Landsbanki: Trott should be doing more for us, say depositors
Tuesday 5th October 2010, 2:29PM BST.
THE CHIEF minister should be fighting to help Landsbanki depositors regain their money, according to the Landsbanki Guernsey Depositors Action group.
The group is made up from savers from all over the world who had money with the Icelandic bank, which collapsed two years ago.
Last month Deputy Lyndon Trott (pictured) said there was no need for him to meet the group, and the Policy Council had been communicating with the joint administrators.
However, a group spokesman said Deputy Trott should be doing more.
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I think it should be pointed out that Landsbanki Guernsey was a Guernsey registered bank regulated by the GFSC and not an Icelandic bank. Which is why depositors feel that the local government has a role to play in helping them in their struggle and in finding out how this happened in a ” well regulated ” jurisdiction.
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Guernsey – 1 bank collapsed ( due to its parent collapsing ( due to the Icelandic economy collapsing ))
UK – how many banks collapsed/[would have collapsed if the Government hadn't mortgaged itself to the hilt ( and beyond ) to rescue them] ???? …..
Based on that, which is better regulated would you say ?
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……..what a different scenario it would all have been if the good Lyndon had had a couple of his own bean-bags in that infamous bank!!??
Those who escape the downfall,sometimes fall themselves. (And, no, I did not have any pennies in Landsbanki, so no axe to grind.)
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It’s their own fault for depositing in a bank nobody’s ever heard of!
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Landsbanki group question Chief Minister’s “robust and consistent dialogue”, in his response to Deputy DeLisle in the States Meeting 29th Sept 2010.
1. Landsbanki Guernsey depositors agree with the Chief Minister that it is the Joint Administrator’s prime objective to claw back funds, but as in other countries there must be a demonstrably strong political objective to ensure that depositors regain 100% of their funds
2. They also note his co-operation with the Administrators when asked to do so – it is hardly an option, not to be seen to be co-operating would be detrimental to Guernsey’s Government.
3. The LGDAG parts company however over his frequently alleged, ‘robust & consistent dialogue’. He has not demonstrated to depositors what form this has taken, the results achieved, nor why depositors represented by the UK and the Netherlands’s Governments have gained a preferential creditor status for repayments of their deposits over Landsbanki Guernsey depositors who have been reduced to no status at all. His ‘assistance’ to a handful of private depositors regarding WUB deadlines ignores the majority, i.e.: some 99% of depositors. He used the words ’equally and fairly’, which cannot be applied to the way depositors have, and continue to be, treated by the Guernsey Government.
4. LGDAG also strongly disagrees with his view on the Promontory Report, commissioned by the GFSC for the GFSC – after all, turkeys do not vote for Christmas.
There is a catastrophic failing by someone, somewhere, when a sinking bank is permitted by the Regulator to transfer large sums, including depositors personal savings to a sister and similarly failing bank in the UK, rather than to an independent bank.
5. For the sake of all retail depositors in Guernsey, it would be wise for the CM to demonstrate PRO-ACTIVE support and co-operation with depositors rather than continuing his ‘us and them’ attitude. The falling retail deposits may be a small part of Guernsey’s finance industry… But might count when managers of non-retail funds consider their next moves.
6. Whichever way the words are churned, the CM has still not agreed (much less actively sought) to meet and inform depositors of actions taken by him – surely the least he could do, as the jurisdiction’s Government representative on their behalf. LGDAG’s invitations in the wake of his unsolicited and unconditional Radio Guernsey offer in 2009 still stand. His justification for declining, by repeatedly referring to ‘taxpayers’ money’ to engender support for reneging on his offer, is a poor and overworked excuse.
7. We look forward to the written reply to Deputy Delisle by the Chief Minister on the discriminatory nature of the Landsbanki Guernsey Depositors position with the Icelandic Winding up Board.
8. All depositors in Guernsey whether Landsbanki or not will be interested in the CM’s promised response to questions asked in the States about the adequacy or otherwise of the Guernsey depositors compensation scheme in the light of this saga. How safe are YOUR deposits?
