Shootings lead police to review firearms capability
Tuesday 18th January 2011, 11:30AM GMT.
GUERNSEY POLICE’S firearms capability has been reviewed in the light of shootings in the UK.
Speaking after a Chamber of Commerce lunch yesterday, chief of police Patrick Rice (pictured) confirmed that he had commissioned a strategic firearms risk assessment after taking up the post five months ago.
But he was unable to comment on suggestions made on the BBC phone-in that the force had spent more than £400,000 on an armoured Land Rover and two armoured BMWs.
He did, however, say that the police force had reviewed its equipment, training and reconfigured its vehicle fleet ‘in order to deal effectively with current and future threats to the Bailiwick posed by the criminal use of firearms’.
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Assuming that the rumours of spending nigh on half a million on just three police vehicules are correct, then this is possibly an over-reaction from a new Police chief.
Remember all the fences that went up around the harbour some years ago, along with restricted access. That was all done under the umbrella of possible terrorist threats.
Unless of course there is something we are not being told………
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I have great sympathy for the new chief….unfortunately this is a dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t kind of thing. It really only needs to happen once. And it is not as if these vehicles cannot be used for normal work as well. The world has changed a bit in the last couple of years and who knows what can happen. Better to plan for the worst and have the capability me thinks.
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…Maybe the £400,000 includes some sort of Harry Potter invisibility cloak?? If it doesn’t then the sight of an armoured Land Rover on local roads wont be purely speculation for long…..not exactly hard to miss!
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What’s an armoured vehicle gonna be able to do? If the gun wielding criminal is going to kill you, a vehicle’s not gonna stop him.
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i think the new copper thinks he is still working in uk , or prehaps he needs these cars to drive all these lazy police persons that do not like walking the beat .
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It doesn’t take them long does it? Please, politicians and civil servants alike, draw a line between yourselves and business entities, accepting this does you no credit.
When I finish lunch I have to get back to work, not hang about chatting about it. So get on with it Rice, no slacking eh!
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Maybe it is expected we’ll be food rioting within the next 12 months?
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At last a capable newbie with the foresight to tool up and face the threat posed by —drunken rowdies and vandals, not to mention the ones with busted headlights (you know who you are) ,seriously though, i now doubt that theres a terrorist organision in the world that will take us on now with all the trained manpower and specialist weapons and tactics at our disposal ,i mean look at America with its thousands of soldiers ,guns ,tanks ,planes ,F,B,I . C,I,A J,C,B and MGBGTno one bothers them do they??
in light of the public being asked for more tax money for whatever, then if money has been spent on this farce ,it was ill timed and proof that not only are the states incompetent
(thats been proved ) but that we have a growing number of people being brought into the island to run it, who are pretty well clueless as to what the place really needs (it could happen here ?? yes and it might not)but its an expensive way to find out when we are potless ,there wont be anything worth terrorising us for.
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Mr G, the whole point of armoured vehicles is to stop the gun wielding criminal from killing you.
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Dan, they’d have to get out the car to catch him though, wouldn’t they. Just some more rubbish from our police force.
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dan_gsy
They don’t protect anyone not in them, ie: us.
At some stage plod will have to get out to shoot back.
Unless the high cost is due to Q branch fitting guns behind the headlights.
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Mr G, John and Steve,
Get back in your arm chairs.
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Mr G.
‘What’s an armoured vehicle gonna be able to do?’
Stop the police officers who are the only people on the island with the capability of stopping an armed criminal, not get shot!
And they do protect us, as the people in them who can stop an attack arn’t that usefull when shot.
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steve, Mr G – When the ‘plod’ get out and shoot, they will stand behind the armoured car, therefore protecting most of their body from an onslaught of bullets. Therefore you can see they can protect people not in them!
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Steve, Mr G etc When was the last time that mr ‘plod’ in guernsey came under an onslaught of bullets form the criminal/terrorist fraternity?
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In his review of the firearms capability of local police Patrick Rice cites the case of Derrick Bird who killed 12 people and injured 11 others but (forgive the pun) manages to shoot himself in the foot!
