island recognise us for. Personally, I don’t see it as a positive one!
Once again those who are deemed ‘super-rich’ are able to be exempt from the taxes and the little Mr and Mrs have to pay for it. Oh how fair democracy (* cough- bureaucracy *) is within this beautiful Island.
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@Greg – I disagree, sir. Nick Griffin is a popularist who changes his principles to make his odious party look electable. Scratch beneath the surface and he’s still a racist bigot!
So, I do say “fair play” to Arnald, as he sticks firmly to his principles irrespective of popular opinion. I may not agree with all of them but I admire him for it.
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Greg
Offense duly taken.
Although you’re wrong. Griffin lies and changes his rhetoric in order to garner popular support.
So even with an insult you show how truly ignorant you are.
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Arnald – may I ask you a question? Good!
Where on this planet is there a fair and equitable taxation system that evenly distributes wealth and that respects the human rights of its citizens?
If you can answer this then there may be some credence in your argument…or is it just ideology?
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Ha Ha – love it!
Arnald and I on the same wavelength….beautiful!
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Gilthead – I think we all know that answer to that question is nowhere.
Surely that doesn’t prevent people of all political / ideological persuasions trying to find the best solution? I thought that was what open and robust debate was all about?
Unfortunately on this website (and other similar forums) the debate too frequently goes off the issues and hand and deteriorates into mud slinging and insults. Bit like the House of Commons really….!
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GD – you are not quite right there. Simply occupying an open market house for 15 years does not qualify you to buy on the local market. You could only do that if your parents owned the open market house and you occupied it as a child and then spent 20 years living in Guernsey out of any 30 years.
An adult cannot qualify as a resident by buying an open market house and waiting for any period of time. They would never become a qualified resident.
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I disagree…Griffin has consistently been a racist for many years.
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GD
Once open market, always open market. 15 years open does not make you local or give you the right to buy local
GG – partly joking but why not increase number of open market homes if it means the super rich can retire/live here and contribute to our economy. I may leave my island when I retire and live in France. Millions migrate
Nick Griff arguments- He could only dream of having Guernsey’s housing policy in the UK. The descriminitive nature of our policy means we will always have 95+ white Guernsey population given we do not have an immigration policy that allows eg 100 people in a year no matter how much they have or what they do and give them a local license. Quite happy for locals to live around the world but come and work in Guernsey…we give you 5 years and please leave.
The CONTROL we have to/do enforce ensures we stay local and therefore minimises the chance of us living in a multi-cultural/colored society. Are we by our polices a racist Island?
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Paul – exactly! The trouble with Arnald’s arguments (as has been said many times before on here) is that he/she does not have an alternative and trying to disprove a negative is impossible.
And Annabelle is also plying the same route – by living in Guernsey we are depriving somewhere else of tax revenue. Which is plainly ridiculous.
The UK is in a mess because of politicians not one or two wealthy individuals moving to the Channel Islands!
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True Greg, but not that long ago the BNP changed their bylaws to allow non-white members. At the time Nick Griffin waxed lyrical about how they weren’t racist. Yet, let’s not forget that the BNP didn’t change this by choice; not on your nelly mate – it was changed by legislation!
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GD
You didn’t say where you worked but with answers like that I hope it’s not in an Advocate’s office
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I think Annabelle has a very valid point here.
Speaking objectively – and forgetting, for a moment, that it’s not all about us, and the alleged ‘benefits to the island’ more imported wealth will (apparently) bring us – what exactly will the UK Government’s view be of us welcoming UK tax exiles who, having made their huge wealth whilst resident there, have now decided to move over here to avoid paying their (increased) dues to them?
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PC and TL – GD may be wrong on a technicality, but I’m not even sure of that. All sorts of deals get done around delisting of OM property.
Developers use delisting to enable them to build higher spec apartments for OM, and many OM properties were delisted over the last few years. I know of deals done where previous OM residents (not local) have then been enabled to live LM, albeit in the same property. Maybe after fifteen years, they can remain, unrestricted to a particular property.
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Scarlett – not a lot the UK Gov can say as the Tories biggest benefactor, Lord Ashcroft, was a non dom in the BVI.
Like it or not its the way the world works.
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Scarlett,
What will Goverment think…that’s the world we live in? and it is not if they did not attract 1000′s of multi-millionaires in themselves from other countries areound the world
What do our goverment think when our wealthy individuals go and live elsewhere around the Globe? You win some, You lose some…
20 UK Expats = 1 Russian Expat Chelsea owner
Wealthy individuals spend money, need plumbers, builders, cars, invest locally and how many replace the kitchen every 3 years..
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Bob, with delisting, in return for being allowed to build a new OM house the developer has to buy an existing OM property and accept the loss in value that follows on from it being moved from OM to LM. I suppose that an occupier could be allowed to stay on in that house as a tenant in some circumstances but if they move they would have to move to another OM house.
