1

DA666

Great Idea, why not go the whole hog and use the OUR to regulate the Dairy, introduce competition with cut price milk from the uk and really screw things up completely for the local Dairy Industry…

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3

tim

If they are so pro competition why is there only one OUR?

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5

Dave Jones

The whole of Guernsey’s way of life is being sacrificed on the alter of so called commercialisation. The way that many of the services are supplied to this community are unique, they are unique because there has always been a social element to these community services that has been overseen by the States for the benefit of the community. It is our way of doing things and I am one deputy who absolutely fed up to the back teeth of outside consultants writing reports telling us that we should dismantle all the things that make up the unique fabric of Guernsey, for a UK model, whether its closing toilets or putting our dairy industry at risk by large food retailers eventually importing milk, it makes no difference to me, our feeling of community is being systematically destroyed on the advice of those from elsewhere who have already seen theirs disappear. The track record of commercialisation in Guernsey has been pretty abysmal and as I keep saying, in its short history it has proved that there is nothing in it for the consumer, it is about higher prices and profits for the middle men, squeezing what you can out of a captive population, paid board members and very expensive regulation, all of which is paid for by you.

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7

DA666

@ DJ..quite agree Dave, as no doubt does a good proportion of the population;
All we, as the Guernsey Public and Tax payer, need is for more members of the States Assembly to realise it and put a stop to this sort of rot once and for all.

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9

CD

I agree that we do need to protect our Dairy industry and the future of our farmers. Importing UK milk for example would be an unmitigated disaster.

However, I cannot help feeling that we are missing a trick here. We have some of the best dairy produce in the world – our Guernsey cream and milk are second to none. Surely we should be exporting these premium products (at a premium price)? Our diary industry would get a much needed boost and we would be helping diversify and rebuild our economy.

By all means protect our domestic market (by any means necessary) but surely we can introduce an element of “commercialisation” so far as exports are concerned?

Our dairy is effectively state owned – which is fine and it at least allows our island to look after its own interests. However I wonder whether this results in us having the best people appointed to manage the business? Perhaps the introduction of a few more people with experience of marketing and exporting would be no bad thing.

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11

Dave Jones

CD

I agree with you on exports of Dairy products, the problem is that protocol 3 that allows us to export into the EU, is also the same protocol that prevents us from keeping out long life UHT milk, it is done by voluntary agreement at present but a free commercial dairy industry would soon see that agreement torn up in my view. We would then see a decline in dairy herds, leaving us without the milk to manufacture dairy products for the island never mind export. I am sorry to say this but many of these proposals in the milk review have disaster written all over them, this is not in the best interests of Guernsey.

Just as an aside IWV would also prevent Deputies who live in the National park in the higher parishes from voting to dump all the bad neighbour industries down in the Vale and St Sampson, as the voters in the North would have a say in their seats as well.

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13

Dave Jones

Mr G
I am not against a review being carried out on anything and the cost of the review is part of the States looking at how it operates. I just think that what Guernsey has and the differences that make this a special place cannot be replicated by some UK model of doing things. There is a delicate balance in a small Island community that produces some inimitable ways of doing things that work for us. They are strange to those looking at us from outside but that is no reason to dismantle them just because three people have suggested we should. The bottom line for me is the long term protection of the Guernsey breed and our dairy farming industry, any large quantities of imported milk will lead to its demise, there is no getting away from it.

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15

Mr G

I completely agree with your Dave Jones, but surely if the island is still trying to fill that black hole the States Members made a few years ago then the best way to do this would be to limit the amount of reviews the island has, I imagine they’re not cheap.

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17

JC

The problem I have with stories like these is the lack of facts and figures. I agree that the Guernsey Dairy should not be commercialised, as I suspect that in order for the entire Dairy industry to wash its face the price of milk would have to shoot up. The reason I say this is that Farmers in Guernsey get fairly large States subsidies. So, if Dairy farmers had to make a decent living just off the milk they sold to the Dairy how much would they need per litre? Then the dairy does it magic (at a cost), so how much would they actually have to charge per litre to make a profit?

Surely the only way to make more money from the Guernsey Dairy industry is to sell the products to others.

Also – I can’t help wonder if this mess was made because of a similar move many years ago. Guernsey used to be full of small farmers, each making enough to keep a small farm. The States then encouraged (or so my Grandpa used to say) the idea of bigger farms. The States now pay for the entire farming industry as I do not believe these farms would survive without States funding.

In my opinion a commercial Dairy would fail, meaning the dairy farms would follow soon after, as the price of milk would be too high for our purses.

So what are the facts and figures so we the Guernsey people can see what all the fuss is about? Heck, if we knew we may have some good ideas for the States for free, rather than getting UK consultants in.

As an aside – why does Guernsey ever listen to the UK regards how to run? We have a better lifestyle, better education system, better Tax system and Guernsey more or less runs debt free. So why listen to one of the most debt ridden Western countries with a downward sliding education system? Where is the logic?

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19

CD

Dave Jones – thank you for clarifying the Protocal 3 point – I was not aware allowing exports would also open the door to imported IHT milk.

That said, would anyone in their right mind actually buy IHT (or any other imported dairy produce)when Guernsey milk is so good?

If we built up an export base for our excellent dairy produce then surely that would do more to boost the dairy industry than inferior imports would do to harm it. We would need to increase the herd in order to fulfil demand.

(Ray – I was not suggesting we we bring in more outsiders to ‘help’ run our island – although I do not share your paranoia about immigration if there is no one locally qualified or skilled enough to do the job.)

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21

Ray

Beanjar

Now you mention it I think you are right about too much milk being produced at one stage

If I remember correctly Peter Roffey was involved in re-calculating how much milk was required from a reduced number of livestock

The sums didn’t work out at first stab which left us importing inferior milk from Jersey for a while until we got the balance right

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23

CO

Whatever happened to the Guernsey yogurts we used to be able to get? Beanjar is right, why is there no spreadable butter, various cheeses, affordable ice cream etc? I’d buy these products over “imports” if they were available at the right price.

I have fond memories of the dairy shop in the market, shame it ever closed.

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25

P/T Farmer

Jc is close to the mark. I would never wish to see the local breed in any way threatened and by no means is this sour grapes so please dont take it this way.
There are many many young hobby farmers like myself who would give their right arm for the oppurtunity to farm however it is a firmly closed door. No matter how much they say that they want to encourage youngsters into the industry it will not be possible unless you inherit your parents farm.
The farmers are by no means poor, most driving around in mercedes and range rover sports (they know who they are) as alternatives to pick ups. They do not want the number of farms increased (i think 18 at the moment) as this will see their nice little subsidy of approx 2.5 million shared dependant on size of herd and land.
Who would, these men are very fortunately getting paid by us the tax payer to do the job they love and most employ foreign labour peanuts so they can do even less and go and play golf! With this in mind it is not even an option for us local people to help as farm hands as the wages are far to low compared to what some non locals are happy to work for and i am talking from twenty years of experience.
In My Grandads day there was no assistance from the states and there were literally hundreds of small local farmers with a much happier way of life and a certainly more efficient way of farming without all the damage to the land that these big machines cause. The price of milk certainly was not 3 times more than in the uk and we could all enjoy this wonderful product whilst working hard doing the job we love.There was never a shortage of milk either, it was not that long ago milk was being imported from Jersey!

Bring back the old days I say.

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27

DE49

Beanjar
The Guernsey Dairy recieves no subsidy. the 2.25 million goes to the Farmers, about 20 of them, based on litres produced , so the large farmers are doing very nicely thank you.

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