Brothers ‘won’t budge’ on land sale for runway
Friday 13th August 2010, 2:30PM BST.
Le Jardin De Messuriers is in the left-hand section of the area marked out in red. (Picture by Brian Green, 1009061)
FOUR brothers are refusing to sell the orchard garden of their historic childhood home for the airport redevelopment.
The Le Messurier family own the last field standing between the States and the £80m. scheme. And they are not budging.
Vale constable Nick Le Messurier said he and his brothers Paul, James and Peter, grew up playing on the site, which was the garden to their farmhouse.
It is where several generations of their family have lived for around 300 years.
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Good on them, why the airport needs to be extended that much further anyway I don’t know. Boeing 737′s have taken off on the current runway before.
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I love it – the brothers are so bothered about the local history that 2 of them dont even live here any more! Old guerns being stubborn for the sake of it! I hope the states compulsory purchase for a £1 – that will teach them!
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Or in other words
“double your offer and we may consider selling”!
Dont blame them for playing hardball to be honest.
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Auntie GP
I wish the states would do a compulsory purchase of your keyboard!!
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Is the runway due to extend that far?!
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Prostate Problems. I’ll second your comment re Auntie GP.
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So they can use this EMAS system after all, the CAA tells us. This is going to save the island taxpayers countless millions and preserve the country side and quality of life of hundreds of people in and around the flight path.
With a new runway and aircraft getting lighter and more efficient all the time,we will never need a longer or bigger runway.
But will our States members see this ? .. don’t bank on it .
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Brian Greens photograph of the airport is very revealing, and every Guernsey person would do well to study it closely. The photograph shows clearly how close the current airport facility is to many homes….and at the same time makes it easy to visualise what a horror story the airport expansion ( and future expansion) will do to the living conditions of people living anywhere within miles of the airport.
I have personal experience of what happens to neighbourhoods, to people, to their mental and physical health, to their overall living conditions and well-being when an airfield expands into an airport followed by an ‘International’ airport. It is horrendous, I guarantee it. Guernsey is a very small island. It does not need, and cannot take an enlarged airport with larger jet aircraft! Stop any expansion of the airport now before it’s too late.
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Auntie GP
What do suggest they do? theres money involved :)
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C’mon boys sell it, then we might actually be able to afford a last minute flight…
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Would it not be more in the interest of the states to use the £80m to buy more planes for Aurigny so they could offer more flights and not need to take larger planes.
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Guernsey has always been run to the benefit of the few rather than the needs of the many, this is another example, dont think the states have any political choice other than to purchase the land by compulsion, but whether they have the political will who knows! of course we could close the airport and have a sea plane service like they do here in Vancouver….but that is all rather to much out of the box thinking for most people in Guernsey, hence the reason we now live in Canada.
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GG
How do you know Boeing 737′s have taken off on the current runway before?
Wait. I already know the answer … ‘Because you used to be a pilot’
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Peter
I’ve seen the Vancouver seaplanes.Aren’t they limited to about half a dozen passengers ?
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Ray, I`ve SEEN 737s using Guernsey airport in the past – unless my eyes have seriously deceived me!
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I used to work at the airport and I have clear memories of 737s using the runway. I daresay it might need resurfacing but extending? Whatever happened to STOL?
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Oh, come on guys, give Auntie GP a chance, we do get a good laugh from her/he most of the time. Whilst on this airport thread though, have to wonder what on earth made that other old auntie, Geoff Dorey, come out with such blatant toady-ism in his recent letter in GEP this week, extolling the virtues of Blue Island – a well known global traveller, telling us his bestest ever flying experience is down to Derek Coates “wonder wings”?? Can’t help wondering if his previously chucked out donkey statue to be situated at the harbour, kicking and showing off its donkey bits as a welcome to sea side visitors has finally found a home in Coate’s garden.
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Didn’t Lufthansa used to fly a 737 into Guernsey from somewhere in Germany? Dusseldorf?
Most seaplanes here in Vancouver (**waves at Peter**) carry 6, some carry 15, but they need protected waters and won’t just land on the open ocean. Only place I can think they could land would be Havelet, at a push.