I guess this could happen if the occupant is already a tenant and the owner sold to the developer, so that the tenant is not at fault and has not made a windfall without having to move.
You seem to be saying that the above happens but it goes against the idea of delisting – that it should be one in / one out. Because, although the tenant would not qualify for LM housing, they would be occupying that LM house until they move.
I’m not saying it does not happen, but it goes against my understanding of how delisting should work.
But the key is that there is no way that the tenant would then be able to move to another LM house.
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PC | May 28, 2010 at 1:07 pm
GD
Once open market, always open market. 15 years open does not make you local or give you the right to buy local
GG – partly joking but why not increase number of open market homes if it means the super rich can retire/live here and contribute to our economy. I may leave my island when I retire and live in France. Millions migrate
Nick Griff arguments- He could only dream of having Guernsey’s housing policy in the UK. The descriminitive nature of our policy means we will always have 95+ white Guernsey population given we do not have an immigration policy that allows eg 100 people in a year no matter how much they have or what they do and give them a local license. Quite happy for locals to live around the world but come and work in Guernsey…we give you 5 years and please leave.
The CONTROL we have to/do enforce ensures we stay local and therefore minimises the chance of us living in a multi-cultural/colored society. Are we by our polices a racist Island?
–
That’s a good thing, we’re not racist, we’re protecting our national heritage.
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PC – I don’t think that our housing controls make the island racist. After all, they restrict white Brits and Europeans as much as they do anyone else.
It is justifiable protectionism which applies to anyone who does not have connections with the island (I say justifiable despite acknowledging that its implementation can have harsh consequences for individuals)
OMG, I agree with GG!!?!
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TL – Racism isnt just about skin colour. Irish immigrants have been subject to racism in the UK as much or more than many other ethnic groups.
Racism is discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race. A race can be defined as people who belong or are believed to belong to the same ethnic stock (regardless of colour).
Personally I think the islands policies do fit the definition of racism. Its certainly got similarities to Nick Griffins ideology about border controls.
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Sorry for the double post, but doesn’t GG’s comment sound very like the same rhetoric he might use too:
“That’s a good thing, we’re not racist, we’re protecting our national heritage.”
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If only the likes of Guernsey and Jersey’s governments allowed us small personal incentives to save like ISAs that Mr Lansdown and his company Hargreaves Lansdown excellently service. Instead we are left with the jokers who pass for investment professionals in the channel islands.
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I DO HOPE VINCE CABLE IS READING ALL THESE COMMENTS
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My main concern on this issue is that if these rich people do come, they must be made to pay tax on all their income, as in many cases they are allowed to “do deals” with the states to cap their tax liability, just as the social security contributions are capped for high earners. We have a shortage of income to the states, and we also have the opportunity to help to rectify this problem. Anyone coming here to get away from paying 50% tax in the UK should be pleased to be able to live here and pay 30% less, surely.
Anyone wanting to “do a deal” is showing arrogant disregard for the community to which they are moving, wanting the benefits of living here without paying the same proportion of their income as lower earners. It’s not just to the ordinary tax payer and we will see the rich/poor divide get much worse if this situation is allowed to continue.
I would like to see 20% tax and staged social security contributions for everyone on all income, with maybe higher tax allowances for the lower paid.
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Oh yes all ye mega rich come over to Guernsey and bring the whole family with you, us Guerns will pay for your healthcare and subsidise your children at the colleges dont worry about it, we wouldn’t want YOU to pay more in tax than you should now would we.
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Gilthead, PC. Thank you, but my question was rhetorical.
We can all have an opinion on what the new UK Govt think – or choose to do about this (or anything else) – but the fact remains it’s an entirely unknown quantity to you or I.
All I can say is, it doesn’t portray us in a particularly flattering light, but hey, what’s new.
Yes, life is unfair, ‘they’ did it too yada-yada-yada, but that doesn’t mean anything at all.
I guess we will just have to continue to wait and see, ay…?
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TJ | May 28, 2010 at 5:24 pm
TL – Racism isnt just about skin colour. Irish immigrants have been subject to racism in the UK as much or more than many other ethnic groups.
Racism is discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race. A race can be defined as people who belong or are believed to belong to the same ethnic stock (regardless of colour).
Personally I think the islands policies do fit the definition of racism. Its certainly got similarities to Nick Griffins ideology about border controls.
–
You srs m8?
The English border controls are out of control, the UK is full of immigrants these days, and the government can only thank themselves for the mess they’re in, thanks for years of Labour in charge.
We can hardly sustain ourselves here, let alone letting more migrants in, the housing license works brilliantly here, but needs some fine tuning, such as adding an immigration cap.
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Normski. What’s wrong with the pension service that is offered by RATS providers?