The Cumbrian police chased Derrick Bird all over the county and had every opportunity to call up armed response teams, armoured vehicles, helicopters and everything else at their disposal (and the disposal of other forces). The fact that Bird killed himself before the police could catch up with him made all of their weapons and armour rather superfluous.
So why does Mr. Rice really expect us to swallow the need for this unnecessary expenditure?
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Do we really need gun toting police Rambos hurtling around the streets of St Peter Port in armoured personnel carriers?
This is Guernsey for goodness sakes, not Bogota.
Give ‘em a bicycle, a truncheon and a whistle I say! Lets try to keep things civilised around here and spend tax payer’s hard earned money on essentials such as travel expenses for our Chief Minister.
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Oh yeah, ’cause we get loads of cases every year with gun wielding criminals, deffo worth 1/2 a mill.
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Mr G , Tim.
My house has never burned down in the ten years I’ve owned it. Nor did the one before that.
I have also failed totally to die in the last 40 or so years.
I will however still be continuing my house and life insurance just in case.
Sadly, people have been shot dead in Guernsey recently. Should these vehicles actually help prevent another gun fatality or injury in the future, I take it you will personally inform the victim that the money spent protecting them wasn’t worth it, and you would rather they were lying in intensive care, or the morgue ??
If the vehicles never get used – I will be very happy.
Same as I will be happy that I, and my house, have survived when ( If ?? ) I get my next insurance renewal …..
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History Lesson:
Someone I know well was a serving Guernsey Police Officer 25 years ago. He faced up to and disarmed a drunken man who pointed a shotgun at him. The end of the barrel actually touched his stomach. Thankfully he was not injured.
Question:
Would he at the time have wanted the safety of an armoured car or the back of an armed response team?
You can figure the answer out for youselves.
It can happen anywhere.
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Bad Experience
Someone I know was Chief Officer of Police 35 years ago (he was my Grandfather). His attitude was live and let live, some people will always be a pain in the proverbial, that’s life. That attitude would result in an awful lot more respect for the Police than currently exists.
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Check out all the armchair experts.
Likelihood of it happening is rare, but if it does, and its your wife/mother/daughter/husband/brother etc in the vicinity you will think a few pounds worth the money.
You will be telling me next that airbags and anti-lock brakes are an extra you don’t need as you had never had a crash in 20 years of driving?
Pyer – you refer to an incident years ago when the Police were taking precautions in respect of a court case.
The Police should be applauded for their work and trying to keep ahead of any potential threat – good for them.
A strategic assessment shows good leadership – the new Chief is obviously keen to understand the position locally, nationally and internationally, he is also happy to gain on objective opinion – good for him and full marks.
Also, you have to remember that Guernsey has a lot of firearms for such a small place – there are loads of ‘enthusiasts’ who own World War 2 weapons etc – all you need is one drunken disaffected or sucidal lune to take a few people out.
I wish people would get over dissing the Police – they work night and day (literally) to stop certain people turning Guernsey into a toilet.
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Well I have to say just lately I have never seen so many police bikes, cars, vans, etc around the island, which can only be a good thing for Guernsey, as for the armoured cars well I suppose Mr Rice has been given a budget and it is up to him how he spends it, so lets give the guy a chance, it seems, so far so good. It is about time these defective vehicles were checked out.
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I agree with Darren. Guernsey is a soft target for organised criminals and with the amount of money floating around here it’s simply good wisdom to take precautions. OK they may never be used – let’s hope so – but the same could be said of fire engines.
My only minor criticism is I’m not sure I see the need for 3 armoured vehicles. 2 (one + one standby) should be perfectly sufficient. But that’s just my opinion.
