Police ‘had reasons’ for not alleging sexual assaults were rape
Tuesday 7th September 2010, 11:30AM BST.
POLICE have defended their decision not to define recent alleged sexual assaults as rape, when their investigations started.
Detective Chief Inspector Ruari Hardy (pictured) said the wording used by officers was specific for a number of reasons, some of which were legal.
‘The phrase “serious sexual assault” conveys the significance of the matter under investigation.
‘It is the duty of the police to alert the public and not alarm them,’ he said.
DCI Hardy declined to say what damage it would do to the investigation if the incidents had been defined as rape originally.
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If there was an indiscriminate serial killer on the loose in Guernsey please alarm me with the facts, rather than just alert me to be on the lookout for a person of somesuch description wanted in connection with an alleged assault. P..lease.
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I think it was an ill-advised decision not to define that there was a rapist on the loose in Guernsey recently. Throughout the recent spate of sexual attacks, I have continued to walk home from town and up Candie Road at night, whenever the necessity arose, feeling reasonably secure in my ability to see off any would-be sex pest. However, had I known that in fact there was a violent rapist on the rampage, I would of course have taken a very different view.
I think in future rapes should be differentiated from sex attacks. In my view the two are significantly different in terms of seriousness and concern to the public.
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I fully agree with DCI Hardy’s statement “It is the duty of the police to alert the public and not alarm them”.
What I don’t understand is why they DIDN’T alert the public for several weeks, thereby failing in their duty as per their own definition.
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So according to this guy, it was the duty of Guernseys police to “alert the public”.
Big fail then a!
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excuse my ignorance, and this is a genuine question, but what else could they mean by “serious sexual assualt”? To me, that means rape or attempted rape, i don’t see what else it could be?
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Now Phil, I agree with you entirely. I knew there’d be some common ground somewhere!
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starry:
I agree, once the police informed the public (albeit late in my view), the fact they called it a serious sexual assault covered rape and the other offences that took place. I see no need to go into further detail.
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Because of the hysterical way the “Guernsey Press” reports things, I was rather expecting the nature of the offences to be at the less serious end of the scale.
I don’t doubt for a moment that I was alone in drawing that conclusion.
The blame lays more at the door of the “Guernsey Press” than it does with the Guernsey Police in my opinion
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Serious sexual assault can mean all sorts of things surely?
If a woman was held down for a length of time and manhandled in a sexual way (but not involving any intercourse of any kind) surely that would be classed as a serious sexual assault (if it isn’t it certainly ought to be).
The word “rape” is definitive in everybody’s mind I would suggest, the term “serious sexual assault” isn’t (that has been proved by various women’s postings on these issues over the last few weeks).
Why allow the possibility of women not treating these attacks as seriously as they ought to be? Just report the facts in plain and simple terms that everyone understands, and not with generic terms that could have a wide ranging meaning.
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I’m trying to think of the reasons why they would not use the word rape and can only conclude two theories
1. That they had not yet confirmed if it was an ellgation of rape , attempted or just a sexual assault so therefore covered all possibilities by calling it a serious sexual assault. HOWEVER the big flaw in that theory is that they didn’t report it until a month after the first alleged attack at which point they would have been able to determine whether or not it was rape.
2. Perhaps they thought it was consensual but that the girl was then allegedly attacked afterwards in which case it technically wouldn’t be rape but would still be an attack. Although the likelihood of that actually happening would be slim at best.
Nope sorry Guernsey Police not buying it. I would hope for a further article once the trial has taken place and the person has been found innocent or guilty therefore (apart from sensitive confidential information) the reasons why should be given.
GP please follow this up, I think this is a very big question that deserves an appropriate response.
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I do not think it reasonable to expect the police to tell the press (or the press to report) the specifics of a case where a serious sexual assault has occurred.
What if a woman is not raped, but is digitally penetrated by force? What if she is orally penetrated by force? Anally penetrated by force? None of these are rape in Guernsey. Do we honestly need such detail? No of course we don’t, and we should not expect it. It is not fair on the victims, could affect an investigation, and is completely unnecessary if people turn off their “I know best” attitude and listen to the message being transmitted and the advice being given.
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Completely agree Phil. I have to say I was more than surprised when I found out it was a rape charge.
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Anyone that says they carried on as normal because it was only a serious sexual assault and not rape, want their heads testing!
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The police kept the public in the dark over this matter for almost a month ,and then tone down the statement they release so that they dont alarm anyone .The facts are that another rape has occured some time after the first and if the first attacks had been reported the day after they happened in the press then the following attacks may have been prevented.On the bbc news website ,this morning ,is news of an attack http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-11226943 this happened on saturday and its in the news already ,Why ? so that they can try and prevent any further attacks by apprehending him asap !. Our police do things differently though .
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Phil – very true.
If you say to somebody “serious sexual assault” it could mean a number of things and to me personally, wouldn’t necessarily mean rape or make me scared which is what I think is definitely necessary in these circumstances. I would rather be “alarmed” than “alerted”!
Rape means one thing which should scare most women! It should have been pointed out more clearly from the very start.
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Phil, perhaps the use of generic terminology comes down to ensuring that any trial and subsequent conviction was not prejudiced by stating any specific allegations within the media.
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I understand that in law there are specific meanings to the various “stages” of sexual assault. A serious sexual assault is nearly always rape. However, surely it is just a matter of semantics. Just like buggery is another way of saying anal sex.
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“Sexual assault” could mean an indecent assault, something distinct in Law from an actual rape. Rape is defined narrowly in Guernsey. The term rape under local law does not include, for example, so called digital penetration or anal penetration. Such acts in Guernsey would be charged as indecent assault or buggery respectively.
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Truthman. Your comments are spot on.
