‘Hitler’ slur boss might leave Sark
Friday 6th August 2010, 2:30PM BST.
A SARK resident responsible for a multi-million pound investment programme in the island is considering whether to remain in the island after a poster campaign in which he was depicted as Hitler.
Sark Estate Management managing director Kevin Delaney, whose company’s investment programme has poured millions into island projects, said he has been deeply affected by posters circulating in the island depicting him as Adolf Hitler. Business interests include, clockwise from lower left, the Dixcart Hotel, Beauregard Cottage, a vineyard and the Brecqhou Warrior. (Montage by John O’Neill)
Sark Estate Management managing director Kevin Delaney said the images put up around the island had affected him immensely.
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Good – the sooner he leaves the better as he is no asset to Sark.
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“If he can’t take it he shouldn’t give it”
This poor sensitive soul desperately needs a wake-up reality check and a personality by-pass.
He has simply been likened to Charlie Chaplin in ‘The Great Dictator’. That was a satirical spoof, and this is a satirical spoof of a satirical spoof! He has, therefore, been double spoofed!
When will this man’s paranoia allow him to realise that if he continues to turn out the inaccurate, biased and intimidating weekly tosh in the guise of the laughingly entitled ‘Sark News’ he will continue to fuel an anti-campaign based on mockery, spoof and satire.
And yes, he will continue to be likened to Charlie Chaplin in ‘The Great Dictator’.
If he doesn’t like the game in Sark, he should take his big balls and play in another park.
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People who are upset and leaving generally leave.
If instead you call the local paper to talk about how you’ve been treated unfairly and might be leaving, then you’re likely staying.
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Where can we contribute to the cost of his ticket?
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Sarkee
What a pathetic comment. If SEM pulled out totally the island would literally be ruined. All you’d be left with is a load of closed down businesses and no tourists to bring in any income.
Quite frankly some of you deserve that.
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Phil
You must be one of the few who have been taken in by the propaganda machine. As a true Sarkee who has lived on Sark all my life I feel I am justified in making that comment. The majority of Sark residents are absolutely disgusted by Kevin Delaney’s sustained written personal attacks on our hard working conseillers and others. Sark people will not be bullied.
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Phil, just because a less affluent future for Sark minus Sark Estate Management doesn’t appeal to some, doesn’t make it wrong for everyone, or ‘ruined’…
anyway, the article doesn’t say his COMPANY are considering leaving (which is hogwash, as Danno said) , simply that HE was throwing his toys out the pram….sorry, ‘considering leaving’…
as for Sark’s attitude, well, Sark never actually asked SEM to come in and ‘save’ them by taking over the island, so how grateful should they be, exactly?
Sark and its sister isles were surviving wars and god knows what else long before the likes of SEM (in the case of Sark) and the finance industry (in the case of Guernsey and Jersey) turned up on their less than white chargers to hold us all to ransom with their not so hidden self serving agendas motivating every apparently benevolent gesture, and will, somehow, long after they have gone….
if it’s a case of evolve or die, then the CI’s have a proven track record of being able to roll with the punches, that, mon viel, I know – for sure-! :0)
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Phil.
Hang On. We’ve been here before. When will the boss of SEM realise that he can’t persistently insult people and expect to be welcome as part of the Sark community?
There is another way to win friends and influence people other than a campaign of blatant bullying and propaganda.
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Sorry, it was all wonderful before they arrived wasn’t it? Year round employment for all, well kept buildings, genuine businesses etc etc.
The Sark lark is over or don’t you know that? All of the people who made fortunes out of that are very nicely off, what about those who didn’t?
Just who do you think is going to employ all these people if and when SEM leave? Nobody, that’s who, and it’ll back to the old days of locals having to leave the island to find work.
If that’s what you want then fair enough, but don’t claim that SEM are bad for the island because they want to see some transparency of Government. It’s a ridiculous claim.
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If Kevin Delaney wishes to leave Sark because he has been the subject of a mild joke then he has little common sense. John Major, who occupied a rather more important position in the UK than Mr Delaney, was very annoyed by the cartoons in the Guardian, by Steve Bell, which depicted him wearing underpants outside his trousers, as a Pooterish version of Superman. But Major, annoyed though he was, never sued the Guardian.
It has not been mentioned in this news story, But John Hunt, a member of Chief Pleas was arrested for merely printing this comic image!
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I appreciate that the Sark lifestyle may well be the very thing that attracts people to live there, and that’s not for us to criticise. Its a personal choice. I can see that many Sark residents do not view the massive external investment in Sark to be a positive thing as far as they are concerned. For those people, money is not very relevant to them, beyond what they need to exist and lead the quite island lifestyle which appeals to them.
However, the feudal, undemocratic running of the island is a separate issue altogether, and it is impossible for Sark to survive without evolving to become more transparent and more democratic.
Is it impossible for Sark to become more democratic and more transparent without the external investment? In other words, can it change politically without having to change economically?
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I am with you all of the way Phil.I presume that the rest of the writers are happy to go back to the good old days of no work in the winter, cheap garden labour, window cleaning etc.etc.
As for transparency. Unless people stick their heads out of the sand and point out that there is still no tranparency on Sark, will it ever come to Sark?
At least there is another ‘voice’ on Sark not scared by the retired incomers who have taken over plus a few older working souls still on island.
Again, unless someone points out the current problems about ‘behind closed doors decisions’ it will continue as now, all run from closed committee rooms – used to be the Bel Air!
As for Sark never asking for them to come over – well most were, and still are, happy selling off their ‘inheritance’ at a high price to anybody that will buy – including SEM.
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Let him go. There will be celebrations for months.
It is undoubtable that SEM have made many improvements
to Sark, they have also made many mistakes.
Employing Mr Delaney as a representative has to be
the most significant.
Sark was self sufficient before he arrived, and this
will continue long after the dust has settled.
If HE was to go, it is possible that
some more people would actually embrace the
actions of SEM! Even if SEM was to depart, then yes,
if their properties were to be closed, of course this will
have a negative effect on the immediate future
of the island, but contrary to popular belief, they do
not own every business on the island, many yes, but
not all. The community would gather around and
look toward their future without having to tolerate
the small mindedness of one individual. I know I reflect
the sentiment of many when I say ” please go Kevin Delaney”.
And good luck to you in the future.
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Scarlett;
Oh you made my day.
That was good stuff you wrote there, and every word carefully chosen to give maximum force to what seems a curse to our Island homes.
Finance? just another word for bullying
I’m a Guernsey, but think of Sark as I did in those war years.
I have admired them and say well done get rid of that chaff, and keep only the corn.
It’s the corn that has value.
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reakon phils MR KD himself? eh
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Is this the same chap who writes that truly awful ranting rag that slates pretty much everyone in the Sark Government? I forget its name but it masquerades as a newsletter and sits on the front desk of a certain hotel near the harbour.
I have rarely read such awful rhetoric and drivel and if Mr Delaney is the man responsible, he should consider taking the rather large plank out of his own eye before complaining about what is, after all, a pretty minor jibe.
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Yes WWII was bad, I had relatives that died, but now I have german friends, I holiday there, they are fully accepted back into the international community, there are graphic WWII documentaries on most days of the week.
My point…. Why do people still insist on being so upset by anything surrounding Hitler??
Why is this so offensive??
Crikey, day by day there are less things to poke fun about, such a fuss about this?? Some bosses I’ve had in the past would consider it a compliment ;-)
Take it in the spirit it was meant (a joke), get over yourself and move on!
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Yet again we hear the same old cry from “big money” – if you don’t do as I say,
I’ll take all my money away.
Can anyone really be so naive as to think that they are being altruistic?They are investing money in Sark and that means that they expect to make a profit(or save on their tax bill).
Nice to read here that Sark people will not be bullied – good for you I say!
Power to the People.
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Well Steve-0
Of course you have the right to choose your friends and the way in which you holiday-
However if your memory is so short, then it couldn’t have been too bad.
But did you actually suffer bodily,. mentally and altogether with so deep a hatred of that nation of criminals as it was then, that you now feel friendly toward them.
Well I can never forgive. What is more I don’t want to forgive.
Tell you what- take a little time and visit Castle Cornet, go down deep. take a walk along the Prisoners walk, and to cells at the end of that walk. Then stop and think; what do you think could happen there for weeks on end, no Steve-0 I cannot ever forgive a nation gone mad, as they were.
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Sark coped before SEM arrived and Sark will cope after SEM have gone.
Mr Delaney is NOT the Messiah. He is a carpenter from Essex. A number of memorable things have come out of Essex including the A12 and ferries to the Hook of Holland.
Why did SEM choose to invest in Sark if it is so corrupt and dreadfully mis-managed?
There are some things that money cannot buy and Sark and the Sarkees are two of them.
Note to KD: remember the mistakes of December 2008.
