Gary the tiler died after just one punch
Saturday 10th July 2010, 2:30PM BST.
One week after the fatal assault PC Richard Vahey and DC Gregg Stuart are part of the police drive for witnesses. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 0881984)
A SINGLE drunken punch landed Alan Baker with almost four years in prison for killing Gary Allen.
The 24-year-old was sentenced in the Royal Court yesterday after admitting manslaughter by punching 46-year-old Mr Allen down the steps outside the Albion Pub in Town on 25 November last year, causing fatal head injuries.
The victim died two days later in Southampton General Hospital after doctors realised further surgery could not save him.
Baker, who himself suffers from a brain condition partly caused by an axe attack he endured in 2003, entered an early plea for what Judge Russell Finch called a ‘rare one-punch-manslaughter’ in his summary.
Baker was jailed for 45 months.
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ONE WORD sick 45 months for someone’s life come guernsey sort it out
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Bashing a man old enough to be your father is hardly a heroic act, unless it was in self defence. Either way it is something I wouldn’t want on my conscience.
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There is no justice within Guernsey Courts, just insconsistency.
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How ridiculous!!!!! Bring over some cannabis and you get a longer sentence…how on earth can this be possible? Guernsey justice….more like Guernsey joke!
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There was a bit of a drunken brawl the older guy said something to the younger guy who then punched him. The older guy stumbled backwards and fell down some steps where he hit his head. This is the injury which killed him. Not making excuses but there’s drunken brawls all the time. This one just happened to be unfortunate where there was an accident too that ended up with a death. This is probably the reason for the reduced sentence and manslaughter charge. Before we start baying for them to throw away the key this could have easily have happened to a number of people.
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real shame bout this lad, new this tiler rlly well did gud job 4 me.
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Dave
Oh thats ok then!!!
Perhaps you would have preferred a community service order for him then.
That way when he punches the next person maybe they wont be so selfish as to not fall down a flight of stairs and killing themselvs
This is pathetic behaivour for a grown man whatever way you slice it and given that he himself has been a victim in the past suggests that he has been involved in similar situations before.
You have to ask yourself the question “why did he hit him??” He hit him because he wanted to hurt him, well he certainly did that alright.
Perhaps if people like this didnt base their whole weekend on “I got in a right tear up on saturday night, it was real good fun” (and before you say, I DO know people who are like that), then maybe town would be a safer place to go.
As for your last comment, the number of people that this could have happened too shouldnt be leaving their house. Because if they cant keep their fists to themslevles after a couple of drinks then they are clearly not fit to be out drinking.
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If any good can come from this, I hope it sends a message to those people who think they’re ‘ard and it’s fun to get drunk and start fights:
Think twice, next time it could be you in prison with someone’s death on your conscience.
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No, in fact I think the punishment fits the crime and as I posted I’m not making excuses but am purely filling in the gaps that weren’t reported.
I do find though that issues on here do become distorted and suddenly people are baying for blood for the slightest wrongdoing (or even just for not sharing the same opinion in some cases!). I realise that this is quite a serious crime but what would you prefer? A hanging? Put in prison with the key thrown away? A point made quite clear by your very emotive reply to my post Ormerman where you didn’t even do me the privilege of understanding my point before you thundered in with your mis-guided judgement.
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Dave
I assure you my comments are quite rational and in no way based on emotion, its misconceptions like that which start these altercations.
I’m not asking for they key to be thrown away, or a hanging and I would be interested to know who on here initimated as such because I havent read that level of lunacy into anyones posts and alledgedly I’m the emotive one who’s misjuding peoples posts!!!
I’m merely advocating a more fitting sentence to an abhorrent act, you must remember judicial sentences are supposed to be a deterrent for others as well as a punishment for the guilty.
I’d have said 7-10 years was more realistic, not something thats probably going to have him wandering into your local pub with a chip on his shoulder in about 4 years time.
Perhaps if half decent sentences were metered out to these thugs, then it would put more people off drunken brawls.
If you want to have a fight, do some martial arts or boxing, but then I’d expect there not to be a 20 year age difference and the other person able to fight back. But then maybe thats what puts these people off going.
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This particular person has been in prison more than he’s been out. Suddenly the length of the sentence seems irrelevant. The other x amount of years doesn’t seem to have deterred him from being an idiot.
