Tax hike could boost tobacco black market, retailer warns
Monday 15th November 2010, 1:00PM GMT.
INCREASING duty on cigarettes could increase black market sales, one retailer has said.
Paperbox proprietor Phillip Morgan said proposals to put 14p on a packet of 20 cigarettes would be counter-productive for the government, as people would seek to avoid the duty.
‘The increase is not as bad as last year. However, like the UK and Ireland, we are joining the ranks of the highest-priced cigarettes in Europe and they have the highest incidence of smuggling and illegal sales.
‘There is a point where everyone is happy to pay up to about 20% in tax but after that people try and avoid it,’ he said.
Steve Taylor (pictured), landlord of the Cock and Bull, thought most public houses would be able to absorb the costs.
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Or….. people could seek to avoid the duty by quitting.
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Cigarettes serve only two purposes. (1)they kill human beings in the most terrible way and (2)they put money into the pockets of tobacco growers/ manufactures/shareholders. Face it. They serve no other purpose, period. Therefore there should be no limit on how high the price of cigarettes should go. Furthermore, cigarettes should not be visibly ‘on sale’ anywhere. Or, as WIL said in his post ‘ people can quit’.
I smoked for 57 years. For about a year I thought daily about becoming a non-smoker. And I became a non smoker a few months ago at age 72. It was easy. Oh how I wish I had done it 50 years ago! I feel fantastic! I am elated beyond description! I am the cow ( bull) that jumped over the moon! I experienced no pain, no ‘living-hell’ and no withdrawal symptons! And I have not wanted a cigarette since. Most importantly, I know I will never smoke again, would not even dream of it, and that initself is exciting!
For readers possible interest, I did not use any of the usual ‘aids’ such as the ‘patch’ ‘gum’ etc. Why not? Because after doing my research ( librarys and internet) I discovered that every one of these so-called ‘aids’ to ‘quitting’ – and including any medication that a doctor prescribes for ‘quitting’- is either addictive in itself, or has side effects that in turn will make you ill. In fact all this ‘stuff’ is just another way for the pharmecutical industry to make money, and they are making multi multi billions out of human misery ( read ‘Death By Prescription). But to get to my point….I became a non-smoker by reading Alan Carr’s slim book ‘The Easy Way To Stop Smoking’. I read it through once, then read it again this time following it’s instructions. Carr’s method is psychological. It’s fantastic! It’s common sense! It works! And even better, this book will likely be available from your lending library. If not, insist they get it in for you. After one reading of it, you’ll also want to own your own copy. It’s a low-cost paper-back available at most book stores or used/new on-line, and it’s worth it’s weight in gold!! So to heck with dying the most awful painfull death and spending all your pocket money achieving it. Love yourself instead! Become a non-smoker now! For your healths sake go get the book. It works!
ps: I promise you I am in no way connected to the book/author.publisher etc. I do not make any money from this. I simply find it disgusting that ‘commerce’ in Guernsey and around the world deliberately gets us all ‘hooked’ and then kils us with the stuff, and I want to help stop some of it if I can by encouraging every current smoker to know about this easy way to stop smoking. Thank you.
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Well said Wil
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This is a general question to with smoking.
What percentage in tax goes to the government on a packet of cigarettes?
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Expat80
What a load of tripe – some of actually ENJOY smoking, that’s the purpose that it serves for me and many others.
As the old saying goes, “there’s nothing worse than a reformed smoker”
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@Archie. I don’t know exact figures but do know that most of what you pay on a packet of cigarettes is taxation. When I smoked, my cigarettes were less than half price through the apparently lucrative duty-free at the airport. So that begs the question – what’s this about a supposed illegal market kicking in after we reach the 20% tax tipping point? We went past that decades ago!
Congratulations to Expat80. I did exactly the same. That is, I read Allen Carr’s ‘Easyway’ book and the solution was right there. I can highly recommend this book to all smokers and to anyone else who wants to understand nicotine addiction. I honestly was very sceptical before starting to read it, but within a few days had my head around the problem and was finally free!
Putting up the price of tobacco has no effect on a smoker’s compulsion to smoke. I cursed every increase from back when I started and a pack went over the 50p barrier, right up to recently going beyond a fiver. Yet none of those hikes made me leave the shop empty-handed or gave the slightest hint of a leg-up out of the nicotine trap.