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When will the truth out? Sark is, was and will be successful with or without the investment toward the Island, which I will add, is largely invested in bricks and mortar for the properties of SEM, who will generally reap the rewards of future income as a result of this investment. Should these businesses close, will people stop coming to our lovely island? Ask yourself, have they stopped coming now? Even though, as a result of SEM developments there is actually less beds available on the island due to staff accommodation, no. People are still coming in consistent numbers. SEM did not invent tourism on sark, or the lobster salad neither the home grown vegetables. As yet nothing has been achieved. Although it is purported that they have almost reinvented the wheel on Sark, NO YOU HAVE NOT!
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Having followed this subject over the past few months with no friends on either side.
I cannot get my head round the fact that 3 policemen were sent from Guernsey to investigate the complaint. I would love to know how much that cost the Guernsey taxpayer.
If i had gone into Guernsey Police H.Q. and complained that someone had tied a satirical spoof about me on the Vazon Bay bus-stop, i am pretty sure i would be laughed out the station and down the road.
It certainly does not make sense or am i missing something.
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my impressions … are that wealthy sark incomers and a few old wealthy locals used to rule the roost and sark working class people used to doff their caps and accept their lot(after all there are worse places to live and what could they do politically anyway?). then brecqhou got sold and the castle built and expensive lawyers hired to bring about serious change to sark – resulting in political justice and economic injection. it should have been win win. but mr delaney is clearly a disaster and some sark grandees not too bright (if guernsey politicians posterd up guernsey entrepeneurs as adolf they would would surely be severely sanctioned by the local assembly). i am getting cross thinking about this – sark is a beautiful place and ordinary sark people need better from the power mongers. i think delaney needs to go and his effigy-pokers need to resign, but only if all the puppet masters install pragmatists and accept compromise. until that happens maybe we just turn away and focus on the pakistan flood victims.
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Unrequied, unwanted, uninvited pull the plug now! Let us carry on with life as we knew it. Yes we could be the cote du sur of the channel islands, but where is the logic in losing our beautiful island? There is none.
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Phil
Regarding your comment about SEM pulling out totally & the island being literally ruined. All we’d be left with is a load of closed down businesses and no tourists to bring in any income.
Surely this would only happen if S.E.M deliberately Kept these businesses closed, rather than selling or leasing them on.
The hotels, shops & other businesses they now posess, have not always been owned by them. The previous owners ran these successful businesses and would have had staff to operate them during their time as proprietors. It’s nothing new, just new employers.
The only difference is, that because S.E.M controls so many of Sark’s businesses, if they were to just close everything down (like they have done temporarily before) they know that they will obviously harm our economy & the livelyhood of many of our residents.
Would this be the action of a caring employer, or indeed a financially astute company?
And would this be the action of anyone who cares about Sark?
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One man and his blog. Why all this fuss over a Charlie Chaplin spoof?
Shame on the GP for giving this man the opportunity to aire his personal grievances on the front page of the local newspaper.
The GP have fallen for the trap and are pampering to the propaganda.
Time for a reality check. The ‘Sark Newsletter’ are the mis-guided rantings and ramblings of one man.
‘Calm down, dear’ and remember the errors of history.
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I’m not a Sark resident but I have came across the “Sark Newsletter” whilst researching the island simply to visit. I’ve never came across such a ghastly piece of offensive writing within such a small community.
I imagine he creates a lot of division on the small island and much ill feeling.
I can only imagine how unpleasant it must be to live there. This latest development appears to be little more than a threat to ruin the island by pulling SEM out? But from what I gather the average Sark resident got on just fine BEFORE all this investment and they are not hugely interested in money or material things? I thought that’s what Sark was all about!
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It seems to me that SEM are trying to purchase votes where in the future they will have Sark totally tied into their hands both financially and politically.
This is not a game but big business where there is always an ulterior motive.
They are doing this to eventually make profit, and if they tread over people in the process so be it.
When they have gained the political power Sark will be totally at their mercy.
This my friends is how they have made their billions over the years.
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Samantha
I’m not a Sark resident but I have came across the “Sark Newsletter” whilst researching the island simply to visit. ….I can only imagine how unpleasant it must be to live there. This latest development appears to be little more than a threat to ruin the island by pulling SEM out? But from what I gather the average Sark resident got on just fine BEFORE all this investment and they are not hugely interested in money or material things? I thought that’s what Sark was all about!
Samantha
I have a lot of sympathy with your points of view. I too did what you did and then visited Sark. I too thought that Sark would be different, not hugely interested in money or material things.
The experience was rather different. Two banks on an island of 600 people. The cashier in one of them was brusque to the point of rudeness.
The Avenue is a tacky street rather more reminiscent of the one horse, one street, mid Western style towns of Arizona. Unlike Arizona it is full of overpriced shops with equally unfriendly owners.
Restaurants and hotels. So expensive I would have needed a second mortgage. The staff weren’t particularly unfriendly. They just couldn’t speak English.
I, for one, will not return to Sark and if I were Mr Delaney I would book passage on the next boat out to anywhere and leave the Sarkese to fester quietly which is what they wish to do.
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The Guernsey Press appears to have become an arm of the Barclay Propaganda machine. Shame on it!
Did Gordon Dawes or Kevin Delaney actually write yesterday’s editorial?? It beggers belief that so much publicity is given to this incident when nothing is ever said about the rantings of the Sark Newsletter.
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Having read the Guernsey press article and comment and Mr Delaney’s letter I think the point that everyone is making is that Sark is not a democracy and never has been so.
Spoofs are fine but the subject of Hitler is still anathema to most of those who DID suffer badly in WW2. Sark did not suffer on the scale of France, Holland, Poland, Coventry, the East End of London, to mention but a few, and I think I might be offended if someone printed posters of me likened to the man who ordered the extermination of six million people in places like Bergen-Belsen and Auschwitz.
Sark was not particularly mistreated at all by the Germans and indeed I believe the Dame of Sark remained friendly with the German commanders after the War had ended and stayed at their homes in Germany. So maybe the Sarkese do not understand that spoofs are one thing, likening folk to one of the most ruthless cruel inhumane dictators of all time is quite another.
Let us hope that Mr Delaney does not have Jewish friends who suffered in the War. My mother had a Jewish friend who eventually died insane after witnessing the atrocities perpetrated on her family by Hitler. I suspect that this would not be the case for any inhabitant of Sark and that at best they simply do not understand the abhorrence caused by reference to Hitler. If they do then they must be a cruel people indeed.
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I always thought that SEM was actually owned by the Barclays, with KD as the manager. If that is right, then him leaving would be nothing more than a change of management.
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Having read Mr Delaney’s Open Letter as published on the Sark Newsletter website I have to say I’m a little confused as to what his role is? Is he a caterer, editor or political campaigner? Or maybe all three?
If, as he states, SEM is investing £9m into the island they’ll be wanting to make a return on this investment. If Mr Delaney goes he’ll be replaced.
As for developing the island’s tourist industry, all the negative publicity over the past few years has kept from bothering to visit somewhere that I perceive to be simply an embittered and negative place.
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Well I cannot add anything more to those so well balanced Letters,
But this I will say. Sark has managed right from the day that Elisabeth the 1st gave permission to populate the Island.
Since then they have managed in their own way (as it should be.)
You’ll get by without him.
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…is it just me, or is it that ‘the voice of islanders’ in our daily Press (that not only gave Mr Delauney the front page of Friday’s Press, but also a full page for his letter) almost invariably appears to express, with it’s supposedly ‘moderate’ views, a most distinctive air of support for our mates in the castle trying to single handedly take over our sister isle…?
In Friday’s ‘Opinion’, there was hardly any reference to how offensive to most of the island the regular denigrating of the Sark establishment their regular newsletter is (which surely makes a few posters pale into insignificance by comparison), and a general air of the Sark ‘peasants’ quite simply, being revolting…
…one thing I do agree with is the thought, ‘what IS going on in Sark – and what part do the Guernsey authorities have in it?…
indeed, ‘what ARE we doing about the systematic take over of Sark, and are we going to just stand by and let Sark get into the same sorry state that we’ve gotten ourselves into with a certain predominant industry that resides here, just because they have more money than the rest of us?!
I would genuinely like to know who EVER said that becoming the islands main employer gave SEM some sort of god given right to start dictating how it’s going to be, telling them what they ‘must’ accept, whilst insulting our collective intelligence with their smoke screen of missionary zeal, ‘never mind if they don’t want it, we’re doing it for their own good’, bull?
Seems that, ironically, pretty much the only ones who’ve had the wool pulled over their eyes are the same ones allowing this ‘gentleman’ column space for his propaganda.
