Police investigate guest workers ‘living in vinery’
Thursday 19th August 2010, 2:30PM BST.
It’s evening and women are dropped off at Merton Vinery. Neighbours say people are living there. The owner denies it. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1007804)
CLAIMS that foreign workers are living illegally at a local vinery are being investigated by police, it was confirmed yesterday.
Officers are again checking for signs of wrongful residential use of Merton Vinery, Pointes Lane, St Andrew’s, following complaints from neighbours.
The property was investigated earlier when people apparently wrapped in duvets fled a fire there and the Environment Department has said that that matter remains open.
Since then, neighbours have complained of people arriving at the property late at night and apparently leaving early in the morning.
However, vinery owner Bruce Tostevin has emphatically rejected any suggestion that anyone was living at the vinery.
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They should be deported immediately.
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you’re losing your touch GG. The article was up for a whole two and a half hours before your posting. Hey it must be like Christmas for you though, a story about immigration!
;-)
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…..I assume you mean deportation of the landlord(s) GG…or have you no knowledge of the difference between victims and greed-mongers,those who will take full advantage of the disadvantaged for the quick silver dollar,
Guernsey or otherwise….some 39 years ago when I arrived in Guernsey, totally unaware of the Housing Regulations (much more lax then,of course) a local high profile business man, now deceased, offered me a flat to rent…when he discovered I did not have a Housing Licence he still offered me the flat, but at a higher rent..you really should think about your comments before you make them…or would that be expecting to see pigs fly out and onwards into deportation as you wave your Guernsey flag, saturated and tainted by your bias and simple ignorance.
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2 YEARS, surely one police raid late at night would have answered that question or is it to simple .
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The Housing Department carried out investigations in relation to the Merton Vinery site following the fire in 2008. It has re-visited the site a number of times since that time and has carried out further investigations recently. At NO time has the Department found there to be any activity that would be unlawful under the Housing Control Law as a result of these investigations.
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If it is true the owner of the vinery ought to be prosecuted too. Isn’t it some kind of dodge around the minimum pay law that you can pay less if you provide accommodation? Presumably, this is what they get!
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GG – Your comment sounds to me like you have already decided that the workers are to blame for something that hasn’t even been categorically proven. Not surprising I suppose given your track record of opinion on such matters. I presume you wouldn’t be so quick to judge if the workers were local?
A full investigation should first take place to ascertain the facts surrounding the case. For starters, it should be established whether there actually ARE workers living in the vinery. IF that is established, the police should conduct a full investigation to find out why whilst taking measures to ensure the workers are housed like human beings.
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send em 2 gersey!!!
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GG – who should? the people coming and going, the neighbours or bruce tostevin? and when you have worked that one out, tell me why. i gather this is still all only at investigation stage. if the workers are found to have broken any rules, any sanction should be the one that applies to said rules. likewise mr tostevin. (if and i repeat if big business is importing and using foreign workers illegally, the way to stop it is to punish hard the big business, not the used individuals).
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The foreigners in these pictures, are these not enough evidence? If not, I shall break into the vinery on the fourth full moon of next winter. Grab a dozen or so pictures, and send them to the GP.
Brucey should be prosecuted too if he is allowing those without license to live in a green house.
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There is nothing to this story. No one lives there and all the workers are above board.The press’s evidence, a photo at night.
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Hey Matt, get a life, the residents of Pointes lane have witnessed this for a long time, the fire was just the start of it coming out into the open, comings and goings to a vinery site at all hours of the night, didnt know flowers needed that sort of attention
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hey Dave, your department should have looked a bit harder then, or were the doors locked, only recently neighbours saw workers going in with duvets wrapped round them, perhaps they were having a sleepover party
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Yocal:
Hey Yocal, I suspect people may be living illegally in your house so I’m going to come and have a nose around. Wait, hang on, as the land owner do you think you may have something to say about that? Under what power is it you would like to States to ‘look a lot harder’. I take it you’re promoting a States department who can force entry to your property?
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Something is going on down at Pointes Lane as the Vinery is lit up like a Christmas Tree at night from what I can see!
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With all these snooping neighbours about, is it any wonder the bloke has night security staff?
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dave jones
housing should also monitor who is living in there states houses without them knowing?
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ah, now we understand, so its not unlawful under the housing control laws to have workers sleeping in vineries.Good oh, i can start kitting out my packing shed to get some extra cash
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One way or another this type of thing has been going on for years. When Frossard house was being built there were workers living on the building site. The states turned a blind eye to this as they were obviously benefitting from a bit of cheap labour.