Likewise, for 25+ years, every ‘no smoking day’ saw me walk beneath that banner in Smith Street puffing away more than ever. It really is a futile campaign because you just can’t tackle an addiction by trying to induce guilt about it; especially when you are dealing with a stubborn guernseyman. Unfortunately ‘No car’ days have the same effect on most commuters ;-)
@Phil. I used to think that way too!
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Not tripe at all, Phil, but the moving testimony of someone who has been hooked on this noxious, foul, deadly product for most of his life and who, in his later years, is able to see the toll it has taken on his health.
Carry on enjoying killing yourself if you like. I want to see more steps taken to discourage the filthy habit – not for your benefit but for all those who want to quit smoking but are addicted to this awful killer substance.
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As a smoker of the occasional Cuban cigar I will happily support Phil’s point.
I can categorically say the reason I smoke cigars is because I enjoy it. For me, smoking a cigar with some friends in an appropriate setting is a relaxing, sociable experience.
Given that I probably smoke a cigar about once or twice a year I am certainly not addicted, and I doubt that my cigar smoking has shortened my lifespan considerably or sent tobacco company executives on too many fancy holidays.
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@Martino – As a very occasional smoker I personally don’t have a problem with increasing tobacco duty – it doesn’t hit my wallet particularly hard and I’m prepared to pay the extra. I personally don’t think it will make a great deal of difference to addicts though – addiction by its very nature is irrational and I doubt many people will quit simply because it costs more. It may discourage people from starting though, which I would agree is a good thing, hence my lack of objection. For the same reason I also don’t have a problem with stopping “in your face” advertising in shops either – again, anything to help.
There are limits though and although I fully support regulation, what I do have a problem with is those who think tobacco should be banned entirely, or that it is somehow “evil” and without any merit whatsoever. In my experience, smoking in moderation can be a pleasurable activity – just like drinking alcohol and eating chocolate. All of them though, if abused or used excessively, can cause significant health problems but this is no reason to ban them.
Although I’ve never been hooked on smoking, I was once hooked on gambling (thank God no longer) so I know something of the nature of addiction. It may surprise you however to learn that, although I dislike the gambling industry intensely, I would not want to see it banned. Heavily regulated yes, banned no. That is the same view I hold with tobacco. Why should those who can control their intake be penalised? Education, regulation and protection of the vulnerable is the key, not prohibition.
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Phil
Expat80 is spot on with everything he says apart from the increase in price.
I dont believe anybody smokes because they enjoy it, its the addiction and craving for the next one (relief) that gives the pleasure i.e. just to feel “normal” again.
I have also read the book but like a prat started again 7 months later.
There is a sentence in there which says something along the lines of “if the only reason we smoked was for enjoyment you`d never smoke another fag again” think about it, it makes perfect sense.
I would also advise anyone wishing to give up have a read of this book.
I will be reading it again soon:).
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Martino
I’m glad Paul has stated that he too enjoys smoking, there are plenty of others who feel the same. It is therefore clear that Expat80′s assertion was wholly incorrect. How you fail to understand that argument is beyond me, you haven’t been smoking something that you shouldn’t have, have you??
It doesn’t surprise me that you seek to impose your will on others, you’ve demonstrated that before I seem to recall. People who claim to know what’s best for me are the last people that I’d ever listen to.
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@Phil & @Paul LePage: No offense intended, but another ‘saying’ is “there are none so blind as those who will not see” ( or something like that). Anyways, it’s a free world gentlemen, even those who want to commit suicide can do so, and that is exactly what you are doing by smoking tobacco in any way shape or form. But I really wish you wouldn’t, I really do, even though I can understand how you feel. Nevertheless I guarantee that you are mistaken, and you are not ‘enjoying’ it, you are simply ‘hooked’. How could you enjoy sucking 4000 noxious killer chemicals into your body with each lungful of smoke you inhale? 4000 chemicals from each cigarette! How could you ‘enjoy’, how could anyone ‘enjoy’ doing that!? It’s poison that you are putting into your lungs and into the rest of your body. Believe it, you will want to be a non-smoker one day. Make a note of ‘The Easy Way To Stop Smoking’ by Allen Carr so that when that day arrives you can go to the library and get a copy, but please don’t leave it too late.
