Airport security needs review, says Aurigny
Saturday 30th October 2010, 2:29PM BST.
AURIGNY’S managing director said airport security needs to be reviewed.
Malcolm Hart’s comments follow those by BAA’s chief executive, Colin Matthews, who said airport security checks should be a single, coherent process.
‘I think the time is absolutely right for a review of the procedures currently in place,’ said Mr Hart (pictured) .
FlyBe declined to comment and no-one from Blue Islands was immediately available for comment.
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I would normally agree, but with these printer cartridges being found I think there should be more stringent security!
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What I cannot understand is the inconsistency. We are told that Guernsey Airport merely follows what they are directed to do, but why do we operate different levels of checks than other UK airports (plus Jersey)?
Over the past 3 months I have flown frequently to/from Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow, Southampton and Jersey. At those airports about 1 in 4 passengers are asked to remove their belts and shoes as random checks.
At Guernsey airport, which must surely be just about the lowest risk airport of them all, especially for flights departing from here, it is 100% belt removal, 100% shoe removal and seems to be around 50% swab checks on bag contents. Totally excessive. I could understand if it was mandatory for all airports to apply such a policy but it very clearly isn’t. Guernsey appears to have chosen to ignore any element of discretion clearly permitted by the regulations – either that or all other UK airports are not complying with the regulations. Which is it?
If we dont need to do 100% checks then we could probably reduce screening staff levels by 2 or 3, which would chop around £100k a year off the airport (public sector) wage bill.
I would take an awful lot of convincing that Guernsey needs to be maintain 100% checks as at present for security risk reasons. It just doesnt stack up.
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This is Guernsey, we do not need the ridiculous amount of security procedures as in transatlantic flight, for god’s sake why do we still need to take our shoes off? Remember the suicide bombers are after the yanks, they’ve probably never even heard of Guernsey.
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David
I couldn’t agree more, the security at the airport is so far over the top it’s ridiculous.
We could also save more money by getting rid of the security at the Courts, I just don’t see where the perceived threat exists. That would be another £100k plus, voila, bowel screening unit funded in two easy measures!
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Isn’t it strange that at Obama’s lowest rating with mid term elections coming up bombs are dicovered!
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Phil
Absolutely right, although I suspect that from time to time there may be a one-off need for higher security at the Court building as we’ve seen in the past couple of years for murder/manslaughter cases or major drugs cases, but nowhere near often enough to justify the year-round spend on high security. The current security officers must be bored to tears, twiddling their thumbs all day. At least those at the airport are able to fill their time
by making us all undress, emptying out our carry-on luggage and carrying out swab tests on all of the contents whenever they get bored, which seems to be all the time.
And if the Education Department stopped the scandalous practice of giving former teachers the same annual paid holidays as teachers when they switch from teaching to administration then that would enable Education to cut staff there as well to provide extra funding for special projects like the ones which were the subject of this debate.
Its really not rocket science.
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If (and in my mind that is a big if) bombs were found in printers, missing them at the point of departure would have been pure stupidity. Why on earth would somebody in an uber islamic country like Yemen ship anything to a jewish recipient half way around the world? Particularly one in the home town of a struggling US president. I’m inclined to think the security industry is just pumping up business.
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The Department of Transport and the US Frederal Avation Authority carry out checks/tests where thier agents attempt to smuggle through weapons and expolsive past security. Over 75% of the time the contraband items go through un-noticed. The security is pointless and ineffective against all bar the most inept terrorist or crazie.
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mike
I was thinking the same thing
I remember that liar Blair positioned a few mini tanks on the Heathrow flightpath just before an election a few years ago due to a scare which ( thankfully) was a false alarm
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Just because we are not a “high risk” destination or origin does not mean that our security checks should be any less than anywhere else, after all, once you are airside, if you check through and just have to transfer flights whilt staying airside, you are not going to be security checked again. If terrorists thought that security here was lower than anywhere else, what is to stop them getting into the airside system from here?
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Eh
Having transitted through Dubai recenlty I can assure you that you are subject to security checks just as if you had checked in normally.
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As a former security staff member all I can say to you is this…
IF you were sat on a plane from the island and someone puled a gun out and hijacked the plane and diverted to the destination that was hundreds of miles from where you wanted to be, who are you going to complain to ? The person with the gun or the company who provided the “lack of security”. You just complain for the lack or nothing to be happy about
Forget the fact that its a “fairly safe” destination, we live in a multi racial island and you are by far safer boarding a plane here then you are walking down the High Street.
Deal with the fact that you have to take your belt or jewellery off for a moment , the staff don’t WANT to smell your sweaty shoes but HAVE to for YOUR own good.