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Cheap labor being ‘housed’ in sub standard, appalling conditions has been going on in the CI’s for years – one look at some of the staff ‘accommodation’ of a recently departed restauranteur could have told us that; though this is luxury compared to a case I am aware of (in Jersey), some years ago, where a couple and their children were living in a corrugated iron hut leaned up against a farm outhouse.
The only reason it came to light is because it was finally reported when the children developed frostbite.
IF proven guilty, then surely it is Mr Tostevin who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law…
whatever that is…probably a slapped wrist, lollypop and made to promise he won’t do it again til next Tuesday…
but as with the decades long, Kevs/Kev run debacle that everyone except our darling police appear aware of….
I won’t hold my breath.
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Scarlett:
Same old same old! It’s not an offence to be a Kev you know!
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I’m amazed at some of the posting on here. Beanjar, if you are guilty of robbing a bank you should be prosecuted, deported to Alderney and flogged. Up to now there is no evidence that you’ve robbed a bank, but you never know.
I am really glad the police are working so hard on this kind of thing. Leave the drug dealers downtown to fend for themselves. Guernsey has the major heroin problem at the moment and the yobbish behaviour is gathering momentum as youngsters feel more and more disenchanted with what life will or will not have to offer them. The gap between the very wealthy and the very poor grows daily and we are for some odd reason surprised that the bottom 5% turn to crime, drugs and lord only knows what else.
If you believe a crime has been committed just report it to the police and leave them to do their job. On the whole they are pretty good at it. If they charge somebody, and if they are prosecuted and subsequently found guilty we are all empowered to comment as much as we like to make ourselves feel righteous.
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Hey PC Hanson, why are you picking on me? The very first words of my post were “If it is true …” which is a long way off from rounding up a lynch mob. For a police apologist you are really going off on one – pull yer neck in!
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TM. The ONLY time I choose to take offence at Kevs is when they’re COMMITTING one by doing a ton along the public (‘s) highway and endangering others lives, unhindered (as the rest of us are) by all those silly ol’ laws and things the police are supposed to be there to enforce.
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Scarlett:
The police are always asking for Special Constables. Why don’t you join? You’d be able to do something about this problem that you mention so often rather than simply criticising the police at every opportunity.
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Thanks for the career advice, TM, you’re bang on, they certainly do appear to need some sort of special help.
Whilst I’m trying to assist them, perhaps you could become their official spokesman, then you could get paid for leaping to their defence at every opportunity as well! ;0)
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Scarlett:
It’ll feel good to be able to make a difference rather than moaning that others don’t – won’t it? ;-)
Hey – wouldn’t it be weird if after you joined the Specials you learned that there are legitimate reasons for not dealing with Kev’s they way you want them dealt with?! Perhaps it’s not quite as easy as you think?
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absolutely, TM, I’m feeling worthier of an opinion, already-!
As for the Kevs, I quite agree.
Speed traps, arrests, fines and bans seem to work for all the other road abusers, but the Kevs, bless them, are so very special and difficult (what with them only having used the same route, same times, for 20 plus years or so, and the island being so huge) that a different method should indeed be deployed….
I often wonder if Exocet missiles might do the job, especially when I hear them screaming past my house doing a ton or so, risking innocent lives for a bit of a thrill…
bit politically incorrect, do you think…? ;0)
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If housing were doing their job properly we wouldn’t have so many non local workers coming here and having often more than 1 job and working up to 80 hours a week.I reckon the unemployment rate could be cut to just over 100 if housing was to give out less licences,and stop workers doing 2 peoples jobs.
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Scarlett:
I personally think the ‘speed traps’ don’t work well at all. They are a one hit wonder for groups such as the Kevs… One sees the site up and running and promptly lets his/her mates know to avoid the area or behave when passing.
Next idea please.
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I. Le Page
Agreed,but that will only work if HSSD stop giving school leavers £80 a week POCKET MONEY not to work
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I. Le Page:
I don’t agree at all. The only people not working in Guernsey fall in to one of three categories:
1. Unable to through illness
2. Too young or too old to work
3. Too lazy to work
I know of three non-local people that came here to find work, all three have done so within a week of arriving. They taking NOTHING from the State and never have done. They pay taxes, and spend their money here on the island. They are not the problem here – these people are contributors.
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I completely agree l. Le Page, I disagree with Truth Man.
