Guernsey joins the top five
Wednesday 15th September 2010, 2:30PM BST.
GUERNSEY is now one of the top five specialist financial centres in the world, according to global trade magazine The Banker.
The island improved its score by nine points in the publication’s rankings, jumping four places from last year’s position to fourth.
It is the second year in a row that The Banker has undertaken research on international finance centres, within which it compiles a separate table for specialised centres such as Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man, because it says data for these jurisdictions is seldom consistent with that of larger financial centres.
Chief executive of GuernseyFinance Peter Niven (pictured) said the improvement was encouraging.
However, Guernsey still trails Jersey, which placed third, down a place from last year, with Bermuda in second and the Cayman Islands in first.
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I feel so proud.
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Guernsey is also top five in the “snobby posh paid too much banker” league, however this publication has a name that rhymes with banker.
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So what do you two do for a living then? I trust it is something that isn’t paid for by the income generated by the finance sector?
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Eh
Typical myopic attitude. Why aspire to Cayman or Bermuda? They are universally known as the most corrosive secrecy jurisdictions. I thought we weren’t supposed to be like them. That’s what I was told. I was lied to again, by the same old, same old.
Pathetic. Like your comment.
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Arnald – any danger of you actually answering my question? Especially if you like it.
But I suppose the answer would just prove my point, which is why you chose not to answer it.
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I’m fed up of people like Enigma continually bashing the finance sector on this island. Why can’t you actually be proud that we have a thriving, well regulated and expert sector that provides a lot of benefits for the island. (Think income tax take, sponsorship and community/charity projects locally).
The majority of people that work in finance locally are normal people, that are not on a massive wage, that work and study damn hard to be able to work in an increasingly regulated environment. ‘Snobby, posh, paid too much banker?’ Far from it – brought up in a states house, messed up at A-levels and have worked bloody hard since to make my own way in life for me & my family. Struggling at times to pay the mortgage but getting by.
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Eh
As it happens I don’t. If I did, however, would that stop me having a right to criticise the finance industry?
It is your kind of attitude that reinforces the critics’ opinions that secrecy jurisdictions are so far removed from reality that their champions sound like spoilt brats with entitlement issues.
I am screamed at repeatedly that Guernsey is different. Clearly it is not.
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Arnald – we are not a secrecy jurisdiction in any way, shape or form.
Everyone has a right to criticise anything, but others also have a right of response.
There are very few industries in the island that do not rely on the finance sector either directly or indirectly, so which is it?
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@Arnald
So have you changed jobs then? If you haven’t then methinks you are being somewhat economical with the truth.
And I think you are way off beam if you are viewing Bermuda to be anything like Cayman. You clearly know zip about Bermuda’s finance industry. Its probably the cleanest of all offshore jurisdictions globally – yes, even cleaner than Guernsey.
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Steady Arnald.Watch the blood pressure mate
I say that in a caring way
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Thanks Ray. I know you mean it.
Eh. List those industries not dependent on siphoning money from other countries’ real economies in order to line the pockets of the very few.
Bo Nidle
Prove it. And no, it’s not proving a negative. You’ve stated that Bermuda is ‘cleaner than Guernsey’.
Tell me how. I’m intrigued to know where Guernsey’s ‘dirt’ is.
D’oh! Good one.
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@Arnald
Not easy to prove as I’m sure you will understand.
However Bermuda’s finance industry is very heavily domonated by captive insurance companies owned by multinationals, especially frop the US. Their business is very public as the Bermuda subsidiaries are clearly disclosed in the accounts of the parent companies. They also have a fund business which is totally different from that of Cayman or BVI, both of which spcialise in “light touch” local regfulation. Bermuda is far more involved in much larger fund groups, with more institutional money. They only have 3 banks there, and banking is nowhere near as prevalent an industry as it is in say Cayman (circa 500 banks). Their trust and fiduciary industry is very different to the Caribbean jurisdictions – no shelf companies available – and the industry is mainly made up of a modest number of larger players than exist elsewhere. Their fees are expensive, which drives away more marginal business, and they have far less poor quality legancy business than other jurisdictions, including Guernsey.
