John, 76, will not flag in his campaign
Wednesday 29th September 2010, 11:30AM BST.
John Bourgaize with an example of the flag he thinks the island should use. He is increasing his campaign to get it adopted. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1033677)
GUERNSEY will lose its identity unless its flag is changed, according to a local campaigner.
John Bourgaize, 72, has been fighting for years to have the flag changed. He has now started taking out adverts in the Guernsey Press, writing letters to the Bailiff and approaching deputies.
‘The current flag is nothing to do with Guernsey,’ he said.
‘The St George’s Cross is English and we are not English. The gold cross is Norman and we are not French. Guernsey has its own identity and should have its own flag.’
He wants to fly a flag featuring the Bailiwick seal, of three lions, on a white-and-green background.
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The 3 lions is also an English symbol!
The flag now is simple, effective and everyone knows its Guernsey! we are between England and France and have been ruled/allied with both, makes sense to include a bit of both in our own flag as it shows the history
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I don’t like our current flag, it was always a bit ‘the big brown horse stood in the green field’ simplistic.
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I support Mr Bourgaize 100% and now have a lovely flag just like his. I also notice that more of the lovely green flags are being flown around the Island, which to me can only be a good thing.
For those that want one you can buy different sizes in the shop in the Arcade just after the Chemist.
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Cleary the current guernsey flag makes perfect sense – English Cross + French Cross = English French i.e Guernsey is partly French and we speak English. The flag pictured is the Nigerian flag with the addition of the seal thats pointless.
There is no need to change the guernsey flag its fine.
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Guernsey is part of what little remains of the Duchy of Normandy, so it is Norman and neither should we forget it.
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With you all the way Bougy.
I find the current flag offensive. Looks like a county flag.
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The seal of Guernsey actually contains three leopards, not Lions. Look on our bank notes and you will see just that. The three lions are English and we are most certainly NOT English! Our current flag is incorrect and merely represents our history, not our identity. The green and white flag with the seal of Guernsey in the centre is a fantastic design and represents Guernsey perfectly as an island separate to that of the United Kingdom and of the European Union. I would note, however, that the seal in the centre should really be the same as the one on our banknotes. It contains Guernsey’s native tongue as well as the three leopards – a perfect representation of the Island. It is true that The Queen is our head of state but people forget that She is the Duke of Normandy here, not ‘The Queen’. We are definitely losing our identity and will soon become just another county of England unless we preserve our heritage. I wasn’t taught anything of Guernsey’s history in school and this is such a shame. We should be proud of being the stubborn donkeys that we are!
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Mr B’s effort looks like a Guernsey Muratti shirt circa 1956. Well done for trying but let’s stick with the one we’ve got. At least it’s better than Jersey’s bland excuse for a national flag.
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couldnt agree more john,and good luck. but sadly guernseys identity is all but lost.
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@Chris H – “Our current flag is incorrect and merely represents our history, not our identity”
You gain identity through your history as that is what shapes you to be as you are.
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I completely agree with you @starcream
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Cor la, all this gives me a chuckle? What with big brown horses and green fields etc. Frankly, Scarlett, I love the current flag, the red cross emblazoned with a gold one, very classy. Outshines Jerseys by a country mile. And ‘Starscream’ is correct, the three lions are English, so that puts the kybosh on J Bourgaize’s idea for a flag, waste of time selling them really. The leopard idea has to belong to some dictator or whatever down in South America too – sure I’ve seen them on a national flag somewhere – so theres another idea down the tube. So how about one that’s never been used…the green and white yes, and in the centre a Guernsey donkey, Stone de Croze sitting on it, tomato in one hand, cucumber in the other? Perhaps there is an artist in the the community who could supply a rendering? ………Nah, still love the current flag, unbeatable for me. Classy. So hows about putting a stop on wasting time on what is already a superb flag for a wonderful island and instead concentrate on the airport and the extension with it’s increased noise and pollution that will take Guernsey closer to ruination?
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ChrisH if we are going to adopt a new flag, make it something that stands out, not just a crest on piece of cloth, or in Mr Bourgaize case our crest on the Nigerian. if you argue that the current flag is wrong with its links to England and Normandy, well at least there are historical links from which to draw. what are the links to Nigeria to use their flag.