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737′s can fly into and out of Guernsey but are restricted by the weight load, so therefore cannot fly fully laden. More often than not they are used by charter airlines (for the Island Games last year).
We need to look forward and not back, I appreciate that the field has been in the family for 300 years and holds sentimental value but they need to see the benefits of selling the land to the states for this reason will ensure that future generations will be protected by having guaranteed more efficient transport links than ever before.
The States should stop mucking around make them a good offer (MV + 40%?) give them 2 weeks to respond then compulsory purchase the land.
The states spend too much time hanging around when Tom, Dick or Harry make a little noise about disagreeing with things thereby effecting the quality of our lives as delays usually make projects infinitely more expensive (the airport example is a perfect one, this would have cost £20m 10 years ago!!).
By the way I live in close proximity to the airport and will be effected by any changes.
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good on them, why should they sell their familys history, there is no need to extend the runway, christ most the people i know, use the ferry then catch flights in uk, ours cost to much, so i never use them, but no well done to you 4 boys, dont let them have it. xx
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Would it not make far more commercial sense for the States to subsidise inter-island flights to Jersey down to say £30 return, fill the planes all day and link up much more closely with Jersey’s jet flights rather than spending tens of millions on upgrading our runway so that it can take jets? This could be reciprocal so that some non-jet UK regional flights could operate from here and capture Jersey passengers in the same way. It would make all the air routes from the islands far more sustainable, instead of duplicating the same routes from each island so that neither is sustainable.
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Interesting thought David, and perhaps adding Guernsey and Jersey passengers together might attract airlines to fly to more destinations, especially in Europe?
If available and economical I would certainly fly via Jersey instead of via Gatwick.
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Im not convinced compulsory purchase would be legal in this case!
A new runway is not essential nor can it be deemed a need, who would support such a move!
Where is Matt Fallaize when you need him?
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That sounds like a very good idea David
Makes plenty potential for both an economical and sustainable solution.
Changing flights at Jersey is far less hassle then flying to Gatwick to then change flight.
Combining that idea with the EMAS system should be very seriously considered by the States.
An extended runway many years down the line is going to cost bucket loads more when it needs resurfacing, then the current arrangement.
Also if the runway is just extended it could prove to be a very big (and expensive!) white elephant of the future. As the current mode of flight travel is going to change I beleive in the global drive for countries to be ever increasingly environmentally focused.
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Guern abroad
And we would have the ferry as backup as well in case of fog here.
Its another example of how the two islands can work together for mutual benefit. Why do we need two “international” airports 25 miles apart with populations of 90,000 and 60,000? One “international” airport serving 150,000 people is a different commercial proposition. Getting a connecting flight from here to Jersey should be as easy as getting a taxi or train in the UK to Heathrow and Gatwick. And it could easily be as the inter-island airlines are already in place!
We need some year-round direct flights, but some UK destinations are only sustainable in the shoulder months if combined with Jersey. We would be far more likely to be able to sustain other routes such as Paris or Amsterdam or Brussels, albeit not daily.
Common sense really.
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Don’t you think that flying via Jersey (which is still possible and is at present used by some passengers to travel afar) would not already have already been considered by astute business men. No/ then think this “learn from history” and look back to when Guernsey’s aerodrome was at L’eree.La Villiaze was last serviced a long long time ago by a company called “Trentums” when it was also extended. Those of us who can see into the future understand that these things need to be done. As for those who own land at the ends of the Runway, weather they have owned it for hundreds of years or have just recently aquired it, must have known that one day what might happen, and let’s face it no one, absolutely no one, is either going to want to build there or expect to get permission to do so,therefore the land is almost valueless so take what you can and enjoy it !
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If the family have lived there for 300 years then it maybe time to move on.
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Where has this talk of extending come from. I live by the airport and what we were told it is that it is being shifted slightly and not extended, hence the need for a few more fields of runoff. Why don’t some people check their facts before bleating on?
And apparently you have to replace EMAS once it is used. So that won’t be very often but you will have the nice surprise of a hefty bill to pay when it does.
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could you please show us a similar photo outlining the land around the airport owned by local politicians and bought just before the plans were announced.
