‘Pictures show it is not like-for-like replacement’
Monday 11th October 2010, 11:30AM BST.
Photographs supplied by the Environment Department show the boundary of Elena Cook’s property. In the ‘before’ picture, top, the now demolished fence is hidden by trees and bushes, but the recent one, bottom, shows the replacement clearly.
THE Environment Department has taken the unusual step of releasing before and after photographs to defend its decision not to grant retrospective planning permission for 65-year-old Elena Cook’s fence.
Mrs Cook has been told to take down the structure at her home at Les Rouvets, Vale.
She said she had replaced on a like-for-like basis another that had rotted after more than 30 years.
But planners said the photographs demonstrated clearly her like-for-like replacement claim was not true.
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This is absolutely pathetic!!
Message to environment.
Can you people just leave this woman alone, stop wasting our tax monies on pathetic minor squabbles, and actually do the job which we employ you for rather than a campaign against someone who’s done nothing wrong save for maybe not dotting an I or crossing a T.
And to anyone thats complained about this fence….. shame on you….. I beleive “get a life” is This is Guernsey’s in vogue phrase of the week. And is quite applicable in this case for environment and any complainant.
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To be honest the whole structure looks considerably different. There doesn’t even seem to have been a fence but rather a bush. I doubt very much that Mrs Cook could grow a substantial enough bush to block the fence. So what are they saying? She can have a fence but it needs to be blocked by trees? Come on Environment can you please think before you start trying to defend your actions.
The simple fact is that without a fence you are putting people’s lives in danger. Think of the legal claim you would have against you should an accident happen.
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Well of course the newer one is going to look different! I would think after 30 years the other was probably looking a lot worse for wear. Does this mean she has to batter the new one around a bit and swathe ivy and trees all over it?
It’s completely pathetic! Maybe if she’d painted it bright day-glo yellow they would have a tiny leg to stand on.
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This is like those weight loss before and after photos where they show a grumpy fat person taking in poor light and a smiling thinner version taken by a professional photographer!
Presumably the old fence was rotten, perhaps partly because of whatever was growing on it. Everything had to be taken off. The leaves from the other tree magically disappeared (no doubt at the same time as the magic hot ball in the sky started going quicker – the gods of Environment Department are displeased)
So ask her to grow some ivy or some other creeper on it. Go “grow some” yourselves, perhaps?
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” like for like” environment favours is it ,what about that beast going up in the grange opposite lukis house where fort group used to be ????
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further to my earlier post ,i’m on your side mrs cook, but it seems that you fell foul, for not applying for a replacementfence with green crap hanging all over it ,shame theres no picture of the fence as was when it was, when new years ago that would have baffled them . it seems the islands departments are increasingly being “directed ” by dysfunctionals who couldnt get a job in england !
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so Environment now have ‘before’ and after photo’s.
How did they know Mrs Cook was going to remove a fence and replace it with a new one, so as to take photos, before the illegal fencing actually happened?
Environment must now be telepathic, ( or words to that effect.!)
Shame they could’nt get the same angle for the two photos, so we could play spot the difference.
Actually drove down the road this weekend, and looked for this fencing eyesore. Trouble is someone has left a big bush in the way which obscured my view.!!!
and once i turned around and went up the hill, i twisted my neck so much whilst driving to see it above the 10ft granite wall, i almost crashed.!
I agree with previous posts.
Environment staff need a reality check and stop wasting our taxes. My tax money is being used to pay these individuals who appear to be justifying their employment?
and looking at the 10ft drop into the road, i agree with the planning inquiry.
For safety reasons a fence is a good idea!!!
But i bet a planning officer would prefer a line of hedging, which would need trimming, 15ft up in the air, on a busy road.
Thats Environment logic for you, because thats the Law.!!!!
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Absolutely ridiculous. Dave Haslam I echo your post entirely.
Instead of posting up pictures I would be more interested to know what Environment have suggested as an alternative for Mrs Cook’s fence. The only reason this does not look the same as it doesn’t have tree’s/bushes/ivy covering the fence, which I’m sure they can appreciate cannot be grown overnight.