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I’ve taken another look at the Sark Newsletter, and find it puzzling how a constant topic (aside from writing nasty things about individuals) is how Sark isn’t truly democratic, and how terrible the situation is (even despite recent changes), as if the locals are oppressed by dictators. You would be forgiven for thinking KD wasn’t George Bushes cousin, spear-heading the drive for democracy and regime change. The way I see it, the only oppression I see is by KD/SEM. As I said in an earlier post, I’ve yet to visit Sark so can only comment as an external observer – but didn’t the old system on Sark work fine for hundreds of years until these outsiders turned up with their ideas?
It’s frankly, rather embarrassing.
Wishing all the good folk of Sark the best of luck, and hope that the isle’s worst days will soon be behind it.
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Concur with above comment (by Scarlett). I also am bemused at the GP’s attitude. Are they frightened? Doesen’t come across as ‘balanced’ journalism at all.
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Samantha
The medieval feudal system did work on Sark for hundreds of years; although the serfs might not have benefitted as much as the seigneurs.
The fact remains that Sark is not, and never has been a democracy. If that is the way the Sarkese want it, then that is fine, but don’t complain and criticise if journalists say the island is not a democracy. They are simply stating a fact.
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In fact, despite Mr Delaney’s rantings, Sark happens to be one of the most democratic places on earth. There are 28 Conseillers representing just 600 people including children and babes in arms. What got under dear Kevin’s skin is that he didn’t manage to get elected himself!
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It seems to me that most are missing the point here. Surely what the GP was saying was that the benefit of £9m investment was worth Sark exploring a situation where both parties stop knocking lumps out of each other.
Also, the police investigated, found an offence had been committed and, from the GP today, Sark’s chief minister complains that they weren’t given permission to enter the island by the Seigneur. Banana republic or what?
And that’s the seigneur who’s put what exactly back into the community?
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Having just searched for and read the Sark News for the first time, I now realise just what the locals are up against.
It seems to me that Mr Delaney is totally irrational.
Sark is certainly not the place for him.
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Great interest in this topic, once again highlighted by the the guernsey press, who deny any connection with the people involved but give them more space than Mr average, still wonder why.
It seems it is forgotten that all this terrible grief in Sark started when two men moved next door and has got worse by the day. Delaney is only an employee and is doing the work employed to do.
God help the Sark we all loved.
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Tom
I find your post very sad!
I personally didnt suffer at the hands of the Germans, I know people who did past and present, who suffered badly, but they have accepted what happened, moved on, and maybe not forgiven, but certainly done their level best to forget.
I find your branding of a nation, over 60 years on from the crimes of their grandfathers quite saddening. Still, its good to see that xenophobia based on misunderstanding and probably what daddy drummed in from an early age still runs strong.
Evidently not too many senses of humour around?? My Grandad who fought against Hitlers armies loves a good old Hitler joke!! It seems funny that people who didnt fight against him are so apalled by it!
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Stevo-0
You just don’t get it do you; they were the enemy, and as such I found it only right and in fact My duty to do all I could to them. except killing. I had opportunity on several occasions but I just couldn’t.
I was branded as ‘Unwanted at 15 years of age, and right until the end was made to report daily to Grange lodge.
You can please yourself, but I feel a leopard
¨can never change it’s spots,
You talk a load of tripe about their grandfathers guilt. it was that nations guilt, that mob had only about 30 members but promised them utopia, and a nation of nigh on 60 million fell for it,just look at old films and see the national hysteria.
please yourself, but to me they took my youth, not only by occupation but by imprisonment. we were many who did the same, by honour I cannot mention names, but they know or knew.
In your travels in your dear friends land have you visited the camps. have you noticed the all about holocaust do you know anything about those murderous swines- I doubt it.
Of course there was quite a few like you, and thought so much of them. I don’t and never will; to ME they were the dregs of humanity.
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Mark; Sark payes.
Kevin is stressed at being liken to Hitler,
and yet he is not apposed to linking a Conseiller
to Starlin and another to the Taliban.
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(Posted this on another Sark thread but just realised that this is the active one. Odd – I though there was another paragraph, but perhaps that was edited.)
I don’t think that any reasonable person would think that whoever put up the ‘Hitler’ posters was suggesting that Mr. Delaney murders people or indeed that he is Austrian or even Fuhrer of Germany.
I have not really paid any attention to the Sark issue before, but I read the content in yesterday’s Press. One thing seemed to ring out loud and clear and that was Mr. Delaney’s view that he (or his backers) can buy their way into Sark. Not only that, people should be grateful! Well why should they? Sark got on very well for hundreds of years before. Is it any surprise really that many resent it? OK, their laws may not be the way Mr. Delaney thinks the world should be run, but that is just his view. As far as I know Sark people were not sending young children down mines or locking their wives indoors. Mr Delaney’s comments brought to mind the attitude of the Colonialists – only these days you can’t make people work for nothing, you have to pay them. Corporate Colonialism perhaps?
I expect Mr Delaney’s threat to leave will be as empty as the one Flybe makes every time it does not get its own way
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Tom
Really, they were the enemy, gee thanks for clearing that up for me, I wouldnt have wanted to remain so confused……
As it happens I have visited many war sites, accross europe, I am a rather obsessed student of WWII, I know exactly what happened, I know who was the enemy. I know who fought, who collaborated and who capitulated, I know all about it thank you.
Maybe you are still angry at yourself rather than them tom?? You are obviously upset at not being needed. Your post is unclear, are you angry at the Germans behaivour?? Or your lack of action towards it, maybe you wouldnt have spent the rest of your life harbouring such resentment if you’d got some action??
I still find it sad though, you are a couple of years younger than my grandad and still bitter, yes they may have stole you childhood, but its your own fault you’ve been angry for life.
Life is what you make it, bitter, angry ranting 60 years on, your problem isnt the Germans, no offense!
My Grandad on the other hand is perfectly happy, but then he fought!!
I’m sure the islands small but very pleasant population of Germans love people like you.
But then you dont care, anyone that tries to defend a modern german is talking tripe according to you.
You are tarring a the whole germanic peoples with the same brush, who does that remind you of??
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As a recent tourist to the island, I came across one of Mr Delaney’s Sark Newsletters, which described the ELECTED Conseillers as being unworthy of holding their posts, due to an email which depicts him as being Hitler.
What I find interesting in this is that I saw no evidence of these emails as these are not in the public domain, yet I can Publicly download Mr Delaney’s rants and his derogatory and in cases offensive remarks via his website.
With regard to the SEM, most of the staff I saw working in the ‘SEM’ hotels and shops were none Sark residents so if they did pull out, I am sure there would be no or little impact. In fact if my memory recalls did not the SEM shut down all their Assets after Mr Delaney lost the election?
Sark will I hope continue to remain unspoilt for All people to enjoy and not just the wealthy few.
Sark will survive this, and who knows may even get a company who will actually work with the local inhabitants.
I will be coming back to the island as a tourist, but in future I will be ensuring that I will spend my money at none SEM establishments.
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Steve-0
Who does it remind me of;
People like you who were the collaborators to your own, that is if you are a Guernsey man which I doubt,
As for fighting the ENEMY by members of your family. I’ll leave it at that, but this I will say, my family did serve- Africa Italy the Far East. then there was Royal Navy side-
Oh why do <I bother with the likes of you.
'I do not hate the Germens—I DETEST them.
Oh I have been in Gernmany. two weeks after Liberation I joined the Army. I served also in Italy then 2 years in Germany.
Stationed not far from Belsen I visited- revulsion hardly describes that infamous place,
NO Steve-0 you can mock me- but this I do know- I saw your type many times -
Are you from the areas of Bailiffs Cross by any chance?
Steve-0 for my part you are no better than those who collaborated,
You get sweet talk these days- they; the Germans know what I say is true and justified, but choose weak ones like you to run their once again propoganda machine, well it doesn't work with me, and never will- check back through German history you'll find they were ever an Agressive nation.
Your insults only prove to me how little you truly know of wartime Guernsey
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Marks Post:
Having followed this subject over the past few months with no friends on either side.
I cannot get my head round the fact that 3 policemen were sent from Guernsey to investigate the complaint. I would love to know how much that cost the Guernsey taxpayer.
If i had gone into Guernsey Police H.Q. and complained that someone had tied a satirical spoof about me on the Vazon Bay bus-stop, i am pretty sure i would be laughed out the station and down the road.
It certainly does not make sense or am i missing something……
Also according to KD and his News Letter he has a news hack who supports his fight.
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Chris – I think you have got it slightly wrong. A lot of the islanders work for SEM and are well paid for doing so. If SEM pulled out make no mistake – there would be a great deal of unemployment and it would revert to the old ways where the wealthy could not care less as long as their houses were cleaned, and the younger – and more importantly, “proper Sarkees” would again have to leave the island for work. I think everyone should pull back, have a think and then try to get on as “human beings”.