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Stand by your guns brothers,although I’m pretty sure you will lose in this “democratic” age.And Guernsey is a small Island,and can only accomodate small aircraft,its not just the noise,ever watched large aircraft taking off,and the unburnt fuel they spew out on the people living below!
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Simon,
Down in the Vale minding my own business, unusually!
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Matt Fallaize
Not such a bad thing, we all need a little time doing that a!
I would be interested to know if you would consider it appropriate for our government to use compulsory purchase in this case, should push come to shove?
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I am relieved and impressed, there are some great ideas here….yes small sea planes here in Vancouver but lots and lots of them, like every 5 minutes they go, perhaps more often. But I like the idea of the Jersey hub, need to really sit on the interisland crowd though, keep those fare down, even 30 pounds too expensive, family of 4 you are look at 150 pounds before you get anywhere, somehow need to make it economical, max 10 pounds each way or something….need an economist to do that no doubt…..can it be done?
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So the States theory appears to be, ‘if we build it, they will come’……
that may be true in a work of pure fiction about a baseball pitch in a cornfield attracting long dead baseball players, but can the same theory really be applied to a small islands airport’s runway?
The answer is, no one really knows, not the States – and not us.
One thing IS for sure, it seems that a very tenuous argument is being used as an excuse to potentially spend tens of millions of pounds on this project, and I remain somewhat sceptical about our hard earned cash being spent on a project that’s not so much a ‘field of dreams’ for the poor people whose lives (and house prices) could be utterly ruined by this…
more like one of nightmares.
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Its not about money, the brothers will surely get less for their land if it is compulsory purchased than if they had accepted the current offer. Their objection (and mine) is that PSD is proposing to bury acres of agricultural landscape under thousands of tonnes of fill, levelling it out to provide an extended grass run-off at the end of the new Western runway extension. This when there is no primary evidence that the CAA would have insisted we extend our run-offs to 200m plus from their current, mandatory 90m. PSD quotes from selected passages in the Airport Design Manual, CAP168, recommending 240m run-offs, ignoring passages that allow mitigating circumstances to be taken into account. One of our many mitigating circumstances being that this is Guernsey Airport not Heathrow or John F. Kennedy Airport.
This run-off extension is just one aspect of a project that was pushed aside whilst the States spend £25million on a vainglorious Airport Terminal then ballooned out of control, from 2004 to 2008, into the most expensive project the States has undertaken at £85million (RIP Suez). At the heart of the project is the long delayed and essential resurfacing/rebuilding of the runway structure on which the States, eight years ago, was expecting to spend about £3million.
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Expat80 and prostate problems – No need for compulsory purchase orders on my keyboard. I will happily hold an auction of my keyboard, and donate the proceeds to a local charity of your choice. I could do with a new, more modern and up to date keyboard. Who would like to open the bidding??
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Utimately it is clear that a cumpulsary purchase order can be made and the Le Messurier brothers would have to accept it.
However the integrity involved in this issue should not be called into question.
As a community we cannot stand still, but equally important is to recognise a sense of continuity and a respect for our heritage, as an island and on a personal, family level.
No, I don’t believe this is about money, and I hope the brothers win through.
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Without question, seaplanes are deffinately not in the running as a mode of transport for Guernsey. Seaplanes need relatively calm waters at all times, they are also too small, and, most importantly, are also violently noisy, and I do mean violently! It would take only one day -nay, half a day -try one hour! – of a few seaplanes reaching max powers revs for take off from Havelet and the whole island would be in an uproar and on-the-march, and rightly so.
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ps. I should have included the following. Aurigny is the best thing that ever happened to Guernsey -gives Guernsey the feel of being a ‘South Sea Island’ when one flies in one from the mainland. Stop any idea’s of an expanded airport – stay with Aurigny, the ‘sunshine flights’ – ban the jets, they will gradually destroy the island.
