Streetlights ‘should stay on later to keep women safe’
Thursday 2nd September 2010, 11:30AM BST.
A policeman guards the cordon at the bottom of Forest Lane – scene of two of the three linked sexual assaults since the middle of July. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1018010)
FOLLOWING a serial sex attacker striking in the early hours of the morning, worried islanders want Town streetlights left on for longer.
With four lone women sexually assaulted in the St Peter Port area in the last six weeks, safety calls are now growing.
As officers continued their inquiries yesterday and announced that a fifth man had been arrested in connection with the attacks, police confirmed to the Guernsey Press that they were already discussing lighting in Town with the authorities.
All the attacks happened during the early hours when it was still dark.
People spoken to this week said it was time something was done about lighting darker Town areas for longer.
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Ok im not a women but I do have a wife that on some occasions walks home late through town, I think its a good idea to have the street lights on for a longer time but would it not be better to have town marshals or something like that that could be a visual deterrent to those that do go out and do these things. Would the cost of two or 3 people walking the streets of a night be that much to the states then the price of lighting the town,
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Good idea in principle but of course someone will start moaning soon how it is unfair the St. Peter Port residents will have to foot the electric bill.
@william – I would imagine the cost of lighting the town until say 3am on a Thursday to Sunday would be A LOT cheaper than employing several ‘marshalls’ to walk around town and surrounding areas!
Anything to make the streets safer but in my humble opinion a punishment should fit the crime – that should be a deterrent in itself rather than the ‘risk’ of being seen to a potential attacker.
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Why not take some of those down at Vazon sitting comfy in their air-conditioned cars at 11pm into town for that period of time, it makes much more sense, as that is where people are being raped, so what if you miss a few takings from speeders, there are lives are risk in town.
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I agree with William. Besides, do the alleyways actually have street lamps? If something is not done soon then vigilante justice will come into force, and that’ll end badly for all parties involved
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Ok lets see ! if Buster Keaton and his Keystone Cops were to be as vigilant with patrols in and around St Peter Port as they were out trying to catch the motorist, then perhaps there would be less trouble,like whats been happening here and also rowdiness, fights, groups drinking and being abusive to all they meet. I remember in the days queing around the chicken platter and other places, if an argument or fight broke out as soon as the cops came into view either on foot or van everyone would stop and behave, the police would usually hang around albeit in view but at a distance until some of the crowd/queue’s had lessened, just a thought.
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William, we already have these ‘town marshalls’ they’re called ‘police officers’ and they appear to prefer sitting warm in the station having a cup of tea than actually going out and fighting these criminals.
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I did always wonder why lights came on so early when there is still light in the sky but when you really need them they are off. Ive also notice public loos lights on all day then off at night, backwards??
Lights will help but there not going to stop this problem. You need to catch them and when you do show no mercy. CCTV will help a lot it may not catch them in the act but get them walking up the lane 5mins before it happens as a example.
Someone made a good point on one of these storys about CCTV. People worry about big brother thing with CCTV but really there isnt someone watching it 24/7 when something is repoted they check the camera at that time. (quote) Without realising it you are on camera many hundreds of times a day so whats the difference? look at all the traffic light cameras, shop window cameras , petrol station camera etc.
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I think its great that the states and police are looking for solutions to protect those who walk home of a night, and yes it would cost less to leave a street light on for an extra few hours but when you look at the coast of the light pollution for the people living in town and the fact that anyone living near a street light after 12pm of a night can claim for black out blinds to block the light its only a matter of time that a few pounds adds up. If the police for some reason can not walk the streets after a certain time for what ever reason bed times or the boggy man then, a community marshal team would work well there is always people wanting to give back and volunteer along side the police.
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There already are a lot of police in town on fri/sat into the early hours.They often have to deal with aggressive people who are refused entry to pubs or clubs,or who resist being thrown out of clubs etc.,after causing trouble inside.In some cases this can tie up as many as 4 policemen and some door-staff as well.
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There is no doubt that the street lights in St Peter Port (and elsewhere for that matter) need to stay on longer into the night than they are at present. The presence of good lighting, coupled with adequate CCTV, will of course not prevent all night-time crime; but it would make many would-be offenders think twice if they thought there was a much bigger chance of them being identified and caught. I would imagine that the current policy of turning the street lights off after 1am or 2am is entirely financially motivated. That mindset needs to change, and change quickly. You cannot put a price on the safety of individuals who are preyed upon at night.It’ll be interesting to see what local politicians are going to be saying about this issue. If they defend the status quo, they will look rather callous and mean. If they do advocate keeping the street lights on longer, with the economic implications of that, then we need to be told how this will be paid for.
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In addition to the post above…surely this is an obvious example of how Guernseys poor drinking culture is a direct knock on effect toward a wasted distribution of police resources on a weekend.
