Cobo takes disputed car park row to next level
Tuesday 28th December 2010, 2:30PM GMT.
Rhiannon Cook, who will take over as senior constable in January, and douzenier Barry Paint in the car park at Cobo. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1072454)
FRUSTRATED Castel officials are going ahead with plans to refurbish the car park at Cobo which has been the subject of a bitter ownership dispute.
The constables want to introduce a new layout for parking on the land next to the Checkers XPress shop, to resurface the area, extend the pavement, install a bus shelter and create a bus lay-by.
The constables and douzaine claim the car park is a parish facility while Thomas Holroyd claims he owns it via his company, A. W. Holdings.
The dispute has resulted in large boulders being placed to block off access to the car park, apparently at the request of Mr Holroyd, who did not respond to Guernsey Press attempts to speak to him about the parish’s application.
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sort out disputed land before spending more money
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Whoever’s idea it was to change the car park in the first place is an imbecile, it made much more sense to have the boats on the least used car park to the very far left of the car park (as coming in left), and more space to car users.
However, if this is coming out of rate payers pockets when it’s not our land, then I am outraged.
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True ownership of the land will need to be proven, before permission is granted for any works to take place.One would have thought.
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I agree – before the parish spends more money lets be certain we do not get involved in another legal marathon.
Incidentally, how much did the last action cost the parish ? If Deputy Paint was in court for several days I am guessing it was many thousands of pounds. I only ask if anyone knows because it seems the rates are rocketing upwards in this parish. There seems to be a gung ho attitude by the parish in this matter.
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As at Sampsons tax / rate payer, i hope my taxes/ates are not being used to finance this, especially when there is doubt over ownership.. maybe the states can re pave my drive, as its been worn down by the big yellow sewage carts that we have to have rather than the states giving us the main drain to mine and my neighbours houses !
Yet another States blunder – GET IT SORTED !!!
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Can we not have public vote annually to decide whether our states representatives get paid or not !!! How about the % of yesses = % of their agreed pay.. Years ago.. all deputies did this voluntarily..not £30k or so ans they get now, and we were in a much better state than we are now.
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As i understand it, the Rocky gang decided that as it was built on reclaimed land formally the bit between high & low water which would of been in control of the Crown, then now, the Man with the Hat,has control. Presumally as some kind of exchange for the bit over the wall which now is the bit between high & low water. What of the Braye du Val & North Beach Car Park,as being formally between high & low water who knows ?
I wish their wifes would keep the promise of an enforced curfew,dont allow them outside unsupervised,dont allow them to consume alcohol, it nearly ended in tears last time…
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Performing work does not confer ownership.
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States should compulsorily purchase for one pound.
The pound to be held in trust for the previous owner by the Public Trustee.
The parish and Holroyd can then fight over that pound for the next hundred years, should they wish. The rest of us don’t need to be inconvenienced.
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People’s time should not be wasted by submitting a planning applicaiton on land where the ownership has not been satisfied.
Whilst you can apply for permission to do works on land not owned by the applicant, what a waste of both time and money.
Today’s paper carries such application for this land.
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David – this land is in the Castel. Last time I checked my St Sampson rate bill it was for a St Sampson rate payer…
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The parish must have claimed ownership. If you apply for changes to someone elses land you need them to sign a form.
Are IDC turning a blind eye to the legal issue? They were quick to get on the phone to the estate agent when Andy Bougourd’s house went on the market (Les Niaux property St Andrews). More IDC inconsistency?
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There must be clarity on the ownership of land. The States are not entitled to abuse property rights.
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The Law Officers were asked to sort this out about eighteen months ago
Rumour has it that the file sits just below the file on animal welfare in the things to do tray
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It will probably sit in the Law Officer’s tray until someone does something that offends the owner of the land. From a bystander’s viewpoint TH has everything to lose and nothing to gain in this situation – which is why the “Boys” did not expect to end up in court. Would you advise your client to take a case to court where you thought he might have a decision that stripped him of the very title he was trying to enforce? So if no-one was willing to play the high-stakes game over the last year it is quite natural that the Checkers folk are happy that the parish have turned this up a notch. The precedent does not look too good for TH: a strip of land that no-one could undisputably claim ownership of behind Mount Durand ended up in developer’s hands and the Environment Dept just looked at the merits of the planning application. Do not expect them to concern themselves about ownership here. Some readers will have got Rob Batiste’s book “Coast” in their Christmas stocking and there is an intriguing photograph of Cobo on page 24 taken in the late 19th century. This plate clearly shows the coast road with sand, pebbles and seaweed against it on both sides, with a steep drop down into the Mare de Carteret. If you accept the road as being built across the beach in a natural manner following a ridge then you have to ask yourself where the beach ended before this feat. The natural line extending past the Checkers seaward wall today and along the low stone wall northwards looks more likely to be the line demarcating the top of the beach than the road itself. There is a set of telegraph poles running close to the inland wall of the road and it would be interesting to know if “land owners” complained to the States about ownership of land when those were placed there.
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I like your plan Bob!
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Good idea in theory Bob but who would the States buy it from? The States may well already own it, the Castel Constables are laying claim to it and Mr Holroyd claims he has title to it. Perhaps we should lock all three in a room at the Cobo Bay hotel and not let them out till they have agreed who owns it!!!
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I use this car park all the time. With the the bus lane and shelter planned, I hope they are not going to make the parking lot smaller.
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Putting boulders there is development and therefore would require planning permission – why not get Environment on the case to enforce against them?
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Surely the ownership has to be sorted first? How can the constables put in an application if this is in dispute? What if the other claimant puts in a totally different planning? Utter stupidity typical of this island.
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