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Bobbie,
I totally agree with you, everyone should pull back. But the likes of KD do not play with a fair deck of cards. The media hype and the airtime that those in the media have given this has demonstrated this..
All I ask is that all of Sark is treated fairly and that the elected are allowed to govern. As stated in my post I am a tourist to Sark, and it saddens me that the perception is that an ‘outsider’ is telling genuine Sarkes how to live their lives.
You have a lovely island which if allowed will be taken over by a company not a elected governing board.
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As an educated local guess, SEM employs less than twenty local staff.
Indirectly possibly a few more. Although these stand alone businesses all had enough work annually to start up and flourish before KD arrived. They are not as important to the island as they and many others would have you believe.
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I imagine it is a matter of supreme indifference to many in Sark whether Mr. Delaney goes or not. From what I have been told he certainly won’t be missed by many, as for the Sark News, it is little more than a offensive little rag used to rant against those who refuse to bow to the might of the SEM. It is also a little rich for Mr Delaney to take issue over a cartoon depicting himself, when Sark people have been accused by the publication he is associated with, of being part of the Taliban and with one individual of being likened to Stalin. Mr Delany found out very quickly at the time of the general election that you can’t browbeat people into submission. There is no doubt that the island has gone through a fairly turbulent time since the arrival of one particularly family and its business interests. Before that time it lived a fairly idyllic peaceful existence. It wasn’t a rich place and the way of life Sark offered was more important to many who lived there, than the shiny baubles that others crave. Sark will survive long after all this nonsense stops and Mr Delany will be a long and distant memory. I wish all the Sarkees a more calm and peaceful future.
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It might be significant that Mr Delany’s objections to the posters focus on his imagined association with a “monster who was responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent men, women and children”.
While that may be an accurate description of Adolf Hitler, is the association an accurate description of the intentions of the persons responsible for the posters?
Arguably it is not, and there not the slightest hint that Mr Delany has taken the trouble to find out.
In other words, Mr Delaney has tried and convicted those responsible in their absence, and appears to have been trying to use the Guernsey police to summarily exact punishment.
I hesitate to draw parallels……
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Sarcie.
You are pretty much spot on. SEM probably directly employ approx 20 full-time local people. Plus a few more indirectly. They, and others, also employ much imported labour to satisfy seasonal demand.
Sark has traditionally relied upon a seasonal workforce long before SEM arrived.
What has the SEM £9m investment achieved? It has artificially stimulated and equally de-stabilised the Sark economy.
A few strategic properties have been spruced-up. A handful of new ‘start-up’ businesses have been encouraged. Some of this would have happened organically without SEM. Unfortunately some other businesses would categorically NOT be commercially viable in the real world.
It is ALL ABOUT TAX.
This is their bigger agenda and they should be challenged to prove otherwise.
The SEM £9m+ would have been written off against tax in most other jurisdictions.
Question to Lord McNally and the Privy Council; How amused is Her Majesty at such brazen ambition in one of her own Crown Dependencies?
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Tom
Dont worry, I’m not mocking you, you are doing that to yourself, your posts have gone from a little bizarre, to just pitiful rants.
You can brand me whatever you want if it makes you feel better, as you clearly need something to feel better about.
Why do you bother with the likes of me??? Because if gives you a public forum to spout your mouth to make you feel better.
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You over estimate your worth Steve-0
I am not branding you, you do that yourself,
I certainly don’t need any highs to lift me up, I just feel sad that anyone can justify the workings of nation responsible for death of millions of innocent people.
Some of those were Islanders.
As for wanting a forum to spout out about, surely you were the one who made the first move- By boosting the German Nation when you know so little about them.
I have a suspicion that maybe you are an off spring of some illicit affair, in which case it explains your belligerent attitude toward me.
However whatever your mind thinks, makes no difference to me. I’ve said my bit on that dreadful nation- and nothing will change my mind.
You say you never had any suffering from them; so I ask you how you can define good and bad- you’ll never know. But rest assured you’ll regret it one day.
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As one who has been branded in issue No. 40 of “Sark Newsletter” as “involved in Criminal Activity” my comments should perhaps be taken with a large handful of salt.
My feeling is that K. D. had he been allowed by his employers to get on with his proper job, that of overseeing the building and renovation works, he would have become a valuable member of Sark’s community. I have had dealings with him and he is prepared to accept and compromise over difficulties which naturally arise in the normal course of planning applications. Unfortunately he was made to enter the political arena and put in charge of the “Sark Newsletter” a lot of which I personally believe is not written by him. It is this that has been so divisive and hurtful to the community
My grouse has always been not the inward investment but the dictatorial attitude adopted without engaging in any sort of dialogue with the residents.
Remember that 84% of the Sark electorate casting an average of 24 votes each elected just 5 of the 28 Sark News preferred candidates and put in 9 of the 12 whom the newsletter demanded must not be elected under any circumstance!
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Sarko
- I wouldn’t have thought that tax is the whole story. Surely, what SEM is really about is control and to get as many people elected to Chief Pleas in December. Most of the businesses don’t seem to be viable in the commercial sense – an awful lot of people painting the same building over and over again, but they do employ a lot of people who they expect to be grateful.
Hopefully, enough of their emplyees will have the sense to make up their own minds.
Enough to give you sleepless nights!!
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Read my posts again Tom, I never justified their behavour, I merely stated that in the intervening 60 years and 2 generations they have changed, people have a capacity to do that, especially over that amount of time and hindsight.
I love the way you say that you are not branding me, before going on to (continue) branding.
Your imaginitive (if somehwat flawed) supposition of my heritage has absolutely nothing to do with your ill informed xenophobic bile Tom. Although it does go a long way to proving you havent been reading a word I’ve written, probably all that red mist.
Stick to sorting your own issues out, (you clearly have many) instead of trying to supplant them onto me! Really your attacks are so lame, I’m actually laughing at my computer.
Maybe if you’d actually understood what I was trying to say…..
Here I’ll say it for you, I like Germans, the 2010 Germans, not the 1940′s Germans, there is a distinction, but I wouldnt expect an angry bigot to notice them. In fact I’d even go as far as to say that from your comments here, you have displayed more in common with them than their descendents.
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Tom
I’ve been reading your little excahnge with interest but I think you need to take a couple of steps away from the keyboard. I havent seen a single post of Steve-O’s that has advocated what the Germans did, and you appear to have lost objectivity on this subject.
He merely appears to be saying they have changed which to be fair they have, yet you seem incapable of comprehending that!
You are clearly very angry still, that may be justifiable in your eyes but in my view that isnt a particularly healthy way to be spending your pension years!!
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Thank you The Man.,
You may be right, Steve-0 may be right, and many others may be right.
However I still maintain that Germany through the ages have had a number of things to remind us of them
They were Aggressive- Propaganda specialists- ruthless. but their main item was FEAR, they put the fear of ‘L’ into people- that was their main weapon.
Maybe they have changed- it doesn’t alter my thoughts on them- By what rights had they to commit such acts of violence as they did.
At wars end, at great cost trials were held. of over 60 million Germans only about 19 were on trial. over a year of trials and most were released without any charges.
It was pure business, to allow them to now continue in a now legal manner.
This then was how those gallant men were repaid who gave their lives for justice. It makes a mockery of the 11TH of the 11TH
And all Steve-0 can call me. for he has no answer in truth, he calls me xenophobic and a bigot.
He has no idea of what they did get up to- yet he condemns.
At least I say it outright, I detest the German Nation for their past sins. all the washing of hands will not wipe away the blood on their nations hands – nor the treatment of others in some cases maimed for life.
I’m quite aware how many think ill of me for stating these things. but at least I do not hide behind the bushes when I accuse.
Sorry ‘The Man’ I’m sure your heart is in the right place; I read your stuff and like it. And I am not patronising you.
However one has to know the reasons behind the letters I have written- It cannot be just rubbed out by an eraser.
Steve-0 Tries to make me the evil one, yet he doesn’t know anything about those times-
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Fief.
On your post you say that Sark pays, but it was not the Sark authorities that asked the Guernsey Police to investigate the lampoon.
So the Guernsey taxpayer by my reckoning should not be getting involved in what for a better way of words is a dispute of personality politics.
Mr. D. may have his own newspaper but he should not have is own police force.
I really think the Guernsey Police should step back from this as it seems they are being used for ulterior motives.
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It will make no difference if KD stays or goes: he is just a paid lackey who will appoint someone else if he leaves.
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I have only just had chance to read Mr Delaney’s open letter in Friday’s GP & notice that he uses the words respecting, decent & honest. It’s a pity he does not heed his own advice in his own Newsletter.
Also he talks of having a genuinely democratic government led by the elected.
I totally agree with the need for Transparency but with all his talk of it, I have never seen in print Mr Delaney’s admission of the REAL reason he closed down all the SEM businesses after the elections in 2008.