Guernsey has made massive progress over the past 10-15 years to eradicate itself of the old lower quality legacy business and general perception is that maybe 95% has long left these shores. Bermuda had very little of such legancy business in the first place, and so is almost certainly “even cleaner” than Guernsey as a result.
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Sarah,
As I used to work in the finance industry, I’m talking from experience. I have no problem with the finance sector or the normal people like yourself who work in it, it’s the minority who drive around in £50k+ posh/sports cars and whose arrogance for anyone “below” them is palpable.
Also I have a single parent background, never got the chance to do A levels and now work bloody hard to make my own way in life for me and my (hopefully) future family. Oh and I’ll be lucky to ever get a mortgage.
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Arnald – please would you clarify your question? I am not sure I understand it, sorry.
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Ah yes Bo
Captive insurance and multinationals.
As transparent as the day is long! Add the PCCs and there’s no need to ask any questions!
Dear oh dear
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@Arnald
Blimey you’ve got more than a chip on your shoulder – more like a ton of spuds.
So, institutional business in a very well-regulated jurisdiction involving subsidiaries of listed companies, audited by the Big 4 isn’t good enough for you is it? Oh well – its clearly going to be impossible to satisfy you so there’s no point in even trying.
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objective critics of the local finance industry from a world wide ethical perspective know full well that it benefits the island. the average finance worker does ok and tries to keep their family together against uncontrolled extraordinary housing costs and has not a clue where their client company’s tax-avoiding, worker-exploiting and environmentally-degrading mineral mining location actually is, ‘cos eastenders and second holidays matter more than indonesian natives in mud filled mineshafts. other temporary workers in guernsey simply use the island as a ‘just-passing’ mega quick-buck and stepping stone to the next tax avoidance house. the cream take the cream and the clients avoid tax. the island is a whore to international tax avoidance and poor people world wide bear the brunt. i too have a higher standard of living as a result but will not kid myself its origin is anything but unequal and unethical.
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Do me a favour, Bo.
Why don’t you look at the track record of the Big 4, their fines and their failures, their involvement in third world corruption and their continuing support for accounting practices that benefit fraudsters and spivs.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about if you think their level of corporate honesty is something worth applauding.
It is generally as blah says. Turn a blind eye because you can buy a new car and upgrade your loft. Otherwise your arguments are childish and based in ideological ignorance.
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Well said blah.
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@Arnald
Let me get this straight. You are linking shortcomings of the Big 4 in places like India and the US with offshore. Where is the evidence of shortcomings of the Big 4 offshore?
You seem well capable of creating an argument even if you were on your own on a desert island. Very boring. And insults will get you absolutely nowhere but that seems to be your trait. Isn’t it called “trolling”?
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Ah Enigma – so it is the minority that you seem to be bitter about but to be fair there are many people driving round in £50k sports cars or Chelsea Tractors that work in industries other than finance that look down their noses at us little people.
At the end of the day though, you alone are responsible for giving yourself the opportunity to get qualifications (in whatever) to give yourself the best chance to do the best that you can for yourself.
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Arnald
I see you moan and moan and critiscice guernsey’s financial sector whenever a story like this comes up, so, tell us all.
What would you propse to do to rid the island of this “cancer”, and what would you replace it with??
Genuinely interested….
you come accross as being extremely knowledgable about the alleged pervasive corruption that exists, so what amazing technique have you got to weed out the ner-do-well,and replace with “above board” pofit making honest days work style ventures.
Because if you came up with a solution as eloquently as you moan and moan about the problem, you could become a very influential man, instead of the bloke in the flat cap in the corner of the pub ranting to anyone who’ll listen.
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It always seems odd to me that so many Guerns hate the finance sector. Since it is the finance sector that props our island up, perhaps we should be thankful? Let’s face it, aside from Specsavers and Moonpig(!) we have almost nothing to offer the world to bring money in.
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Bo, dear.
All around the world societies are being forced to accept drastic cuts to the funding of infrastructure and services; the very things that nurture the individuals that go on to become the needed movers and shakers to create the wealth that perpetuates the system.
These cuts are as a direct consequence of a massive failure in regulatory and industry wide systemic failures.
