‘Closing Griffin’s will force me onto benefit’
Tuesday 9th November 2010, 2:30PM GMT.
John Savident says his part-time job at Griffin’s Grotto keeps him off benefit and takes his mind off his dialysis treatments. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1043943)
A KIDNEY patient fears he will lose his job and end up on long-term benefits if Griffin’s Grotto closes.
John Savident, 52, has suffered with a kidney condition since childhood, and has had regular dialysis for the last 11 years.
He has worked for four years for Griffin’s Grotto, which he said was his perfect job.
However, the future of the St Saviour’s gift shop is now in doubt following confusion over the use of the building.
A retrospective planning application for the site to be used a shop was turned down last month.
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‘the future of the St Saviour’s gift shop is now in doubt following confusion over the use of the building’. This about sums up the ‘States of Guernsey’, CONFUSED!!! 4 years this shop been here as Griffin’s Grotto and suddenlt they are confused. What a bunch 1st class pratts!
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What an absolute disgrace, the States og Guernsey as a whole should be ashamed of themselves …. this is clearly a case of joined up government … not
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The laws are clearly there not to represent the needs of the people but to keep people in their place.
This is never clearer than on an island like ours where regulations, their creators and those who must follow them are so close to each other. It is very easy to see which laws are not actually serving the public.
Everyone can say “we do not want this shop to close, nor for people to lose their livelihood, nor for the property to be used for other noisier purposes.” But those who uphold the laws they have made will insist that it must be so. Because it’s the law.
Presumably we must all be saved from ourselves and our foolish decisions which wiser (ie more powerful) heads can make for us for benefits which they will also tell us.
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…..wrong as it all appears I do not think by dealing the sympathy card many cold bureaucratic hearts are going to be touched.
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Oh Archie, taken in by the GEP spin. The only confusion is at the Press, the IDC have stated quite clearly the shop is illegal. No confusion there.
And as for this ridiculously emotive article, the mind boggles. Oh right, some ill bloke works there 10 hours a week, the LAW shouldn’t apply in this case obviously! Yet again, pointless blatant States bashing. When are you running for the States Mr Digard?
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Regardless of whether you think that Griffins Grotto should close or stay open, surely whether or not they employ someone on dialysis can’t affect it?
Or perhaps we should grant them indemnity from the law for as long as they employ someone with a serious medical problem who would struggle to get a job elsewhere. Or perhaps someone who has been long term unemployed. Should this apply to other laws? Its totally unworkable. Its just the Press with nothing better to do.
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So, GP, you’re saying that because someone has an illness that the law shouldn’t be applied? Is this not like saying that I should be let off a drink driving charge because I’m sick? Whilst I have my sympathies for Mr. Savident, the law is still the law. If the law didn’t apply because of a sympathetic case then it wouldn’t be called the “law”, it would be called a “general guideline which need not apply under particular circumstances”.
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Well it’s about time that Guernsey people should demand the name of the person who first suggested the closure of the shop.
One can just not believe it came out of the blue in a kind of ‘EN_MASSE’ attitude.
We should demand and get the culprit in this dastardly suggestion.
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Not wishing to sound insensitive, but is this the ONLY location Mr Savident can work?! What ridiculous spin from the Press. It’s a blatant attempt, once more, to impress readers by having an indirect bash at the States
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The Truth
ok, right or wrong the shop’s usage maybe, under States of Guernsey law, but the point is why has it taken 4 years for the States to do anything? Why is this shop under threat of closure now??? This is what makes no sence to me. It makes no sence to evict the business.
To me, the law have been too too slow to sort this out and unjust in trying to enforce this law now. In fairness, Griffins Grotto, should have had this pointed out, what the law was about the shop/premesis, before they moved their business to it. Do you not agree??
As for the matter of so called spin, in defence of GP, ill or not, why should anyone lose their jobs when in my mind, it is the States at fault for not acting when they should have which was four years ago. That was the time to jump, not now.
Everyone got to say what they think, but to me it is black and white, in the case, it has been left far too long. Bad mistake by the States, and again, it is someone else who got to suffer for the mistake, in this case, a whole family business.
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@Archie: so you’re saying that if someone broke the law, say stealing, that after 4 years they should just be let off the hook? The law is definitive for a reason, because otherwise the application of the law would be unjust. In this case it would be unjust to let them off the hook for the reason that the law applied to everyone else, but not them because of the way you feel about this specific scenario? If you put aside emotions you’ll realise that this case is very black and white disregarding what you feel is right or wrong.