I wonder if everyone knows that when he failed to get enough votes to be elected, he tried to “persuade” conseillers to never the less give him a seat on one of the Committees. This obviously could not happen, as it would hardly be democratic! Hence the businesses were closed!
There are many words for this, I’ve chosen to use “persuade”.
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Just so good to see that the Guernsey people are not fooled by Mr Delaney.
They are spraying their vineyards with God knows what at the moment and this will run into our drinking water. It really feels like they are trying to rid the Island of local values.
Please help us.
Anon
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Mark;
Thank you for taking an interest.I can assure you the Sark Treasurer will have to pay. There is in place an agreement with the Police,and the
Sark Reform Law. I can not understand why we needed three Guernsey Police officers.
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anon – drinking water threat? why not use your ‘local values’ of your well established legal rights framework, incorporating your comprehensive anti-pollution laws? you have such a thing of course? or is ‘local values’ still a yearning for feudal law, unelected leaders and beating your wife? i like the takeover no more than you, but less head in the sand in years gone by, led by the comfortable sark few, and more modern, savvy leaders may have prevented this sorry sorry saga. and ‘please help us’ – sorry, do you you mean send blankets and water purifying tablets?
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Fief
I definitely cannot work out 3 officers either i hate to think how many would have to come for a serious crime.
You say that the Sark treasurer will have to pay, but the authorities did not call in the Police so i cannot understand how Sark is liable for the bill.
Does that mean that anybody on Sark with a grievance whether serious or petty, can bypass your policeman or justice officer [i do not know what you have] and complain straight to the Guernsey Police, who are then obliged to come and investigate.
It seems to me that if everybody on Sark took that line you would be likely to go bust paying the Police overtime bill.
I am certainly intrigued on this one.
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Those complaining of the presence of THREE police officers are using the luxury of 20-20 hindsight vision
I suspect the initial complaint did not indicate that only one person needed to be interviewed or that no computers needed to be confiscated
On the other hand the incoming Police Chief must think he’s entering Paradise in contrast with his London post if all he has to worry about is lampooning posters and 12 year olds cycling on the pavement
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Tom, you do realise every county has its skeletons… look at great Britain.
Punishing the sons for the sins of the father is an ignorant practice. I have a German friend, he is not my or your enemy. The scum in Aregentina and Chilie still alive after what they did you can call the enemy.
Posters on the internet use Hitler as a last resort to insult people, its true look it up http://www.knowyourmeme.com.
So im sure these muppets are doing the same thing!
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Tom….
Please do not continue your private rant with Steve-O on this page and stick to the subject.
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Sanguine:
I find it very strange that you do not like my attitude toward a nation that I personally (take note;) personally detest.
Yet in the same breath you despise other nations, must say your way of thinking somewhat bewilders me. (good for the goose, but not the gander)
Richie; Why chastise me, after all I always thought it took two to cause such Items.
Anyway besides all these words of wisdom from you two professors; I had until now believed a Blog was for “Questions and answers”
But you two have become Judges.
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I can’t believe that this non-story has been spun so far. Mind you it is the silly season. Column inches fuelled by propaganda, paranoia and a puppet editor with a legal beagle lead attached?
Time to put away the paranoia pills and take the reality tablets.
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Good point, Sarko….
now you’ve got me wondering which editor you’re referring to…;0)-!!
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Kevin Delaney is behaving like an arogant christian missionary of old, bringing ‘enlightenment’ to a poor ignorant population. However when the population turn around and say ‘we don’t like your religion’ he gets all huffy! Watch out Sarkees, how transparent will your new chief pleas be when SEM own every estate and business? And as for all the job creation, I suspect the population of sark has increased massively with imported labour. Sark is such a special place, it is so sad to see the damage money can do.
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There are a couple of things I don’t understand in this whole SEM take over of Sark.
Firstly, why has SEM, and in particular Kevin Delaney, seemingly gone out of their way to do as much as they possibly can to rub the locals up the wrong way? Either SEM needs to sack their PR people, or they have actively sat down and thought up all the ways they can possibly annoy people on Sark.
Secondly, what is all this so called investment about? Yes SEM is putting a lot of money in to the Island, but I don’t understand what their goal is, as they don’t seem to care about the end product. Having eaten in a couple of their hotels I can only say I found them to be dirty, with rude staff and terrible food. Why spend all this money if the end results aren’t managed?? It is because its all for show and they actually don’t care if the business succeeds or not?
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it ain’t much good in retrospect but i still can’t help think that the old, monied and establishment sark guard sowed the seeds of this situation by continually resisting basic simple changes to bring common political rights to the sark population as a whole. if sark had looked forward many years ago and embraced gradual reform, it may have probably been economically and politically much better placed to manage its own development and resist the power of mega-bucks monopoly. just hiding behind the island’s natural beauty and feudal heritage did no good and gave you no moral highground whatsoever. a warning to all would-be independent and isolationist communities?
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@anon, Is there anything we can do to help? ~ Have visited sark a couple of times and love the place and people and am digusted by the antics there, but apart from refusing to buy from any of their businesses and letting friends and family know what’s going on, is there anything more that an “outsider” can do?
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@ Tom
Yet in the same breath you despise other nations, must say your way of thinking somewhat bewilders me. (good for the goose, but not the gander)
Maybe I wasn’t clear, but im talking about the Nazis and SS men that are still alive and living free in these countries. I do not hate Argentina or Chile. Sorry for the lack of clarity but my point still stands.
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Sanguine:
Not wishing to embroil others into my notes (except perhaps he that started the whole affair)
Yet going back through history- to the sacking of Rome.- Attila. the Goths the Huns.
They have always been a warlike nation (Check it with Google if you do not believe it)
However my point is this; they are pretentious, they today are quiet and business like- and that is dangerous. because one day people may be forced to *butter-up”
Hitler did it by giving them work, yes the Autobahns -It gave fast transport for Military traffic enabling quick insert into other nations.
However or whatever you and others think or say does not and never will alter my opinion.
I have also very good reason to detest them- you have yours to love them.-
Only one man had the foresight of how they were-
Churchill- I didn’t personally like him , my reasons are not entwined with this.
Yet against all odds he spoke up- when fools like Chamberlain and even the then Prince of wales (Later Edward the 8Th) Thought Hitler was a good man-
Bah it sickens me to hear such molly cuddling.,
Still I suppose that is the only thing left free-speech (or is it?)
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Sorry forgot to mention;:
This is my last letter on this subject.
It appears that memories are indeed short lived-
So before some one decides to ban me;
I go willingly, for the sake of all those who never suffered—
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Tom
I find your hateful xenphobia offensive.
You infer that someone else started this, nope sorry, you used Steve-O’s comment as a platform for the most outstanding display of “set in their ways”-isms since Alf Garnett! (who your posts remind me of)
You are missing out, most Germans I know are delightful people, but then people like you dont like to admit they might be wrong, nope lets carry on accusing and hating a nation.
Tell me Tom, do you still hate the Romans for all their evils???
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Tom
They? what do you mean they? The Germans? lol, I don’t think so.
You really need to learn about germanic history before you start posting. (The Holy Roman Empire and Prussia would be a good start)
But worryingly are you saying all desended from Germanic Tribes are evil? If so, us, the Dutch, Denmark, Sweeden, Finland, Norway Austria et al all must be evil too!
If anything Hitler was Austrian anyway!
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To those who accuse me;
Although I said no more I cannot let it pass without a comment,
You accuse me of Xenophobia, well if you care to look it up it says fear of strangers, total dislike of foreigners.
At one time in my life they daily ocurances, they lived amongst us, the ruled with an Iron fist, do anything against them and you were punished- (IU know answers will come from that, but then aging by those who never knew)My word: let me explain why you use that word wrongly;
I do not hate the Germans I detest them.
I do not fear them; I have proved that, and suffered the consequences nevertheless I would do it all over again
Now then if I am xenophobic, then so is all who raised a hand a or word against anyone else who raises harsh words, words like you have used against me; but then without knowing any reason other than I detest that nation, you have no down to earth reasons. but like sheep “follow my leader as some one starts it off”
My reference to Rome was because the Guards to the Roman Emperors were German, they in turn turned on the peoples and sacked Rome.
Germanic being originally of eastern places one cannot wonder if those genes are still there.
Now then If xenophobic is my way of life; how would you describe England’s use of Robin Hood tales and their aggression toward the conquering Normans? Was that Xenophobic and still going strong.
Make no mistake I am not trying to clear myself For as was said “I don’t give a damn”
I know what they did I know how people suffered, and I know of the senseless killing, torture and way they conducted their reign of terror.
But then you all probably only read nice books, and other things make you shudder.
Yet the very thing I loathe was part of the English History as they subdued smaller nations, yet I am xenophobic eh, and you all hate me for speaking out.