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Cheers @Townie2, so glad to hear you got the book and became a non-smoker too, you ahev done yourself and your family a huge favour ….and well said @ Martino, I’ll back you all the way because there is no reason on earth why anyone should end their lovely life by ‘smoking’ killer tobacco. What about making the island ‘Smoke Free’? Life is too precious not to do so…..
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Phil Well said!! It is a choice to smoke or not, if smokers want to kill themselves by smoking let them! we all know the risks! I am a smoker and it is true that there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker.
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Expat80 – I would dispute that my “one or two a year” cigar smoking is the equivalent of committing suicide. That level of smoking is counted so low risk that even some insurance companies consider me a non-smoker.
I probably inhale more noxious fumes from car engines than I ever will from a cigar!
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Sorry bcb but that’s simply nonsense. Yes, like alcohol, smoking can be addictive but it doesn’t have to be.
Many men have a traditional “wedding cigar” and never smoke again; I also know a few friends who (like me) enjoy the occasional cigar and (like me) never smoke or crave tobacco at other times. Hardly the behaviour of people craving tobacco eh?
Just to prove the point, I haven’t smoked a cigar since last year.
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Phil
Your comment
“People who claim to know what’s best for me are the last people that I’d ever listen to”
So you’d ignore your Doctor then??
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bcb
You believe what you like, I (and Paul, and many others) smoke because we enjoy it. Some days I don’t smoke at all, some days I smoke maybe 2 or 3 cigarettes, some days 10 or 15.
expat80
Your “committing suicide” claim is a bit far fetched don’t you think. Smokers do not all die smoking related deaths do they? And to be honest, I’d rather live 10 years less if it means that I can do what I like whilst I’m alive, and not become someone who preaches to others about what’s good for them. Not everyone wants to live for ever, particularly when the final years involve wheelchairs, colostomy bags, hearing aids etc etc.
Live fast die young is still quite a popular phrase you know.
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@Expat80: I too must be hooked on cigars then. Every full moon in mid-January I just feel a sudden urge to suckle on that sweet tobacco and delight my senses. Could you give me the number to the quit line to rid me of this dirty annual habit?
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Paul Le Page
With respect it is not nonsense. You hardly smoke at all so i dont see how you can say that with you not being addicted to smoking.
Maybe i should have been a bit clearer in what i was saying. I was talking about real smokers not the odd one or two once or twice a year and i would have thought you would see that?.
Paul when you are a real smoker you become an addict and the fag rules.
You try getting 100 random smokers to quit for 2 weeks and i bet most wont even try because they know they wouldnt be able to go without, and most of the ones that do give it a go would fail, the rest would be straight back on them after the 2 weeks is up craving for their fix. The one thing nearly all of them will have in common is that they wish they never started or that they could give up.
Now are you telling me that is a real choice? or is it the fag (addiction) calling the shots?.
Be honest how many people that do smoke have one as rarely as you do? not many i bet.
Phil
If you smoke because you enjoy it and can stop at any time then great for you.
But i know a good few people that smoke and say the same things as you do, they are deluded and deep down they know it.
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Dave Haslam
Yes, quite regularly in fact. Normally when the subjects of smoking, drinking, diet etc crop up.
If everyone took their doctor’s advice we’d be an island of non-smoking, moderate drinking, slim, fit individuals. Take a look around you, what do you see???
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@bcb: every success to you with your second reading of ‘The Easy Way To Stop Smoking’ by Allen Carr.This time you will succeed because you want to.
@Stevo: you say there is nothing worse than a reformed smoker? How would you know? You are not reformed? Try it. It’s great!!
@PLP: don’t you get it? Pollution going into your beautiful one-time lungs from killer car engines? From killer chimney smoke? From killer back yard burns. From your killer cigars? It all adds up. Please stop now, while you still can.
@Phil: Oh Phil, Phil, Phil. I just cannot believe you said what you did in your post. It made me chuckle. And it made me sad. If indeed you would, as you said, sooner die ten years younger just so you can suck on a ‘chemical stick’ then you must be very young or very foolish or both. And don’t forget that with your smoking, the five or ten years before you die will indeed be spent on the colostomy bags and wheelchairs etc that you mentioned. The vast majority of smokers do in fact die a smoking related death, often with those plastic pipes up their nostrils which in turn are conected to an oxygen tank on wheels that they are forced to pull around with them, poor souls. So please stop howling at the moon, it will get you nowhere. Visiting your nearest library/bookstore will.
