UK minister keen for island to have more responsibility
Saturday 25th September 2010, 2:29PM BST.
Guernsey Press reporter Jess Stevenson interviews Lord McNally at Frossard House. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1032425)
GUERNSEY will be given more freedom on the international stage by the new coalition government.
Minister of State at the Ministry of Justice Lord McNally gave the message at the end of his first two-day visit to the Bailiwick.
His role gives him responsibility for the Crown Dependencies.
Asked whether Guernsey should be given more power to sign off on international agreements he said there would be risks involved.
‘If you go it alone completely – it’s a big cold world out there.’
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Well all i can say is heaven help us if the last two years have been anything to go by. This Island is excellent when it comes to giving things away like TIEA’s and socialising internationally, because that’s easy,anyone can do it, but its totally useless when it has something it has to actually negotiate on to gain advantage for the island or its population.
Just look how the UK treasury conned the Chief Minister over representation in Iceland.
Just look how the FSA conned the GFSC with ambigious statements, which of course the GFSC read the wrong way, to the detriment of the Landsbanki Guernsey Depositors.
Negiotiations abroad have so far only succeeded where both parties have wanted the same conclusion.
Look at 0/10 and the new tax review, there is no doubt that it is needed, 0/10 was a failure, but here we jumping through hoops because a few europeans mumbled that it was not compliant.
Heaven knows where we will end up if we have to really argue the toss over anything really serious.
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Very good of him allowing us more responsibility with our own affairs. What ever happened to us being independent & answering only to our elected?
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What an insult: the nerve of it.
If we had been a bigger place we would soon put that UK in it’s proper place.
We don’t want more freedom- which incidentally UK goes to war over such.
But the UK never practices what it preaches-
The only answer we want is for the UK to relinquish the chains that bound us to them by their false king John.
Centuries have passed and you cling to us like glue to paper. we want to make our own way in the world.
Let our schools teach our history not the UK.s history. ours is more real, not embroidered like others.
Elisabeth the 1st. was the only Monarch from the UK who came close to releasing us from bondage- then came that detestable Charles. he got his deserts.
We now want and should demand complete freedom from the domination of the UK.
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We are not independent Paul.
The island is a Crown Dependency answerable to
the monarch and the Privy Council.
I`m all for putting on a warm coat and muffler and
going totally independent
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I’m sure a similar message was given to the fledgling American Colonies in 1776. They seemed to have managed OK!
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Islander:
You talk as if you remember all of those events! I guess your memory of them has been tainted over time however since your recollection is rather inaccurate!
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Truth man can you be more explicit with your accusation.
In what way Have I tainted my memory?
So please if you can point out how my recollection is inaccurate;
I’m always willing to learn- providing the teacher also knows what he/she is talking about.
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Islander:
I distinctly remember sitting watching a jolly good jousting competition one day with King John, when he said how much he appreciated Guernsey siding with him instead of Phillipe (I think this was in 1204ish). In fact, he was so thankful that in return he gave us a freedom from rule by England that had not been seen since long before we were ruled by the previous line of the Dukes of Normandie (this is why we now have our local Government and the Privy Council instead of being ruled absolutely by the Government of England).
I remember it like it was yesterday, specifically because of the look on John’s face when he found out how ungracefully Guernsey had taken the gesture, and how poorly the residents remembered what he really did!
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Oh dear Truth Man,
Once again you recite(I say that carefully) for that is what you do.
Obviously you are either UK citizen, or a hanger on.
How do you think Normandie (correct spelling) became such.
As usual The UK in you forbids the telling of 1066 and how you learnt to behave,
However the UK, mostly the Anglo-Saxon side always falls in the pit and comes out smelling of violets.
So they invented Robin Hood.
What you also fail to mention the real reason for the 1066 affair– look it up. (other than the English version)
The UK really amuses me; they with all pomp and ceremony speak loudly about the Runnymede affair.
Whereby all power was taken from the Ruling monarch-Yet a few years later you have Henry V111, and his swash buckling ways- and after that the sacred paper lost all meaning.
Charles of course got his just deserts; he tried his tricks on our Island, he never knew how we could and did retaliate.
There will always be the likes of me to write until the Island is free of the yoke imposed on us.
As for that rather silly joke about how gratyeful he was, It was the money people and land owners who voted to side with England.
The ordinary people had no vote.
