Flood of calls to GSPCA over pregnant mare being worked
Tuesday 17th August 2010, 2:29PM BST.
Julianna Chapellier holds Jezabelle, Jean-Claude Chapellier is at the reins. The mare was not pregnant at this stage. (1010688)
A HEAVILY-pregnant horse seen pulling a carriage around Alderney for almost five hours on Saturday led to a flood of calls of complaint to the GSPCA.
Director of the charity Jayne Le Cras said she was ‘terribly disappointed’ that the owners of the 13-year-old mare, Jezabelle, Alderney residents Julianna and Jean-Claude Chapellier, had gone against advice of a Guernsey vet and animal welfare associations – who all said the horse should not be forced to work.
But Mrs Chapellier, who confirmed the mare was nine months into her 11-month pregnancy, said her horse was fit.
‘The States Vet said she is in excellent condition and there is no problem with her working. Jezabelle is a working horse and needs to keep working, otherwise it would affect her health and cause complications with the pregnancy. The GSPCA knows nothing about this. They have no experience of dealing with working horses,’ she said.
- Read the full story in the Guernsey Press. See below for subscription details.
- To read Guernsey Press stories in full click here for subscription details. Individual editions are now available online.
Campaigns
Voice For Victims
Voice for Victims is a campaign aimed at promoting the rights of those affected by child sexual abuse.
This is Guernsey
Guernsey Press
How many is ‘a flood of calls’?
There seems to be a local element out to get these people at any cost. It’s the way it goes on a small island I suppose.
The horse looks healthy and from what I’ve read a healthy horse, under 20 years with no history of complicated labour can be treated as normal until the very late stages of pregnancy. She’s clip clopping along pulling a cart not galloping in the 3.30 at Aintree.
Report abuse
I wonder why the police don’t get a flood of calls when they see heavily pregnant ladies carrying shopping bags or going to work?
Report abuse
clip clop – the photo showed the horse earlier, when not pregnant. this seems to be a matter of vet opinion? you could say the more independent vet would not come from the local community? maybe there is petty stuff against the owners but there is a lot more nonsense aimed against the gspca – i hope you are not in either camp. it is the horse and foal that matters and surely it is better to air on the side of caution here. give the animal a break now.
Report abuse
excerpt from article at petplace.com by veterinarian Dr Sylvia Bedford-Guaus.
” It is usually recommended that you gradually decrease your mare’s hard work at around 7-9 months of pregnancy, depending on her physical condition and disposition.
The most important thing to remember is that your mare’s routine should not be changed drastically just because she is pregnant. For example, an idle or light-working broodmare should not be suddenly submitted to strenuous training/exercise, or vice-versa, just as any other horse.
Whether in a light, moderate or hard work schedule, all pregnant mares should be allowed plenty of turnout for voluntary exercise, preferably in pasture, throughout pregnancy.”
Unfotunately, no matter how well-meaning the complainants were, they obviously know nothing about horses.
Report abuse
blah-The photo does not show the horse not pregnant, she was in an earlier stage of pregnancy. She was pregnant before even arriving in Alderney and has been pregnant throughout the time the Chapelliers have been carrying on their carriage rides business.
I find your comment about vet opinion quite bizarre. Do you not trust your GP because he lives on the same island as you?
Dr Dickinson is not alone in her opinion that pregnant mares are capable of moderate work, there is plenty of informed opinion that agrees with her to be found on the net if you look for it.
Report abuse
Hope the Channel TV news aired today puts you better in the picture Clip Clop and Paul Le Page? Before making assumptions like you did, you will have now seen mare is very, very heavily pregnant or very, very seriously ill to be that size if she is not in foal. Also flood of calls is 59!!! One of these calls was from person who witnessed the mare floundering on Braye Beach in the soft sand to the extent that her breast girth broke under the strain of it all. Also going up and down Braye Hill would not be a barrel of fun for pregnant women with shopping either – luckily for humans they have the choice of getting help or taking a taxi if they were feeling a bit tired that day!!!! The GSPCA does great work so support would be better received than instant disapproval without knowing the facts – all they wanted was their vet to confirm that the mare was fit to do carriage duties or not which, surely is also imperative from a health and safety aspect should something happen to any person using that carriage for hire – not rocket science in this day and age of compliance is it, so why simple request was met with resistance and all this bad pubicity for the owners and Alderney tourism is beyond reason. Keep up the good work GSPCA we all say!!!!!!