If they have just done a blanket ban on a structure being there then appeal the decision, if they then uphold it take it to civil court for putting your disabled daughter (and young children if you have any that visit) at risk.
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She was given suggestions ways to make the area safe that would have been acceptable but chose not to do any of them and went ahead and built a larger fence than was there before closer to the wall than the old one was.
And now she moans about it. When will people learn that you get on much better if you work with people than fight against them?
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In the words of the famous grumpy old man ‘I don’t believe it!!!!”
Sorry Mrs Cooke, you have one big sting against you – you don’t socialize in the right circles in Guernsey! This would NEVER have been a problem in an area such as Fort George. Of course, you could always plant a load of well advanced ivy over the new fence to accelerate the rotting procedure and thus ‘satisfy’ THEM!
Beggars belief!
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Perhaps if the two pictures were taken at the same spot then a more valid comparsion could be made.
The after photo has been taken much closer to the property. I think that the small tree to the right of the new fence would partly obsure the fence and it wouldn’t be so noticable if the new photo had been taken much more up the road as the before had been.
Apart from that what is the issue.
Would they rather see someone killed.
But if they find it really offensive I am sure the owner could get some plants to grow down the fence from the top in window boxes!
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Once again the Environment Department have show us how stupid they really are. I mean come on they approve eyesore property/offices all around the island and they want this poor old woman to remove her fence as it doesn’t fit it with the area!! They must be having a laugh? You can hardly see the fence for pete’s sake. This department must be the most unpopular bunch of people on the Island. Just as well we don’t know who you are and then we can check your houses/fences/gates etc to see if they fit it. The law is an ASS.
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I had cause to say this just last year, there are obviously too many planners employed by Guernsey!
Regarding the photos, the ‘before’ picture looks to be taken in summer and the ‘after’ one would appear to be taken in winter. I can see twiggs everywhere!
I wonder if that door that has appeared will have to be removed aswell?
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Thinks we all missed a trick here
Maybe Health and Safety should tick off Environment for insisting demolishment to allow this hazard to stay in place!
Oh but then the old fence may have been grade 2 listed ~ with the ivy too!
Grow up States of Guernsey!!
You have no idea what Common Sense means.
Let alone liaising with other departments who could offer advice and help before you stomp in and just do the “rules” bit!
Soph’s rant for the week :)
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how old is the first photo? also are we not allowed to clear up the sides of our houses without planning permission? did the SS ever leave on lib day?
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Whilst I applaud the The Environment Department for releasing these images in order to quell some of the unrest in the media, they are not like-for-like pictures. You cannot even see the previous fence and the pictures are taken from completely different places!
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All Mrs Cook had to do in the first instance was to apply for authorisation following which she would not have caused all this nonsense. She chose to ignore her valuable citizenship and not apply for a licence, therefore the problem is of her making. She knew what she was doing. No different to driving without a driving licence, flying without a pilots license, opening a business license without a business……et al
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The before photo is not a photo of the fence- only vines/bushes which cover the actual fence. This means that the photo shown is not a valid comparison. Environment does not have a case based on this before photo.
Perhaps Mrs Cook has a photo of the old fence to prove that it really is “like for like”? Perhaps she has left over wood or pieces of fence? Perhaps the builder who removed and replaced the fence could give a statement? If she could do any of this then it would be an easy case to prove to Environment that it was “like for like” – unless of course they really are the unreasonable bearucrats that everyone says they are.
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This is right next to where my grandpa used to live. In all the times I used to go up and down this road I never cared to look up at the fence (or the ivy) and I don`t think anyone would now.
By the way, is the Environment Dept the former IDC? (I`ve been off the island a while).
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Hi.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GD.
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Why not move the fence forward a bit and plant some bushes infront?
I’m not a big fan on fences personally, but if it’s disguised by some bushes all’s good.
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The pictures are taken from pretty much the same place. One person above says you can’t even see the old fence, and that’s exactly the bloney point!