I thank that I have none of your squamish ways, I know what suffering is- I withstood it.
It didn’t make me love them 1 iota.
May those who suffered under that nation one day get full retribution for the evil that was German.
Say what you will I still detest them.
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I’m reticent to get involved in this again because its a pointless waste of my keyboards lifespan, but I cant help but be amazed by this comment from the erstwhile war (or not) veteran Tom
“Still I suppose that is the only thing left free-speech (or is it?)”
Joking about Hitler is freedom of speech Tom, which is why you attacked me in the first place (ironic eh??) so which way will it be??
Or is it only freedom of speech when it concurs with your opinions??
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Tom, you hated those men. It doesn’t matter where they are from.
The people you hate now are innocent. You are being fascist, which ironically are the people you hate so much. Generalisation = fail
You are free to say what you want, but we are free to tell you that you are wrong. If you truly fought for “us” then this is what you fought for.
We should probably hate Muslims as well then right? I mean Osama is a Muslim……..
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Tom
Well at least you admit to your Xenophobia, I suppose thats a start.
I’m not Xenophobic Tom, I dont hate you, I pity you!
Every nation, and race has their own dark parts of their history, “Great” Britain is worse than most to be frank, and I understand that the Brits are still disliked in some quarters still for their behaivour in the 19th century. I personally think that continuing such vendettas is pointless, and thankfully and hopefully GB are making up for their crimes and are now non-deserving of the reputation they have for supression/ opression.
GB have attempted to attone for their past, so have Germany, if you cant deal with that Tom, and if you dont understand the very basic drives of human nature then make way for people who can and keep your nasty opinions to yourself!
Your own blood line probably contains just as much evil, just as much past crimes as the Germans, do you know why Tom?? Its human instinct, not the Germanic or eastern instinct, HUMANS, we are all the same, you may claim you are different but your behaivour on thie thread shows otherwise!
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i typed define:detest in google Tom…..
hate: dislike intensely; feel antipathy or aversion towards; “I hate Mexican food”; “She detests politicians”
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
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Sanguine
So does Tom hate mexican food as well as Germans then??
Or is he the miserable one on a mexican beach with a knotted hankey on his head??
“I’m not trying any of that muck! Ask them for Fish and Chips….. What do you mean they dont speak English, whats wrong with these savages??”
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Now you all read your Little notes again, and then ask yourselves; Not me but your own selves-
“Why am I so angelic”
I rest my case; you have yours.
You show more bitterness toward me than I ever did toward you,.
Can any of you honestly say you know what torture is, what real pain is?
If you can you will not judge.
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You made me lol!
I can understand why a veteran might feel this way, and i genuinely appreciate what all those brave men and women fought for, I honestly do. They are far braver than I will ever be.
But if they fought for us, only to become like the Nazi’s then its a shame the memory of these good men and women.
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Tom
You accuse us of bitterness towards you, and you show none towards us………?!?!?!?!
Right ok, if you actually beleive that then fine, you are clearly more deluded than I initially thought.
You are the angry, agressive, paranoid, ticking time bomb on these message boards Tom! Everyone who has spoken out against you is just trying to help you see the wood through your fog of hatred.
Sanguine
Complete agreement with this excellent comment
“But if they fought for us, only to become like the Nazi’s then its a shame the memory of these good men and women.”
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NO NO,
I’m not accusing you of bitterness toward me at all; that’s just another of your little make belief tales like your silly little tale about Mexico fish and chips.
To me it sounds that Goebbels is still spreading his propaganda.
But there again you try to right out things you know is wrong.
Your way decries those who died for you-. of course you’ll find some way to twist my words, well OK.
So I ask again; is there any point in the 11-11 month- 6June- Charybdis day
Make fun of it all, To me it’s obvious you don’t know and even worse don’t care
You make your own stories trying to belittle me: better than you have tried before. I stand by what I have said- and will never change.
Your shameful likeness to our dead is a disgrace. to say they do not become like the Nazis. I’m almost certain those who answer aren’t of my Island.
I will go so far as to say you gain from the Germans- and do not wish to lose a lucrative way of life.
But to use the terms you do against me is nothing short of !your friends attitude they had toward us.”
Carry on your ways and words against me, I am not affected by them- I stand by every word I have written,
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cj, Thank you so much for understanding our situation. It has been made so complicated by double speak and spin-doctors.
It would be a wonderful sight to see 500 people march up to SEMs office burning a copy of the latest sark newsletter or the Guernsey press but I fear the worst may happen.
I think that if people in numbers were to lobby the minister for justice Lord McNally in the Uk, sending him a copy of the sark newsletter which can be obtained at http://www.sarknewsletter.com and point out how you find this paper to be offensive and that you find what is happening to Sark to be unjust. They want Sark, and not for tourists but for it to be the new Monaco. Its an aggressive take over that needs to be stopped by public demand. We are powerless because we just don’t have the money to fight them in the courts, they have told us that they have more money than us and better lawyers so we might as well give up!
What can we do? We really do need help and not blankets and water purifying tablets as some cynic wrote but real help and defense of our civil liberties.
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tom – time to let it go. do you know how irrational you sound most of the time? i’d give my shrink the boot if i was you.
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anon – you are at it again. defend your ‘civil liberties??’ you are racially abused and denied from voting for all your government are you? you are being tear-gassed and imprisoned without trial are you? or do you want the civil liberty to beat your wife, run the sark lark and be ruled by non-elected landowners and landlords? sark denied full democracy for years and, while we all love the dreamy woodsmoke spell of the island, you had your heads in the sand and have had that position crept up on and violated by mega bucks riding a dragon of political freedom. welcome to the real world – you ain’t a harry potter script.
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So yet another comes into the fray OK by me.
That’s Fine; but do you see how false you all are,
Do you complain to BBC or other companies, or cinemas showing what I talk about.
No you sit and watch, and grind your teeth- but Talk openly and you re-act in a false manner.
I say false, because you all know what I say is true-oh yes think back.
But of course you’ll never admit that will you, it would be letting the side down wouldn’t it.
Ah well have it your way; I’ll stick to mine, knowing that what I have witnessed grim as it was wasn’t even a fraction of what went on.
You harp on about it all having changed- how many times has that been said- and it gives a false security. but you want it your way.
May it never happen, for your sakes.
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@anon, I will write to Lord McNally and express my concern at the situation. And I do not think it is over the top to say you need to defend your civil liberties, it is daft to suggest that just because you aren’t in the worst imaginable scernario you shouldn’t defend your rights when you feel they are being eroded. Kind of puts me in mind of a reverse Monty Python’s “Four Yorkshireman” sketch where everyone shrugs their shoulders and says “Could be worse, could be livin’ in Burma”! Please don’t give up, never been to a place more worth saving!
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And isn’t the point that the people of Sark did vote, for exactly who they wanted to run the place, and it wasn’t the people behind Sark News.
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Many thanks CJ. The more people who write to Lord McNally the better and we will never ever give up, no matter what.
Please ask your friends to write to Lord McNally. The whole world should know what’s going on here!
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@Anon, I will indeed spread the word and ask as many people as possible to write. I wonder if an open petition on the Houses of Parliament web site or something similar might be worth while? At least Private Eye are bringing some publicity too.
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CJ
That’s a wonderful idea, could anyone set that up ?
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anon =
‘That’s a wonderful idea, could anyone set that up ?’
yes anon – YOU could.
ps – precisely which ‘civil liberties’ have you lost, or are in danger of losing? being stuffed by the free market loaders may not be ethical but how is it a loss of your civil liberties? civil liberties lawyers please comment (and please help the helpless anon).
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Tom.
Given that you hate Germans so much, I shudder to imagine how you feel about Austrians ( you do know Hitler was in fact Austrian and not German , don’t you ? )
I watched a brilliant documentary recently about a survivor of the Dambuster raids visting the sites where some of his former colleagues crashed and died. At ech one was a memorial to the dead, built by the Germans. Maintained to this day, including floral tributes, by Germans.
What a terrible people they are …. British peopl,e such as you and I, would never stoop so low as to commit such a flagrant act of honour and respect to our (former) enemies ….
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SARK
Buying up large parts of a place, or in this case a small island, is often about control, the more you own, the more you can control. I understand that SEM’s holdings in Sark now own approximately 25% of the island. If over the years they acquire more and more of Sark until they own above 50% of the 40 estates, then with that, they are also likely to get political control, as it would be difficult to imagine that any of their tenants would bite the hand that feeds them. Getting political control is important if you want to change certain things that as a neighbour you may be unhappy with, for instance if you wanted to stop the Sark constables having an automatic right to wander around Brecqhou, or you wanted your helicopter to have the right to land on Sark itself, which is a privilege only extended to the Queen and other members of the Royal family. Or if you wanted change the shipping ordinance which at present might prevent you from doing as you wish and any other reason you may wish to alter the current laws of Sark. There are 3,100 vergees that make up Sark, If someone had unlimited funds and made the existing owners of the estates offers they simply couldn’t refuse, then it is possible that eventually Sark will be owned almost completely by one family. Sark has its own government and while it is still reasonably independent, it needs to introduce its own monopoly law very quickly, in order to prevent the scenario I have suggested from happening and to prevent a single business or family from dominating the Island and carrying on protecting its own narrow welfare, which may not be in the best interests of Sark as a whole.