Likewise when you get frisked , they have to deal with your bad breath, stale tobacco/alcohol smells body odour . nauesating perfumes or aftershave and general unpleasantness of having to touch your flabby skin. not many people actually wear deodorant so how would you feel if you were touching sweat ridden clothes.
They have strong hand cleanser for disinfecting their hands and in many cases it is needed.
Hopefully you will not be travelling back from Manchester as you know that the security staff there are looking at your inadequate body parts on the walk through x-ray machine and laughing at you without you seeing them.
DEAL WITH IT
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Eh
I’m not suggesting for one moment that our security checks should be less than anywhere else. My question was why ours are so much higher than anywhere else. I travel through at least 4 or 5 UK different airports each month, including Gatwick at least once a week, and I can assure you that my observations are 100% accurate as I always notice how much easier it is to travel through all those other (higher-risk than Guernsey!) airports than it is to clear through security at Guernsey.
Other airports in the UK (and Jersey) do NOT demand 100% belt removal and shoe removal. They ask for it randomly, in my experience only every 4 or 5 passengers. So why do we operate to far higher standards than everyone else, and how much does it cost us to be over-compliant?
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Do You really know?
Are you serious? You’ll be suggesting next that we have tanks and soldiers with machine guns at Guernsey airport.
You are simply missing the point though. Its as simple as this:
1. Why do we apply higher standards of checks than the mainstream, and obviously higher-risk UK airports?
2. If those other airports have discretion to use random checks, does Guernsey not have the same discretion? If not, why not? If so, why do we not use it?
Put it another way – Glasgow Airport suffered an actual bomb scare when the guy with the Jeep rammed the entrance as part of a plot to blow it up. They now operate random checking while Guernsey applies 100% checks.
Sorry, but I cannot fathom the logic of that.
I would absolutely no problem at all if all UK airports (plus Guernsey and Jersey)applied exactly the same level of checks. There would be clear logic to that – all following the same directive. Somebody in Guernsey though has made a decision for us not to use whatever discretion is permitted, and which the other airports are utilising. Who and why?
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I totally agree with Eh. Guernsey’s security systems should be the equal of, if not better than, international airports. Don’t be fooled by those that say Guernsey is insignificant or of no strategic importance. Wasn’t something similar said in early 1940 and we all know what happened afterwards.
Yes we can all ask questions about Obama’s popularity ratings and concoct conspiracy theories but the Lockerbie bomb was real, as were the numerous hijackings that have occurred over the years so there is a real danger.
Terrorist groups who are serious about causing mayhem will be constantly on the lookout for weak links and I for one don’t want Guernsey to be one of them. We have links to London’s second largest airport as well as major airports like Manchester and it would be dead easy for a resourceful group with funding to ship materials to the island under the radar.
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Do you really know?
i agree with some of your comments, but what about inter-island flight with the trislanders don’t need a gun i can tap the pilot on the shoulder and talk to him.
Maybe to make life easier for inter-island flight there should be a seperate area to go.
Also sometimes a bit of politeness from security staff would not go a miss i.e. good morning, or please, or a thank you, even with a smile now and then.
Or is it in the job description you have to be related to HITLER
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Do You really know
Good to hear how the (some) security staff view the travelling public, now i know why so many of them have such a terrible attitude towards passengers.
Not talking about any particular airport.
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Firstly . to all who have read my comments – they are MY views as an EX security guard , NOT the views of anyone currently employed, My employment ended a few years ago. I ended my employment because of the attitude of the general public.
Do not forget that the regulations are set by the Department of Transport in the UK who visit often, they are not set locally and whichever company is operating locally at the particular time has to abide by them. NO regulations are set locally. ALL airports are supposed to stick by them but obviously some do and some dont , hence why sometimes you will get asked for shoes and sometimes you wont.
Re the “belts” issue, one of the many reasons is for your convenience , If you are wearing a belt they very often contain metal – metal sets off the detectors and then you get searched , the same goes for keys . some jewellery , some wallets , all phones, ipods etc etc etc. When i was there you would ask the usual questions , get some rude reply back saying ” NOTHING in my pockets” that person would the set the alarm off because they didn’t want to part with their beloved mobile for 30seconds, this then causes a search and a queue for other passengers.
re inter island flights , sure , but they have no idea what plane you are travelling on, boarding cards are only checked to see that the date of travel is correct , more and more people these days are using online check-in and can check in a day or so before travel date , which I can never understand the reasons for that.
They are not there to help you , they are there to uphold the legal requirements of the airline you are travelling with.
On a personal level I stand by the comments about hygiene and another reason why I left the job.