Until there is some sort of massive culture change in acceptable drinking practises this misallocation of severely limited and precious human resources will continue.
The consequences of this are again patent…more henious crimes will be committed in the absence of a decent police presence.
Street lights do not stop violent crime…a decent police presence does. The vast majority of these guys and girls are doing there best in a demanding job continually constrained by ever complicated laws and guidelines.
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Can we not just ban alcohol? It would solve a huge amount of problems.
An if the street lights are staying on longer for people who are out on the town, I do not expect to have to pay for them, when I am tucked up in my St Peter Port bed by 9pm. Perhaps a levy on the businesses that are open until late at night / early hours of the morning and thus responsible for people being out at that time.
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Prohibition wouldn’t work. I like a drink as much as the next person. Drink should be used and NOT abused is a statement that most Brits don’t seem to understand. The culture we have is deplorable and embarrassing. It suprises me that Guernsey people want to mirror these shameful practises we see week in week out in the UK.
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@Eh, that’s right – if there is a problem then BAN something, that always works.
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Agree with you 100% Dean – by that logic we should ban all knives (how will I cut my steak)….in fact why not ban everything that’s ever been used as a weapon? So, that’ll be bricks, pens, glasses, bottles etc. etc.
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I cannot understand anyone walking home alone not kitted out with a personal alarm, have you heard the sound these things make, enough to drive anyone mad, you only have to pull the pin out, I wondered if the police give them out free or perhaps we could advertise where you can buy them, they are only small and can fit on a belt or bag etc.
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Keeping the street lights on later might not stop an attacker but it could give a potential victim a false sense of safety about walking alone. I live in town and have a street light outside my bedroom window, I wouldn’t even notice if it stayed on later but I don’t think it would help this situation plus most of the smaller roads/alleyways where attacks are more likely to happen don’t have street lights. I think CCTV or more police around town would be more affective.
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Obestity already a problem in Guernsey leaving lights on longer will only light the womens way to the next Fast Food Outlet.
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Jimm:
Why don’t you become a Special Constable so you can check your ‘facts’ out?
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If you agee join this facebook page: Good CCTV for town GSY.
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I disagree with CCTV, it doesn’t stop anything. More police are needed on the streets, rather than catching people going 36 in a 35.
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Hi Valeite
I’m not sure this would be picked out of the sounds which are quite common in town on a Friday/Saturday night. I.e. car alarms etc. I also fear that if a girl screamed that also wouldn’t call any attention. Last night there was a girl and some friends laughing and giggling for about half an hour in my road, it was quite irritating. The giggling was interrupted by one of the girls shouting ‘ow’ every now and then but I had absolutely no inclination to wander down and ask her if she was ok. Apparently the best thing to shout is ‘fire’.
I went into town on Friday night for a meal and drinks with a few friends. We were sat in Luna towards the end of our night (about midnight) and saw two police vans go past (just patrolling). We had passed another one stationed outside Boots, however did not see any police presence when we were on the south esplanade or when we walked home up by the rib shack alley (which is very dark and secluded) and into the Canichers. In fact I live in the Canichers not far from Bosq lane and I never see any police presence. Sometimes it can’t be helped walking home on your own late at night. Last night for example I went out to a friends came back about midnight, couldn’t park near my house so had to park in North Beach and walk up Bosq lane. Not ideal but then what could I do? (I actually did the old trick of pretending to be on my phone).
As well as town I think the police would do well to station themselves at busy hotspots such as a Les Canichers (as it’s a popular walkthrough) and also perhaps the bordage/charroterrie.
It’s all very good handing out flyers telling us not to walk home on our own or get a taxi (when it will take us, which I doubt they would do in my case) but there needs to be more police presence.
I also think it’s wrong that these were called “sexual attacks” rather than what they in fact were which was rape. My friends and I were convinced it wasn’t as serious and I know a sexual attack is always serious but personally I would pay more attention to the word ‘rape’ or ‘attempted rape’ than ‘sexual attack’ due to its ambiguity.
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Lynnie:
I agree, I also used to live on Les Canichers and rarely saw a police officer… However, I think, in fairness they do station themselves at busy hotspots. I often see them outside the clubs & busier pubs at key times as well as patrolling the High Street. I also suspect that from a police perspective some of the hotspots are Les Genats, Bouet, you know what I’m getting at. In which case I am betting they are very well patrolled by virtue of attending & leaving incidents on those regions.
I suppose it is a case of finite resources providing us with a finite level of policing. Personally I would happily pay more tax if it meant greater police numbers for us.
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Wot Lynnie says re sexual assault v rape.
If it was rape then police should have said rapist about. Might have saved one bird from being attacked.
whats more important, nabbing a geezer or protecting the gals?