The current flag represents our history, Teams representing the island have used it as part of their kit design and it stands out.
Finally where was Mr Bourgaize when the flag was first proposed and designs sort back in 1984/5, are you saying the Then Bailiff Graham Dorey got it wrong?
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Bella isn’t your comment contradictory, Guernsey Loosing its identity while supporting a campaign to get rid of its flag that draws on the islands history for its design, and replace it with the National flag of an african country with Guernsey’s coat of arms in the middle.
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Keep the present flag please. It is distintive and easily recognised. Sorry but I do not like the alternative that is proposed.
As for the cost of changing…
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er….
First rule of flag design – check what flags already exist : http://flagspot.net/flags/ng.html
second rule of flag design – read this
http://www.nava.org/Flag%20Design/GFBF/GFBF_Final_Web.pdf
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abolish all flags – pointless banners that serve only to support nationalism, division and conflict.
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I’ve got no problems at all with the current flag – it’s the Guernsey flag and is internationally recognised as such. I’ve waved it proudly at the Monaco Grand Prix and was happy to tell anyone who asks what it is!
Besides, like many islanders my identity is based on something slightly more secure than the colour of a piece of cloth.
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I think the current flag is fine – as Mr Harvey points out, it is the blend of English and French that makes us what we are. It doesn’t matter whether you put lions or leopards on a new flag, as the rest of the world will always associate it with ‘Three Lions on a shirt’ and therefore England. So Mr Bourgaize’s intention of trying not to be English will backfire.
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If we do change the flag because the states have nothing better to do, please don’t change it to this proposed design, its horrific.
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I agree with the people on here that dont want to change the current flag, may people will see the flag and know its Guernsey, esp at an Island or commonwealth Games.
That new design thats being proposed is horrid!!!
Why should be use the Nigeran Flag for Guernsey???
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The combination of the cross of St George and the cross of william sums up simply and neatly our herritage, the Guernsey conection to the English crown but our Norman roots clearly stamped on top!
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We are in total support for the flag to refer back to its original colours and this is how Guernsey should be promoted
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Most green backgrounds are either 3rd world or Muslim origin,and all though I like the idea of losing the cross of St George,or making it smaller,I wouldnt want all that darkish green on my flag.
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“John, 76, will not flag in his campaign” – that’s a shame.
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History shows that the cross in the middle of our current flag was given to William the Conqueror by the Holy Roman Pope of the time. It is not ours to use in my opinion.Whereas the proposed replacement uses three leo-pards which were given to the island, two by William himself and one by Henry the second which together over time became the Arms of Guernsey. Surely a much more appropriate centre for our flag.
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Sorry, but the flag concocted up by John is garbage. We may as well fly the Jersey flag !!!
I love our flag. Its the only one I know and the only one I want to know. Im of French decendancy but also consider myself English so the flag, in my eyes, is PERFECT !!!
Dont know if it was you I saw at this years Monaco GP Paul but I too was flying the flag and proud to do so !!
As ever, I had to the flag flying off the back of one of my Autocross cars at last weeks fun meeting as it looked good and I was PROUD to fly it !!
DON’T CHANGE !!
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His flag design in essence is Nigerian, why would we want to fly that?
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Lee.
Whats your problem? If you consider yourself English, you already have a flag, fly that.
I can’t say I find the green and white flag to be what I would choose but I would like to get rid of the one we have now.
I would have no objection to having a union flag somewhere on the flag, just not the English flag.
Why do some people have a problem with the flag of Nigeria but not the flag of England? We are equally not in either country.
What about redesigning the 19th C checkered flag by removing the St George cross element?
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Keep the Guernsey Green Flag the symbol of three lions have been used for centuties on bank notes, coins, leagal documents and Guernsey cans. The white flag looks to similar to the English flag you can not tell them apart when they are flying at sporting and festival events. The Green flag would show up and be recognised.
Keep the Green Flag.
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Hey if you don’t like the flag and want your own flag thats fine, as long as I can have mine too.
Tricolore with a crowned donkey, rampant.
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@Greg Gregson
The same old GG under a different name? given away by the usial playing of the race card, tut tut…grow up.