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bcb – thanks for clarifying your post however with respect I think I was entitled to take your post at face value – as Phil also did, it would seem.
In my further defence I was not denying (and never have if you read my posts) the addictive properties of tobacco. I was simply stating the fact that some people can ENJOY smoking on an occasional basis and not become addicted – the same as not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic. Your post actually succeeds quite nicely in reinforcing my point by suggesting in your own words that I am not a “real” smoker. What is a “real” smoker exactly? Surely a smoker is simply someone who smokes? It’s like saying what is a “real” drinker? Is it someone who enjoys the odd glass of wine, or a 10 pint a day alcoholic?
My argument with the views of people like Expat80 (and to a degree yourself) is that they are so blinkered by their own experiences that they simply cannot accept the fact that tobacco can be enjoyed in moderation without a resultant addiction – they would rather ban tobacco completely. Although (as I’ve said) I agree totally with heavy regulation, I simply cannot accept prohibition is a solution in a free society.
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I don’t seek to impose my will on others Phil (on a personal level I don’t care what you do as long as you don’t blow your second hand smoke at me or leave your filthy butts where I can see them). However, in an ideal world I would like to see the state (States) impose its will by banning all tobacco products. This is not going to happen in a hurry, I accept that, so in the meantime there must be maximum encouragement and support for those who do want to quit – plus a raft of measures (including price hikes and a total display ban) to discourage new recruits.
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I smoke because I am addicted, no other reason. Tried many times to quit and never get past month 3. Causing me problems with my health and no doubt I have taken a few years off my life.
Been quitline etc, tried the lot, so not only am I being punished for not having the ability to quit with my health problems, I paying the government alot of dosh with taxes for it too.
I wish I could quit, but found it impossible.
Anyone in government got the cure for this addiction, let me know.
Just one question. Many people do manage to quit, so if everyone quit, how would the government make up for the loss of revenue on cigarette tax? Are the ones left smoking, payin for the ones that have quit???
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@ Phil: not trying to hog all the ‘post’ space here, but can you explain why you regularly ignore your Doctors advice when they advise you on anything to do with smoking, diet, and drinking ( I assume you mean drinking alcohol?)?
And hows about ignoring the following…in addition to the 4000 chemicals you suck into your body with each cigarette you smoke, you can now really live it up by putting a ton more chemicals into your body by seeking out and eating imported fruit and veggies from Mexico, especially those delicious so-called health giving advocados!!! It’s possible to do so because the Mexicans have been putting so many chemicals onto and into the fruit and vegetables that they grow and export that they have now succeeded in killing off all the bees in Mexico. Oh, yes, much of the water used for irrigation in Mexico is polluted too
Chemicals rule, eh?
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Expat80
The reason that I ignore some of the advice given to me by my doctor (or the “medical profession” in general) is because I do not wish to live in a sterile world where I cannot have a cigarette or a cigar, become concerned about eating Guernsey butter on my toast, limit myself to 21 units of alcohol per week etc etc
This for me is preferable to living a life of constant worry or fear, which many many people seem to do (they obviously prefer that to enjoying themselves). I am neither very young nor very foolish, I can assure you of that. As the saying goes, “there’s no fool like an old fool”……….
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Not really bothered about what anyone has to say, i smoke, i enjoy it, i know the risks and i choose to continue. Why should i be told and preached at that it is bad and unhealthy? I know it is! I will give up when i am ready.
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Phil
Thanks for the frank reply
You forgot to add “Healthier, richer and with a higher quality of life” to your list though.
To that end its my beleif that the bulk (not all though)of people who would urge you to quit smoking, only do it because they have your best interests at heart rather than imposing their will on you!
Although having been a “nagged-at” smoker in the past, I completely understand the questioning of others motivations towards getting you to stop.
As for reformed ex-smokers, can you blame them for telling you how green the grass is on the other side from time to time??
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@Expat80 Can you stop pushing your views down people’s throat. You’ve said the same things over and over again. It’s boring.
Yes, smoking is bad bla bla bla, but if I want to jolly well smoke, I will. That’s my choice. Yes, I’m addicted and find it hard to give up, but when that day comes that I want to give up, then I’ll do it. At the moment, I don’t want to. I know what its doing, but I don’t want to stop. Crazy nicotine obsessed person here!