Who decided the framework for the environment that allowed these failures to be overlooked?
Why would they let that happen?
Surely, given the knowledge, it is up to the democratic process to choose the direction for any benefactor of the social infrastructure?
What you are implying is that “these people know best”. Very, very obviously “these people” have failed the majority.
The evidence of the failures offshore are staring you in the face. It is your ideological and self-gratifying blindness that prevent you understanding them.
Ormerman
I have never debated against the finance industry as a means to provide a decent economic environment. My argument is purely one of ethics, and the derisory abilities of those ‘in charge’ to deny that there are no issues of ethical deviance.
If our main economic driver was the making of weapons predominately used in the oppression of another nation state, or the production of recreational drugs that were legal in another nation state, or the delivery of torture equipment to dictatorial nation states, would you be standing in line to congratulate the businesses that run our island?
They may be extreme examples, but the arguments have to encompass the very global impact that the international finance centre – sitting pretty with its own legislations pushed through without States debates, an unquestioning public – which benefits the few without any long term care for Guernsey as an island.
Where is the evidence that our main industry is benefitting anyone apart from itself?
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Truthman
That may be so. But aren’t you being defeatist about it?
The question should be “where are the products of our ‘excellent’ education system and how are they ensuring the future properity of Guernsey?”
Is being employed by multinational parasites really a vision worthy of Guernsey’s stubborn identity?
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Eh + Arnald
Arnald great comment. So the wonderful Guernsey finance sector is aspiring to beat Cayman and Bermuda who I believe are not even on even the IMF/OECD ‘white list’ (I may be wrong, or they are Vauxhall Conference League countries on the list).
Eh. We are not a ‘secrecy jurisdiction’? Can I find out at the Greffe who owns a Guernsey registered company, or who is the beneficiary of a Guernsey trust?
Thought not.
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Arnald:
Not defeatist at all, in fact, in the context of this thread completely the opposite. I see the positive side of the finance sector thriving here in Guernsey.
Are you projecting on me here Arnald!? ;-)
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Arnald
My house is one piece of evidence.
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Worship Finance
I’d like to know who owns a UK and a US company. I’d also like to find out out who the beneficiaries of a UK and US trust are. Am I able to get this information from their equivalents of the Greffe?
Thought not.
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Worship Finance
I forgot to mention that both Bermuda and Cayman ARE on the OECD White List.
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Phil
Its even worse than that. Neither the UK nor the US even bothers to regulate its providers of trust and corporate services. You can buy companies off the shelf over there with no questions asked, and any Tom, Dick and Harry can provide administration services to companies and trusts without any regulation whatsoever. So, not only can you not find out who owns them/benefits from them, you can’t even find out who owns the companies who carry out their administration! Remarkable – and as key G7 member countries they are able to insist that our regulatory standards are up to scratch…we are decades ahead of them on the regulatory front.
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Worship Finance –
Yes you can find out who the Directors and Shareholders of a company are by ordering a copy of the latest Annual Validation for the company from the Guernsey Registry.
You cannot find out who the beneficiaries of a Trust are because there is no Trust Registry.
If you do enough digging, you can find out anything!
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FK
You’re not quite right there.
You can find out from the Companies Registry (no longer the Greffe) who the directors and REGISTERED shareholders are of a Guernsey company. However, you cannot find out who the BENEFICIAL owners are. That’s no different from the position in the UK of course.
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Actually FK and David I believe there is no longer a requirement to disclose shareholders at the new Registry – all an Annual Valudation now shows is the amount of shares issued not to whom.
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I wonder how many times he voted for himself in the poll, or encouraged others to.
David – There’s no licensing in UK like we have, but firms operate under self-regulation via professional bodies. HMRC regulates trust and company service provision business in UK on a fallback basis where no other professional body has oversight – or at least is supposed to for ML prevention.
When all is said and done, any Tom Dick or Harry could set up here, provided GFSC like them, or rather didn’t particularly dislike them. HMRC has imposed rules relating to disclosure of tax avoidance schemes and products, a fact not lost on many of us offshore that have UK clients.