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Greg Gregson
Why did the GFSC allow the sale of safe Cheshire savings to a bank that no-one had ever heard of?
Toby
That was not the reason for the collapse of the Guernsey bank. It collapsed due to clear regulatory failure by the GFSC, who should have required L Guernsey Ltd to spread its deposits, in conformity with best international banking practice, and not concentrate them in Heritable which was clearly exposed to Icelandic risk. L Guernsey Ltd could easily have survived if the GFSC hadn’t been asleep at the wheel. That’s why we MUST have a public inquiry, as has happened in the UK and Isle of Man.
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Guernsey should be congratulated. It is the only country in the western world not to have supported depositors in a collapsed bank which it regulated and that was located on its territory.
Clearly depositing money in a Guernsey based bank can seriously damage your wealth.
Why would any sane and informed saver ever again entrust their hard earned money to a Guernsey based financial institution?
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OK, so the Landsbanki bank has completely collapsed thanks to gross negligence. It was after all the primary Icelandic bank functioning with all the agreements and under all the conditions of the Island of Guernsey. So come on guys, play fair, we want our money back NOW.
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Lesley R and Gary B just about says it all:
GFSC totally responsible in allowing Cheshire Guernsey to be gobbled up by Landsbanki Islands hf. My husband was terminally ill when the takeover took place, hadn’t heard of Landsbanki but TRUSTED the GFSC to have done their homework, as there wasn’t time to do our own checking. Yes, I know, tough, how stupid to trust GFSC’s commitment In the last two years, Guernsey banking has haemorraged. The people of Guernsey should be seriously worried about the state of the island’s future economy as Guernsey’s financial reputation internation-ally is in freefall.
To illustrate their responsibility, the GFSC should guarantee repayment of the balance owing to LG depositors after the final payout from the Administrators. They wriggled out of introducing Depositors’ Protection Scheme til well after LG’s collapse although apparently in financial circles ‘everyone knew’ months’ before 7th October 2008. How secure is that?
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After having lost money with Landsbanki Guernsey and seeing the pathetic response to the situation by the Guernsey authorities, who have done little to help and clearly have something to hide…. I transferred all my remaining savings away from the island and I won’t be coming back. I continue to advise other friends, colleagues and associates in the financial world to do the same.
I’m not necessarily looking for the Guernsey authorities to support savers with taxpayers money, i’d simply like Trott to actually say and do something positive to help recover our funds. People’s lives have been wrecked and many will die before they see their funds returned. Listening to him is like listening to the same old record time and time again… where he says it’s the responsibility of the Administrators.
Yes, indeed, they play a major part in the recovery of assets, but Guernsey itself needs to play an active role too, just like every other country in the world where banks have failed.
Guernsey… you took the money when things were going well and enjoyed the prosperity, but when the going got tough, you buried your heads in the sand.
Doesn’t Trott realise that the best way to grow Guernsey’s financial industry would be to be a proactive partner in putting things right what something goes wrong, rather than simply travelling the world telling people what a great place Guernsey is to do business? Actions will always speak louder than words.
Trott needs to look up the word “empathy” in a dictionary!
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My wife and I invested our money in Cheshire Bank and when it was sold to Landsbanki we had written confirmation from the Cheshire Bank that Landsbanki was a well regulated Bank which had been going for over a hundred years and could be trusted. On the basis of their recomendation we agreed to leave our money in the new bank. I assumed that Guernsey regulators had also checked the credibility of this bank as they allowed the sale to take place and yet when the bank goes down the Guernsey Administrators just shrug their shoulders and hope the problem will go away. I am sure I and many others will have not only moved whatever funds they have left away from Guernsey but will also make absolutely sure anyone of their aquaintance hears of the administrators appalling lack of concern for the mostly elderly investors who have lost their money.
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It is incredible that such a narrow minded stubborn individual is allowed t opreside over the governing of Guernsey; as Trott prevaricates capital flight grows from the islands banks – this is the true bell weather of the financial communities take of guernseyc current banking system. Fall in capital inflow result in one thing only – less funds for central government spending and a lower standard of living for all on the Island – how much real capital has been lost whilst trott contunies to try to make political capital from savers who are the voters on the island?