Truth Man, I’m pretty sure if they’re over here for “holiday” work, then they do not have to pay taxes. The island is over crowded enough and the less licenses handed out the better, State benefit should be reduced dramatically and perhaps have a time limit of 6 months. It should not be a way of life, only a last resort if finding a job.
The States need to grow a pair and reduce benefits.
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GG:
You are wrong. Again.
They do pay taxes. And they spend their salaries here.
When will you learn?!
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I think some of the people on here should try living on State benefits,its not easy.There are lots of local people who want a job but cant get one because there are too many people chasing too few jobs,and some employers only take on foreign workers cos they can pay low wages and have them work up to 80 hours a week.
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I.Le Page:
I agree, States benefits are low. They are also too accessible.
I don’t agree however about local jobs being taken by foreign workers to the detriment of local people. If you are capable and willing there is work here for you whether you are local or not. Trouble is, there are too many lazy people taking full advantage of the easily accessible benefits.
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Truth Man, the main reason foreigners come here is to send money back home, I doubt they spend the majority of their salary on island.
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truth man is right – 99% non-local workers pay their wack and earn their wack – if they have 2 or even 3 jobs that surely shows a laudable work ethic and good luck to them. it also shows that housing or whoever do not have the mandate from the powerful business community to tighten the rules on who gets to work here. and that is because big (local) business make heap good profits using non-local labour. that in turn might generate good tax returns but will leave in its wake increasing numbers of locals who cannot compete through disability and other restrictions. younger locals who made a mess of their start into adult life will struggle to turn that around when first class labour is available from overseas. big business will exchange a bigger states benefit bill for their bigger profits any day.
(and scarlett – i suggest a stinger to stop the kevs – i suggested a local recipe for a home made stinger to get the google car – you need gorse branches, old vraic forks and chancre shells . why not try it?)
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The states wont do anything about loads of foreign workers coming here to work because those that make the rules have many friends who are employers. By letting so many come in they are effectively cutting wage rates which is very handy for their friends profit margins. Why dont they allow any lawyer who so chooses to come and work here, the more lawyers should mean lower prices. Of course they’ve got to protect the poor souls, haven’t they. Sounds like a closed shop to me.
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GG:
Even if that was true (which you have no evidence of by the way), what they do with their net income is up to them – they have paid their tax here and have contributed. The opposite to the local (and some imported I grant you) lazys who have paid no tax here and take, whilst contributing nothing to the island.
The workers from elsewhere are not the problem.
Surely it must drive you nuts knowing so many people live for free whilst you at 17 have a myriad of jobs and qualifications?! ;-)
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TM. ah well, Exocets it is then…
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Cheap labour is pernicious in so many ways.
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Foreign workers do pay their wack, but get it all back if they work here less than a taxable year. What’s that about?
We need more cheap labour here to replace the militant postmen and the fire brigade
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Get the flags out I agree with Truth Man!
What I would add to his posts is this.
The states should run courses for the long term unemployed in skills required to get a result(a job) from an interview with an employer.These courses could cover subjects like turning up smartly dressed(for an interview), turning up on time,filling out an application form and so on.Failure to complete your course should mean a gradual reduction in your benefits.I’m fed up of saying this but I’ll say it one last time, depending on who you talk to there are between 3,000 and 6,000 guest workers in Guernsey there are probably 350 unemployed how are guest workers taking local persons’ jobs? Guest workers on my firm get paid the same as locals and the reason they work so many hours is to provide the astonishing levels of rent to greedy open market landlords. I could go on but I’ll get myself in trouble.
By the way stop taking my name in vain when describing the K…!
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Kevin:
And add: “These people could get to work, and fill the trading gap on Sundays…” ;-)
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The maths are simple 300 less licences,300 more jobs for local people.Plus guest workers are normally only licensed for 1 job,so those who have several are breaking the law,but housing are not enforcing it.
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Fact: Local student son seeks employment for 3 months from numerous firms etc, one of those being the Sandpiper group, (Safeway inc.) Told no jobs available for short-term, part-time employment
Fact: Safeway employs foreign lady, with religous covered head scarf.(This is NOT meant to be a racist comment).
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Truth Man,
Now you really have lost the plot!
Did my own survey in town two Saturdays ago (it was raining).
10.15 a.m most shops deserted,plenty of parking on all piers. Just come back from Liverpool, not pretty, everything closed on Sunday. Sorry mate.
Blogger,
We should have had a higher minimum wage then.
I Le Page
your complete lack of knowledge is breathtaking!
