Twenty is plenty near our schools
Friday 18th June 2010, 2:29PM BST.
THE road around La Houguette School is a death trap and needs to be 20mph, according to Deputy Gloria Dudley-Owen.
She was speaking at a Living Streets public meeting last night about whether Guernsey should introduce a 20mph limit in residential and urban areas of the island.
Deputy Dudley-Owen, who lives near the school, said she had seen many instances where cars just would not slow down.
‘The road past La Houguette School is extremely dangerous,’ she said.
‘I have spoken to the traffic warden at the school and he said twice there has been an incident where he was showing children across the road and cars have not slowed down.
‘What we need are solar-operated lights saying that it’s 20mph or whatever.’
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I gather that all school caretakers / traffic wardens are also Special Constables. Therefore, if they spot a vehicle driving inappropriately then they can report it, resulting in a posssible prosecution.
Why has this not happened in the two cases outlined above?
Something here is not working properly, but the answer is definitely not to reduce the limit even further
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The article states that a minority won’t slow down near the school. Dropping the speed limit to 20mph won’t stop them, it will only criminalise the majority of us who drive with care and can handle driving at 25mph and who do slow down for children.
I am the parent of a young child and the island speed limits are perfectly good enough for the majority of us responsible citizens, it’s only idiots that regularly flout the law and the do-gooders at Living Streets trying to slow us all down to a crawl who ruin it.
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I have to say I am sometimes ashamed of being in the West District, with regards to who is “representing” me.
I thought the idea to make it 25mph 24/7 was barking enough – I remember at the time people referring to plenty of areas around the world where limits change during certain hours, such as school kick out time.
To reduce it again to 20, on the road that it is, ie absolutely no accidents there at all, no danger, apart from when children are around is even more barking.
By all means do so between say 8-9am and 2.45-3.45pm, but it shouldn’t change outside those times.
It should never have been reduced from 35mph (outside the school times).
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Rue des Goddards, Castel is a 25mph road because I assume it leads to Castel and possibly Beaucamps Schools. Just before and just after 12 noon on schooldays watch the speeding cars going up and down this road. And the drivers are ? you’ve guessed it – mothers fetching their children. If you doubt me – take a look for yourself. 20mph limit will make no difference to them.
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As there have been no deaths this can hardly be decribed as a death trap.
More an over sensationalism aimed to rile up parents and doo gooders.
As paul says, lowering the speed limit will do nothing to slow down people who refuse to slow.
the current 25 mph speed limit doesn’t bother them why would an even lower limit have an effect.
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Okay – how about actually enforcing the existing 25mph speed limits? And prosecuting drivers for not giving way to pedestrians on crossings.
As a matter of fact, being as the kids aren’t in school 24hrs per day, how about using these “solar operated” speed limit signs to have a 25mph speed limit shown from 08:30 to 16:30 (say) weekdays and leaving the speed limit as 35mph at all other times? Or would that be far too sensible to be considered?
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What with all the increasing speed restrictions (or at least proposals to implement them) I really wonder if it`s worth driving on the island at all anymore!
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The environment dept. Need to learn how to design roads, the whole system around Oatlands is stupid.
‘The road past La Houguette School is extremely dangerous,’ she said.
Then design it well, and it wouldn’t be so dangerous!
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Don’t forget that changing the signs will cost probably £50 each? ( especially if the Hospital sign supplier is used)
Don’t forget also that States members now have to show in advance where the money will come from for such changes
More work for the Law officers putting back Animal welfare legislation even further
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Around schools at peak times is a nightmare, especially in the mornings when everyone is racing to work. At the Vale School they park on yellow lines and right up to the crossing at the back of the school in Rue de L’Ecole and it is so dangerous you cannot see anyone on the crossing, the school have tried to tell the parents but to no avail, so until a child gets injured I think before we start telling the general public to take care, get through to the parents, they would be the first to shout if little Johnnie was knocked over, but they are on a mission in the mornings and nothing will stand in their way.
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Spot on cynic – that excellent solution could also be applied to the roads around St Sampsons High.
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I agree there should be a lower speed limit by schools BUT only at schooltimes. Why creep along at a low speed when the kids are not there
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In the UK schools have 20mph limits indicated by a sign with the wording “20MPH when lights are flashing”. The lights are two yellow lights above and below the 20MPH roundel and flash alternately. These I believe are controlled by the School Crossing Warden and are only on for the times when children would be arriving or leaving school. At all other times the local road speed limit is in force.
Is this the solution you’re looking for?, ready made and I’m sure easy to purchase from UK.
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Oh, for goodness sake! The health and safety brigade know no bounds these days.
First we have a Piccadilly Circus of road signs and traffic restrictions that cost a small fortune and inconveniences most road users in that area deemed not ‘safe enough’ for the little darlings at one school (thus requiring their own ‘private’ walk way to school) and now this.