Just another of those little tricks of the Anglo-Saxons, We learnt more from your cousins during the sojourn in our Island.
Just one of the many faults with the Anglo-Saxons, they fight wars with the cream of the young for things they do themselves.
I’ll stop now, digest that; if you want more I’ve plenty. haven’t touched the colonies yet- anyway, it’s your history, you made it- yet mostly wrote it.
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Islander:
I love you post! Like a poet with a bee in his bonnet!
Anyway, here ye go…
We all recite regarding history, since we have all had to learn about the topic from other sources (I think we can both now admit we weren’t really around back in 1204)!
But that does not explain why you ask how Normandie came about, or why you seem to think the English do not talk about 1066. Your notion is far from the truth in fact; 1066, the invasion by William and the defeat of Harold is within the curriculum taught in the UK. The difference is that in the UK, those who are interested in history dating back that far are not bitter about it – they enjoy the colourful past and celebrate it! So that brings me to my question to you… why, oh why, do you feel so bitter about events that happened back in 1204? To add to which, have you ever considered that your ascendants may well have been amongst the 90% of Guernsey islanders who supported the crown when the opportunity to align with Normandie arose? Enjoy your history man, stop letting it beat you up!
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Truth Man:
Ah if only you lived up to your “name”
But of course it’s beyond you So called English to ever think you did wrong,.
As for it beating me up, silly remark really- but then when you do not have the answer you hope, as your nation did_ brow-beat them into submission. Tut tut.
As for your remark about 90% how silly of you, in those far off days even in England serfs and the like had no vote- they were deemed not intelligent enough to vote. As those nobles of England said after stealing vast tracks of England. “They don’t know what is right or wrong”
Actually what the meant if you must vote vote our way or you can lose everything.
However that’s your concern; my concern as the rest of many Islanders is take those shackles from us and get out of out Island.
You have become (to many of us)Persona no grata
Of course you tell the history of 1066, but do you tell them the real reason for such happenings.
Anyway suit yourself; I still say we should be freed from English domination.
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Islander:
I am just going to follow up (again) on your specific point “The only answer we want is for the UK to relinquish the chains that bound us to them by their false king John.”
Why do you feel that King John bound Guernsey to England? It was the successful invasion of England in 1066 by Our Duke that bound us to England, and further, the decision BY GUERNSEY to remain aligned to England in 1204.
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Oh dear not another history lesson :(((
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Islander:
I’m trying to remember the name you used to post under – remind me, what was it?!
You tell me that I am wrong, but you do not tell me how. Please, give me your version of the history rather than the waffle you’ve been resorting to!
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Islander:
Answer me this also…
If, in 1204, Guernsey had decided to side with Phillipe, would you feel so bitter? In other words, is it the English you hate or simply the fact that Guernsey is not 100% independent?
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Whilst the comment thread appears to be slightly off topic, there are some historical facts that need to be cleared up.
The point about the 1204 Commise is that Philippe-August, the king of France, took mainland Normandy by force from John (King of England and Duke of Normandy) because John, as duke of Normandy, refused to pay hommage to him outside of his territory and so P-A considered that John had committed treason in the eyes of French law. P-A basically forgot about the Channel Islands (les iles-normands) when he did this and it was only John’s quick thinking that led to his promises to the Islands to preserve their rights and their own rule of law as long as the Islanders remained loyal to him (which was now the English crown but had been the duchy of Normandy) – the Islanders agreed to that, primarily because John promised not to subject the Islanders to English taxes or court process, which is exactly what the French would have done because P-A wanted to absorb the Islands into France in 1206. It was only the Treaty of Paris in 1254 which formalised these matters. Elizabeth I’s charter in 1560 really only reiterated what John had said some 350 years before, as it promised Guernsey its freedom from English taxes and court processes as long as the Island continued to respect the Crown’s sovereignty.
Islander – I can see that you are very proud and fortunate to be Guernsey born and bred, which is great, but your ancestors just over 800 years ago probably made the right choice for their Island. If you were in their shoes, what would you choose: an island which is only dependant on the UK for complex and costly matters such as defence and international relations, or an absorbtion into metropolitan France, most probably within the Manche departement of the Basse-Normandie region?
I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Please go it alone. I really could not give a monkey’s about how Guernsey does. Just stop hoarding UK tax evaders and we will call it quits.
