Papal pilgrims return
Monday 20th September 2010, 2:29PM BST.
Blanchelande pupils, from the left, Elizabeth Mills, Chantelle Fallaize, Lucy Hoyow, Grace Le Bachelet, Erin Scullion and Sydney Henley-Roussel, return from a papal pilgrimage that took in Saturday’s Mass at Westminster Cathedral and a prayer vigil in Hyde Park. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1030387)
PILGRIMS from Guernsey schools visited the UK for Pope Benedict XVI’s first official visit.
They included six pupils from Blanchelande who attended Saturday’s Mass at Westminster Cathedral and a prayer vigil in Hyde Park later in the day.
Grace Le Bachelet, 15, said the atmosphere had been emotional and spiritual.
‘I thought it was an amazing experience and there were just so many people,’ she said.
Lucy Hoyow, 14, agreed. ‘It was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and we may never get to see the Pope again,’ she said.
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I wish I could echoe Miss Hoyow;s sentiment and say “We may never see the Pope again” …what a total waste of space and time he and his Medieval
entrouage have been….
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Heggarty: your comment on this page is a waste of space and time.
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……only because it refers to Popeye the Pope.
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Contributers to this, and other forums on this topic may be interested in the programme “The End of God? A Horizon Guide to Science and Religion” – it’s on at 9pm tonight on BBC4.
No idea how good it will be but may be worth watching….
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And all because the Christian Faith goes against the grain of secularity and the culture of death.
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Hi Paul..will give it a go, but I feel the agenda of the presenter/author of the programme will colour the issue. As my old mate Vic Gamble always says, you cannot ask a Christian to watch a Richard Dawkins program because already the defence line has been drawn and sometimes the heckles are so high, you cannot see the flesh for the hair…he doesn’t say that daily, I might add.
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Heggarty – I would add to my old mate Vic Gamble’s comment by saying that you can’t ask Richard Dawkins to watch a Christian programme for pretty much the same reason! I watched his series on Darwin by the way – mainly out of curiosity about the man himself as, although I’d read some of his articles and quotations, I had never actually heard him speak.
Your point on an agenda is a fair one, it all depends on what agenda the presenter has though. Judging by the preamble it sounds like it will be a pretty liberal agenda of “let’s not offend anyone” which will most likely end up doing totally the opposite!
I am generally a fan of the BBC but they don’t seem to like to upset anyone – apart from Alex Ferguson of course. Trouble is, as yours truly likes to say “if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody.” Still, the guy who is doing it is a historian so I hope he won’t have too big an axe to grind either way but will stick to the facts. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt though, but perhaps we’ll both reconvene tomorrow and both agree that is was all a load of wishy washy claptrap! :-)
Oh btw, if the Pope is Popeye, won’t Olive Oyl be upset now that he’s not allowed to get married? Perhaps she’s have to settle for Brutus after all? ;-)
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Paul Le Page – as a matter of fact, Richard Dawkins would willingly sit down to watch a programme on Christianity, although I don’t know you, I think that he has probably read more of the bible than you have. If you were to read something of his, (most accessible and relevant in this instance is probably “The God Delusion”), you would know this. As a scientist, he will listen to all and any argument on the matter.
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Eh
You clearly didn’t detect the slightly humorous tone inferred by my post. I’m aware that Prof Dawkins has engaged in some debates with notable Christian intellectuals.
As for your comment about my reading pattern, as a man who clearly values the disciplines of science I’m surprised you are so quick to comment without first doing some research!
In the interest of good scientific practice though I’m happy to provide evidence to disprove your hypothesis though.
As I have read the entire Bible systematically from start to finish (including the exciting parts like geneologies) I think that highly unlikely. As a man with a slightly cynical disposition I’m not content to simply be told what to believe – I like to find out for myself.
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Paul Le Page – as my post clearly stated “……. I don’t know you, I think that he has probably read more of the bible than you have.” note the use of the words “don’t know you” and “probably”. I was not making a statement of fact, merely an assumption based on the christians that I know personally. My apologies.
So, clarify for me please, you have read the entire bible and define yourself as a christian, so can you tell me how much of the bible you believe to be fact and how much is fiction?
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Eh
I have listend to much of dawkins, but he goes too far in his assumptions and he himself has a faith, its the one where he doesnt know how life begun but he knows it wasent created.