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TJ, I am well aware of the various forms of racism, thanks. I gave one example involving colour but it was nothing more than one example.
But my point is that our Housing controls do not discriminate between races – black, white, asian, Irish, Jew are all treated equally.
There is a big difference between the Housing controls and the bile spouted by Nick Griffin – the BNP are only concerned about new cultures and colours infiltrating the UK. They do not care two hoots about an Australian moving to the UK – but would object to an Indonesian. They do not care about a German, but would object to a Kazak. Their issue is motivated by race. Our housing controls are motivated by lack of space and wanting to ensure that there is at least some affordable housing for less well-off locals. Without them we would become like the prettier Cornish villages – full of second homes for Londoners, but with added tax exiles. A side effect of our controls that it will be some time before Guernsey could be described as multi-cultiural, but that is not the motivating factor.
And anyway, immigration does not need to be about race. You can object to unchecked immigration without being racist.
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Amongst the usual ill-informed rubbish about the ever increasing number of Open Market properties (actually it is about 1800 properties and always has been) and scrounging multi-millionaires coming here for free healthcare, there are some good points. Rather than have these continual locals v incomers arguments why don’t the States publish details about the financial contribution made to the island by non-locals including, tax, social security contributions, job creation etc? Surely this information is critical to the island’s economy so somebody must compile statistics. Then we might actually know what we are talking about rather than have this continual conjecture.
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Nothing more than “Taxism” why should we pay more tax than your average Joe Potato Picker.
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Because Toni, you earn more.
If % is the same, higher earners pay more.
Why do you feel you should pay less?
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Toni Bandinee, if you’re earning extreme amounts of money why shouldn’t you pay more? You’re making a valuable contribution to society, you should be proud!
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Heres an idea to those worried about the isalnds population rise.
Why dont we dump a few of the less capable Guerns, and there are a lot lets face it, and replace them with more deserving, more capacious individuals??
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Emelianeko Fedor
Hey great idea. Shall we start with the ones that write utter meaningless garbage? see ya :)
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Yes, Emelianeko, I agree…
let’s start with people who can’t spell.
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I had the option to move to the UK to do the same job I do here. By moving to the UK I would have paid more tax, I made the decision to stay in Guernsey.
Does that make me a tax avoider/dodger?
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Scarlett
There is a difference between not being able to spell and a typo, but I agree, spelling should be part of the means test… good idea. Also included should be self-righteousness quotient and ability to incorporate other peoples views, under pressure much???
bcb
You contradict yourself (which doesnt surpirse me), as firstly you agree to my idea, yet you call it meaningless garbage all in one sentence.
Please try harder!
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Emelianeko Fedor
What about those who don’t learn from their mistakes?
Last post = “doesnt surpise”
Contradiction? Pot, kettle, black.
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Emelianeko Fedor
Agreeing with you? haha, i was being saecastic, yep you sure do need to leave.
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bcb
I’ll think you’ll find you were agreeing with me, then again I wouldnt expect you to understand. I’d have thought you’d be first on the plane.
Probably to be flown by….
Oveur
I shant be taking posting lessons from someone who cant get his email address right 2 times in a row.
Also in your your rush to point out my typo, you managed to get that wrong, so you cant really judge can you??
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Maybe you should both go…
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Emelianeko Fedor
Where did i point out your typo?
and if you think i was agreeing with you then i think you`ll find your rather deluded,
Not sure what my email address has got to do with anything, but carry on anyway.
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bcb
Try reading the post again, both of those comments were directed at another poster, if you’d read it properly you’d have realised that.
But still, thanks for proving the point I was trying to make all along.
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Emelianeko Fedor
wow you really got me there, well done.
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Emel. F.
I truly fail to see how the apparent ‘pressure’ you feel I may be under (I’m not, but thanks for the concern, anyway) or my alleged ‘self-righteousness…and (in)ability to incorporate other peoples views’ (wrong again) has to do with I – or anyone else – commenting on your obvious inability to check your ‘zbellink’ before you post.
Seriously, with links that tenuous, you should be on a game show or something.
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Come now scarlett, I dont honestly expect you to realise with any clarity your own foibles, but I assure you, I wouldnt have posted that if that was not how you come accross.
But then many people I have met during my time on this island display exactly the same tendencies and also a blind ignorance to the fact that they display them.
Please accept my apologies if any of the above contains typo’s (again I state, Typo’s are different to zbellink errors, but you in your ways seemed to have disregarded that comment, hmmmmm, maybe I wasnt so wide of the mark, I go to bed with my point happily proven) but I havent got the time to proof my posts 17 times before clicking post.
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Guys seriously, Emelieneko is a proven troll, stop feeding him!
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Yes Dean!
you are right there, and you can go to bed happily, knowing that you have proven your point. And so can i knowing that you are right.
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