Heritage storage is ‘an embarrassment’
Wednesday 28th July 2010, 2:28PM BST.
THE storage conditions of Guernsey’s heritage is an embarrassment that needs to be dealt with, according to museums director Jason Monaghan.
Museums director Dr Jason Monaghan, left, with Culture and Leisure minister Mike O’Hara at the cluttered Baubigny Arsenal store. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1004860)
Local museum pieces are stored in several sites but all need upgrading. The issue will be discussed at today’s States meeting, following a report condemning the current situation.
Baubigny Arsenal is one of the worst storage sites.
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Museums Services adn Archives does a wonderful job, probably the only place that’s properly behind Guernsey’s long and varied history.
However, don’t be scared of rationalising and indeed dumping or selling that which is junk. There looks like an upturned table behind Jason and last time this was on the news there was some reference to a fossilised mammoth’s tooth.
You can pick up tables anywhere and mammoth’s teeth are available on ebay. I’ll give you £150 for the table.
Good luck C&E, keep up the good work, but take a view on your ye-oldie-worldy steam boiler and the loo that James de Sausmarez might have sat on in 1735!
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I agree with Neil
Arrange a very special auction day at Saumarez Park or Sausmarez Manor
Make it a family outing. Charge a couple of quid for parking and get the bean jar ladies on the go
All proceeds to go towards looking after the stuff that really does have a link with the island
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Neil – Read the billet item http://www.gov.gg/ccm/cms-service/download/asset/?asset_id=13584282 in full and you’ll see that rationalisation is at it’s core
Ray & Neil – The items you mention may not appear to have particular “Guernsey” interest. They are probably part of collections by people like Guille, Alles or Lukis, that’s the link that generates their significance.
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Come on Cliff, both Neil and Ray are spot on. Most of this stuff is totally irrelevant to Guernsey’s heritage. It’s been languishing for decades in some darkened room, gathering cobwebs all the while, and 99 per cent of us have been blissfully unaware of its existence until now.
What I would do is tell the museums service to sort out the few decent and meaningful bits from all the junk/irrelevant items. I would tell them further that they must reduce this pile by 9 tenths – down to the 10 per cent that really matters.
The £1million can be saved for a much better use (like housing the Asterix) and the funding for the sorting exercise can be accrued from selling the rejected items that do have some value to the highest bidders. Job done.
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Cliff
I’m guessing here but I doubt that visitors would come from far and wide to gaze at a broken spearhead given as a 21st birthday present in 1809 to Frederick Lukis by a Matabeleland chieftan
An old ormering hook on the other hand ……
Sort out the dross and there will be so much less to hold in storage
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Neil, Ray and Martino have put the case perfectly in my opinion, nothing more to be said. Let the auctions begin!
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Ray, Martino & Paul – I visit this site a lot but limit my posts to things that I either know about or believe I can contribute some reasoned debate to.
It is clear that you’re all keen to comment on nearly every subject (and I admit that’s part of the point of this site). You must all accept however that the real world operates in a totally different way to your simplistic little worlds. Leave the monitors and keyboards behind and experience some of it, perhaps visit one of our great museums.
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Cliff
I’m not quite sure which of us is in fact living in the practical world and which one is living in a dream world
I would expand but I don’t think I know enough words of one syllable to be able to get through to you that what you see on display in our great museums is the cream of the crop
Put the dross on display and you would soon have empty museums.Get rid of that dross and look after the important stuff properly
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Cliff, I appreciate your obvious passion for and knowledge of old objects but I can’t accept your assertion that those of us without your level of expertise have nothing worthwhile to say on this subject.
In areas like this, with the museum service demanding millions of pounds of taxpayer money at a time when our government faces a huge structural deficit, a certain degree of detachment is required.
I’ve read the billet item now and it is clear to me that a culture of ‘keep at all costs’ has pervaded the museums service until this moment. With obvious reluctance you have now grasped the need for rationalisation but those of us looking in from the outside are right to question whether you have gone far enough.
Reading between the lines of the billet I can detect a huge amount of sentiment for keeping objects including many that have nothing really to do with our island and our part of the world. I believe we have no business keeping hold of things plundered in centuries past from Africa and elsewhere any more than the UK has any business keeping the Elgin marbles, which belong in Greece.
So let’s ditch the sentiment along with the spoils of cultural imperialism and concentrate instead on objects like the Asterix that really do belong here. Or maybe you can convince us otherwise?
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Cliff
Thanks for the link and good that you are rationalising; I believe it was mentioned in the extended article.
Hopefully the rationalisation will include the steam boiler, the mammoth’s tooth, the table and the toilet pan (back shot) of this article.
PS: Was at Fort Grey with the kids today – top spot
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Cliff
Your argument must be truly weak to have to dispense with reason and launch into ignorant, personal attacks. For the record, although I probably do spend a little too much time putting fingers to keyboard, you will be pleased to know I have been able to extricate myself away from my PC screen long enough to visit, among many others, the following great museums: The Natural History Museum, London; The Science Museum, London; The British Museum, London; The Pergamon Museum, Berlin; The Israel Museum, Jerusalem; The Egyptian Museum, Cairo; The Livingstone Museum, Zambia. I have also visited some of the great wonders of the world such as the Pyramids and Great Wall of China.
Back to the issue at hand, if I may. It is because the likes of Martino, Ray and myself live in the real world that we understand the need to prioritise spending. In the ideal world resources would be plentiful enough for all our wishes however this is not the case. Although I love history, I do not need a Masters Degree in archeology to appreciate that the priority should always be to take care of the living first.