Some of the people who complain would do well to do the job for a short while , it will always be a job that’s criticised but which no one will ever consider the implications of until its too late.
I am frequently in the travel queue , in fact you may well have been behind me this past weekend , I am the one who had all his things ready and correct and sailed through without any searches
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Do you really know.
“not many people actually wear deodorant so how would you feel if you were touching sweat ridden clothes”
That is the job you signed up to do. Like it or not “patting down” people will involve “touching” strangers. I assume the reason you are no longer in the job is because you thought it was all glamour and soon realised you actually had to touch these smelly passengers.
Hopefully you have a new job and this time you did the research as to what it entails.
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From another x security staff memeber to answer why Guernsey is so over the top relates to the visits made by DFT who come over and inspects our airport. Each time they come over, they make a report that goes to Colin Le Ray. Colin Le Ray has to make sure that changes are implemented which includes security. It is DFT that keep moving the goal posts, changing the rules and our airport has to abide by any changes DFT makes.
As for moving the goal posts, one day you can do random searches, like 1 in 4, next day, after a visit from DFT, the rules have changed. it is 100% body searches, all belts off etc. Same with shoes and bags. So, try to be a bit understanding next time you go through security, it is not the staff who make the rules, as silly as the rules seem. Security staff are under scrutiny all the time, form security management, the authorities, and most of all DFT.
If security staff was not taking enough shoes off, doing enough swabs, or being relaxed in body searching and bag searching, they all get it in the neck.
I agree, the rules should be the same at all airports, why they are not, I do not know, I suppose it is down to who’s running it, management, and I would say some DFT inspectors are more strict than others inconsistant. What applies to Gatwick should be the same throughout all UK airports, alas, it does not seem to work this way.
All I do know, Colin Le Ray is the one who is subject to DFT and all airport staff are too, not just security. I believe, by what I have been taught, put me right if wrong, if our airport did not conform, ignored DFT, DFT would report our airport to the Civil Aviation Authority and flights could be stopped going to the UK. It is a very difficult area and no easy solution.
No one likes the rules, airport staff included, but unfortunatly, this will not change, it is what everyone has to abide by, the rules made by DFT, and the Civil Aviation Authority and we all have to make the best of it.
All I can say to passengers is be prepared. Make every effort to make sure your trip through security goes as sweet as possible. If you are unsure, speak to security before you travel.
I would like to point out a couple of facts which I believe our airport authorities seem to miss. Security outside the terminal seems to be none existant. Plenty of entry points accessable. If there was a threat, it would come from the outside, not inside. So tight on passengers yet fail to secure the perimeter. Staff walk in and out without being checked at some points. The public would find no trouble entering the airport grounds. What about these issues? Be consistant at least. Everything aimed at the passengers of comercial airlines, everything else forgotten about. This is not a dig, but there is alot more security issues that need sorting.
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Genius response by Gsy airport.
Printer cartridges now banned on aircraft.
Do we really pay these people.
Come on Al Queda lets have the first bra bomb.
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Having seen some of the comments made by posters (Eh, Do you Really Know, Paul Le Page) I hope they are merely hyberbole but somehow I doubt it.
All I can say is how glad I am not to be afflicted by this apparent constant fear of being attacked by terrorists, the likelihood of which is so miniscule it’s simply not worth worrying about. Do these people panic every time they get in a car or a train, or ride a cycle or a motorbike, or cross the road?
As for Do You Really Know’s comments, they really do indicate the kind of mindset of your average jobsworth security bod. Rude, unpleasant, unhelpful, lowly paid, chip on shoulder etc, I don’t know why they don’t get off their backsides and retrain as compliance officers, at least they’d get paid a bit more!
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P.S.
Someone stated “sometimes a bit of politeness from security staff would not go a miss”, I agree, a few, I say only a few have let the uniform go to their heads, like with other jobs of authority, there is good and bad, but in defence of G4S, there is alot of presure on them with all the rules and scrutiny, alot less to smile about, especially when passenegers too, are rude, indignant and full of self importance especially when things have to be taken off of them.
I myself have been treatened by a passenger with violence for taking off a bottle of aftershave! A collegue was threatened not to be seen in town on another occasion, yet we were trying to be as understanding as possible. Do security staff deserve to be physically threatened, shouted at, or treated like dirt? No. Security take alot of stick, and needlessly too. My policy when I worked there, like many collegues too, if you had to take something off a passenger, I would explain in a nice way why it had to be taken, and often, if the matter taken in question was able to be retrieved, we would help by keeping stuff back to be picked up either by relatives, or on the passengers return. We did our best for passengers. Plus we would use discression. You do not make OAP’s struggle to take off shoes! We used common sense. All this new scrutiny is just making it even more difficult to do the job now. It is the DFT and CAA you need to speak to.