Below are two quotes from the New York Times pertaining to Sark’s election?
The law of unintended consequences indeed! The hubris of the Barclay brothers when faced with a comprehensive rejection of their attempt at replacing one feudal hierarchy with another is breathtaking. It would indeed be a fitting end to have their property expropriated by the Chief Pleas so that Sark can return to the tranquillity it has long enjoyed.
— Anthony Dunn 22nd December 08
It’s clear Barclay brothers had no plan B, when they tried to ‘invest’ in democracy for the Sark residents. But now it turned out that now Sark is getting a Government of the people and not the “funders” of the people.
— Arun Mehta 12th December 08
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Toby:
My word and where do you learn such history-incidentally I said detest.
If you think such tales of all I’ve read about this affair, not one has mentioned the agony the turmoil the suffering of millions of people enslaved as they were.
All you mention is the memorials: as was in WW1, the tale about the ‘Red Baron’ That is/was chivalry.
70 million souls lost their lives “For what?”
Military lose their lives, unfortunately it is the way things are.
But civilians? They were the victims, and that is what the Nazis knew, that is the terror that was their main weapon.
Anyway you all have your friends and the ground covers many sins and the grass grows green.
So carry on abuse me all you want:I care not. to me you are not worth wasting time over.
Would any of you try and be honest and say whether you are Guernsey folk or just invanderers? I say that not maliciously as I’m sure you’ll find some fault- just wishing to clear up thoughts about families and cousins etc.
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Hi Anon, I’ve had a search and looks like anyone can set one up at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ – I think it would be more appropriate/have more impact if someone who lives in Sark set it up. I will search for “Sark” regularly and sign/forward the details to my contacts of anything that does turn up on there.
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Tom
Any thoughts about the Japanese?
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I think Phil is being delusional, does he even live on Sark! I am a Sarkee, lived here all my life and no we did not ask SEM or Mr Delany to come and order us around, and write filthy things about our people and culture, he can get away with all of it because he has the backing of very rich people, we do not have that type of money, and for those people who critise our way of life and the way we run our Island, well we are the ones who live with it and like it, our Counseillers are doing a good job under very difficult circumstances,made even more so by these people who continually harrass them and vilify them and all in the name of Politics, absolute rubbish, we have never interfered with the way Guernsey is run, so leave us alone to run our lives the way we see fit, as they say, if you don’t like it then get out, I believe a money box has gone aroung to pay for Mr Delaney’s boat fare, but it does not look as if he is going after all, strange that eh!!!
One last word folks, most of the workers for SEM are brought in to make it look as if SEM are employing everyone on Sark, not true.
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CJ thank you for the link.
I have had a look into it and see that I must identify myself.
This is not an option for me as I fear ruination.
Its just too risky.
We are now living in fear.
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Its the 15th already. Os Mr D really still with us? Well it seems a shame that someone with such delicate sensibilities continues to expose himself to looks of loathing and the blank stares of those who simply don’t appreciate his work for the poor islanders who completely misunderstand the missionary work that he does and which is paid for so freely and generously by his employers. Such charity and lack of self serving is so rarely seen in these days of avarice and greed. If Mr D goes as surely his broken heart tells him he should then the poor natives yet to be converted to SEMology will be deprived of the wisdom emanating from his organ such wisdom that could surely have been grounded in the haven of Essex and the East End. Go forth Mr D it is the right time to spread your wisdom and righteousness on other more greatful converts in far off climes such as the Caymens, BVI, Anguilla or similar island nations deserving your glass beads and trinkets. Remember the natives of Sark will be cursed for all time by your loss and their children will be damned for generations!
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Ray:
It must be nice to follow my leader as you do now.
You wait for others to start a game, then you join in.
Oh what a poor specimen you appear to be.
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Is their any chance that we can get back to the original topic, i am sure that Tom/Eric wishes to be left alone in his own little racist world, so lets keep to the topic of Sark please !!
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Anon, I understand your predicament, I really don’t think there would be much impact in me doing it as I’ve only visited twice so it’s easy to dismiss as an outsider trying to interfere. Who knows, maybe someone will read this thread who has more of a connection but is able to do it, maybe a Sark “ex-pat” who no longer lives there or something. Anyway best of luck to you. Hope to visit again next year, and hope people like you manage to keep it special! xxx
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It’s just a game Tom.No thoughts then?
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anon – i am not having a go now, but can you tell me why is it risky for you to fight your corner and what are you afeared of? have you business or are you a rival, or what? do you not have to get together, maybe unafraid to show your collective faces, and use what resources you have to face down your enemy, using whatever is legal (even though storming the castle walls is an interesting image – i wonder if there are packs of security dogs there, like mr burns has? or could you build a big wooden catapult thing on wheels to hurl your garbage across the goulliot passage maybe? i can hear world-wide cheering!). sorry … you may actually have to take risks yourself, like any good resistance worth its salt. and I agree with dave jones about getting a monopoly law together pronto. (assuming you have got as far as making laws?) … sorry … the sad thing is sark is , desite the threat to its perceived utopia, still something of a great cartoon.
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Well flyer
Don’t know how you get names mixed up, however it is of no consequence if it makes you feel smart.
But RACIST-well now that is another kettle of fish, don’t you think?
Would you explain that statement-
Seems as if it might just be a case of the saucepan calling the kettle black.
Think it over–
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Tom
You still havent answered Ray’s question, although its certainly given us all an insight into what type of person you are if you think being Racist is a game.
Whilst you are composing your answer to Ray, could you also give me your thoughts on how you feel about what happened at Dresden in 1945?
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Well now ‘Prostate’
If You do have such; then I honestly feel sorry for you.
Now to answer your question:
I think what happened in Dresden was to those people there, had the same thoughts as did Coventry.
I find it so strange that people lips so much. about racism. without a thought of what it may entail.
So a few reminders of racism
The British Empire.
The absolutely necessary of trying to belittle the 1066 affair. the taking of Britain
The ruthless war against Scotland Wales and Ireland.
The slave trade.
The sending of innocents to Australia
The determined settling of the Indian Mutiny
Centuries of war against France.
Then although I expect a denial the real reason for the WW2,
Germany being cousins of the English, therefore family, were getting out of control, so England decided to stop their little game- the opportunity came when they the Germans attacked Poland. They did noting when Germany demanded a part of the Sudetenland.
Racism. my word how awful it sounds, and then to accuse others. think it over.
Even to the utter devilish way in which the English claimed the Channel Islands.Your Government admitted that John had no jurisdiction over anything, he was a false king, so why did you continue to say we were British, many like myself disagree.
Some of us still regard you as pirates.
Deny any of those things mentioned-and say it was as you said in those days-
“It was for their own good”
How silly can a nation be with such talk.?
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Tom, i dont feel smart, as the gravatar stays with you , what ever name you choose to use, so all i can say is that you may have changed your name, however we still all know you as the infamous Eric.
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Mr Delaney, you have had 10 days and you are still here….what’s happened…..has the ferry broken down? No. Is there a waiting list for tickets? No.
Do you need someone to pay your fare? Well if you do the fund for your one way ticket is hugely oversubscribed so no problem there.
Come on man its 10 days since you said you might leave….you are not going to disappoint us now are you?
I know you want to give us just one more Sark News don’t you?
Such a gent…..we will miss you but as they say time heals and we will get over your departure somehow.
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Yes Tom/ Eric
If you want to equate the destruction of a key manufacturing base during the height of the war, to the destruction of a city and 350,000 people for no tactical reason when the war was practically over, then that is your right, its rubbish, but it is your right.
But it just proves that there was evil deeds commited by both sides.
And judging from your comments above Tom/ Eric, specifically the ones where you single out the “germanic peoples” suggests to me that you hate (or detest) the race rather than the country, which is by definition racist.
But now laughably you attempt to contradict your earlier comments by backtracking and now saying that we are related to the Germans so that you can intimate that we are all racist. Well Tom, the best thing about that is you have completely contradicted your earlier comments. Quite frankly Tom/ Eric you’ve trodden on your own toes a couple of times now, and its clear you are just plain angry, and on a mission to either wind other people up or try and convince us that the germans are still evil, (so now by own logic we are all evil!! you truly have no idea do you??)which is sad in itself.