As to being ahead of UK on regulation – you are having a laugh!! UK adopted Risk based AML years before us, and while FSC were still imposing “one size” on us. Now we’ve had to change to the UK risk assessed approach. Most of GFSC were UK expats, and weren’t always the cream. Getting it wrong is expensive for the industry and its clients. NY and London still largely call all the shots. EUSD was imposed. We are an ant attempting to pass ourselves off as an elephant. In order so to do (and to swank about generally) GFSC have contracted for some of the most expensive offices in the island and expect us to pay for it through 25% fee increases and withdrawal of funding for the Training Agency. Gold-plated pensions too, I’ll wager, and no transparency in their accounts. Expensive regulation isn’t necessarily good or effective, it just glosses over its own shortcomings. Landsbanki. Split Caps. Jobs for the boys.
WW – quite right.
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FK: You are correct, you can find out who the shareholders and directors of a Guernsey registered company. But you clearly know very little about finance;
The directors and shareholders do not own the company… the beneficial owner does. To prove we are a ‘transparent jurisdiction’ why isn’t the owner a matter of public record?
And to show how transparent (sic) Guernsey is, why isn’t the finance sector pushing for a public record naming the beneficiaries of trusts as well? This will demonstrate what a forward thinking jurisdiction we are!
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On the one hand, this is good news as it implies the continuing success of our major industry, an industry that employs many and thus fills our coffers with income tax receipts and helps fuel the wider (real) economy.
On the other hand, this is just another non-story for most ordinary people, including those “normal” working people who do work in that sector. The reality is that the “success” of the finance industry is fuelling growing inequality in Guernsey. There is now a growing body of evidence to suggest that societies with greater inequality end up with more social problems; i.e. more crime, more family breakdown, greater mental illness etc. I fear that if you allow the relatively small number of “masters of the (local) universe” to continue to prosper uncontrollably, with their bonuses and their vast salaries, in the longer term, that will lead to more and more inequality; and thus more and more social problems. There already is a growing chasm between the merely “rich” and the super rich developing, let alone the gap between the super-rich and everybody else. This is something that is only very rarely talked about in Guernsey; but I fear it will eventually damage social cohesion to a great extent.The local politicians are totally blind to this and are stoking up their own funeral pyre but standing idly by while the fat cats get fatter and shoot away, far ahead of average families.
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Worship Finance
There’s a huge difference between being “transparent” and freely giving out information of a nature which is nobody else’s business. To make more information available than is necessary would be commercial suicide for any jurisdiction. We’d be finished. And before you jump on that statement, no its NOT because clients are up to no good. Its because they would be able to go to dozens of other jurisdictions where their details remain private to the prying public eye.
And if the UK and USA are so “transparent”, why aren’t they leading the way with such information being on their public records, open to any prying Tom, Dick or Harry?
Bob
UK trustees only operate under guidance from professional bodies if the trustee happens to be associated to people who are members of professional bodies. However it is not a requirement that somebody acting as a trustee in the UK is a member of any professional body. As such, it is a completely unregulated industry. Locally, anybody wanting to act as a fiduciary must be approved by the GFSC. Have you tried to get a fiduciary licence recently? Compare it with setting yourself up as a trustee in the UK!
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Guernsey should be careful not to get too excited about joining the top five. As Liverpool have found out with the so called “big four” things can turn sour pretty quickly.
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Worship Finance
Are you able to confirm that the likes of the US and UK allow public access as to who the beneficial owners of companies are? Or beneficiaries of trusts?
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David – anybody? We don’t need a licence for up to a certain number of cases here. (although moves are afoot to do away with the exemptions). No need to be a member of a professional body here either.
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Bob
Not sure what your question is but in comment to your posting I think an individual can hold up to 6 trusteeships without needing a fiduciary licence. Hardly enough to make a living or form a business. A Guernsey company is not able to be Incorporated with the power to charge for acting as a trustee without the approval of the GFSC. Before the GFSC will grant a licence to an individual or a company they will undertake a “fit and proper” assessment, of which holding a relevant professional qualification (on the directors and beneficial owners in the company’s case) will form a significant element.
One would not need to go through any such process to act as a remunerated trustee in the UK, and would not need to hold a professional qualification under current law.
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