My advise to all passengers, play it safe and make your journey as painless as possible. Anything you are unsure about, check.
I can speak for many security staff here, as much as you do not like stuff been taken from you, we did not like taking it.
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Ron
Are OAPs incapable of smuggling dangerous articles in their footwear? That just goes to show how absolutely ridiculous the whole process is. A complete and utter waste ot time and money.
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Phil,
I did say we we would use discression.
Been a while since I have worked at the airport, I know it has got alot tighter. But what would work, what would make everyone happy? No security?
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Although there are many complaints about local security arrangements, what seems to be forgotten is that clearing Guernsey Airport security, with its higher levels, takes no more than 10 minutes. For a reduced level elsewhere, it can take an hour or more.
If we can maintain stricter controls at a higher speed of processing, I’m fine with that, and say ‘well done’ to Guernsey Airport.
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Ron
I don’t know about no security whatsoever, but certainly a lot less than exists currently.
What happened to the good old days of the metal detector?
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Never fear Phil, I am not afflicted by this ‘constant fear’ you speak of.
I visited Kenya whilst tour companies were still not travelling there, have been to Israel & the Palestinian terretories twice and flew to Egypt a few days after a group of tourists had been sbot up.
Terrorists won’t stop me travelling and as you say the risks are statistically minimal but I still believe appropriate precautions are necessary. That’s not to say I agree with all of them but I personally don’t find them as big a deal as you evidently do.
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Interesting comments about politeness of security staff above. ‘Do you really know’ is probably better off out of the business as his contempt for the passenger is fairly clear. I travel globally and find the worst attitudes to be in the UK and Germany. In contrast many far east countries have very efficient and polite operations.
In the UK I have witnessed a blind man being made to go through the detector without his stick and three members of security staff laughing at him. It was disgusting. I told the supervisor who really could not have cared less and made it fairly clear that if I wished to persist then he would make my journey through the airport quite lengthy.
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Paul Le Page
It wouldn’t bother me if there was indeed much point to all these inconveniences. I’m willing to be converted if somebody can point me to the evidence whereby removing shoes, belts etc actually results in the seizure of dangerous articles / material.
It’s much like the scenario a few years ago when we all had to step through trays of disinfectant because of foot and mouth disease, yet shoes in our baggage were merrily being carried through without a problem. An absolute waste of time.
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Ron
So what you are saying is that every other airport in the UK (plus Jersey) is ignoring the directives of the DFT and CAA, while good ol’ Guernsey applies the maximum level of checks possible?
That is both riduculous and hard to believe. Seems more likely to me that the Airport Director is “covering his behind” by imposing the maximum level of checks possible, giving up all permitted discretion, and that the security staff have been ordered to follow that directive “from above”, which is fully understandable.
The question therefore is why the Airport Director deems it appropriate to apply a higher standard of checking than either Heathrow or Gatwick? There can be only three possible answers, which are (a) Guernsey is deliberately applying a far higher standard than is necessary, or (b) the other airports are ignoring the directives, or (c) Guernsey has simply not realised that there is discretion within the directives. So which is it?
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Re: Do You Really Know ? :
Group of 12 Spaniards at Stansted kept their toiletries in hand luggage at security recently, and caused a delay of nearly half an hour while they were all patted-down and their hand luggage TOTALLY examined.
I, as a regular traveller to and from Guernsey, and the other 100 people in the queue were made to feel like idiots by security staff as they paraded their “dangerous items” for us all to see.
Although I understand the need for people to carry out their jobs to the best of their ability, I (and many many others) believe that these type of checks are now redundant.
It’s getting to the point where if I were to do a really bad fart on an Aurigny flight to Gatwick in the future which caused the pilot to then land at Southampton to “clear the aircraft”, would the whole travelling public have to declare what we’ve eaten in the last 24 hours before being allowed to fly??
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David, I never said other airports are ignoring the diectives. I certainly do not believe any airport is ignoring the directives given by DFT, and would not even dream of suggesting it. I said ‘I suppose it is down to who’s running it, management’, which means in our case, Colin Le Ray, he makes the decisions how the directives are implemented.
The one to ask is Colin Le Ray, maybe he should respond and explain to everyone why Guernsey airport needs to be go by the book literally and impose as you stated, the maximum level of checks possible and why there is no consistancy between our airport and UK airports.
I think only our airport authorities can answer the questions. All I do know, our airport is always under scutiny from DFT and it’s DFT that make the directives.
I appolgise if I have said anything wrong, as an x member of security I have seen both sides of the coin and just trying to help.