Right, I’m off for a fag… :-)
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Phil’s got a point – I respect my doctor and the medical profession however if we all listened to everything the “experts” said, we’d be in a cocoon of paranoia – not to mention totally confused when the advise is constantly changing. Living with that level of fear also increases stress levels, which ironically enough is considered pretty bad for your health.
Since using sayings seems to be in vogue, one of my favourites that I consider appropriate for this discussion is “everything in moderation.”
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By the way it looks like everyone (including me) has miised the piont of the reported story?
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In these days of rising pension burdens on governments and pension funds why on earth are we putting so much effort into getting people to quit smoking?
As Phil says, he enjoys smoking. Chances are it’ll kill him early and society will benefit both from his tobacco duty now and save valuable pension money from his untimely demise.
Win win?
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I don’t smoke and I don’t mind other people smoking as long as its not in my presence. It is someone’s choice whether they smoke or not.
I do think a tax hike on tobacco is a great idea. It will generate extra revenue and may act as a deterrent to stop others smoking because of the cost. If people are caught smuggling or trading on the black market there should be a heavy fine.
I also like a beer now and then and do not have a problem with the increase in taxation on alchohol either. Just incase anyone comes back at me with that one.
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Dave Haslam
It’s all about personal choice though isn’t it? I don’t suggest to fat people that they go on a diet, or tell heavy drinkers to drink less, or advise pasty looking people to get a good steak inside them etc etc.
I’m happy living the way I live, quite how some people feel able to tell me that I’m not is beyond me.
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I said a thousand times that I enjoyed smoking and for most of my smoking days, actually believed that too. Now all withdrawal has gone it’s so clear to see that it was never enjoyable, all I ever did was satisfy the craving that each cigarette compounded.
I’ve known many ‘inhaling’ smokers in my time but only one that smoked occasionally (when drinking) and did so without getting hooked. So, maybe a tiny minority of people can do this and get away with it but that still doesn’t make it worth doing – there is no benefit, there is no ‘high’, there is no point.
@Archie, we keep banging the same drum here but, if you haven’t done so already, get the Allen Carr book or CD or DVD or do the 1-day clinic (more expensive but, hey!) – I think there’s one here in January.
Like you I made numerous attempts to quit, usually with the ‘aid’ of equally addictive NRT patches but failed within weeks each time. This last time, after reading the book, I knew instantly my addiction was over. Now I don’t miss smoking in the slightest and wouldn’t smoke again if cigarettes were free.
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I’m a non-smoker and always have been but I have a question:
What (if any) are people’s experiences with uncured tobacco?
In a very interesting book called Sugar Blues by William Dufty there’s a chapter dedicated to tobacco which claims that it is mainly the sugar used to fast-cure modern tobacco that causes lung cancer and makes it smell noxious whilst burning.
He claims that some countries sell uncured tobacco – France was mentioned, but the book I have is old. I once sat near a Frenchman who I only realised was smoking when I saw his fag. Usually I can smell the burning from far away so I did wonder if there was something in this.
Keeping healthy old people in pensions & care homes costs governments more than medicating/hospitalising those who die younger, so maybe governments don’t actually care if people smoke (or eat) themselves to death.
It would be a shame if most of the bad points about smoking were avoidable when so many people want to do it. Having said that, my (extremely uptight) stepmother chilled out amazingly after giving up. Her shoulders used to rise higher with every drag!
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@Phil: likely because you feel you need to (and I can understand your need) you’re missing the point. However, I guarantee you, non-smokers, teetotalers, vegetarians, and health seekers in general are not living a life of fear by avoiding tobacco etc. In fact far from it! Believe it, we are living a great life, a wonderful exciting life, and those of us who became non-smokers, quit booze, and stopped putting killer fatty foods and dead animals and dead birds into our bodies are living the most exciting life of all because we know what it was like on the way to destroying our good health – but with a bit of effort have escaped from that dark side and are living the life of Riley (especially when smelling that beautiful fresh salt sea air while biting on a fresh Guernsey grown apple out at Jerbourg.) Love yourself Phil. Go borrow the book!
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@Jon: no offense Jon, but if you are ‘off for a fag’ then it’s time to read the book, honest.