But now I recognise your gravatar (thanks flyer), your comments all make complete sense, and given your past comments on here, yes, definately racist.
We are all evil eh Tom? Everyone except the ture native Guerns of couse ;-)
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well really ‘Prostate’
Are you saying that England isn’t related to Germany?
If not where is Saxony? hence the reason for Anglo Saxon originally ‘Angles Saxon’ Angles being from that part of Denmark given to Germany later on by Victoria.
However Now That the amount of people killed in the Dresden raid has now multiplied.for the original was 50,000.and to that I would agree was terrible. Even the English people said it was an unwanted raid.
But to use that in your tale of woe to me is most unfair, and indeed hardly warranted.
You all seem to take enjoyment of adding more Bull— to this that was first mentioned.
I have said and I hold to it that I detest the German Nation-of course those who reply are hardly out of their napkins and do not know what torture and unjust actions are.
I will never go into all that; But I can assure you it wasn’t Sunday school outing-
And why? Because in those days I stood up for England and said so and did so.
You may go on forever as far as I’m concerned it will not alter my horizon.
Oh by the way I’ve had quite a few avatars even different colours-so if that is what you place your thoughts on well good luck to you —
although you must admit it’s very childish-
“I’ve got a bigger doll than you” is what it sounds like.
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Tom
You’ve confused the hell out of me I’m afraid. My family have been Guernsey for many many generations, however I do have an English grandfather. Does that make me part German?
Can you also define what a “true Guernseyman” is please, I really need to know whether I am qualified to call myself one.
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CJ I leave this forum now for I have made all my points and exposed their lawyers for who and what they are. I really mean this, Thank YOU for all your support and advice. We won’t give up the fight, because we truly believe we are right and it’s in our blood. We never asked for democracy it was forced upon us! If it had gone to a referendum the people of Sark would have chosen freely to stay just the way we were, even now!
We are not a stupid people or unkind in fact we have a strong Christian ethic of kindness to our fellow man. This I believe has been our downfall in some respects for we like to see the good in all,but some people I believe are evil and unkind and greedy.
God bless you.
Anon
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Phil
What’s the point in answering all the silly and out of way questions.
rest assured you are what you are.
I feel that it doesn’t matter what may be said there are always those who manage to find something new to juggle with.
So sleep well and try and understand a situation unknown to many-.Yet because of it’s ugly nature others will always try to hide it under the rug.
Proof of that is how the manage to find all sorts of arguments. and call out things, yet manage to by pass the real facts.
I’ve said mine. I didn’t try to hide it away, straight from the shoulder-whilst other went further back.
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Tom
No, you went to great lengths to explain the germanic peoples origin and history, and how they are evil, you said that not me.
Its also you that has changed your tune to now say we are related.
Steve-O made the eloquent point that we are all naturally related because we are human and that humans naturally have an evil side, you attempted to dispute this insinuating that the germans were worse, now you say were all evil.
That is a blatant contradiction Tom/Eric.
Dresden was used as a very good example that the germans are no different from us, they may like moustaches more than we do and make better cars, but other than that….
Also my thoughts are not on your avatar Tom, but the fact that it shows your true idenity as the only other resident Xenophobic racist ranter on this board.
No we know there is only 1, you!
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‘…We never asked for democracy it was forced upon us…’
anon – wow, that’s quite a statement! i can picture loads of very old men nodding sagely in agreement with you, with their faded pictures of franco … and mussolini … and pinochet on the walls behind them. they said the same thing, back in the good old days when corruption was not a dirty word, eh? and in fact now i can hear the people of zimbabwe, cuba, china, north korea and saudi arabia all ‘tut-tutting’ the terrible democracy less it be forced upon them.
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Here’s a thought …..
What if Sark holds a referendum to decide their preferred form of government, and came down in favour of the old feudal system ? Apparently that system was in breach of their human rights …… yet to deny them their chosen form of government would also be a breach of their human rights …. The lawyers in Strasbourg could make a fortune working through that minefield …
And at least under the old system the anyone could guarantee buying their way into power ..
Tom … I am one of those horrible invading English I’m afraid … No actually not afraid , but proud. My parents are both English too …. Of my late father’s possesions , one of the most important to me is his certificate from King George thanking him for his service to his country during the war.
It was the Nazi run dictatorship, an Austrian dictator at that, that was responsible for the atrocities you rightly detest …. but the average German is or was no more responsible for that than the average British citizen was responsible for the fire bombing of Dresden …. Or the Average American was responsible for the nuclear horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
On November 11 th we should all pause to remember those killed in all conflicts …. Be they civilian or military …. and whatever their nationality ….
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Im sorry Tom, you are clearly no veteran, you are a bigot.
“I’m not accusing you of bitterness toward me at all; that’s just another of your little make belief tales like your silly little tale about Mexico fish and chips.”
That is the example given, as quite often in dictionarys, to explain a point. You don’t just understand. But that is your problem, you don’t understand the modern world, you are an anarchronism, everything you hated is no more. You are a relic!
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But of course Sanguine;
Just fancy that after all these letters Sanguine is at last trying to ‘Conpris’
tut tut
However think on:
“Oh what tangled webs we weave
When first we practice to deceive
And when we’ve practised for awhile
How we do improve our style.
So in other words.
No, I am that I am, and they that level
At my abuses, reckon up their own
I may be straight, though they be bevel
Their rank thoughts, my deeds must not be shown
Unless this general evil they maintain:
All men are bad, and in their badness Reign.
Oh should you have a mind to read try Shakespeare’s “This Scepter’d Isle”
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Despite this thread being smoke-screened by the bigotted mystery Tom, KD has sadly not kept his promise – yet again – and remains in Sark.
Furthermore, I learn that KD will appear in the Sark court next month (2nd or 3rd?) as Plaintiff with further charges relating to this.
Let’s hope that Private Eye will cover the case. Suspect the Telegraph will not send a hack? Should guarantee more good value column inches for the GP?
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Sarko
I wasn’t aware KD had promised to leave, have I missed something somewhere?
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Phil
Foolishly wishful thinking on my part. Possibly more of a misplaced kiss than a promise?
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Toby:
I thank you for the 1st rational letter in all this business.
You have taken the time to delve a little deeper than just skim the surface.
I too have one of those letters; perhaps a little different to yours; it was almost a thank you for dying.But as I mentioned.that can be the fate of service personal,
You see Toby. Bigot as I might be Racist I wouldn’t say that. but first thing comes to mind and they use it-
However this I will say: I read your letter Toby several times. ‘now laugh’ It did bring a tear to my old eyes.for I remember so many of my fellow Islanders who did nothing more that to stand up for their Island. and at the same time for England.
They call me racist without even knowing the real reason for my letters-well so be it
However I still believe
“That only one had the right to say Forgive them, they know not what they do!”
Well they did know. and say what you will things do get passed on. Oh yes it lies dormant, but it’s there.
I do not regret my letters. but I do remember.
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I am reminded once again, “The great masses of the people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one”
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Oh dear sanguine.
So I’m a relic, I don’t understand this modern world, well that may be true;
Yet once again who wishes to know the modern world:
I’ll not go into facts of how this modern world corrupts those at one time innocent children.
One can’t turn on TV without hearing the most dreadful foul language, mainly BBC.
So if I’m a relic. then I’m happy about that.
But think on a little when one talks of relics-
A more outdated way of ruling with Crowns and peers and Lords and ladies, all thinking they are better than the ordinary man.
Snobbery being high on the ways of your land,
Relics Yes I agree. yet my kind of relics allowed you to say such things- instead of another kind of Greeting.
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You are so much closer to the Nazi’s you hate so much aren’t you Tom? I really am happy if you don’t move on and stay locked in your sad little world of the past, but everyone else has forgiven but not fogotten.
That would include my grandfather, captured in Burma by the Japanese he knows suffering like you never did, but he forgives, its what he fought for, and now he drives a Japanese car!!
But what do I know, I don’t know much about Shakespear, so i must be ill educated.
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dear oh dear Sanguine:
Now you’re getting desperate aren’t you
How do you know if I suffered or not?
But then again you know it all don’t you?
I wouldn’t say you were uneducated Sanguine- I dare say you just haven’t bothered.
But you do like to follow my leader in these days. Well if you enjoy it WHY NOT.
Afraid you assume far too much me old cock sparrer. try using a little more common sense , and think it over.
It is only natural to try and ridicule, as I did when my father told me of the 1st world war, but I learnt and read.
But there you are: these days you have it on a plate- you have escaped the the greatest hell on earth that others suffered.
I write because of those nations who suffered, not myself, I can, and did take it.
But If you could have seen those poor people, you would understand.
I would forgive also.but I find nothing to forgive, they were monsters, and the nation let them be such, that is what I detest.
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