And please don’t come crawling to us when you get ignored on the international stage or get swallowed up by the EU.
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My goodness;
one comes along with all that twaddle about how Philippe of France did the dirty by claiming part of France from the English
Well I never; by what right had England the right to claim part of France; Did not England reject all claims by the Normans and continually for over 200years did all in their power to be-little The Normans,
So to use the Normans in a strife that will always be brought up_: one should remember that England was also ‘Occupied’ by the Saxons on a promise to beat off the Scots,
But bsb is right; more history; I wonder if the use of a certain word as used in nearly every sentence by the BBC; will also go down in history.
History Teacher;
It would take too long to explain Islanders love of their Island; we have lived through all kinds of upheaval, from the French, The English (as they call themselves) and the Germans; Incidentally occupied by the goodwill of their cousins.
As for You History Teacher it would be interesting to hear your nationality.
Yes I love my Island, and it’s people, our ways are not the other Lott’s ways, we do not prowl on other lands to build empires on the backs of the indigenous people- and then treat them as almost slaves. although Bristol comes into that Picture.
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Nick Scott – UK
And i dont care if you give a monkeys or not so there.
The only crawling we do is late at night on the weekend :)
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Islander:
Please, please remind me what name you used to post under! I remember your inaccurate historical ramblings from some time ago – and I thought you’d paled in to history yourself until here you come chatting to us all under a different pseudonym!
You have all of your base line facts wrong and your passion is confusing you. You seem bitter about Guernsey’s choice made so long ago, and you seem to blame modern day England for that choice.
You fail to answer my questions, or those posed by History Teacher.
You claim that King John shackled Guernsey to England, but he did not.
You claim that the English are forbidden to mention 1066, yet when I point out that quite the opposite is true you reply with “Of course you tell the history of 1066, but do you tell them the real reason for such happenings.”
You seem to think Robin Hood was created to fill a fantastical void in English history (it’s just a story you know).
You say things like “Just one of the many faults with the Anglo-Saxons, they fight wars with the cream of the young for things they do themselves.” – what is the relevance?!
But overall, for me, I have to ask why on earth you love Guernsey so much? It is a small, insignificant and rather boring pile of earth in the English Channel. We speak English, we use the pound, we rely on England for rule of law. Let’s be honest, they might as well fill the channel in and make us a suburb of Plymouth. ;-)
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‘Yes I love my Island, and it’s people, our ways are not the other Lott’s ways, we do not prowl on other lands to build empires on the backs of the indigenous people- and then treat them as almost slaves. although Bristol comes into that Picture.’
Oh please get me the fiddle. I’m sure there were plenty of people from Guernsey who actively took the opportunities the British empire provided and did just that, took advantage of indigenous people. Your history is not separate from that of Britain, in fact may I suggest it is intertwined and Guernsey benefited largely from the wealth the empire brought and many of its children were an active part of empire building.
Anyway had you chosen France, I’m sure plenty of islanders would have done the same, taking advantage of indigenous people to benefit the French empire.
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Islander, I am English but live and work in Guernsey and am proud to call it my home. Presumably given the theme of your posts, you would have me incarcerated in Les Nicolles and deported back to the United Kingdom at the earliest opportunity.
In answer to your question, England did not “claim” part of France and nor did the King of France “claim” part of France from the English. The territory in question was Normandy, a duchy separate from France before 1204 and never united with England at all. Because of William the Conqueror, the dukes of Normandy were also (in another capacity) kings of England. Normandy was not English territory, it was just ruled over by the King of England in his capacity as duke of Normandy. The Channel Islands were part of the duchy of Normandy and therefore in the domain of King John in his capacity as duke of Normandy. As P-A did not conquer the Islands, but only mainland Normandy, John recognised that the Islands were of strategic importance and asked the islanders if they would swear alliegence to him which they did.
The reality of the situation is that things have moved on a lot since then and since the 1973 Kilbrandon report. The UK now regards Guernsey (and Jersey for that matter) as being able to govern itself domestically without interference from the UK. The Royal sanction procedure is in place as a convention and it has only been actively used recently to block legislation on human rights grounds (e.g. the proposed reforms to the government of Sark in 2008 that were not ECHR compliant). If the UK were to abandon us entirely, you would find that Guernsey has to pay for its own defence, its own diplomatic missions all around the world and it would probably have to have a second legislative chamber to act as the check and balance that the Crown currently provides to our domestic legislation. These cost significant amounts and the “Black Hole” will just get deeper unless we are all taxed at EU rates of 40 to 50%. Presumably you might like that, Islander, because then all the nasty English people will go back to where they came from, but it will be a disaster for the island, both economically and politically. And yes, I agree with Truth Man that Guernsey is now inextricably linked to the UK, by using a currency tied to Sterling, by having English as its official language, by copying and using many UK laws and jurisprudence and, of course, culturally through media and tourism.