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@ Do You Really Know
I am surprised by your comments about the travelling public most of whom are not as disgusting as you suggest.
I would add that it is also not nice to be frisked , at Guernsey airport, by someone who has just been for their fag break and stinks of BO and has bad breath from the cigarettes they smoke. It works both ways.
I travel through Guernsey Airport about three times a week and it is frustrating to have to remove your belt and shoes but it is only a minor inconvenience. i would rather have that happen than have someone try to hijack and blow up the plane.
Unfortunately we live in a world where extremists do not try to reason but try to impose their beliefs through violent acts.
i say pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq and let them fight among themselves. Too many western families have to suffer the loss of their loved ones in two wars which should never have happened. The British and the Russians hav been driven out of Afghanistan before and the US and British forces will be again so lets do it under our own terms.
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Ron
I agree. It would be very informative to hear from Colin Le Ray on this point.
Guernseasider
I couldn’t help laughing at your last paragraph. The chap sitting in front of me last week on the way back from Gatwick let one go which was so bad it could have brought the aircraft down on its own if passengers had been able to suddenly move to escape what emitted from him. Nearly as lethal as any explosive device!
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Airport security inconveniences millions of passengers a year. Each year it gets worse.
And the worst part is that the terrorists have won. They don’t need to have a bomb actually go off in a plane – they have already succeeded in making us frightened, authoritarian, and inconvenienced when we travel. We all pay more because of increased security checks and staffing; we waste more time; we can’t take friends we’re visiting a bottle of wine any more.
I even had security staff debating whether the pack of Guernsey butter I had was a “liquid, paste or gel”!
Every time we increase security, Bin Laden’s face lights up in a smile.
And despite it all, we’re not really safer. Anyone could smuggle on a ceramic knife, a garotte, or a hundred other weapons. Or, as someone else pointed out, get in a Trislander and reach forward to grab the pilot.
If we lived our lives by the mantra “better safe than sorry” we’d never go anywhere or do anything.
I have to go now and put my head in a bucket of water to cool off…
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If all these “security” measures are really based on risk and safety ….. how come you can still carry a rucksack on London Transport with no checks whatsoever ?
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We approached Colin Le Ray to ask if he or any other member of Guernsey Airport management would care to comment here, and he replied by saying he had ‘nothing to add’ to this discussion.
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The security at Guernsey Airport gets me every time. Something in me gets angry every time I have to remove my belt (not too bad, my boots (almost nearly fall over and delay people behind me) empty my handbag (okay) but then they proceed to look for extra pockets in the bag when there aren’t any!! I always feel as if I am the terrorist myself or do they make us feel that way? I have always said this (same as Dave) that I have travelled all over and I have never come across the over the top security here on leaving the Island. It is supposed to be random not stopping and bloody searching everybody. The way they look at you is creepy as well.
If they could just rein back an bit and make it one coherent process it would be okay in fact so come on Colin Le Ray do something. We would appreciate it.
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Toby
A very good point – I hadn’t thought of that. Likewise on a crowded passenger ferry.
Editor
No surprise at all. Another case of a senior civil servant forgetting that his job is to serve the public and not the other way around. Yet another “accountable” civil servant by the sounds of it.
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James, you got it in one. At the end of all this discussion, nothing is going to change, I’d say probably get worse, as DFT and CAA give more diretives for tighter security especially after that latest threats.
It is a shame Colin Le Ray will not add anything. There are two sides of the coin. Would be good to hear from the second side directly.
No one will ever be happy with security, but it is here to stay. James, he was spot on, we all are paying the price of what terrorists have done and will always pay for it.
Me, I’ll never would work in security again, and if I have to fly anywhere, everything goes in the hold.
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David, the ferry situation is even more laughable. As a car passenger, niether me nor my bags have been looked at.As a foot passenger, my bags have been xrayed and searched, I’ve gone through a metal detector and been patted down.
Based on current security measures I have concluded that, obviously, terrorists …..
Don’t drive cars ( I mean there have been the odd car bomb or 10… but they are isolated cases of course )
Don’t wear sandals ( can’t hide the explosives – THAT definitey wasn’t an isolated incident …)
Are deadly with nail clippers …. but totally unable to use actual knives handed to them by stewardesses …. and are unable physically to buy razor blades in Boots past security ..
Always carry powdered explosives ( usually in printer cartridges ) – except when they are carrying liquid explosives in fizzy drink bottles. No harm in covering all the bases …
Hide guns and knives and explosives in overcoats but not cardigans …. ( see also belts vs braces …. )
Use dummy laptops as explosive detonators but never mobile phones ( except for printer cartrige bombs of course … )
And of course never hide bombs in rucksacks and take them on trains …..