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@Phil. Just read your post to Dave Haslam, Phil. I suppose it’s human to hear you suggest that smoking or other health destroying habits are ‘personal choice’ – problem with that, though, is that it is not only you who has to pay for your ‘ personal’ choices, it’s everyone else too through their taxes in keeping hospitals and other services going to help you out when you’re choices have caused you sickness.
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Paul Le Page
I can assure you my views are not blinkered. They are the views of most smokers if their being honest.
The vast majority of smokers are addicts and the worst ones are the ones that smoke on a regular basis and still think they only smoke because they “enjoy” it and can give up with ease, again you have not put yourself in that situation so dont really know how strong the addiction is.
I am really not talking about a guy who smokes a cigar every year and i dont see anyone else on here that does either, even Phil can smoke up to 15 years worth in one day of what you smoke in one year.
The ones that smoke as you do are so few and far bwtween i cant believe you can compare it to drinking, where most people that drink are not addicted to it.
Stevo
Ofcourse you enjoy it and so do i but thats not the reason we smokers smoke is it. I bet if it was just as easy not to have another one as it is to have one you`d stop straight away.
Archie
Well said and i hope you can give up some day. Youv`e made the first step by admitting to yourself the REAL reason you smoke. Good luck.
Finally
Paul i dont know what i would call a real smoker “exactly” but i`ll have a go, i think it is someone who is addicted to fags, and that covers just about MOST people who smoke with very few exceptions such as yourself.
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Just re-reading Archie’s post again. For me the key phrase is ‘not having the ability to quit’. You DO have the ability to quit, yes it’s going to be damn hard and you’ve got a few failures behind you, but you’ve got the ability for sure. Everyone smoker has the ability and, more importantly, you really do want to quit. Easy for me as a non smoker to say but have you tried Allen Carr’s book that worked for Expat80 and others posting here? Worth a try surely. Nothing to lose, so just go for it man. You can do it!
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Phil
Yes it is all about personal choice, but there is a massive distinction between drugs of addiction, such as Alcohol and Nicoteine, than lifestyle issues such as weight and ….. erm pastyness.
Its also my personal choice to have concern for other people, just as I would let people out into traffic or help an old lady cross the road, I view giving advice about smoking in the same light. It may surprise you to hear that even though you appear clued up as to what damage you are doing to your body every time you spark up, there are plenty who still dont.
I’m not telling you to quit smoking, I’m just re-affriming the information that smoking is bad for you, if that annoys you then I’m sorry but you’ll never stop me for being concerned about others well being.
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Thanks for the advice on Allen Carr to those who suggested that road. Alot of it is fear of hitting that wall again, the mood swings etc. I could do with going on a desert island for 6 months, that would cure me, but seriously NRT helps for a short time, but seems to prolong the agony as time goes on. Im not allowed Champix, tried Zyban and unfortubatly, had to come off that due to bad reaction.
Doctor suggested Hypnosis which I have not tried yet. Know of any? Id be happy living without cigs, for sure, get alot more out of living being a bit healthier, and maybe my repetative chest infections may stop, plus, i would stop paying thousands a year extra in tax to the States.
For those who do not smoke, be glad you dont, for those who are social smokers and happy to go days without a cig, you are the lucky ones too, if you are happy to smoke, make sure the habit dont increase. To the one who say they enjoy smoking, how many do you really enjoy a day? I bet, like me, the majority of what you smoke a day is out of habit…right or wrong?? Im being honest, its only a couple of times a day I truely enjoy a cig, 1st thing with a coffee, after work with a coffee and after tea with a coffee. 3 times a day. (Maybe I got a coffee issue too)
For those being critical about smokers such as myself, give us a bit of understanding and dont treat us all like criminals. Smoking is addictive just as other things and everyone is different. Just like with drink, some people do not drink, some occasionally, and some cannot stop and we all been witness to lives ruined by drink. Goes with any addiction, not just smoking. We all, have different strenghts and weaknesses.
I believe, and I must admit this, I wish I had never started. I wish I had known the concequences of what taking that first cig at school would do.
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Just a couple of points:
Do you really enjoy the act of smoking? Or is it that you are addicted, you don’t like the feeling of the withdrawal that you get when you don’t smoke, and smoking the next cigarette makes it better? That’s not enjoyment, that’s addiction. Which part exactly do you enjoy? Your clothes smelling bad? Or your breath? Or having to stand outside in the cold? I can see the attraction of taking a paid 10 minute break 4 times a day.