What is unjust here is some poor fellow has to lose his job over it, but that’s not the fault of the States (it’s a side effect from the decision of the States), it’s just a shame the GP decided to place the focus on Mr. Savident as opposed to the problem at hand. Yes, the States have taken a long time about it, but if they didn’t enforce the law then if this case were to happen again the victim would be saying “but what about the case with Mr. Savident, you let them get away with it!” and then all hell breaks loose.
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In reference to Griffins Grotto, what is wrong with the States of Guernsey. First of all it was the bowel screening, now Griffins Grotto. I have lived in St.Saviours parish since the age of 4, i grew up with Le Poidevins who ran the bakery which was there well before I was born, they sold bread and cakes, then when the bakery closed it was Le Tricoteur which sold Guernseys and cardigans, now it’s Griifins Grotto which sells cards etc. What is wrong with the States of Guernsey, our island is being run by nimnobs. People fought in both world wars so we could have freedom of speech, its now like living with the Germans, you cant do this, you cant do that, for Gods sakes, its only a shop!!! And for all these stupid people who say rules are rules, would they be saying rules are rules if they wanted to something done to their property or open a business somewhere and where told no. Would they accept it??? Dream on!!! I don’t think so!! Wise up the whole lot of you and grow up. We are Guernsey people and Guernsey should be run by Guernsey people, not by a load of hypocrites. They allow all the ridiculous buildings along the front for example and they have the damn nerve to talk about heritage, when they have taken most of the heritage out of Guernsey. The front, the market, the court, housing, Heritage, that’s a joke. They allow the rich here to ruin our island. Our island was a lovely island until they allowed all the rich here to ruin it.
The shop is handy for old people who live around there. Staff is always friendly, and that poor man could lose his job. The States will keep all the lazy ones, unmarried mothers and unemployed who have been out of work for years, but will not support an ill man who wants to work and stay off benefit. How right is that.
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Who knows which party has rights, but this I will say.
“If you want other to be happy, practice compassion”
It YOU want to be happy, practice compassion”
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To all you people trotting out your smug lines of “the law’s the law and therefore it must be applied”…
Can you just ask yourself for one tiny moment who precisely this “Law” is serving?
I do believe that we must all follow all laws, and not just the ones we agree with. But those laws Must make sense, not just exist for the sake of bureaucracy.
This particular ruling Does Not Make Sense. It serves no one, and in fact destroys something good. All it needs is for the premises to be rezoned. There are no good reasons why it should not be and a lot why it should.
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Toto,
You would not let someone steal off you knowingly for 4 years would you? If you knew anyone was stealing from you, you’d pounce. Law is the law, i agree, but in this case I am 100% sute the ‘law’ was broken unknowingly. I am also 100% sure if the family had of known of the problems with the law of usage, they would have not set up there. No sensible business would have.
My point is the lenght of time it took. Like you use stealing as an example and i am in no doubt if I took money off you, you’d have me in court quick enough, you would not wait 4 years to make up your mind about it, surely, the States should have jumped quick too.
Who ever is in charge of this in the States, he/she should hold their hands up and admit for being wrong in dealing with this.
There is a space next door to the Griffins Grotto laying vacant where another business could work from. Been vacant for as long as I can remember. I am sorry to say it makes me wonder if someone else is behind this who wants to use the whole building, who is using the law to get Griffins Grotto out. Just seems wrong to use the law when it suits as it seems in this case.
Law is law, cannot argue that, but you cannot use it when you feel like it.
Be honest, if it was your business, how would you feel after running quite happily for years, then getting this thrown at you?
There must be a law where it’s usage can be changed, so why cant the law be used to help them?