We can never be too vigilant, whatever the inconvenience ….. ( as long as it is logistically and economically practical …. )
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I hate flying with a vengeance and will only fly as far as the UK but I am more than happy with all the security checks that we go through, but having recently been through Guernsey and Gatwick I cannot believe the inconsistencies at each airport, in Guernsey they were quite fussy but in a group of 4 adults and 2 small children,only 3 adults were asked to remove their shoes and 1 adult to remove their belt.In Guernsey the pushchair was fine to go through, in Gatwick , off came the wheels and the pushchair was almost stripped down.Mum had to sip the babies milk, but no one found,( and I forgot it was there), a small bottle of handwash in my handbag. It are these things which I find strange. It must be an awful job manhandling people and their possessions but I can only see it getting worse, soon we will be asked to remove all our clothing,well that will be fun
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All these increased security measures due to the recent INK CARTRIDGE bomb discoveries will soon be redundant too.
The terrorists surely can’t keep making more …. Have you been to WH Smith recently and seen the PRICE of those things!???
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Re Toby’s comment, can someone explain why when I recently flew to New York on an American Airline we were issued with METAL CUTLERY for the in flight meal? Prior to boarding I saw a lady have her manicure set removed from her handbag and dumped in the security bin. A nail file is more dangerous that a full sized knife and fork?
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On the contrary David. Why should a senior civil servant waste his time (and taxpayers money) responding to the inane ramblings of the anonymous trolls who spend hours of their own work time posting on this ‘forum’?
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Dot Comma,
“On the contrary David. Why should a senior civil servant waste his time (and taxpayers money) responding to the inane ramblings of the anonymous trolls who spend hours of their own work time posting on this ‘forum’?”
Responding to the public is not a waste of time if things can be clarified and justified.
We are Tax payers so are entitled to question.
“Anonymous Trolls” from someone called Dot Comma LOL
I don’t post in “work time” so once again very quick to judge.
Back to the Airport theme.
Do you really know,
When you applied for the Job as Security at the airport did they not explain to you that you would have to deal with members of the public and that sometimes they can be a little awkward at times? If they did not then I fully back what you say.
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Donk, in answer, no they did not. No expaination about anything. But when I started in security, it was not as it is now. None of this liquid stuff going on. Staff and passengers both quite happy. All we had to look for was the basic threats.
Took off the odd pen knife or scissors, that was it. Security then was just a formilty, no problems really at all, in fact, i would say, you could have time to chat to passengers,it was not a bad job then. A lot more relaxed.
It has only been since the liquid ban came in place hell broke out. Laptops had to come out of bags, then the liquid testing, liquids in sealed bags which at one time passengers had to pay for, remember?? 100% shoes off, all belts etc. Nightmare. Glad I got out. It is an impossible job.
All these new rules has been a nightmare for both passengers and all airport staff, not just security.
I would never do the job again and whoever does the job, I sympathize with.
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Donk, one more thing to mention.
The security staff never got fair treatment from G4S management nor airport management. The staff get stick from all sides, management and passangers, very little support at all.
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Has anyone else noticed the small ad in the Press classifieds by a UK on line company advertising overnight delivery ink cartridges ?
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Dot Comma
What a bizarre post by you. Have you not worked out that the word “servant” is included in the term “civil servant” ? Civil “servants” are there to serve the taxpayer, not the other way around.
Our civil servants have forgotten that they are accountable. It seems to be one of the biggest problems of the Guernsey civil service.
And Al, re. your comment about cutlery, its a very interesting one. If there is a terrorist on my flight then I’d rather like some metal cutlery to arm myself with in an attempt to disable the terrorist. A plastic knife and fork which snaps when you cut into a piece of chicken is as much use as a chocolate fireguard, and I’ve yet to hear of a terrorist taking over a plane with a metal cutlery knife or fork – I doubt if they even register as “sharp”, so are hardly dangerous.
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Ron
I hear what your saying but we could go way back and say “things were different in the old days” but unfortunately times have changed and bombs in ink cartridges compared with sticks of dynamite push for different ways of working.
As to you receiving “grief” from all the pubic and management is two separate things. The public can’t be changed but management can (or should)
You might have been the guy that took my pen knife! I laugh about it still to this day as it was a 5 mill blade inside a keyring. I did “joke” that it would take me longer to kill someone with that then what the flight time is and the security officer lacked a sense of humour and suggested that I should be careful making those kind of comments….
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James and some others:
Some of the checks do seem crazy to you and I, however it is important to look at the bigger picture. If seemingly random, and strange objects are being checked and restricted this does make it harder for a person looking to secrete an item to get it on to an aeroplane.