Why should we spend millions preserving old artifacts with tenuous links to the island (some of which, in all honesty, are unlikely to ever see the light of day again) when there are people on this island denied adequate mental health care? Surely it is better to sell them off to the highest bidder rather than waste millions storing them out of public view, or worse, leave them to rot? You never know, perhaps by selling them off they may end up on public display elsewhere, rather than sitting in an expensive storage facility on Guernsey?
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“I believe we have no business keeping hold of things plundered in centuries past from Africa and elsewhere any more than the UK has any business keeping the Elgin marbles, which belong in Greece. So let’s ditch the sentiment along with the spoils of cultural imperialism and concentrate instead on objects like the Asterix that really do belong here.”
I agree Martino, priority should definitely be to keep artifacts with solid links to the island, such as the Asterix. There is no point in wasting money preserving old junk simply because it happened to belong to someone who lived here.
I have some sympathy with your view on the Elgin Marbles. There is no argument that they originated in Greece and the Greeks want them back. I wonder how the British would react if someone wandered off with the Crown Jewels?
Incidentally, speaking of the Crown Jewels, what is your view on the Koh-i-Noor diamond? I think this is a slightly different case to the Elgin Marbles, given its history of moving between different countries.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10802469
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We all have different ideas of right and wrong, and we all think this belongs here or there.
I love history, so with out being nasty about it it’s about time that this affair of the Island belong by chance to the UK, which in any case was also stolen from the Brits.
However all that apart, and awaiting with baited breath for answers probably sarcasm.
May I point out if you go to Google and write LUKIS then on the PDF you will have a history about Lukis house; and the connections with Guernsey. quite interesting.
Oh I relish nasty replies to my letters; it’s the spice of life to be ridiculed.
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All – some of you assume that I work for Heritage but I post here as someone that is passionate about all aspects of the islands history. I’m glad I’ve started some reasoned debate instead of the usual self rightous piousness.
I have taken the trouble to find out the problems that face the local museum and my views, similar to your own initially, have changed. The simple fact is that the museum has been underfunded for years and this is catch up. As for suggesting we as an island can’t afford this extra funding, I’m of the view can we afford not to? There are unquantifiable advantages that the museum and its operations bring to the island. How many would visit without our rich history How much does this put into our economy? The vast majority of our tourists visit a museum or historical site.
Paul – how much in the British Museum is British?
Martino – there is no evidence that asterix ever traded with the island, it could have just been sheltering from a storm. It’s link with the island could be described as tenuous.
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Cliff – Your point about the Asterix is reasonable, as are your opinions. As you point out, we are probably not too far different in our views. I agree entirely with you that Heritage is important, however for me I quantify that with the following:
- what is truly Heritage? I believe the word “heritage” is banded around far too often in an attempt to tug on the heart strings. Take the Telephone Museum – is telecommunications really Guernsey Heritage? I would argue no – it is human heritage and no more Guernsey than the electronic toaster. Other examples of dubious “heritage” have been listed above by Neil Inder, and I agree with his view entirely.
- in difficult times, as Martino pointed out, we must ditch some of the sentiment. For example, Culture and Leisure are talking about stopping the Beau Sejour Crèche due to lack of funds. I would argue that the crèche is a far more important facility for the island than storing a load of old relics with tenuous links to the island. The crèche allows mothers to exercise and socialise after childbirth, something that has PROVEN long term benefits to physical and mental health.
I do respect your views, and sorry if I went “off on one” a little – I guess I still take myself a little too seriously at times. All I would say is, don’t write people off as simplistic just because they don’t happen to have reached the same conclusion as yourself, or happen to like contributing to these forums a little too often! It is unbecoming of someone of your obvious intelligence.
Oh, and as for the British Museum – very little! :-)
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A fair point re the Asterix Cliff. My understanding is that Guernsey was an important stopping off point on the Roman trading route and that the Asterix had direct links with the island. The island therefore is the wreck’s rightful resting place.
If Lukis had been Elgin or Caernarvon and had taken the Greek Marbles or King Tut’s treasures from their rightful resting places I (along with Paul) would be at the forefront of the campaign to return them to their proper homes. Lukis plundered nothing as important as these amazing treasures but the principle remains the same. Because an historic item or artifact was secured from another part of the world by a Guernseyman does not mean that it has any right to remain here.
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I have to agree with you ( Paul & Martino) if a country made a valid request for an item to be returned then that would be the ethical thing to do (and probably in the rule book for museums). Part of the extra funding (according to the Billet) would help to explore these issues and identify items that may qualify.
As to the Asterix I would love to see it forming the centre piece of a museum locally, perhaps a St Peter Port interpretation centre, but I don’t think it’ll happen. As you rightly say health, education etc all come first. Another thing to consider is can Guernsey do the wreck justice with the amount of visitors it would get? I personally think it’d be better displayed somewhere else with a far greater footfall, helping to put Guernsey on the map.
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I think more money should be pumped into the heritage museums, more martellos should be open for the public, and german bunkers restored. It’s one reason tourists would return.
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May I, in all honesty, and certainly not wishing to deny the ‘Experts’ about this ‘yer Roman boat.
What proof is there that it is Roman, because of it’s build?
Well the Viking ships sailed even to ‘Constantinople’ and the ships were copied, with a few alterations.
look up Google- there you will see many ships. many nearly alike, I think it is more a probable to be a Viking ship than a Roman ship. but there again I’m no expert. but I have seen Viking Boats.
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