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William’s message on Aug 16th shows he has not studied the PSD plans at all. If he lives anywhere near the West of the airport he should be worried. It is the intention of this scheme to lengthen the runway further West by 128 metres (but it is disguised by using the word ‘displacement’ instead of extension) plus the swallowing up of several acres to make a bigger RESA (Runway End Safety Area)
The scheme has been mislabelled by the authorities as ‘essential maintenance and repairs’ or ‘Pavemnent Rehabilitation Project’ when it is in fact also a major expansion of the airport boundary to the West. It is in effect Phase 1 of a full 1700 metre runway extension. No wonder people are upset. William would be well advised to study the plans carefully which I gather were going to be displayed at the airport. Even then these are sketchy and will need prising out.
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Peter, William is spot on. Yes, there will be more tarmac at both ends, but the runway WILL be displaced. Why don’t you read the plans? The start of the runway itself (the piano key things) is being MOVED, not extended.
If they go for EMAS, then in theory we could get away with less tarmac all over the place, but there are problems with that – what happens if the EMAS is used? THere’s a plane stuck there while accident invetsigators do their thing and the airport is closed…
And as William said, it would be expensive.
It’s not phase 1 of an extension – PSD have said in no uncertain terms they see no point in an extension.
People only get upset when numpties want to work their own agenda and twist the facts to fit. Umm, Peter, what do you think?
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Billythefish
PSD said in the 2009 Billet;
“York (Aviation)’s report has come back in support of the Public Services Department’s viewpoint, that while it might be desirable in the future, a runway extension is not currently necessary.”
and the Policy Council’s comment was that their economic analysis;
“…. concluded that it was unnecessary to extend the airport at this stage but that any development should be ‘future proof’ to ensure that, if an extension is required in the medium term (10-15 years), there will be minimal additional cost.”
PSD’s scheme is designed specifically to allow, as Phase 2, a further extension of the runway to the East. Phase 1 involves extending the runway to the West and then designating an existing length of runway at the Eastern end as a starter extension. Should Phase 2 ever be constructed then that length of ‘starter extension’ will be re-designated as ‘runway’. Therefore the proposals have to be considered as an extension to the West, whether or not it is the current intention to implement Phase 2.
You extend a three room Guernsey cottage by one room to the West and designate the eastern room as a garage, having said that in the future you might well extend the building to the East to create a five room cottage. How credible would a claim be that you were only ‘displacing your cottage to the West’?
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If they do not wish to sell why should they?
It’s there land….
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Shane Langlois
Excellent excellent point!
Good to see that you and Peter know the real score.
Anyone thinking that PSD will stop at the “displacement” phase when the ready made excuse “well, thats where the old runway used to be, we might as well use that too ay??” exists, is naive at best!
We’ll have a 1700M runway before we know it.
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I think its a bloody joke, why should they sell it if they dont want to? and all this “cumpulsory Sale” *&£$ off! states take the p***, “we cant get our own way, lets bully them off their land (cumpulsory sale)
how about they waste another 80m, which they dont have, on something they dont need, because its not like the whole island in any major debt already?!
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Question.
If the airlines can’t fill the seats on the smaller aircraft and are having trouble making them pay…
How un earth are they going to make these big aircraft pay ?.
So is there any point in extending the runway.
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melc
Excellent question. Answer, they won’t. What is being proposed is the biggest white elephant in the history of the States. And let’s face it, they have some track record.
There is no commercial rationale for extending the runway and the safety aspect as we now know (and always have) can be accomodated by EMAS.
So the logical outcome will be……extend the runway.
Go brothers.
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THERE JUST WAITING FOR A BETTER PRICE.
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Fact – the runway is in a bad condition
Fact – if the CAA say non then no one will fly into the island
Fact – this should have been done years ago but no States member would have liked the runway call by thier name. Better get a huge building built then name it
I use the aiport regularly and when you look out of the window of the aircraft you can see all the patching. Land in the winter on lashing rain and the only thing to do is pray you will stop
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Isn’t the issue with the EMAS system on a single-runway airport that the runway (and hence the airport) is effectively closed whilst the EMAS blocks (at $1000 each) are replaced?
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Matt Fallaize
Not really the reply I was hoping for!
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Simon/Matt F.
Dont worry boys Davey J. Will be along shortly to sort the mess out!!!!!!!!
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