Report abuse
Thanks Guernsey Gal for the update. Your inside knowledge from the GSPCA is helpful in this debate.
I didn’t see the Channel TV report but have seen the horse, yes she does look heavily pregnant and as you can read above by about the 9 month stage work should be reduced. I trust the owners will follow this.
As for the horse being on Braye Beach – I’m not sure about that one as dogs and horses are not allowed on the beach in the summer months.
Report abuse
Do wild horses take maternity leave?
Report abuse
Andy – wild horses don’t pull cart loads of people around all day so don’t need maternity leave.
Report abuse
Guernsey Gal, you evidently didn’t get the point of my post – understandable as it’s easy to misinterpret comments that are typed. Still, I’m interested to know exactly what assumptions you think I made after reading my post, apart from observing that the police don’t get floods of phone calls about pregnant women?
For the record my post was meant as nothing more than a slightly tongue in cheek expression of curiosity as to why so many people seem more concerned about the state of a pregnant horse than a pregnant lady.
Report abuse
Guernsey Gal, your support for the GSPCA is admirable. They do a lot of good work with GENUINE cases of neglect. Unfortunately it appears that Mrs Le Cras and probably others within GSPCA have indulged in unwarranted interference without establishing the facts, without, it appears, any real knowledge of working horses, or even having regard to established veterinary opinion.
Here are some FACTS from someone who knows Jezebelle very well.
She is very well cared for by M. and Mme Chapellier, I have witnessed this on a daily basis. She was brought to Alderney by the Chapelliers to work as a carriage-horse. M. and Mme Chapellier were sold Jezebelle by a breeder in Normandy who had had her running with the stallion last summer and autumn and had sold her because she had been scanned by a vet and the breeder had been informed that she had not conceived. She has had foals in the past and had continued to be driven throughout pregnancy, with no problems for her or her foals. A broodmare that hadn’t “taken” would be of little use to a breeder, so she was sold as a working mare.
Over a period of time her shape changed. At first the Chapelliers took this to be “grass belly” because she had not had the level of work she had been used to, due to the carriage being unusable due to punctures. They did not for one minute consider pregnancy because she had been scanned in France as empty.
After a while some other Alderney horse owners approached the Chapelliers to say that Jezebelle appeared pregnant. After that the Chapelliers realised that this might be the case and immediately sought veterinary advice both from the nurse at Aldeney Animal welfare and from the States vet, Dr Dickinson. They were advised by the vet that Jezebelle IS pregnant and that they were OK to continue driving her but to GRADUALLY reduce her work. This they have done by telling there booking agent not to take any more bookings for carriage rides. They would however, honour existing bookings with a revised route to reduce Jezebelle’s workload. One of those existing bookings was for a wedding and permission had been obtained for the horse and carriage to go onto Braye Beach for photos with the bride and groom. The carriage did get stuck and Jezebelle did pull it out. The harness “broke” because it was poor quality and stitching came undone. At no time was Jezebelle’s health or that of the unborn foal jeopardised.
Thanks to the interference and harrassment from Mrs Le Cras and others Jezebelle is now not working, because her owners fear that a hate campaign against them will ensue. This is a major change to her normal routine which is far more likely to be detrimental than continued light work.
Report abuse
horse lover – fair enough. if what you say is backed up by majority of welfare agencies involved here, i’d say we settle for no more beach jobs. i think gspca acted in good faith. and i am sure you could head off any hate campaign. we shall assume jezzy is signed back to work on monday?
Report abuse
Interesting comments Horse Lover. It would appear from what you have written that a number of well meaning but ignorant people have done exactly what I was accused of – namely made assumptions without knowing the facts.
I wonder if some of the problem is people who simply don’t like the idea of working animals.
Report abuse
I am not quite sure what is right for the horse- if it was mine I would not work it so hard if that was the right thing to do.Getting advice from a good equine vet is the best thing to do.As for the gspca what experance do they have of horses?ok J L C you had a horse but you seam to have forgotten what happened to that
Report abuse
Missy
Good point but surely they run miles and miles a day at least they do in my Randolph Scott films.