Lifetime ban from pubs as well as a custodial sentence?
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Gotta say I agree with Dave on this one. The act, as you say, was a punch. A punch from a guy who apparently has special needs. The death was from the fall.
While horrible that someone died, fights do happen all the time. it’s just thankfully very rare that someone falls so badly.
I’m sure all of us have had moments when our blood has just boiled and we’ve had to fight the urge to lash out. I don’t accept the “moral high ground” argument that it was pathetic behaviour by a grown man…I bet we’ve all had the urge, maybe some of us have lashed out in a moment of anger and fortunately nothing has come of it…
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Lynnie, I agree with your comment. I think that is is such a shame that it is the same old people that re-offend time and time again, and unfortunately these sorts of things do deter people from going out. 1 drink turns into 20+ and fights etc break out, it happens so often…. surely something more can be done regarding the sentancings, and already he has served 7 months, just by waiting to go to court.
John Simpson – your completely right there – other crimes get more and they (more than not) are less serious….
Guernsey is just getting worse… I wish it would wake up, smell the coffee and get with the 20th century !
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I agree with Dave! Lynnie this person hasnt been in prison more than he’s been out FACT! i guarentee he wont be coming back in after this! The person who died has been in and out all his life for threatening behaviour, assaults etc, and as the press has stated the accused has mental health difficulties, he did not expect to kill someone or he would have carried on fighting!
4 years is plenty for a split second bad reaction! The reason why importing drugs is longer is because the thought process is longer SIMPLES!
Before you lot start rambling know your facts.
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Billy, what a suprise, the devils advocate stance, how predictable!
Since when has not punching people when you are angry become moral high ground??
I just thought it was decent human behaivour not to try stoving peoples heads in. Evidently being a decent person is no longer an option its just an ideology now is it Billy??
It was my understanding that Mr Baker has special needs because he was on the wrong end of another emotionally charged act of violence, so being as he’s been in these situations before you cant use that as an excuse.
And there is a massive difference between an urge and an act, special needs or not.
Lets not try and paint over this by intimating that it was an accident.
What caused the fall Billy??
The fact stands that Mr Baker was trying to hurt him, the fact that he died just means he hurt him more than he intended to, and in no way constitutes an accident, because it was a punch that led to his death, and the punch was on purpose.
Maybe if people stopped making excuses for thuggery and punishing them realistically instead of painting it over, tragedies like this wouldnt happen.
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TLife
Your post reads remakably like Billy’s
Hmmmmm
Although I find it admirable that “so many” people are supporting this drunken act of barbarism whether you want to call it a “split second bad reaction” or not, it was still a split second bad reaction intended to hurt another person, yes the outcome was unfortunate, but the intent to harm was still there.
An intent to harm I might add, that most people dont act on, even if they have those thoughts in the first place.
If you are happy to have people like this roaming around ready to fly off the handle at any moment which results in other people getting injured, then good for you!
But I’d imagine anyone trying to keep Guernsey as a nice place to be out at night, and to come on holiday would think differently.
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What utter rubbish! If you punch someone the intent is there to hurt. I do not advocate locking the gentleman up for life, but be serious…he caused the death of another person. Someone who brings over some cannabis is not causing the same harm. How anyone can say that is beyond reason. The amount of time taken to make the decision is not really relevant. If you punch someone it is with the intent to hurt and if that action leads to further harm or death, as the case may be, it is your fault! If the logic applied here is used one can have a defence for aiming for the hand but shooting someone in the heart because the wind blew and therefore your aim was accidently affected? If this man had done this to your father or brother I doubt very much that you will still think it a accident!! The other side of the issue is apparently that he has mental issues…if this is the case he is obviously prone to violence, so what will happen when he has served his time….do you want him out on the streets in case he has another “accident”?
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I have to say, any defence of the sentence metered out here is laughable, and unbeleivably tenuous!
“Split second bad reaction” cor eh la, that made me laugh, try telling that to the victims family.
I’d imagine only Brad Pitt and Ed Nortons mates could agree with anyone claiming justice has been done here.
And that says it all ;-)
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Did`nt Baker say he thought the other guy was going to hit him? if that is the case the punch he threw could have been as much in self defence as it was trying to hurt the other guy?.