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For those of you who would like to hear the exchange between Deputy DeLisle and Trott in the States on Wed 29th September 2010 and make up you own minds as to whether he satisfactorily answered the questions, it can be heard here:
http://www.landsbankiguernseyfiasco.net/Audio%20extracts/Chief%20Minister%20reply%20to%20Questions%20landsbanki%20States%2029Sept%202010%2029-09-2010_17;45;32.mp3
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With regard to Gregory Gregson comment
“It’s their own fault for depositing in a bank nobody’s ever heard of!”
No it’s not because most people did not put their money in Landsbanki Guernsey but Cheshire Guernsey. The Guernsey authorities allowed Landsbanki to take over Cheshire and depositors were persuaded to leave it there because of a clean bill of health from the Guernsey Financial Services Commission which was touted in Landsbanki’s own literature.
Without this, most people would have taken there money out.
Presumably if Landsbanki had decided to call the bank Icesave Guernsey instead, your statement would hold no merit whatsoever.
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LT has no answers without drawing attention to the fact that the GFSC & himself were negligent in the proceedings leading up to the collapse as well as after. Guernsey has a bad habit of believing & trusting departments & specialists know best.
No legal pressure & no lawyer = no return of 100% in this case.
The savers are not going to get any sympathy from anybody. I said it from the start & I will say it again. It is time that those responsible for the error of their ways are made accountable in a proper legal fashion.
LT is not going to incriminate himself or the “open & transparent, well regulated” body that funds his travels. Why tarnish that when it would pretty much destroy all the delusions that has been the backbone & his main focus since taking his role?
The CM has answers. None that would do himself or GFSC any favours. He is scared of being put on the spot. It is time to stop going round in circles & start applying the pressure in all the right places.
People have heard all the arguments dozens of times over now. Many are bored. The only thing that has not been discussed is why the legal proceedings have not started yet. Why no savers legal consortium?
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Two years of struggle and misery: I trusted Guernsey authorities, How wrong I was!!! They just dont give a fig: As for the politicians?
I would not be allowed to say!!!
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When Cheshire Guernsey wrote to me about the transfer of my account, they explained that the parent bank taking over my account was a sound bank in existance for over one hundred years, the sale approved by the regulator and not only that, the new parent bank gave an undertaking they would take overall financial responsibilty thus ensuring depositors “peace of mind.” The regulator now of course says it requires this undertaking but that effectively they know it is only a “scam” to lure depositors, with the regulator’s connivance. No doubt they wish us a happy 2nd anniversary of losing our funds.
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Mr Ervinn
When I started reading your comment
“With regard to Gregory Gregson comment
“It’s their own fault for depositing in a bank nobody’s ever heard of!” I wondered if you were going to say that the comment asks some searching questions of the competence of GFSC and its staff in its regulating of the bank.
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With regard to the comment about it “being our own fault for investing in a bank that nobody had ever heard of”….
All depositors received a letter from Cheshire/Landsbanki (backed by the GFSC) stating that the parent bank would “guarantee” to cover the obligations of Landsbanki Guernsey in the unlikely event that they were unable to do so themselves.
However, if that same letter had said that there was in place merely a “letter of comfort” stating that the parent bank would step in if LG should fail, but the “Letter of Comfort” is not legally binding and will never be signed by the counterparties anyway… which is effectively what happened, how many Cheshire depositors would have left their money with Landsbanki? Very few I am sure. We were conned under the “not so watchful” eyes of the GFSC.
How can any Guernseyman say that the GFSC was not negligent when they knew only too well (or at least they should have) that the “guarantee” was not legally binding? That’s on top of allowing LG to deposit a huge percentage of it’s assets with a sister bank at the same time as it was very clear to everyone else that Iceland was on the brink.
Words absolutely fail me…
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No point in replying to any comment made by GG. He is only fishing for replies to wind people up, are you not Greg you sad person? Do tell us what you really think Greg Gregson, just this once.