Report abuse
I would liek to know how many of you writing comments are actaully from Alderney? If you lived here you would see that this horse doesnt go out all the time as one person suggests. This island isnt busy enough and most tourists have gone.
I have owned plenty of horses and i feel that as long as this horse is gradually decreasing her work then there is no problem. They look after her well and if she got stuck in a field you would definatly find she will get lamentis and will be worse off.
I hope i see her out and about just plodding along instead of being thrown in a field doing nothing!
Report abuse
Hmmmm
Lots of calls to the GSPCA, allied to Guernsey Gal’s comments and horse lovers last 2 paragraphs lead me to one conclusion.
No smoke without fire!
Report abuse
Let’s just pretend the lady concerned can speak for herself and make her own decisions for a moment…
‘hey, Jezabelle, now you’re really heavily pregnant, do you fancy pulling a heavy cart loaded with people for hours on end, in the sweltering heat..?’
Anyone who thinks the response would be an enthusiastic and altruistic, ‘ooh! yes please! Especially as it’s earning MONEY for my owners!!’ is deluded in the extreme.
Jezabelle works because she is made to, and does so unquestioningly because that’s all she’s ever known.
Human beings, on the other hand, credit themselves with a little more sentience, and are, supposedly, meant to use that.
I grew up around horses. Lovely animals…sensitive, intelligent…
people could learn a lot from them…
Report abuse
Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride,
Friendship without envy,
Or beauty without vanity?
Here, where grace is served with muscle
And strength by gentleness confined
He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity.
There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent.
There is nothing so quick, nothing more patient.
England’s past has been borne on his back.
All our history is in his industry.
We are his heirs, he our inheritance.
Report abuse
and as for the talk of stopping this work being detrimental to her health, fair enough, but what’s the major difference between her pulling a cart full of people, or being taken out for a regular walk minus the cart?
…ah yes. Money.
Report abuse
Keep the horse working, it`s a working horse, and besides, the harder it works the stronger the muscles and the stronger the muscles the sweeter the meat when it gets plated up. Yummy, yummy.
Report abuse
@Peter,you are sick in the head.
Report abuse
Aside from the should she /shouldnt she be working debate what i find worrying is that Horse Lover claims she knows the horse and owners well but happily admits the horse had ‘poor quality’ harness!!! This screams out for health and safety checks.I find the idea of carriage rides with the horse having ‘poor quality’ harness appalling. I hope this is looked into urgently.
Report abuse
Hello, I have not got inside knowledge from GSPCA – living in small islands, the jungle drums are rife and calls had also been made to other organisations and knowledgeable people to try and alert them to the situation so don’t try and blame the GSPCA.
Coco, your comments about JLC are distasteful and detrimental to the work being done by a recognised charity and qualified welfare worker.
Horse Lover,if we don’t support the animal welfare charities and listen to them, then we are not really helping any situation and being obstructive to the cause. I don’t know why anyone should want to try and lecture us all on how much work the horse should do as she could be working now apparently had a Vet, from whichever island,had diagnosed her as fit to work so why you are all getting worked up about how much work she should do is beyond belief as if the owners did not know she was pregnant when imported into Alderney, surely it would be in their interests to have the mare diagnosed and how far gone
she was so critics could have been answered with proper knowledge and with the full facts to hand.
This is not a case of neglect from the owners, just ignorant advice from others concerned.
Report abuse
Coco, you obviously haven`t tasted horsemeat because if you had you`d like it better than beef and it`s eaten in many countries. It`s an animal for Christ`s sake, just an animal and as much as I don`t believe in cruelty to animals it is but another food source. The horse in question has been seen by the States Vet and is deemed fit to continue working for now. I don`t see anyone complaining about women working almost to the day of birth. My sister worked packing flowers, standing for sometimes 10 hours a day, whilst pregnant up to just three days before the birth of a son and a daughter.
Horses in the wild as any wild animal are carrying on till the birth of it`s young so why should this one be different? Do you, or any other of the complainers, know all the facts of this case? I think not. You are all just sentimental and don`t bother to think about where your food comes from as long as it`s in front of you at meal times.