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by all accounts, the defendant had a significant history that increased the risk of him reacting badly when under the influence of drinks or drugs, and provoked at the same time, which seems to have been exactly what happened. i think i understand why he hit out -loads of people do the same in the same environment week in week out, without fatal results, just by luck. i do not know why or if this man could not have been more responsible for his drinking and drugs – i suspect he may have had less ability to control his action than the deceased – we do not know full histories. notwithstanding all that, if we send him down for 30 years or whatever, does anyone think that would prevent a similar result in similar circumstances? i doubt it. the inflammatory risk of putting drunken males and / or females, with all manner of personalities, mental health and cognitive problems, together in a large vat of one of the most disinhibiting drugs around (a drug which is increasingly feted as a mainstay of our culture and economy)remains as dangerous as ever. sometimes the angle or projectory of hitting your soft head on something harder is all there is between life and death – we should not be surprised, but we choose to hang the individual rather than take collective responsibility and call for better controls on booze or better treatment for damaged people, to name but two relevant factors.
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After all these comments, so far, very few have brought in the drinking/alcohol issues.
If these guys had not been drinking so much that day then probably there would not have been such a serious result.
There has been numerous occasions when I have been out just having a few quiet pints with friends when some drunken idiot has decided to butt in to the conversation.
When this has annoyed me I am usually quite pleasant and ask them to just go away. However, sometimes they have annoyed me so much that if I had been drinking to excess I would probably have found it very difficult to keep my temper and just shoved them away. But of course we all know how even the smallest push or shove can quite easily escalate the issue.
If this situation occurs nowadays I would now try and walk away and remain calm but being in a sober or even a slightly enebreated state would still have the ability to think about the consequences.
These two obviously were not able to do this, hence the tragic result.
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Although I am in the ‘lock em up and throw away the key’ camp, a quick Google search of similar (a single punch causing the victim to hit their head on the ground) cases in the USA shows sentencing seems to vary from 1 – 5 years imprisonment. In the UK two similar cases last year received 20 and 30 months imprisonment. 45 months seems to be within the parameters for this type of crime – though I agree it isn’t long enough.
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Sorry, but there’s only one thefish!!!
Actually, I never said the death was an accident. I said it was from the fall. Not disputing the fall came from the punch. I just think that death was unintentional, hence the sentence, which may not be long enough, should certainly not have been the 10 years – life that some might wish.
So, good attempt Ormerman at putting words in my mouth – try again!
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Nobody has yet mentioned that prison sentences are usually something you only serve half of
So 45 months will actually mean 23 months.He’s already served 7 months on remand so he will be back in a pub near you well before Christmas 2011
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Ormerman – since when are humans perfect? How often do they make mistakes? How often is something unintentional done? If you can put up your hand and say you’ve never done anything you regret then you’re very much a minority. I don’t think anyone on here is supporting the act but rather understand why the sentencing was what it was. This person meant to harm the other; did he mean to kill the other? No. Did he use force which without the other circumstances would have killed him? No. Therefore the punishment should be relative and yes there should be a punishment no one is disputing that. A gun is designed to cause more damage than a fist. As is a knife. These items if used in this context are used with the intention to cause serious harm. One punch is usually not life threatening.
In this instance I agree with Dave. The punishment fits the crime. And from Some Bloke’s post it looks to be in fitting with other jurisdictions.
If the guy was not punched then yes he most likely would not have died. However did the person die because he was punched? No. The person died because he was a bit mouthy, got punched, fell down some steps and hit his head. There’s a lot more involved there than just the punch. He probably wouldn’t have died if he hadn’t of said whatever he said, or was standing as close to the steps, or if he wasn’t so drunk. It was all these factors together which resulted in the unfortunate death. This is what I presume was noted during the sentencing hence the length.
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Billy
At least we agree that the sentence may not be long enough.
Lynnie
Wow thats a huge change of stance from you in the space of a couple of days.
you have gone from
“The other x amount of years doesn’t seem to have deterred him from being an idiot.
Lifetime ban from pubs as well as a custodial sentence?”
And changed to
“since when are humans perfect? How often do they make mistakes?
The punishment fits the crime”
Do you need me to point out the huge contradictions in there??
You yourself have previously intimated that he’s a repeat offender, but now you will be happy for said accused repeat offender to get a paltry sentence.