Well done for arreting someone like, but not too smart about how it woz handled. Did ya need two birds roughed up?
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How about actually switching on the CCTV cameras and monitoring them around the place. Like when my car got vandelised on North beach had the cameras been on, my car was in full view of them then the culprits would have been known!
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Truth Man
I doubt thare’s much chance of someone getting raped outside Folies or Fusion, I think Lynnie’s point was that it’s the darker areas that need more of a police presence.
Her point about taxis is also very valid, I have talked to 2 female friends in the last week, one who lives in the Canichers area and one in the Strand area. Both of them said that taxis had refused to take them home in the past due to the length of the journey. I may be wrong but I think that in London a black cab driver HAS to take a fare unless there is good reason for not doing so (passenger very drunk etc) the fact that it’s only a short trip IS NOT sufficent reason to refuse to take somebody. Surely we could have a similar policy in place over her for licensed taxis?
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I remember a press article on CCTV being put up in Mill st at no cost to the tax payer. Maybe someone should talk to these guys who can supply this service. Who knows they maybe up for offering some help.
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Phil:
Well since you know what Lynnie meant without taking account of what she wrote in her last post why don’t you also write her next post for her?!
Just for your information, what she actually talked about were “busy hotspots such as a Les Canichers (as it’s a popular walkthrough) and also perhaps the bordage/charroterrie.”
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Can I just say I beleive they have one who has been charged who has been charged with two counts of rape and one attemp thats great but are they still out there looking for the others who did this????
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Truth Man
Oh dear, you really have a problem with me pointing out the errors in your posts don’t you?
Lynnie said that the lane by the Ribshack is “very dark and secluded” does that not give you a clue? Your point about seeing police outside clubs and pubs isn’t really relevant with regard to the problem of women being attacked is it?
I hope that you also now realise that the very point of the police force is that they enforce the law – I don’t understand how you didn’t realise that, being such an armchair expert as you are.
Also interesting to see you’ve given up on trying to defend the way in which this investigation was handled, which possibly led to more women being attacked than would have otherwise happened if they’d known there was a RAPIST at large as soon as the first attack had happened.
Perhaps “Unable to work out the Truth Man” would be a more apt name for you.
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Phil
You are absolutely right. London cabs are not permitted to refuse a fare within a certain radius of the city. They levy a minimum fare (I think its £2.40 and I think there’s a minimum fare here as well) before you even get in. I’ve done it many a time in London when its been hosing with rain. Taxi drivers don’t like a small fare, especially when they’ve been queueing for ages for a fare, but that’s unlikely to be a problem after midnight at weekends in St Peter Port!
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I don’t go wondering off into the dark nights, so perhaps I am least lightly to be able to comment on the above – however, as an ex-community nurse, I carried a torch….. I just think the onus should now be on the women themselves to take more responsibility for their walking home.
Also – i think there should be an apology for those writers (not necessarily on THIS thread) who suggested that the rapist was a guest worker.
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Phil:
You have read into Lynnie’s post, but your interpretation, or what you want her to be saying is not what she actually said.
Similarly you do not read my posts properly and you place your own interpretation on the words. I am sorry, but based on our previous debates and your constant fallacies of argument I see no point in our conversation continuing.
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Phil:
Just one last thing – I am certainly not an armchair expert, but law is a subject I understand very, very well.
Just to clarify: The police do not enforce the law. Only the courts can enforce the law. If you think other wise you clearly do not understand our judicial system.
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Phil:
Last one (!), I can actually think of one, possibly two occasions when the police do enforce the law – can you tell me when they are?! Maybe I will have to eat my words and accept the police can enforce the law on a few limited occasions.
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David:
I agree, although additionally, in practice in London many cabs refuse to take fares because that’s not their direction of travel on the way home or they know the destination is somewhere where it will be difficult to collect a fare. Against the rules, but practically it happens all the time.
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Truth Man
I’m getting very bored with all this now – the job of the police is to ENFORCE THE LAW. You don’t seem to be able to distinguish between law enforcement and sentencing / judging guilt. Why do you think that the police, customs etc are referred to as law enforcement agencies?
Surely there’s a police officer or an advocate who can clarify the position more clearly than I can, my brain has become mashed with saying the same thing time and again!!
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Phil:
May be called Law Enforcement, but it is not an accurate description. In other words they may be law enforcement in name but it is not what their role actually is in law.
The exceptions are:
1. When a police officer executes a warrant issued by a court (in this case the law has dictated that a person is arrested, and the police are enforcing that law by effecting the arrest – they are acting as agents of the court)
2. When a police officer executes his/her common law power of arrest to prevent a breach of the peace (in this case a court is not required to preside over the police’s decision although the power is limited to whilst the Breach of the Peace is occurring or likely to occur, or re-occur). The use of the law is taken to conclusion by the police alone.