To hello’s point about a win win, we benefit from the tax and save the pension money yes, but you forget about the healthcare costs that the taxpayer will pick up for Phil’s smoking as he undergoes chemo, lung transplant etc. A bit dramatic but I feel the point should be made.
If you had to pay for your own healthcare, you probably wouldn’t smoke because your premiums would be massive, if insurance would cover you at all. As it is, you let us pick up the tab for your “enjoyment”. Thanks.
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@long_way_away
It’s people like you who put my back up against the wall, its people like you that criminalize me and other smokers like me….oh so perfect you are, and people like you. Id rather die smoking than be anything like you. Take the plank out your own eye first.
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Smokers more than cover the medical bills they may incur with the extortionate rate of tax charged on each packet of cigarettes. In fact we pay so much that we are actually subsidising the non smokers.
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Hi Long_way_away. Great point, but you’re missing a few important stats.
I’ll use the UK as an example, ‘cos I don’t have the figures for sunny Guernsey.
It was recently calculated that the NHS spends £5 billion a year on treating healthcare problems caused by smoking.
The tax revenue in the UK from tobacco duty is £10 billion a year.
That leaves £5 billion a year to spend on education and police and those unfortunate people who just really don’t feel like working.
In summary. Keep smoking people. You’re paying my tuition fees and mortgage, and as you probably won’t make it much beyond retirement age your fiscal contribution to society is the most generous of any Islander.
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Archie – I don’t know why I’m getting your back up, you seem to be agreeing with my post in the main. You say you only enjoy 3 cigs a day, the rest are out of habit (I call that addiction), you’d prefer to be a bit healthier and have some more money in your pocket. Try reading the book suggested. I’m not trying to criminalize you, and I’m not perfect. I used to smoke. I read the book that was mentioned twice and then stopped. I don’t miss smoking at all now. It’s a habit when you do it, but it’s not a natural habit or everyone would do it. I’ll expect the usual comments about reformed smokers etc.
I might stand corrected on subsidizing your medical treatment, but your figures are for the UK – does it still hold true for Guernsey?
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@ Archie – try John Halker
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Quite true but maybe some lives will be saved aswell.
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@long_way_away…no worries. It is a sensitive subject (with me, a horror story), it was the way I read your previous post.
On an individual note, would be great to quit, cigs are going up in price, but as Student Bob pointed out, the tax revenue pulled in by the government in the UK benefits many, as much as is spent on many paying for health care due to smoking.
What my original question was, besides my own problems with smoking, with many that ‘are’ managing to quit, do you not think that the ones that are left are paying for the ones who have quit it with tax increases on cigs? Seems us smokers, the ones that are left, are being hammered from every angle, and seriously, do you think the States could afford to lose the revenue generated on cigarette taxes?
If there were no smokers, yes, you’d have a few less in hospital with smoking related illnesses, but where would the States find the revenue if we all gave up?? So who is going to pay? Everyone’s tax would have to go up or something. The States would lose millions if we all quit, believe me. This is only a point of view…..there’s many things that cause us ill health, poor diet, pollution, life style, smoking is the one that seems to get targeted the most yet it does not ruin lives like drink does, but that is another story.
Thank you Mrs Meat for your suggestion.
Got to give the States credit for Quitline, at least there is an avenue, which is free, provided to help us addicts.
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I already grow my own tobacco, it’s much cheaper and more healthier for my children.
There are multiple ways to get around tax, just need to use Ask Jeeves. It’s helped me to use boat fuel for my 10 cars, and helped me to avoid insurance, as I print my own insurance documents.
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@archie: the States ‘Quit’line does not work, it is a waste of everyones time and money. Same goes for all the other pharmecutical ‘products’ such as the patch, the gum, and your Doctors prescribed medications etc. What does work is Allen Carr’s ‘The Easy Way To Stop Smoking’. Please do yourself a huge favour. Go beg, borrow or buy copy. You will never regret it!
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@Expat80….do agree with you, alot o the products just prolong the agony. Some do manage to quit going down that road, but it is a hard road. That book…yea, I’ll have to see about getting one.
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@ Archie: brilliant decision Archie – you will succeed in becoming a non-smoker – and the moment you do you’ll be so enthused and excited you will wonder why you never did it years ago.
Best.
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