Seriously, if today’s chil-drun of today are so darned fragile, why not just dress them in full body armour 24 hours a day, and ban ALL TRAFFIC from the roads when school is in, out, or anything else, for that matter.
When I was a kid we used to go screaming down the frozen roads on tea trays ‘tobogans’, regularly fall out of tree houses (safely landing on our heads) and generally have a good time doing all manner of ‘unsafe’ thing that the likes of Mrs D.O. and her health and safety fascists would deem life threatening…
fact is, we’re all still here…but I did read a worrying article the other day that air was quite bad for one…
will she be trying to regulate that next, I wonder…?
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If they don’t slow down at 25 why would they slow down at 20?
I don’t think putting flashing signs are going to accomplish anything. There are already signs there pointing out the fact it’s 25mph.
There needs to be speed cameras, speed bumps and speed traps. Only when we start hearing about people being prosecuted will it sink in to be careful round that area.
I agree, however, that the area should be reduced within school starting/finishing times. So therefore maybe the flashing lights would be useful then. 8am – 9am and 2.30pm – 4pm.
Needs to be reinforced though.
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Lynnie – “There needs to be speed cameras, speed bumps and speed traps. Only when we start hearing about people being prosecuted will it sink in to be careful round that area.”
Has anybody died around that road? No?
Then why should we bother having tax money spent on such stupid things, such as speed bumps and speed cameras? Speed bumps ruin cars, and are more dangerous. The ones at Vazon are so dangerous, people think they’re zebra crossings!
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Scarlet I do agree with you to an extent. Today’s children are wrapped up in a LOT of cotton wool. However, back in the day the dangers (whilst still there) were different to what they are today. I do think there is a speeding problem on the island. And…let’s face it. It only takes 5 minutes to get anywhere are we really in that much of a hurry that we can’t wait an extra few minutes?
Whether this road needs it or not I’m not too sure, I don’t live round that area. However as there is a school it makes sense that the limit is 25/20 mph at least during school hours. Whatever the decision is I don’t think more signs are going to rectify the problem. It seems that the issue is that the road is 25mph at the moment and people are not paying attention, therefore it’s not going to make any difference if the limit was lowered to 20. The same people would still not pay attention. At some point or another it was deemed necessary to put that limit in place, it should not be up to the drivers to decide whether they will adhere to it or not. We should be preventative rather than reactive. It shouldn’t take a death for a decision to be taken that speed needs to be lowered in that area. Perhaps there have been near misses we’ve not been aware of.
Speed bumps only damage the car when you are travelling too fast. I’ve used speed bumps appropriately and have had no damage to my car. However, there are specially designed ones where when you drive over them at the correct low speed you don’t feel them. If you travel over them at a higher speed then you most definitely feel them. Also what about speed cameras? You notify the fact that camera’s are in place and people slow down. If not *flash* bill is in the post. After the first time I guarantee people would remember to brake a bit at that point.
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We are already breeding weak humans, why let nurture get in the way of the fact that we are ruining the nature of our future.
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Ok so speeding is definitly an issue over here, but this is kinda ridiculous, i agree with the standard speed limit out of school hours. However, i think that kids should have more awareness, obviously this can sound rash but if the teachers drilled it into the kids brains from an early age and the importance of road safety, it wont only help their futures be safer but it will reduce the number of accidents and needless decisions (see press article above) to be made. It wouldnt take a genius to explain this to them, maybe the police should get in to the schools earlier and specifically emphasise road safety. In a harsh way of describing it… If you hit me at 30 there is an 80% chance i’ll live… if you hit me at 40 there is an 80% chance i’ll die…technically, if she had been brought up knowing the dangers of the road, she wouldnt have stepped into the path of a moving car… i know that is a bit extreme but when you actually think about it, it could always be prevented with a bit more awareness. If they are not aware they shouldnt be walking on their own to school etc even if there is no other way the school should arrange something for them.
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Jeronimo
Very well put
However, in making kids (and parents) take a little more responsibility for their own safety, this would surely be infringing their human rights!!
Far easier to hammer the motorist, and shift the blame on to the vehicles and away from the pedestrian
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@ Scarlett:
We are not all here today though are we? Also, how many accidents happened on roads to our generation, where we were lucky enough to survive. I was knocked over on a zebra crossing;my brother outside a village school. We were 6 and 4.
Are you a parent Scarlett? I am.
Do you suffer with people driving through your street vastly exceeding the speed limit?
I fully agree that speeding offences ought to be policed more stringently and In my view should carry greater penalties. The majority of speeders appear, in my view, not to have a great deal of experience on the road or the maturity to appreciate the carnage that they can cause by showing off.
Pedestrians are vulnerable, especially small ones. We are adults and have a duty to keep them safe.
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@ Dave Haslam
At the risk of dignifying your comment with a response, Hitler held similar views about breeding didn’t he? Look how that ended up.
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EMZ. Accidents happen every day, (I know, because I WAS one – !) and there’s a variety of many more, each and every day.