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Those comparing JB’s flag with Nigeria’s are right to do so. From afar the only difference is that is looks as if someone has placed a pizza or been sick in the middle of JB’s!
PS
Lots of pictures of the Nigerian flag on TV today as that country marks its 50 years of independence
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How is what I said racist? It was regarding the flag, why would we want to fly something that is so similar to Nigeria? Could be any country.
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Martino
I’m surprised at you. The current flag with a religious, nay, two religious symbols overlayed on each othher. A double God Stamp on Guernsey!!
You aren’t leading the secular charge?
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When people in the UK have seen the current Guernsey flag, they have often commented to me that we have just stuck a gold/yellow cross onto their English flag. My heritage is Norman on my father’s side and Breton on my mother’s side. I suggest that any new flag should predominantly refer to our Guernsey’s Norman heritage with a smaller reference to the English crown.
Bearing in mind that the Queen assumes the title of ‘Duke of Normandy’ when she steps on Guernsey soil, (and can legitimately be greeted with the words, “My Duke”), one wonders why we have to have any part of the English flag as part of ours!
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Flags should be simple in design.
Although our current one isn`t great to my eyes it is at least very distinctive.
The alternative is too fusy – I love the leopard crest but leave it for official documents etc.
Normandy have recently created a flag for themselves which includes the elements of their Norse roots with the gold cross – not perfect but works well and speaks a bit of history as does our present one.
If a change is desired why not reverse the emphasis and have a small red cross on a larger gold one!
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hah! listen to some of you scrapping over the design of a bit of old cloth! you prove my point -i said flags only serve as a focal point for (ultimately) division and conflict! silly people -burn all your flags and try dancing instead (this is my church).
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Leopards – NO
Just to set the story right, the 3 animals depicted on the Royal Seal given to the Bailiff of Guernsey and Jersey are Lions. William the Conqueror set out from Normandy with 2 and added one when he had conquered Britain. Why lions? The story is told that William, sat in the still standing Exchequer’s Hall in Caen was contemplating a ‘Corporate identity’ and some clever spark said “what you want is Abyssinian Lions.” An artist was engaged and the 2 lion flag, so often seen on Normandy yachts in the marina, was established. The confusion comes from the heraldic habit of signifying gold in black & white drawings by covering the area with small triangles.
One of the great advantages of the present flag is its simplicity – golden light shining through the historic red cross of St George. Makes for an easy-to-make flag that is identical from both sides and that everyone can afford. The addition of a shield has cost Jersey folk dear almost doubling the cost. Additionally, small versions of the flag cannot be easily ‘read’.
Sorry John Bourgaize, I cannot support your flag either.
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I’m no great fan of the current flag Neil, nor flags in general to be honest with you. People wrap themselves around flags far too easily. I just think, with not much passion admittedly, that we may as well hang on to the one we’ve got rather than swap it for the Muratti shirt/Nigerian flag with pizza thingy. And to be honest again, I’d never given much thought to how our current flag came to be. You’re beginning to put me off it now!!
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Looks irish. I’m not irish.
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Mark,
Do you really think this 2 colour flag looks like the 3 colour Irish flag?
If you are local, you are not english either.
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I have represented the Island in numerous sporting events for the last 15 years (most of which against the Jersey toads, but also 2 Island Games) and am extremely proud to wear the very distinctive Guernsey flag on my shirt, it just looks very unique, professional and smart.
It is iconic, when you spot one being proudly flown on television at a international sporting event or festival, does it not make you sit up and pay a bit more attention, wondering if you know the owner??
If it ain’t broke, dont fix it..Surely the States don’t need another excuse to throw taxpayers money down the drain by wasting their time discussing our flag.
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“The gold cross is Norman and we are not French” – this reason for objecting to the current flag does not make sense. As he says, the gold cross is Norman (not French) and we have Norman routes. So what’s the problem?
We have also been aligned to the English Crown for 800 years, so a blend of the Cross of St George (which is heavily associated with the time of when the Duchy of Normandy and England were one) with the Norman cross is a perfect, yet simple, image.
The current design works extremely well as a flag whereas this alternative is a mess.