My advice, Islander, is to enjoy Guernsey for what it is – a great place to live – and stop griping about “independence” because it will never ever happen.
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You all sound like kids fighting over who gets the biggest piece of cake. Grow up eh!
I’ve got one thing to say to those who dislike Guernsey: go back to wherever you came from and leave us be! We don’t try to change you so stop trying to change us.
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This land is my home and you all talk about it as if it was just a piece of trash. It may not be all that great or have much to offer to the ignorant outsider but us humble Guernseyfolk, who live only to help our fellow Islander and to never live too far beyond our means, are proud of this tiny corner of the world and freely welcome all those who are willing to embrace our way of life and accept us for who we are. Guernsey is a beautiful, wonderful place and I would lay down my life protecting her from those who would only wish harm on her and her people. Sarnia chiere patris, bijou d’la mair.
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To those who ridicule my hopes and thoughts of my Island; show exactly what I am getting at.
You who occupy our Island with your laws and whatever else, show exactly what you are.
Bullies come to mind.
I am a free man since your cousins left; and by golly I don’t give a monkeys what you say and think.
My wish and I expect many of my fellow Islanders wish the same:
Not only leave our Island, but go back to your own SAXONY.
(Incidentally, I do have good reason for my dislike of the ruling English; and I suspect many of the English people have the same.)
So come on with your rather stupid remarks, it will not alter things.
You are occupiers, and according to the Rules and laws of the world that is unlawful.
If you have sensible things to say then say it;
But your little innuendos are a cowards way of trying to be smart.
try to think(if you can, have the will to so do) of what you have done through out the world, (It ain’t pretty reading) if you are honest.
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Islander, aka Eric, aka William Audoire(?).
Serial ranter, please do not encourage.
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Islander what are you rambling on about? You are making no sense.
I’m Guernsey born and bred and go back at least 4 generations of Guernsey folk and I don’t follow your views. However, I have had the good fortune to live outside of Guernsey for a few years and travel the world, which I dare say, cannot be said of you.
Stop trying to make this an issue about Norman-Anglo/Saxon relations as it’s clear to me you haven’t got the faintest clue of how things are historically. Or were you there in 1066? Or in the 13th century? What about if we go back further?
The sad truth is Guernsey cannot go it alone. It would ruin Guernsey financially then we would be back in the ‘good ole days’ however would still then lack a voice as we’ve used all the money, ruined the finance and commercial sectors, made everyone move away and sit here like ducks until someone comes over and claims us. I don’t think it’ll be much of a fight. Maybe you islander with a trowel in your hand…
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Oh…my …god….seriously, what IS all this blather and point scoring about about what happened a squillion years ago, who’s right, and how relevant it is to our relationship with the UK now…..
why not go back to when whatever it is we’ve supposedly evolved from was crawling out of the primordial mud, and see if there was any political discord between the UK pond dwellers and their CI counterparts, whilst we’re at it….?
The UK government of NOW has thoroughly balls-ed up the UK, the Guernsey States of NOW is thoroughly balls-ing up our island, and quite frankly, the politically incorrect Tetley tea monkeys could make a better job of it. Period.
PS. and for the record. I’m an alien. From Mars. and MY ancestors are the ones who encouraged the original Guernsey pond dwellers to crawl out and start evolving, so that, of course, makes me waaaay more entitled to an opinion.
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Dot Comma:
Yes! Thank you!! Eric. I couldn’t recall what name ‘Islander’ used to use. Personally, I’m glad to see him back, I’ve missed his waffle!
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Caw lumme days!
This yer blog is better than all the funnies in the dailies.
You see there are those who ‘AKA’ here and there, for what reason, is like his note quite absurd,
Then we have Dave; well my goodness Dave surely you can’t mean what you write IE; Islander can’t have had the same travelling as my self (With chest well extended) what a stupid remark.