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Is it the IMF or Icelandic Government that is taking the Icelandic Chief or Finance Minister to court for the failure of their regulatory system in relation to their financial service companies as reported recently in the FT?
Shouldn’t the Guernsey Government be looking to do likewise, as surely our Chief or Finance Minister either do have, or should have retained, the same level of responsibility over the GFSC?
In any event if regulation by the GFSC has been deficient (it sertainly wasn’t sufficient to save the bank, its deposits & the jobs of its staff) then the Government who charged the GFSC with the regulatory responsibility should either make the GFSC answerable or alternatively the Government should hold its hand up and admit that delegation by them of this duty to the GFSC was responsible for insufficient regulation, or certainty over the parental guarantee, to save the bank, deposits and local staff jobs.
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Does anybody here have any idea how the administrators are getting on? We have not had a decent update on recoveries and further payments for a considerable time now.
Is the LGDAG in contact with the administrators? If so, could we have an update please. Either on the website or via e-mail to the mailing list.
Regards,
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Lyndon is good at Gardening
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I am very disappointed in the authorities in Guernsey. This Island is supposed to be a well regulated place but obviously this is not the case – as depositors found out to their detriment. It’s hard to trust any institution now!
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Spoke to a financial adviser here in Guernsey the other day on another matter. Then he brought up Landsbanki GUERNSEY Ltd and the GFSC: without my prompting I might add. It was in relation to another ‘people’s'money taking institution that he is concerned about here in Guernsey but I will skip over that. He bore out what we have been saying since we have gathered a lot more facts than our ignorant critics, about the collapse. The GFSC were warned time and time again, by the financial industry, about problems with Landsbanki but did nothing. They failed to get the documentation they said they would have, signed and did nothing. Lazy? Incompetence? I know not; but I know they were overpaid and overstaffed for the efforts they employed as the crisis developed long before it collapsed. If anyone had the morality and honesty to resign it would have shown responsibility for the situation and that could not be allowed. Instead they move people around promoting and rewarding them; to Guernsey’s eternal shame. To those in charge of this fiasco, you will be old sooner than you think. You will be vunerable, if not in the pocket like many LBG pensioners, but to your conscience. When you no longer have the group mentality to justify your shameful actions you will fall pray to reflection and melancholy and rue the day you ever turned your back on a situation of your making. Shame on you all!
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Dave, I posted my opinion, is this not allowed????
I don’t understand why people put money in a bank they’ve never heard of.
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The role of the Administrators is to help those who lost their money to get it back.
The role of politicians is to help put pressure AT THE TIME IT IS OF USE, and to allow a review to function efficiently.
The former is doing it’s job, the latter is sticking its head in the sand. Too little action or pressure by LT (as proved by information requests to the UK government) too late, and the GFSC saying everything was ok after a bank it had given permission to operate turned a letter of guarantee into a worthless comforter.
The only thing that could save a shred of dignity for LT would be an effort to actually help those who have still lost money after the Administrators finish their role.
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I keep on reading that the Landsbanki depositors are able to recoup their losses without using tax payers money.
Well why dont they just do it without continualy slagging off the island.
Beats me.
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“The only thing that could save a shred of dignity for LT would be an effort to actually help those who have still lost money after the Administrators finish their role.”
It had also been demonstrated to LT exactly how he can do this without using any local taxpayers money. Get your dignity back LT. Do it!!
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The chief minister is a disgrace. He has done nothing at all to help the victims of LG.
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Janson
Excellent post, but judging from this experience, I doubt anyone in that building would ever accept personally to themselves or professionally to their peers and public that they made an error.
That says more about their personalities because everyone on the island knows that they did make huge errors. And who knows what other things are currently “slipping by (unnoticed)”. Its probably best not to think about it!!
But unforutnately there is a culture of “I’m right and your wrong” no matter what the circumstance, that pervades from there, which is exactly the attidue a regulator should not have.
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I take back my last comment and appologise to the savers who are having such a hard time over this unfortunate matter.