Those objecting to the current flag on the basis that it looks like we are English should have greater faith in our ability to be close to England yet apart.
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The current flag of Guernsey imo is classy, cheap to reproduce, and has historical significance. Now the ensign worn by Guernsey ships really does need a ‘seeing’ to. Who on earth felt that the flag of the British Union was relevant to us? Surely either the Guernsey flag or the cross of St. George with the Guernsey flag in the canton would be more appropriate. Does anyone know if a Guernsey boat can still wear the plain cross of St George as an ensign?
Another point whilst on the topic of flags. Why is it that the first flag a visitor (by boat) to Guernsey sees is the British Union flag? This refers to the flag flown from Castle Cornet. No wonder people are confused about our heritage. I think it would be most fitting for the Guernsey flag to be flown from that particular location.
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What on earth has the sarnian shield appearing on the national flag of Nigeria supposed to say..?
Leave it as it is !
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deluded… lets just fly a pancake up a flag pole and dance naked whilst lobbing eggs at each other.
guernsey is looseing it identity due to the states, and their weakness to allow monstrosities to be built. the flag is the least of our worries…
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Well, Fred, I’ll say three things:
1. You put the States there.
5. You try and do better.
13. I think the new buildings are great – perhaps you’d rather they be bland 50s architecture that you probably grew up with.
The numerically challenged BTF
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The proposed design is flawed on so many counts and all have already been said.
The current flag design reflects the history of Guernsey, the red and white design is simple and eye catching.
Keep the current flag it works well on all fronts.
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How sad that this man has nothing better to worry about. The current flag makes perfect sense and is in-keeping with the flags of the other islands in the Bailiwick and Jersey. That said it is refreshing to find a Guernsey Donkey looking for change albeit for an ultimately pointles and made up problem.
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i agree with Guernsey Fred, the states are mucking up the island with more and more industrilious waste of buildings – look at Jersey, it’s all but lost its identity, and we are heading the same way – what with all the local shops going down the toilet. what sort of Christmas shopping are we in for this year?! everyone will end up with the same things.
billy you admit to not being able to count, how about being able to submit more thoughtless propganda to a cause more worth your while…
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I’m Guernsey born and have worked in different places around the world for the last 30 years. Every time I go back to Guernsey I go to the Guernsey Press in town and buy my supple of car sticker flags and fridge magnets with something about Guernsey on them. I am in China at the moment and my car here has 1 Guernsey flag and a crest with the 3 leopards/lions on it and I am proud to tell people that the flag is where I was born. For the last 25 years I have used the Guernsey flag as part of my identity.
Guernsey might be small but the whole world knows her. You can always find a Guernsey man in any city around the world, and if you can’t, there will be a Jersey man, not the best thing to find, but when you are a long way from home, a Jersey man is the next best thing to home.
Our Flag tells us who we are, not what it stand for.
The Guernsey flag is the best in the world, only someone not a true Guernsey man would complain. I have added a link below so you can see what a real Guernsey flag looks like.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://flagspot.net/misc/gg%27.gif&imgrefurl=http://flagspot.net/flags/gg.html&usg=__ybIsCjqFoU-qpAed9JCi770g3Kc=&h=216&w=324&sz=4&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=sel8HD7OKcDb-M:&tbnh=126&tbnw=189&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dguernsey%2Bflag%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1437%26bih%3D739%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C80&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=334&vpy=187&dur=4660&hovh=172&hovw=259&tx=134&ty=97&ei=IyWwTMezKYyisQO7tcTpCw&oei=IyWwTMezKYyisQO7tcTpCw&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0&biw=1437&bih=739
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In Sats Dear Sirs/ Opinion in the Press there is a letter from a Mr Torode with an alternate Guernsey flag design.To me its an absolute winner.If it did have to change at all I would do is put the three Leopards crest in the centre of the green cross. Well done Mr Torode.
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Let’s bury this debate. It’s pointless. We have a perfectly good flag. It has become well recognised and accepted over the last 25 years. It stand outs much better than that totally unimaginative and drab green and white thing with the ghastly crest in the middle. It doesn’t matter what it signifies or how it came about. It’s here, it does the job perfectly well. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
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