Do Guernsey Police understand that this is the 21st century, where ordinary folk have civil rights and expectation of protection by the law, not the 12th century, where ‘droit de seigneur’, the legally enforced vaginal penetration by the local seigneur of uwilling brides on their wedding nights, was commonplace.
However we are talking here of a police force who don’t even know what Habeas Corpus means so, sadly, I cannot say that I am surprised.
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Recently received a letter bearing an Alderney stamp with a quote from Florence Nightingale:
‘…how very little can be done under a spirit of fear…’
Well doesn’t that just say it all about the the law of rape in Guernsey, the hapless Guernsey public always looking over its shoulder, and the the often inexplicable decisions of the Guernsey police?
Of course one realises Alderney isn’t Guernsey but for Heaven’s sake it is in the same Bailiwick.
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coyote:
I am not sure where your comments re the police arise from, and wonder if I am mis-interpreting what you are saying?
Re your second paragraph 11/09/10: 11:11 it seems as though you criticise the police for following the law of rape? Our sexual offences laws desperately need updating, but it is not the remit of the police to write legislation (and quite rightly too).
Regarding Habeas Corpus, from the public/police relationship perspective this is an almost unnecessary piece of legislation now since from the moment of detention by the police a person is protected, and the police governed, by PPACE (PACE in the UK). One of the main thrusts and default positions of this piece of legislation is the release of any detained person UNLESS the police have a specific reason or set of reasons to continue to detain them. This is strictly monitored, and the decisions made under it are fully auditable. Well before anyone would need to appeal to the court under Habeas Corpus, the checks and balances provided by PPACE would have kicked in either forcing the release of the person before they became unlawfully detained, or as soon as it had become apparent that they were being unlawfully detained (in which case a compensation claim will follow).
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Soory, Truthman, you misunderstood me. I am criticising the police for seemingly ignoring the possible threat of rape or sexual assault on unsuspecting women by remaining quiet about the fact that there was a person wandering about committing just these crimes. This would have been acceptable in the 12th century when all women were fair game but it is not acceptable in the 21st century.
Habeas Corpus is a cornerstone of modern democracy. It means that the police cannot hold someone indefinitely without charge. In the UK a person must be either charged, or released, or brought before magistrates for the police to request further time for questioning, within twenty four hours. I believe that this does not ahppen on Guernsey.
About four years ago a young man was stabbed to death outside Clinton Cards but after the killer was arrested it was months before he was either told the charge or what would be happening to him. After six months he was charged, eventually tried, found guilty and imprisoned.
In the UK he would have been either charged or detained under a magistrates decision within twenty four hours and he would have known exactly what the score was. I have no sympathy at all for murderers but you have to follow the principle that anyone arrested has the right to know the charges s/he faces.
On Guernsey in 1900 there was the horrendous case of a man named Louie Harris who fell foul of the differences in the English and Guernsiaise legal systems. After a year of being held without charge he was finally accused of kidnapping his adopted son. Philip Ahier wrote up the case under the title ‘A Crying Evil’.
Proper democracy is important and Guernsey needs to understand that.
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Coyote.
Truth Man said it the position with arrested people in Guernsey is the same as in the UK. The person four years ago was not kept in custody until the appropriate charge was decided. He would have been on bail. The same process that takes place in the UK. Any person arrested knows from the moment of arrest what the basis of the allegation is. The same as the UK. The person cannot be kept longer \than 24 hours wiuth out authorisation by a senior police officer. THis can only be extended for 12 hours. A further extension can be authorised by the Court. When in custody there are frequent reviews of a persons detention to ensure that there is a necessity to keep the person in custody. People have rights to an advocate, to have someone informed of their arrest and to consult a copy of the codes of practice that govern their treatment etc when detained. There are also independent cudtoy visitors who pay unanounced visits at the cell area of the police station. There are numerous checks and balances that do include the judiciary. The same as the UK.
I don’t see where the 12th century comment has come from. If it still was like the 12th century then no one would currently be in custody charged with offences. Remaining quiet about something does not necessarily mean that nothing is being done about it. You do not know what was done about in any detail at all. What an outrageous ascertion to make by implication that the Police service in Guernsey see females as ‘fair game’! Presumably you have some demonstrable evidence of this? If you have for god sake get it out in the open and expose it. However I suspect that you do not have a shred of evidence for that throw away line.
Time check this is 2010 not 1900 and what happened then cannot happen now, so why mention it in a context where people can be lulled into thinking that the way things in 1900 were are how they are now.
Guernsey understands democracy….hey you can write what you write without the fear of the state coming to your door and dragging you to a Gulag out in the middle of nowhere! Or can you?
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coyote:
I agree totally with your first sentiment re the delay in informing the public.
However, your following bits on Habeas Corpus are somewhat inaccurate.
The time-scales to which you refer (In the UK a person must be either charged, or released, or brought before magistrates…) are strictly set by what England and Wales call PACE – the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Guernsey has almost exactly the same Law, except here it is called PPACE. There are some very minor differences to account for local issues (for example in the UK some powers must be granted by a Superintendent, in Guernsey they may be granted by a Chief Inspector). Aside from that it is pretty much word for word a direct lift from the UK Act, meaning detainees in Guernsey are governed by the same time-scales you are referring to.
The situation you describe re the delay in charging the male who stabbed someone can happen legitimately under PACE and PPACE legislation and would certainly also happen in the UK if the circumstances made it necessary. It sounds like the male was either released on bail, or without bail, whilst the investigation was furthered to the point where there was sufficient evidence to charge. This took 6 months. The difference is, in the UK under a fairly new Act the police could have applied pre-charge bail conditions if a threshold was met. In Guernsey that cannot happen. In essence, your sentiment is the wrong way around – the law in Guernsey is much, much more liberal than in the UK.
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