GG
So guest workers don’t pay rent,eat e.t.c. pathetic!
tooxar,
more ill informed rubbish. Guest workers are taxed as if they were here for 12 months and get a refund e.g say they earn £1000 per month the tax dept think they’ll earn £12,000 a year they only earn £9,000 so are due a small refund.What’s the problem?
By the way the local tax dept even try and find out if the guest workers earn any money(which they don’t because they’re knackered) when, for instance, they return home for two weeks holiday average pay £60 for 40 hours hardly the actions of a juristiction that would let people have tax back that they are not entitled to.
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While i agree safeways to have non local staff i think you will find the young lady with the headscarf is local and has worked there for a number of years and worked her way up to supervisor.
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Local – your post really is ignorant, racist and stupid at best.
Just because she’s foreign looking wearing a head scarf does not mean that they had to apply for a license for her. She may be here on her husbands license which gives her en-famille in which case she is interviewed exactly like your son. The fact that she’s foreign looking doesn’t mean much considering that we have 2nd/3rd generation Portuguese in Guernsey that have local status. What you’re implying is that we should adopt a “Hitler” style state and refuse everyone who’s foreign regardless of their type of license and regardless of their work ethic. I would be more inclined to take your post more seriously if you were debating if we are issuing the right number of essential licences, however just because your son didn’t get a job and Safeway had a foreign looking lady in a headscarf is laughable. Did you notice per chance all the “local” people working there? Which far outweigh those foreigners.
Maybe there wasn’t any short term jobs and there obviously was a job when this lady was employed however long before your son went asking. What were they supposed to do, sack the lady as your son came along?
Instead of complaining that it’s his god given right to have a job because he’s “local” install in him some values to go out there and win the job. There hasn’t been any jobs for the Company I work for in the Guernsey office for 5 months it’s a hard time out there for any job seekers.
You state “this is not meant as a racist comment” but just because you say that doesn’t make it so I’m afraid. You don’t have to have pitchforks running them out of town to be a racist or xenophobe.
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Well said Lynnie!
Local – if your son is anything similar to you i’m not surprised he can’t get a job.
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Kevin:
You are clearly wrong. It only rains on Sundays. Saturdays are when the shops are open and the sun shines.
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WHERE exactly would they be deported to GG???
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@ LOCAL
Interesting my son and daughter are both at Uni and have arranged local part-time jobs every vacation that they have had back on the island.
The work is definitely there if you look hard enough and are prepared to do anything.
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If they’re illegal immigrants, maybe back home PW Fudgedonut???
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GG
| August 23, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Truth Man, the main reason foreigners come here is to send money back home, I doubt they spend the majority of their salary on island.
So GG you spend ALL of your money on island do you never buy off the internet never take a foreign holiday very patriotic
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“Home” isn’t an exact place. Infact it is a quite a generic term wouldn’t you agree?
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I always have a little chuckle when I hear that people are struggling to find work. Out of all the unemployed there are small percentages that have genuine reasons but the rest are just making a choice not to work.
A lot of the work that is taken on by non-locals is because locals do not want to work for such low wages or the job itself can be dirty or just hard! In some ways I don’t blame the people who would be financially worse off then just claiming benefit so have no incentive either.
I don’t want to sound like my father but I have never had to claim benefit because I will wash dishes, clean or anything that pays a wage.
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To Donk,if thats true why did the number of unemployed suddenly go up by about 300?I think most employers will tell you that for every job advertised they are getting big numbers of applicants.
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non local, no I prefer to purchase from the internet. The internet is more local than some of the shops found on our highstreet, with foreigners demanding high rental fees.
Fudge Donut, I see home as the place you bought up.
For instance, if you were born in Latvia, you illegally move to Guernsey, live in some old Greenhouse, then he/she should be deported back “home” to Latvia.
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So GG, how many shop premises on the High Street are owned by “foreigners”? And I’m not sure that we are allowed to deport EU nationals.
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GG – you are sounding as xenophobic and nasty as ever. 1 – define foreigner. 2 – name me one foreigner charging a rental higher than the highest charged by a local landlord? 3. explain exactly how any one internet ‘shop’ is more local than your alleged foreign high street shop? … well? … ok, in your own time then.
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think we are missing a point here, apparantly last time it hit papers regarding sleeping in vinery it was witnessed by the fire brigade, what are the authorities doing about it, perhaps it is legal to sleep in greenhouses or alike, perhaps so long as you have a right to work its ok.
But dont you have to have an address of abode to get a right to work, CONFUSED
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