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@ Gregory Gregson
Well done GG, seems you have turned a corner from your usual insidious posts, nice to see someone Man Up.
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Deputy Trott is a disgrace to Guernsey. There is a frail old lady who has lost her savings with Landsbanki Guernsey lying in hospital with abroken leg about to celebrate her 99th birthday on 17th October. Elizabeth Castle has waited 2 years for Trott to come to her assistance. He wouldn’t even visit her in hospital. Guernsey voters would do well to remember Trott’s record when he next stands for election.
As for the Guernsey Financial Services: frankly they should be taken before the International Court of Justice to account for their failings over LG.
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Dave, that’s not me I don’t apologise. I’m the brown Gregory Gregson.
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It has to be said now that all the CM has achieved has hindered rather than helped the savers position.
He has effectively allowed his own people to be pushed to the back of the line & is wanting to absolve himself with a defiant pass of the buck onto the administrators.
Are these the actions of a good leader?
Is this a boost for the GFSC?
Both should be pressing the administrators on a regular basis for sound updates so these can be passed onto those that have had losses.
Maybe Janson Bewey can explain why the consortium isn’t taking legal advice?
Actions should be swift & just. All this whinging is getting nobody nowhere. It rarely does.
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This whole affair of the failure of a Guernsey registered bank is not just about Landsbanki Guernsey, it is about each and every depositor who has a retail account in Guernsey.
The eventual return of money from a failed bank is ultimately the responsibility of the appointed Administrator, but equally important is the part that needs to be played by the Financial Services Commission and the Guernsey government in ensuring depositors’ money is as safe as it possibly can be within the banks that are registered here on the island.
In the case of Landsbanki there are huge question marks regarding the upstreaming of money, and with regard to the Guernsey Depositors Compensation Scheme, just how effective is it? Both of these the ultimate responsibility of both the GFSC and the Guernsey government.
Confidence needs to be restored to retail banking and the only way you will achieve that is by working with depositors in a much more pro-active way.
Will the the lessons learned from the Landsbanki saga be enough to prevent similar collapses in the future?
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Gregory Gregson
A more pertinent question would be: why did the GFSC permit the sale of safe Cheshire savings to a bank that no-one had heard of?
JohnT
Not slagging off Guernsey. Just pointing out the clear regulatory failure by the GFSC and the necessity for an independent public inquiry.
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It is a disgrace that the elected representives of the public in Guernsey have not made a song and dance about all this.
In the UK the Gov. used anti-terrorism laws, for goodness sake!
Instead here we have appeasement.
The politicians should not be in thrall to business. They should be making life as hard as possible in supporting the Guernsey electorate.
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@Dave
I sincerely hope all affected get all money back, Not sure who the ‘brown’ gregory is but the real GG is truly sorry for this to have happened, to say its their own fault is just plain wrong. The real Gregory Gregson (GG) is a man for the people, know matter who they are or where they are from.
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Paul,
The law that created the GFSC makes them immune from civil action, except when there’s “bad faith”.
I.e. the legislation protects them from being sued for the results of incompetence, negligence, or cockups, unless one can prove that they did it on purpose.
Responsibility without accountability.
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Well said Gregory, I knew you would see sense and back the people who lost out, well done GG. The ‘brown’ Gregory is trying to drag your good name down.
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I am disappointed with much of the above. Not even one mention of gratitude from anybody, not even the losers, aimed at Deputy de Lisle.
Is it any wonder many politicians feel disillusioned when their good work gets overlooked by those that choose to only concentrate on the negatives.
Support, at a political level, is worryingly thin on the ground. Virtually non existent. Show some respect & appreciation. The man needs to be thanked & applauded.
Well done DDdL. Thank you.
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Susie,
you are so right about the GFSC, They are protected by the law and how do you prove “bad faith”, does “Negligence” constituts “Bad faith”?
Trott also says “No Government failure”, but we have yet to see an inquiry and report that has looked into the Guernsey Government’s handling of the Landsbanki Guernsey fiasco.
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