Your backtracking and contradictory stance for me I find odd and somewhat out of character.
To that end I wont bother answering the individual points in your post because for one its just going over what I and other people have already posted. And two, who’s to say you wont come back on here in a couple of days with another completely different opinion??
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OMG he wasnt even drunk! Get the facts people! He has an illness that has only just been highlighted and he wasnt medicated for it! So hopefully he will not react in this way again. Baker felt threatened and unfortunately hit him in the right place which led to him falling down the steps.
Ray – 2/3s he will be released in guernsey not half the sentence like UK!
Everyone else – sentences for drug offences are right as probably somewhere down the line someone would have been raped, killed, assaulted, victim of theft and it will probably carry on until the drugs have been used. But then you have other issues like unemployment, mental health issues, the cost of one single drug addict is incredible.
Ormerman – you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about! Probably no one listens to your opinion so you feel you must off load!
Without being disrespectful but like Lynnie said “No. The person died because he was a bit mouthy, got punched, fell down some steps and hit his head”
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TLife
Clearly you are listening to my opinion else you wouldnt have felt the need to reply.
Kind of makes that sad little snipe redundant. But thank you for worrying about my right to be heard nonetheless.
The fact that he wasnt drunk makes it worse in my opinion, you are just making his case sound worse, at least being drunk could potentially be a mitigating circumstance??
As for your last comment, are you now saying it was a suicide??
Obviously Mr Finch was completely wrong and Mr Baker is not culpuable at all if you excuse makers have your way. He should have got off with a caution!!
As for me not knowing what I am talking about, the very same could be said about your extreme generalisations about drugs, which shows more blinkered dogma and “Take a Break” style sensationalism than any of the above posts about this particular incident.
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No contradiction from my point of view. Perhaps it was your interpretation.
From what I understand this is a repeat offender (I’m unsure if his previous crimes are violence related) therefore it appears that ‘jail time’ is not doing what it’s supposed to do. So what do we do? Keep him in for longer at a cost to the taxpayer? That’s all anyone is debating on here the fact that he should be inside for longer. However, I would say that 40 months for this particular crime in this situation seems a reasonable amount of time. I support Dave’s comment of the punishment fits the crime in regards to the jail sentence.
If what TLife says is right then perhaps a pub ban is not relevant either. If the act was alcohol fuelled and he has a history of violence then I would have thought he would be on the pub watch scheme and is banned from the participating pubs once he’s out.
What punishment would you have suggested Omerman?
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I am very interested in the comments made about my brothers death. Were any of you present? Did any of you know him?
Big Sis
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How tragic, that one punch can change so many lives forever.
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he will be in a pub watching the next world cup, that can’t be right for taking a life intentional or not
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Lynnie
All along I’ve gone with 7 years, and I also made it clear that a longer sentence would serve as more of a deterrent for some eyeing up a bit of fisticuffs.
Yes its more taxpayers money, but if that deterrent stops even 1 fistfight where lets face it, there is always a chance however slim of tragedies like this happening, then you may have saved a life.
Aileen
Very sorry for your loss, alas most of the commenters here only have 3rd party evidence to go on.
The crux of my comments on here are that the perpetrator got off a little lightly.
Good luck for the future, and I hope that you and your family can move forward from this tragedy.
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So tragic that one punch can change so many lives forever is so true. We think of Gary often and miss him. Regards to you and your family Aileen.
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Thank you Gail Kerr and Greg Falla you both knew him.
Gary’s death came as a huge shock to me and his Brother Andy. I didn’t find out until 30th April and nobody in the Leicester family circle knew either. We would like to say a sincere Thank You to everyone that has helped him, been a friend to him and supported him.
Gary was cremated on 15th February in Southampton with only his Father and two others present. His Dad chose not to tell anyone else of the death for his own reasons.
Our Brother Gary was no angel but he deserved better than being dispatched from this world without his friends and all his family around him.
Gary’s ashes are now buried in his Mum’s grave and I hope he feels we have done our best for him, what was done was done with a lot of love.
Rest in Peace Gary.
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The moral of the story is……if you can’t handle your drink then don’t drink………if you can’t act like a decent human being when out…. Then stay in and get help…..there is no excuse for this kind of behaviour it is disgusting I have no respect for people who act like this.
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