Given the chance of life coming from none living matter and with so many scientists trying to solve the mystery and getting nowhere i just wonder what makes you such a firm believer? Has Dawkins convinced you?
I`d rather keep an open mind then be brainwashed, untill there is prove which i doubt we will ever get.
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That’s OK Eh, I was being a bit of a WUM myself as you sound to me like the kind of bloke who doesn’t take undue offence at a bit of light hearted banter in the midst of a healthy debate. :)
As for your question I consider the Bible to be entirely factual. It’s worth taking the time to define exactly what that means though so if you’re interested to know more look at the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy here:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/history/chicago.stm.txt
Of particular interest is part III subsection C
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1. Heggarty. You must stop having a poke at the Pope. After all he is only human and it is not his fault he was a member of the Nazi Youth movement,nor is it his fault that he may have been embroiled in aiding concealment of wayward priests who only wanted to have the odd choir boy in the glorification of God. As for his great understanding on how to assist in the control of the AIDS epidemic…
2. Paul Le P. Watched the BBC 4 program, as you suggested. A wee bit bland and unchallenging didn’t you think. The presenter was obviously not out to raise any heckles. Did enjoy the God Helmet though. Dawkins saying he felt no godly presence prompted my wife to say that if I had worn the God Helmet and felt a presence I would probably have denied it…nonsense I said…I’d be straight out to get a Harley Davison, a leather jacket,studded in brass with the words The Gamble God Squad and would ride over every dale and vale proclaiming the scriptures.Hey! you could be on the pillion!
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Vic – Sign me up for the Gamble God Squad – I’ll even buy a God Helmet of my own and pay the fuel costs for the Harley.
Like you I did find the God Helmet bit quite amusing, particularly when they tried it on Richard Dawkins. I half expected a Damascus Road experience and the emergence of the Apostle Richard but was sadly disappointed. I’ve actually come up with a theory of my own – I wonder whether the amount of power required to induce a religious experience is directly proportional to the amount of unbelief in the subject? Worth testing don’t you think? Trouble is I suspect they’d have to fry poor Professor Dawkins before getting him to sing Hallelujah and wave a tambourine around!
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Oh dear
Another descent into bickering and personality pick offs.
I suspect that you probably think you are grown up people, you do not come across as such.
These young people had a huge experience, in their eyes; they are entitled to their points of view. They must be laughing out loud at your immature input.
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Stiletto….which bit did you find immature…the truth bits, or two people discussing a valid BBC4 television program? Pray tell.
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Paul…surely you mean disbelief, as opposed to unbelief…so OK send over the rquisite cheque for the Harley and I’ll alert you when my mission hits Guernsey.Cheque to be made payable to God & Son & Gamble.
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Stiletto, stop being such a misery.
The topic of religion is always highly emotive and generates a lot of interest – especially true at this time given the recent Papal visit.
Having read through everyone’s comments above, yes some of the comments are a little childish but frankly I think it’s a breath of fresh air that we can engage in a little light-hearted banter and some civilised discussion.
Better that then some of the vitriol that flies around from both sides and absolutely better than in certain other nations where Vic would be stoned for daring to suggest the absence of a deity and I’d be strung up for praying to Jesus.
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Vic
I’m interested to know why you are having a conversation with yourself.
You and Heggerty are the same person, so I find that little convo between your 2 seperate personalities fascinating, if a little disturbing.
Stiletto
Which bits are bickering pray tell??
Paul L P and Eh had a small tete a tete, but they solved it amicably, you could even say like grown ups.
As for the story itself, well they rope em in young!
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Well spotted Dave…hardly rocket science when the little sky blue squares are identical…I think you will find there is no conflict with the attitudes taken by either name …and please do not be disturbed,I can assure you I have a perfectly normal split personality.
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@ Paul le Page
Misery Guts? I am not. It would have been good to see on this thread, some positive points of view put forward for these young people, like, views on how they felt; I am an agnostic, but that does not mean that I am without beliefs.
I would far rather hear about them than,during when I posted my original comment, was told that Google’s cars had been badly damaged by what I assume is a real immature level of society.
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Stiletto….being an agnostic does not mean you are not without beliefs…it means you are not sure what to believe in and in such a state can I respectfully suggest you sit firmly on a fenced off fence….thus your confusion about this particular thread.
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