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I bet Mr Savident will not get as much from the states as all the slackers who work the benefits system. This story shows the effect that a poorly made decision can have on decent honest hard working people who would rather take pride in earning their own keep and not rely on others to pay for their upkeep, despite having genuine illnesses, not like some so called “back problems” who claim benefits yet it’s amazing how many handle heavy suitcases etc so well wen they’re off on their jollys. Small local shops like these help keep people off benefits especially those who would otherwise be rejected by the “imported” larger companies who also bring with them a sterile attitude and expect staff to work 24/7, treating them like robots without a thought for their quality of life outside of their jobs, shops so large that u lose the typical small family run local friendly kind of service that this Island used to be so well known for. I.e the Friquet …. A lovely place yes … But not for the size of Guernsey… It’s too imposing and takes away the traditional feel of Guernsey shops …..then there’s the Market ….. What market??? That was a great shame even England has traditional markets! Oh and another English trait imported to our Shores taking away our identity and Island way of life. it seems Christmas is cancelled in all non local retail shops with most opening throughout the holiday period, apparently,including the 2 bank holidays after Christmas and even New Years Day! Why? …so those with no jobs, or nothing better to do can enjoy THEIR Christmas time together while everyone else has to eat cold Turkey? well…. Sorry, but if u simply Can not wait til the holidays are over to hit the shops then don’t expect too much friendly service on days which should be an optional working day not a forced one …. for OBVIOUS reasons! Any way slightly ranting on there so back to the relivant subject.
There has been a shop there for as long as i can remember including the Gift Shack that was run previous to Griffins Grotto being there, by the Tricotour so why the states haven’t granted a change of use so another shop can continue trading in an area that has always been used as a shop is beyond me. They aren’t trading from the 2 industrial units either side of the shop unit which remain empty and everyone i have spoken to is in full support of keeping this lovely little shop alive as there aren’t many left due to alot of premises being too expensive for smaller businesses to afford.
I hope Griffins Grotto wins it’s fight and it’s about time people stood up and realised this Island is no longer occupied …… Although saying that if Germany had won the war we may have been living In a perfect holiday destination and not some floating mass of banks, empty offices, unwanted greenhouses and disused industrial sheds. Sorry just sayin :-)
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Archie:
“I am also 100% sure if the family had of known of the problems with the law of usage, they would have not set up there. No sensible business would have.”
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.
“you would not wait 4 years to make up your mind about it”
I doubt they spent 4 years clasping their chin with their forefinger and thumb expressing that ‘hmmm’ sound in a sotto voce manner.
“Who ever is in charge of this in the States, he/she should hold their hands up and admit for being wrong in dealing with this.”
Well, that’s not a clear line. Fact is, unfortunately the law was being broken, unknown to the owners or not. The States may have finally caught up, but as I say, time doesn’t rectify a problem regardless of who was right and who was wrong. The problem is still a problem.
“Be honest, if it was your business, how would you feel after running quite happily for years, then getting this thrown at you?”
I’d be an angry badger.
“100% sure the ‘law’ was broken unknowingly”
So you’re the owner? ;)
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Its pathetic!! All we have heard for the past couple of years is doom and gloom about shops haveing to close here and close there!! Now a perfectly viable business is being shut down?? States = Numpties!
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The fact that this hit the headlines was that Griffiths grotto was willing to employ someone with a disability with age against them. You guys tell me exactly with other employer would give him a job tomorrow at the hours that suit him. None exactly. The reason there was a shop here in the past was they used the shop to sell the produce they made. So why can someone not come up with an idea or locate someone who requires workspace and their produce sold in the shop. Surely this should then solve the problem! No…or its this too clear cut for the states…
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Toto, I am not the owner. (Lol)
One final word about this matter from me, at least.
I wish Griffins Grotto are shown compassion, and as Mrs Meat said above, hope the States will rezone the area and help the family in question find a resolve.
I think the States, for neglecting the issue a long time back, should help Griffin Grotto, it’s the least they could do.
Me, I like going to Griffins Grotto and hope it does not close.
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@ The truth….you are no doubt another states employee trying to defend a colleague who has made an error. What you have to remember is who is it harming being there? And, how pathetic will it be for the states to see them close. Beaurocratic rot…it’s just a little gift shop !!! Leave them alone
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Its getting to be like being under the jack-boot. The sooner some of these States members go the better. This has to be the worst bunch ever – only a handful seem to really work for the good of the Island, have they nothing better to do than nit-pick. Would be interesting to know how many of the States are actually Guernsey people – not many I suppose. Probably why they are not that interested in keeping our Island the lovely place that it used to be and helping the Guernsey people. They are only interested in getting the wealthy in and building ugly steel and glass buildings to dominate the sky line. What is wrong with Griffins Grotto – its a shop run by a hard working Guernsey family trying to make a living (which is hard enough in this day and age). As for the recent voting – blooming old artefacts storage instead of bowel screening – dont get me going on that one – it is absolutely disgraceful. It isn’t as if these artefacts are even on show, they are stored away where no one ever sees them and that is probably where they will remain. A better idea perhaps there is room there for some of the stuffy old States to be stored there as well. We wouldn’t miss their stupid nit-picking and so called ideas. I have certainly made a note of those deputies who voted against and wont be voting for them at the next election. Deputy Fallaize seems to be the only one interested in the Island?