As for grabbing the pilot of a trislander – why? To commit suicide?! Terrorists (the main reason for increased security) are aiming for mass casualty and maximum publicity. I doubt they’ve even heard of Alderney, let alone see the worth in grabbing the pilot to kill a couple of people.
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Truth Man
You miss the main point, which is why Guernsey imposes a far higher level of security than other UK airports. We still have not got the answer to that.
And in case you didn’t notice, the terrorists on 9/11 were totally committed to suicide. Survival was what they did NOT want. And Alderney is about 9 miles from Cap de la Hague nuclear power station…
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Last Tuesday, in Jersey airport, MY EIGHT YEAR OLD CHILD WAS FRISKED.
The same week, in Guernsey airport, my friend’s young child was frisked.
We shall not use air travel from now on unless in dire emergency – what mother would watch a strange man feel between their child’s legs in the name of security?
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Joanna
That is a difficult one.
If young children and the elderly were not searched as a matter of policy, then it would be a very obvious loophole for terrorists to exploit. It obviously needs to be handled very sensitively though.
The ultimate solution to all of this nonsense is “profiling”, which has been rejected on “political correctness” grounds as being racially unacceptable. Well, I’m sorry, but I find being blown out the sky to be rather unacceptable as well. I don’t care whether its politically correct to say it or not, but the hard facts, which are undisputable, is that men of Asian descent have made up very close to 100% of known terrorists over the past decade. We all suffer now because of the PC brigade, which is utter nonsense. There are times when political correctness simply needs to be overridden, i.e. when its in the interests of national security. The Americans will therefore undoubtedly be the first to adopt “profiling”, not being hamstrung by bureaucrats in Brussels.
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Joanna – how do react when the doctor touches your child’s skin? Are you gonna avoid the doctor ‘unless in dire emergency’ too?
Although I appreciate your concerns as a parent, the normal procedure, as most will know, is that males are checked by males, females by females.
Are you willing to jeopardize the security of the whole plane because of your ill-founded views on people just doing their job?
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Joanna – I am a parent of a young daughter but I cannot agree with you.
I’m pretty sure airport security staff are security checked to the same level as your child’s teachers and GP – yet I can’t imagine you have taken them out of school or refuse to send them to the doctor when they’re sick? David – good points.
Although I agree security staff should be as sensitive as possible they have a job to do and unfortunately fanatics who are hell bent on causing death and mayhem don’t care who they use.
One of the blights on humanity is the continuing use of children to further the nefarious aims of fanatics – take the use of child soldiers in places like the DR Congo for example. In other places, children are indoctrinated in the doctrines of hate from an extremely young age, like in the Israel/Palestinian conflict.
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Donk,
Times have changed. I left security over 3 years ago, just after the strke incident, so, probably not me that took whatever you had. Knives hardly ever got found, scissors quite often. I feel sorry for Joanna, fully understand what she is saying, when I was there, we’d only use a hand scanner to search children, we would never touch any!
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Joanna.
If you had any concerns about your child being touched then at the time you should have asked for the supervisor. All staff are required by law have to carry ID and this has to be clearly visible and full names are on those ID’s.
IF a hand scanner is used and bleeps then a more thorough search is needed , this HAS to be with the parents consent, if this consent is not given the situation is passed to the airline and it is then their decision whether you fly or not.
As for not flying anymore , well that’s your choice ….
Also please bear in mind that if the travel was last week ALL security measures were stepped up, Ok, YOU may not be a suicide bomber but IF you were then the safety of your family are hardly you prime concern…
All security staff have to pass necessary requirments of the Police.
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One thing I will add, which I think whoever is in charge should think about, the actual security area, was that a last minute thought when building the terminal? I think the termainal is such a waste of money, a waste of space within the building, cold in winter, roof leaks, but security, the area itself I reakon whoever designed it was having a bad hair day! There is no room to move, no room prior to entering to get ready, no tables or chairs entering the security zone (as I remember). It is straight in to the x-ray machines, and very little room to move, and in a rush hour, no room to gather your bits and pieces after the x-ray machines. The area is a wind trap when the outside doors are open, and in winter, quite nasty. I really believe the whole area should be re-designed making it friendly to passengers and easier for staff to do their job.
I do not remember the old security area in the old building, was that better? I liked the old building, cafe was better too where it was. But again, it’s gone, it will not change, the good old days are gone but I do believe a good design of the security zone is needed.
For example: If the entry point was bigger to accommodate tables and chairs, the one who checks the boarding cards could at least give the passengers a chance to remove stuff that could possibly cause problems.