It’s called life, and for the p.c. elf and safety brigade to ‘help’ us continually try to avoid that, is to avoid life entirely, and sometimes (certainly in cases like mine) literally-!
I’m not talking about residential ‘streets’ here, that affect everyone, young and old, on a 24 hour a day basis, I’m talking about schools, children, and the limited time in the day (and in the year, allowing for multifarious school holidays) when the ‘speeding’ cars you talk of may be doing 26mph in the 25 mph zone…
also of Mrs D.O.’s need to win brownie points/votes by pushing all the right popularity buttons with flag waving parents (that’d be you, your j’accuse question, ‘are you a parent (?!)…I AM (!!)’, somewhat proving my point…) by ‘fighting the cause’ for ‘children’s safety’.
There’s a lovely, big, good, bad, right and wrong world out there, EMZ, we should go and enjoy it whilst we can.
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Scarlett:
There is a rich world out there to be experienced, I fully agree, and as a parent encourage that view. Let’s hope that children are not robbed of the opportunity to do exactly that. I do not want to think of some utter idiot in a suburu – forgive the stereotype – mowing my child down needlessly.
I am not a ‘flag waving parent’ I do not have time, but I fail to see the resistence against keeping vulnerable sections of the community safe.
I do not class a person driving at 26 in a 25 zone as a serial speeder, although it is a breach of the law. The whole point of the highway code is to encourage road users to do so with care and respect to others. It is a fact that the greater a driver’s speed, the more likely an impact is to cause death. – Perhaps you had better pass me that flag after all.
I hardly think that speed limits outside schools falls into the health and safety bracket of ‘I can’t sell you that vegetarian pasty, it’s luke-warm’ or such like. It’s not comparable.
children no longer work in factories in this country, or accompany their parents whilst they work in such, as they did two hundred years ago, and as a result of such health and safety advances, far fewer children lose limbs in horrific accidents. The big, exciting world is surely a better place for that?
Scarlett, you seek to judge and pigeonhole me as an individual and that is somewhat patronising – an observation only.
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EMZ, unfortunately there are many road users out there (of all “makes”) that should never be allowed to pilot any form of vehicle – even bicycles.
Because of this it is imperative that children are taught how to use roads (etc) safely. If that is done, it won’t matter if its a 25mph zone or a 35mph zone outside schools – the children will be prepared to deal with it. This gives children a far better chance of survival than just waving 20mph signs around.
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Training does happen in Schools (Green Cross Code anyone?) yet collisions still happen. These are just children remember. They do need adult supervision at times and are not always responsible for their own safety.
Over four times as many people die each year on roads than do as a result of violent crime.
In 2008 there were just under 28,000 casualties in collisions where a speed contributory factor was reported. These include 586 fatalities and over 4,000 serious injuries, acounting for 25% of road deaths and 18% of serious injuries. (Reported Road Casualties Great Britain 2008 DfT)
Vehicle speed Pedestrians killed
20mph 5% of pedestrians are killed
30mph 20% of pedestrians are killed
40mph 90% of pedestrians are killed
Over 40mph Forget it
Around two-thirds of all collisions where people are killed or injured happen on roads where the speed limit is 30mph or less.
7 out of 10 drivers regularly break the speed limit – usually by about 5mph.
An average family car travelling at 35mph will need an extra 21 feet (6.4 metres) to stop than one travelling at 30mph.
If you hit a cyclist or pedestrian at 35mph the force of the impact increases by more than a third than at 30mph.
Reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut collision frequency by 5 per cent.
On urban roads 76 per cent of cars will exceed the speed limit if the road is clear.
It is not safer to drive faster at night. Casualty rates are double that during daylight hours due to the higher speeds because of less traffic, higher alcohol consumption, tiredness and darkness.
I really don’t think childhoods should be treated as “survival of the fittest” tests. We should be doing all that we can to reduce risks, whatever they are.
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Yes you can write statistics etc but either way, if kids are not fully aware then its going to be a neverending circle of motorists vs children/parents… Bring them up right in the first place with the awareness of the dangers of the road and use previous mistakes as lessons for them.
You say they need adult supervision… i completely agree, so why are there still accidents when children are crossing roads if parents are supervising them…? parental fault? I remember at Primary school where the teachers would not let us past the gate unless our parents were there to collect us, this was even in year 6 unless we had passed our Push bike test thing. Maybe kids walking to school unaccompanied isnt a great idea, especially along main roads where the morning rush hour traffic flies past? Perhaps its something that the community as a whole needs to bring attention to…? I dont want to cushion all the kids of today with health and safety as i think most of the time health and safety prevents kids from learning the ways of life, I’m only 20 and i remember all the stupid health and safety rules and i feel i have missed out on soo much that my dad used to do and enjoy…I think the children need to learn in a harsh way… be taught the rights and wrongs of the road, as i believe it is up to everyone to change the way they approach built up areas including schools, screw the speed limits, everyone should just go really carefully and pay attention.
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