In all other cases laws are enforced by the courts. The police are simply the medium that is entitled to use the law and certain powers and provisions to put a case before the courts, thus asking them to consider the case, and enforce the law.
Aside from the example 2 there is not one law that the police can act as judge and jury on. It is for these reasons that the police do not enforce the law.
To summarise – you showed the inaccuracy of your understanding when you said “You don’t seem to be able to distinguish between law enforcement and sentencing / judging guilt”. The two are one and the same – there is no distinction (unless you do not understand how the judicial system works).
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Truth Man
Enforcing the law is the act of ensuring that laws are complied with, when they are not the police are able to act accordingly i.e. arrest the person who is not complying.
Should the law officers decide that there is a realistic prospect of prosecution that person then appears before a court which then decides (should he/she plead not guilty) whether he/she is guilty or not, and decides upon an appropriate punishment.
It’s as simple as that really, the police enforce the law, the law officers pass cases on to the courts who then dispense justice accordingly.
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Leaving street lights on all night is not very green is it.
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Phil:
It’s a play on words, nothing worth debating further. I can see why you as a lay person default to feeling that the police enforce the law. The fact is, it is the courts who enforce it – the police simply use some powers granted by some laws to take a case to court.
By the way – it is not usually the Law Officers who decide whether or not a case is going to court. First post is the custody Sgt for those who are arrested. If he/she decides to bail for a decision (or is compelled to do so by virtue of the detainees age) then the police will usually still make the decision (second post) (or the Convenor for those under 18). The Law Officers really only become involved to prevent conflicts of interest, in high profile cases, or where a particularly complex case needs consideration from the person who will ultimately be prosecuting it.
Hope this helps.
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How about publandlords printing some
“Stop..
Think First..
Just don’t drink, save your money and then you won’t be at risk of sexual assault” flyers…?
just an idea!
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Unless these criminals have a rather irregular phobia of lights, or are indeed vampires, then having the light stay on for longer will NOT solve the problem.
The Guernsey police need to show a little back-bone here and actually, and I know this may shock them, some actual police work. They need regular patrols around the town area. And I’m not just saying more bobby’s walking up and down the high street ogling at the young girls, I’m talking about the outskirts of town also. The likes of Candie Road, the Grange, Val de Terres. May I also point out that the length of their shifts will also have to increase. Knocking off after the clubs kick out is simple not good enough!
Either that or plaster the streets of Guernsey with CCTV. An expense, i’m sure the states would object to
My2Cents
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My2Cents:
What you seem to promote is the idea of more police officers. Or is that not what you meant? If it was what you meant, I agree totally, our police are totally underfunded.
By the way – about the officers who go home after the clubs kick out, do you know what time their shift started?
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Here’s an idea, how about the coppers that sit at cobo, vazon, the bridge (doing nothing)sitting with their speed guns trying to get kids on their scooters or “kev cars” for speeding they could give us ladies a lift home! seeing as taxi’s refuse to take fares that are within a certin distance! I think its only fair seeing as the police were the ones who kept some of these attacks from the public they should do the public a favour and help us women!
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Truth Man:
Don’t get me wrong, extra funding would help expediently, but what I was pointing out, in my round-about way, was that the local force need to expand their horizons and realise that not all of the trouble that happens in town, happens on the high street. They would benefit enormously from patrolling the outskirts.
As for the time of shifts, not being a copper myself, I don’t have the foggiest idea sorry! But having worked in a local pub for a number of years I can’t help but notice that come 2:30am onwards, theirs not a policeman to be seen, other then waiting outside of one of the clubs.
What I hope the police force and hopefully the states also will see, is that this problem will not go away, you can’t just brush it under the carpet as they do with so many other issues. What I’m afraid will happen is that the local ‘town-goers’ will be arming themselves for some vigilante mayhem! And once that happens, it will be a very slippery slope
My2Cents
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My2Cents:
I agree totally, the island as a whole needs more patrol time. In fairness, I think the police place themselves where experience has shown them the most trouble happens. This is common sense resource deployment, but due to finite resources this sadly leaves the rest of us wondering where our local police force are as they are not visible where we live/work etc!
I also agree that the States need to see this problem will not go away. I think the police would also agree, and are well versed on issues such as this considering they are dealing with them in person day in day out. Trouble is, we run a low tax economy and therefore by definition all of our public services have to be under funded. I would welcome paying more tax if it was going to go to where we need it most. Trouble is, none of us have a strategic perspective so we have to be honest and say we don’t really know where it is needed. All we know is what we think would be best within our own little snap-shot of life and anecdotal experience.
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