The door you see in the second pic is behind the bush in the first one, the wall has also been raised an extended as part of the extensive work that has been carried out on the property. The more recent pic is slightly more zoomed in but they are taken from the same place.
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Shame on the Environment Department !
They should just let this pass.
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i Feel that the environmental department has made a fully justified desision on this matter. the fence clearly is not exactly the same. had she taken the matters to track down the original manufacture of the fance and replaced it the exact same then we could accept it.
i’ll use a similar example to further prove the point, just look at the fruit export, they replaced…. it…….with …..exactly ..the same…..oh dear – i appear to have eaten my own words…………………………………………….
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You should have done it in glass, then it would not have been a problem.
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The photo is definately not like for like, if you look the door is covered in bushes and the wall is further away therefore the photo was taken closer on the new pics, also difference between summer when everything in full greeny vs now photo when everything has dropped its leaves. I drove down this road, and what did i notice more than this, a massive granite drive opening and a massive mound of ground so you cannot see stan brouard. That to me seems more out of keeping what ever is going to be built in there just by looking at the granite drive.
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I wonder how many people here supported Environment in their stance against the couple in St Andrews who disobeyed regulations and built their house too large? In principle this is no different – she broke the regulations.
This is a difficult situation though as my heart is in support of Mrs Cook – people should be allowed to do what they like on their property. My head however says that Environment are justified (if a little pedantic) – the law is the law after all.
Perhaps what is needed is a change in the law, where the “developments” allowed without permission from Environment are extended to include things like this. After all, it’s not really incongruous to the surroundings is it?
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Mrs Cook was advised by Planning to move the fence back and hide it with a new planting of bushes. If she had done that, and planted appropriate species, she wouldn’t have to be out there cutting a hedge several times a year, or even made to take the fence down.
The rules were made clear, she stubbornly did her own thing so why should she be let off? Who then decides who gets away with an infringement and who doesn’t? The public – some, at least – would be then run circles around a toothless authority.
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I agree Paul
It would not have been difficult for Mrs Cook to have gone about this in the right way, but she didn’t and now she has been caught out. She should just admit it and move on.
Trying to make a safety issue out of it is ridiculous. If it is that important then that’s all the more reason to have done it properly in the first place.
Jo
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Ridiculous decision by planning not to pass this, but at the end of the day, if they provided alternatives and Mrs Cook decided not to go with them, then this is a bit of a non-story no?
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i see a few people have backed the enviroment please think about ivy rots wood the stuff the fence is made of so do we now have to apply to cut down weeds an cut trees back that is needed to be done that weeds trees cannot over hang a road .Basicly the ivy/weeds rotted the fence ITS CALLED REPAIRS comon sense please o and drove down the road to have a look for myself not like it jumps out at you next year it will be weathered an noone will even think about it just causing hassle over nothing to waste money .
i just wonder is this a cover up/diversion for the next big over spend by our states ?
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It’s impossible to say from these photos whether Mrs. Cook replaced ‘like with like’ or not as the wild growth, (it’s certainly NOT a hedge), completely obscures the original fence in the first photo. But in any case there is nothing unreasonable or objectionable in this replacement. Clearly the Environment Department are simply trying to justify yet another arbitrary, (perverse even?), decision.
They seem to be following in the well-trodden path of their predecessors, the IDC, in obsessing themselves in the minutiae of ordinary people’s fences, garden sheds etc., while offering little or no opposition to the erection of hideously inappropriate structures by powerful corporate bodies and affluent individuals alike.
It is feeble and hypocritical, and they do the Island and Islanders a huge disservice. It is to be hoped that common sense will finally prevail in this case – but it seems unlikely.
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Tomb,
Let me have your address and I’ll send you some punctuation.
Regards
Jo
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I think the after photo looks tidier,safer and easier to maintain than the original so what exactly is the problem? It’s “inkeeping with the surrounding area” except for looking a little more “fresh” perhaps! :)
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WTF.
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i think we should all agree with the development departments desicion in this.
like for like seems to be the new rule.
at least we have it in concrete now – the rule not the fence.
we can now use this to our advantage people!! let rebuild what we have thats broken!!!
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