Now you will claim that you are a vegitarian and wouldn`t dream of eating meat. Well I don`t believe you because you are faceless and can make any claim you like under an assumed name. You also should try Guinea Pig, Dog, Cat and Hamster, they are all very tasty.
Racheal, what`s the next claim you will believe? The horse has no shors to wear or it`s tail was plaited too tight? Open your mind and see the world through your own eyes not through listening to rumours.
Report abuse
Peter, i assume its me you’re refering to? What do you mean ‘whats the next claim you will
believe’? Horse Lover in the post on August 18th @ 6.49pm clearly states [and i quote]
‘the harness broke because it was poor quality and stitching came undone’
Any horse with poor quality tack or harness is an accident waiting to happen. This horse is used as a business giving carriage rides. The fact that part of its harness broke under stress should really cast doubts on the safety of this set up. I know things can and do break but the fact that its openly referred to as poor quality is what worries me.
I am not horse bashing by the way, as a horse owner myself i just find this very disturbing.
Report abuse
@Peter – although I enjoy fine meats like yourself, given the subject matter your first comment was possibly in bad “taste” but I agree that coco considerably overreacted. Surely we are all civilised enough to accept others culinary tastes without labelling people different to us as sick?
Many nations eat horse meat (including our French cousins) and have no issue with it; in the same way my love for a good bacon roll would be frowned upon if I were in Israel or Iran. I enjoyed a crocodile curry on a visit to Zambia a couple of years back, something which many people I know would turn their noses up at, I also saw skinned dogs in Vietnam ready for consumption, something many Westerners would find abhorrent.
The fact is the only reason eating certain meats is frowned upon is cultural (and occasionally religious) and nothing to do with nutrition.
Report abuse
hang on – we started arguing about whether the horse, pregnant with foal, should undertake too onerous activity – now we are arguing over how good she will be to eat!? did i miss summat? (and Peter – will Jezebelle’s meat be sweeter with or without foal – you seem to be an expert? i think you might accept people can both eat animals and care for their welfare before doing so).
Report abuse
Fair point blah, I couldn’t help but get distracted by the mini debate between coco and Peter. Back to the topic at hand….. :-)
Report abuse
Peter, hope you come back in a later life as one of the animals you are goading us about as being nice to eat and then see how you like being on the receiving end of bad welfare in your life on earth at the mercy of humans!! Well said Blah – we are supposed to be civilised nation but sometimes I wonder. Watch Martin Clunes programme about horses to see how they have helped change the world and you might show some respect for equines and other beasts of burden.
We are all God’s creatures (not that I am that religious but put yourself in the hooves in question) and animals and children that can’t speak for themselves have to be protected from ignorant owners, parents and those that stand by watching abuse of the power we have over those weaker than ourselves. I fully support the work of GSPCA and NSPCC as they help to give them a voice. How many cases do we hear about incompetent social workers not recognising child abuse when it stares them in the face, the same might be said about Jezebel unless the situation is clarifed. I presume all GSPCA and Alderney Animal Welfare were involved in was checking out the source of any complaint made. Surely there could be no hidden agenda for anyone in their right mind whether it be vet, owner, horse lover, Alderney resident or indeed anyone with an ounce of a brain not to want to work these CHARITABLE organisations to protect good animal husbandry in the channel islands. All horses are working animals whether they be show jumpers, pull a cart, compete at dressage or just happy hackers but one doesn’t see any heavily in foal working at such in the Horse and Hound!!
By the way does anyone know yet how far in foal Jezebel is as surely knowing whether she was about to drop or not would have silenced the critics and at least given the owners an idea when to expect patter of tiny hooves. If what I read is correct, they didn’t even know the mare was in foal until an Alderney vet reluctantly examined the mare and confirmed it in the last couple of weeks – seems a bit odd situation to me but there you go – there is nowt as queer as folk and there must be a good few over there!!
Report abuse
vegetarian
What if Peter comes back as a parsnip?
Report abuse
Ray. With comments like his, I think we can assume Peter is already at the vegetable stage of his ‘spiritual journey’…
and has probably taken some considerable time to get there.
Report abuse