Then all those who say they rely on them for defence- ho ho ho: We remember that defence.
We remember how they took Fort George, and we paid for it’s upkeep and it’s garrison.
After the war. they had the cheek to sell us back our own land- and a States daft enough to pay.
They never stopped asking for money- like blood suckers they almost drained our resources.
Going back to Dave the widely travelled man, with his innuendo of not being there in 1066. I suppose desperation needs desperate, although stupid remarks.
By what he writes and undoubtedly believes is that England had the right to confiscate certain lands; and other lands conquered by the sword should be silent hmm. Like the Scots, the Irish, Welsh.
You all try to make me seem a fool,sometimes fools do indeed speak out.
Well sit down and read some history. Then see if all you read has been so forthright, as you would wish I should believe.
Thank you, I’m also a doubting Thomas and since the war my thoughts have altered drastically. for it was then that the history began to really unfold.
Anyway I don’t give a hoot in what you think, nothing can change my thoughts about the ruling English.
The ordinary English person is like all of us Subdued by lies and propaganda.
So carry on; it doesn’t affect me one way or another.
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Scarlett!
Mars eh! just love them sweet and sugary, loves to be cuddled and are putty in the hands of the true lover.
You lucky old you you are:
So:
May you never forget what is worth remembering-nor ever remember what is best forgotten.
and in so doing.
May you live as long as you want, and never want as long as you live
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Islander: I’m with you all the way. Good work, at least one of us has the balls to stand up and speak out against the bully tactics of the UK. Though don’t bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind. This said, we managed fine during the occupation. Where was our so called ‘defence’ then eh.
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Seems we’re being ‘occupied’ all over again, don’t you think? We had more liberties and freedom under Nazi rule!
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Eric:
Don’t you realise that none of the history you are so bitter about should be able to drive such negative emotion?
Do the English hate Italians because of the Romans invasion and that bloke who built a flippin great wall right through the middle of the country? Nope.
Do Americans hate the English because once upon a time they were taxed but not represented? Nope.
All of it happened too long ago to matter now.
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Well Truth Man.
If you say it happened a long time ago then that makes it alright eh!
Is that what you really mean?
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Sarnian Lad:
I deduce, from your utter tripe, that you were not around during the occupation, or the events that led up to it. Worse, you comment without knowing the truth.
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Well said Dave and Scarlett. This whole thread has become surreal.
Who (apart from Islander) gives a flying fig about what happened aeons ago? Let bygones be bygones and let’s all move on now shall we?
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Sarnian Lad
I wish you wouldnt use the word “we” as you sure dont speak for the majority, and if you think you do then you are just as deluded as eric the islander.
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You Know!
I too have a good laugh at most replies on this blog,
I am constantly told to cool it.
Now isn’t that rather strange, when most of the replies are boiling and bubbling in a strangulation of words all tryin to sound important.,
I must say DO have a good laugh,
“Carry on Bloggers”
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Truth Man!
Rather strange question you asked-
“Do the English hate the Italians for what the Romans did”
That to my way of thinking is a typicl English reply
What if you turned it to a correct way of thinking and asked.
Do the Italians , like many other nations feel how arrogant the English are with such answers as you give.
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Truth Man!
‘Rather strange question you asked-
“Do the English hate the Italians for what the Romans did”
That to my way of thinking is a typicl English reply’
Nope, it sounds more like a typical response from you. Can’t you just move to Alderney or something, you are an embarrassment to Guernsey.
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Ben:
I think your last post was aimed at Islander or am I misreading?
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No no Ben,
That’s their way of sweeping under the carpet, not our way,
He’s harmless and anyway we all have the right to speak out.
That we don’t agree is good, if we all agreed with each other. Then spice would be taken out of life.
I prefer the enemy I know, than those lurking in the shadows.
And Truth Man; Yes I was there, albeit quite a bit removed from society, didn’t like those rulers either.
Anyway my old son you carry on, it’s your right to speak out: of course you can’t agree with me-perhaps circumstances judged otherwise twixt thee an me.
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Islander:
Try answering these questions without all the waffle:
1. Do the English hate the Italians for what the Romans did?
2. Do Americans hate the English because once upon a time they were taxed but not represented?
p.s. You should know – I am not English. I too am an islander, it’s just that I have a rather broader mind than you and I have no doubt, am much more well travelled.