Every morning there is a large que, this way, the ones who are ready go straight through while the others sort themselves out. As it is now, passengers get held up. Just an idea, but the area needs sorting.
Just not enough room to swing a cat!!!
The security area is as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Please re-think it for passengers and staff. Try for once asking the staff what they need too.
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David:
Is security in Guernsey airport higher? I don’t think it is. The checks I go though in Guernsey are almost identical to those in other UK airports (minus the armed police presence).
Re your last paragraph, suicide is what they want – whilst taking many people with them. Without the mass casualties or significant public impact their suicide would not achieve it’s aim.
Nonetheless, I totally take your point re the power plant! Therefore can I take that part of my previous post back?!
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Truth Man
Security in Guernsey may or may not be higher, but the level of checks is unequivocally higher. 100% removal of shoes and belts is higher than random checks of 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 carried out at other UK airports (and Jersey). Are passengers boarding a flight in Guernsey a higher risk generally than those boarding at Heathrow or Gatwick ? Of course not. If Gatwick is only checking 1 in 4 passengers’ shoes then that means 3 out of 4 passengers’ shoes are NOT being checked. If that is acceptable at Gatwick, why not Guernsey? Why the different approach? Why won’t Colin Le Ray tell us? It seems obvious to me that the reason is that he doesn’t have a logical response.
The bigger picture is that these extra checks locally require more staff, and each unnecessary extra member of staff is a waste of taxpayers’ money.
Put it another way. Would adopting random checks instead of 100% checks re belts and shoes make Guernsey a higher risk airport? Of course not, so it’s wasted money.
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It`s a joke. Why have any checks at all at Guernsey, Jersey or Alderney airports when I could very easily climb or walk through the airports boundaries and plant a bomb on any part of the Aprons, buildings or aircraft? Airport security is pointless if the runway and buildings are insecure.
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David:
Profiling is not the answer. In some risk management environments it is acceptable to subscribe to the theory that 80% of risk is contained in 20% of a particular area. However, when one is talking of such significant consequences it is absolutely essential to ensure you also cater for the other 80% of a particular area that hides the remaining 20%of risk.
Therefore, I am afraid, we must all be treated as if we were potential terrorists.
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Truth Man
But based on your argument if we are to all be treated as if we are terrorists, why are the other airports in the UK zone only doing random checks when we are carrying out 100% checks on belts and shoes? Nobody has yet managed to answer that question. Somebody locally is effectively saying that Guernsey needs tighter security than other UK airports, which is nonsense. If it has to be 100% checks for all airports then that’s fine. But that simply isn’t the case so why does Colin Le Ray impose it here? Sorry, but his unwillingness to answer the question speaks volumes.
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Truth Man
Perfectly put.
Ray,
the printer cartridge company is a Jersey one and not UK as you stated.
To answer one other thing here , with my personal point of view, and my view only reducing the staffing levels is not an option, as with many other parts of the airport you have to have a minimum cover to comply with the Dept of Transport, without that minimum number the airport would have to shut, the situation is very similar to the airport fire fighters regarding staffing levels.
Like Ron , and someone else on here I am also an “ex” security member but am not going to comment on anything more and like everyone else who has posted , have my own views.
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Just as a footnote you may wish to read this – there is NO hope if Government officials are such idiots
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2010/11/07/terror-chief-tries-to-board-plane-with-banned-liquids-115875-22697823/
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David:
Could we reverse the thrust of this? The question for me, based on your assertion that UK airports do not check all shoes etc, should be why security is so poor there. It seems to me that in Guernsey we have got it quite right this time.
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Truth Man
I’m not saying that you are wrong there, my question was all about why Guernsey is operating to higher standards than are being applied elsewhere. If the same standards as Guernsey applies were to be applied elsewhere then I wouldn’t really have a problem. But they aren’t.
Remarkably, I flew out of Guernsey on the red-eye yesterday morning. Belts all had to be removed but NOT shoes. This seems to be clear change of policy. Colin Le Ray has clearly taken notice.
Although it was frustrating to have my bag searched by a member of staff who “wanted to check whether my jar of tablets contained liquids”. If the x-Ray system can’t tell the difference between a jar of large tablets and a jar of liquid then it’s hard to have any confidence in the whole process!
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David.
just an observation , if you have tablets with you its probably best to put them with your “liquids” , if they are of a sensitive nature then just mention you have tablets in there, depending on what else is in the bag the x-ray may just show a container and not the contents of that container, another reason why laptops have to be taken out.
Purely an observation from my time on duty
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Toady
Yes – that makes sense and will do in future !
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If you got medication you need to take on the plane with you, get a doctors letter and present it at security. No security officer can then argue with you.
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