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Excellent article on Fred in the shed type problems by Deputy Graham Guille in today’s Press
Guille for Chief Minister
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DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.
TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned.
ANARCHY: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbours will kill you and take your cows.
MILITARIANISM: You have two cows. the government takes both and drafts you.
CHINESE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You are made to take care of them, the government takes all the milk
STATES OF GUERNSEY: You have two cows. You have to kill them because you do not have the proper permission to use your field for your cows to graze in.
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Once again the Environment Dept of the States of Guernsey have shown what a load of idiots they are. Is nobody in charge there? People are loosing their jobs, businesses are going under and they want to close a little shop due to some ridiculous law! Hope some of them loose their jobs when they States make some civil servants reduntant to save costs!!
A lot of you are right this Island has so many useless petty laws but they CAN be changed if we all stand up and shout it and contact our local deputies who are supposed to listen to the people who elected them. Isn’t it time the States really looked at the sunday trading laws as well, some of them applied 20 or 30 years ago but not now. You try telling people who come here for the weekend about the Friquet Centre not being allowed to sell cards or guess what WELLIES on Sunday. They think we are crazy and stupid and not quaint. Come on that must be the most ridiculous law ever. You can get a drink on Sunday but not buy a pair of wellies to do the gardening.
LEAVE GRIFFINS GROTO ALONE AND DO NOT PUT PEOPLE OUT OF WORK. WE ALL SUPPORT YOU.
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Archie
You forgot one
ARNALDISM: You have two cows.That is one more than you need and the second cow can only have been acquired via the forced hard labour of the honest but downtrodden masses, and retained using a myriad of paperless intercontinental hocus-pocus tax agreements.You have to give one to Murphy who will distribute it to the poor
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What on earth is wrong with these people who think they are so important,do they realise just what we really think of them.Put their names up on the shout so that we can see who and WHAT we are putting up with.After all,its our money thats paying their wages,so we have the right to know why its being spent on such a load of !! It makes one wonder what the real reasons are for such apparent arrogance.
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@ Ray – haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha
And where is Arnald when you need the voice of non-reason? The board is getting boring without his brand of crazy.
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It will be very interesting indeed to see the outcome of the retrospective application to dump builders waste at Admiral Park, much to the detriment of the near neighbours
The little old lady with the new fence,the A- Board fiasco and more recently the Griffins Grotto problem are all relatively small Guernsey people…. easy to brush aside
Now we have a big company,an associate of Comprop,asking a favour
Watch this space !
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I wonder if there is comeback on the original searches for the purchase, as surely that must have detailed the category of this building(s) to then know what could and could not be done there. I expect it is a case of ignorance is not an excuse as with any thing in law.
It is a shame in a way that actual manufacture production space is not being used for that purpose at this location and now it is soley operating as a shop (from what I can see), of which there are tons of locations sitting vacant, but there are not tons of space like this one.
Perhaps the location could be dual zoned so that it could stay a shop but also should the remaining parts of the building be needed to actually manufacture stuff they could.
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i still think they are trying to divert our attension with this stupidity of late,dont know if anyone else has noticed but airport job gone up by 1 mill already and its not even started yet.
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How much was the terminal over budget??
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Guern Abroad, The site is split into 3 units, the shop being one unit and the 2 industrial units either side which , funnily enough, remain empty. (i assume because as mentioned in an earlier post on another article relative to this one, the cost of exporting out of the islands means there is no demand for this “manufacturing” usage in fact, i read somewhere either on Griffins Grotto facebook page or one of the other comments on this site that there are 19 light industrial units laying empty in the island because no one wants them!. This is a small shop, now very rare in Guernsey, and it’s not doing anyone any harm plus everyone that i have discussed this with WANTS it there including the surrounding residents, (another article in the press pertaining to this famlies plight). there are too mmany large non local companies squashing the smaller local ones and turning Guernsey into a floating mass of finance companies and common “same old same old” high street stores that can be found anywhere on the mainland where it’s big enough to accommodate such large outlets. It’s about time Guernsey Goverment started looking after its own! As also explained somewhere,You wouldn’t expect the part of the premises that has been a shop since 1940 not have permission to be there. :)
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