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Dear oh dear have you run out of steam Truth Man?
why do you ask the same questions again?
However I’ll ask this.
Were the French pleased when Jeanne D’Arc was murdered, (Oh I know the French General sold her to the English)
Were the Africans pleased to have a free trip across the Atlantic.?
However these sort of Questions get us nowhere.
I only wish to point out to you how futile you sound when such words come from such a well travelled man.
However- “Laus in propio ore sordescit.” don’t bother to look it up, I’ll tell you- It means
“Praise in one’s own mouth is offensive,” or if you wish “Self praise is no recommendation”
En Passant; New York is boring, Europe is like anywhere, never been to Siberia only the other end.
So you must tell us about your more exotic travels. perhaps we passed —
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Truth man – it was aimed at islander and the fact he appears to be living in the 12th century
I’m more worried about the big monolith called the EU and its long term impact on the island than anything the UK might do. The UK is in decline but the EU is one scary beast.
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If I am in the 12Th then at least I am at the start of the take over of our Island.
However if it’s the EU that worries you, it proves my point. we are being dragged into something that is not our wish,
Therefore what I say must be right- or do you all agree with England, and in so doing be dragged into something most undesirable to our Island.
Your insults do not bother me; childish minds must be allowed to express themselves.
I had thought that more adult minds would manage to see around the corner; I was wrong, you’ve got a paper bag over your head- you cannot see the danger. So long as are able to say “I’m alright jack, pull up the ladder.”
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Islander:
It’s simple, I asked the same questions again because you didn’t answer them the first time.
Your question regarding Joan only goes to re-affirm my point – ask a French person how they feel about the event. Probably not a great deal, and those who do probably consider it to be a part of their colourful history. Thank you for pointing me to another past event to demonstrate how odd your attitude towards history is.
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Islander:
I would also be interested to hear why you refer to Africans crossing the Atlantic in this discussion.
In the context of our debate a more relevant question would be “Do Africans hate the Indians because of the slave trade of the 17th century?”
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The trouble, or scourge of your thinking Truth Man. is the fact you have got into a comfortable attitude, and as you wallow in it all, it makes you doze off to the issue.
You forget that future generations will ask –
“Whatever were they thinking of, allowing our heritage fall into alien ways.”
You say I live in the 12TH century- far from it I live, perhaps difficult for you to understand perhaps, yet I live in the future, a future that our future generation will inherit if nothing is done now.
You are smug in your ways, insult me at every turn. that shows me you are either cowards, and try to “Pass the buck”
You cannot see the danger of our Island losing forever it’s Identity. and to be substituted by another lot who already have lost touch with it’s people.
You take the easy way out, if any of you,(which mainly refers to the ruling body in Guernsey) had any gumption then a much larger amount of income: from the Island allowing a Tax haven.
After all if you have to have the Devil to a table let him pay dearly for the privilege. But you are all worried they would leave- where would they go? they are so deeply entrenched in the Island they’ll go nowhere, they know you are easy meat.
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I’m a little surprised that you should ask why I mention crossing the Atlantic,.
After all you were the one who started to ask silly questions !E; were the Italians angry because of The Romans and such inane subjects.
I refer therefor of the great crime of slavery.
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Eric:
I have not dozed off to the issue at all. I feel Guernsey needs to progress in many ways. You want to restore it, and then keep it as a museum. They are simply our personal opinions and preferences.
And by the way, I did not say you live in the 12th century.
Oh, and you still haven’t answered my questions.
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Eric:
I realise you were referring to the slave trade, but your point does little to support your feelings against England in light of your version of the history they share with us.
I doubt very much residents of Africa hate all of those countries who imposed the slave trade on them because of that fact, and much of that occurred a damned sight more recently than the things that seem to have rubbed you up the wrong way!
That is why I cannot see why you refer to the trip across the Atlantic – it is another historical event that further undermines the whole thrust of your point.
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I do believe you problem is that you are brain-washed.
You believe all they tell you-I don’t.
As for questions: incidentally you keep on about them:; How should I know how they feel.
The Italians had enough trouble getting rid of
El Duce.
The Americans laughed all the way to New Orleans, as they chased the British. But they couldn’t keep up with them.
However they no longer laugh, why should they they have England exactly where they want them, thanks to the likes of Blair and the atrocious Labour party.
As for “My version of History” as you put it, not mine but History books, as written by those who knew.
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