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I’m a little confused
Are these three vehicles an addition to the current Police fleet,to remain in mothballs until required for their special purpose… OR are they to be used daily as part of the general purpose fleet
In money terms it seems sensible to use them daily on routine work although with the extra armour weight involved they will be more costly to run
It would also be quite amusing to see the armoured van pull up outside the North Side chippy to collect the late shift suppers
Of further interest will be the time a few years down the line when they have to put these vehicles out to tender in order to replace them
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I think we ought to build a 300ft high sea wall around the entire island, just in case a tsunami ever hits us. Also let’s build a nuclear fallout shelter big enough for 80,000 people, just in case it’s ever needed. And free stab jackets to all citizens to deal with any risk of injury whilst walking through town at the weekend.
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If anyone gets up to something serious on the small island of Guernsey, particularly if they have planned it, then they will want to get off-island ASAP. So maybe one armoured car, plus a gun boat, and an armoured plane or helicopter.
Cover all possibilities. Just joking. The whole thing seems a complete over-reaction. And who defined the problem? What problem??
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Policing on this Island needs to improve and the right man to do that was identified and employed so I say lets cut him a little slack! IMO We have already seen some improvements.
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I’m liking the wall idea Phil – the only problem I can see is one of cost.
I’ve got an idea to help though – perhaps if we use the island’s natural defences (e.g. south coast cliffs) we could save at least a third of the cost. What do you think?
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Rees & Phil,
Not an overreaction at all. This is simple contingency planning, something we expect the police to do (or should expect them to do). Come the day that the police cannot respond effectively with a shooting incident all the same people on here will be out again criticising the police for not putting themselves in a position where they can protect the public.
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The cops should be given a break. All the high profile cases recently have been brought to a swift & efficient conclusion.
Like mentioned above, the smack heads need to be stopped. Their numbers seem to be multiplying like sewer rats. Their morals & ways are not much better either.
Bring these scumbags before the courts & the crime rates would decrease by 75% or more.
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Darren, just the other day I saw about 10 police officers stopping one car for a “check up” that they’re doing recently.
Bit of a waste of tax payers money, I could check a car quite easily by myself, why does it require 10 to check a car out?
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Truth Man
What a shock to see you blindly supporting the police!
There is no point in “planning” for every eventuality, it simply isn’t possible in a society our size. Please name me one, just one, incident in recent history where an armoured vehicle (or two, or three) would have made the slightest difference.
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Secrecy breeds speculation.
No one knows what the situation is at present hence all the speculation above, but I can guarantee that it will only be a short time before someone’s relation who know’s someone’s relation, who know’s someone in the Police Force starts telling everyone exactly what the situation is.
So before that happens and to stop all the current speculation, the Police Chief should make an open statement now and clear up the situation now. I can’t see in this day and age what is so secret about, apparently, an armoured landrover and two armoured BMW’s, after all we will be seeing them on the road shortly.
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Secrecy breeds speculation,as above.
In this case I can’t see a need for it, we will be seeing the vehicles on the roads eventually.
Better to come out in a small place like Guernsey and explain your position. Then the comments can be constructive.
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My first comment appeared to get lost as the page crashed,so i made another, hence the two comments above
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Mr G
If one of these heaps of junk wiped out a member(s) of your family you’d be full of criticism on why nothing is ever done.
Many things are done for good reason. Not all can appreciate this though.
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The police follow – rightly or wrongly – Home Office Guidelines. If a police force decides to arm up its officers they must do so according to these guidelines. There is no cherry picking what part you want to adhere to and what you don’t, so therefore you must either adopt all of it or none of it – no half measures.
You will more then likely find that it is these guidelines which dictate the type of vehicles an armed response unit must use. Whilst this isn’t LA or Moss Side there ARE incidences – many of which never come to the publics attention – where firearms etc are used. If someone pointed a weapon at a member of my family I would welcome an armed response unit and their armoured vehicles rather then a special constable in a Vauxhall..
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Phil:
Nothing blind about my support of the police on this issue at all. I am sighted on enough of what the police and governments do to be well aware of the need to contingency plan – and even though you don’t recognise it, this is a contingency that has to be accounted for. There is no chance of mutual aid from elsewhere in case of firearms emergency therefore the police have no alternative but to remain self-sufficient.
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Mr G,
In response – your comment ‘about 10 Police Officers’, was more than likely 2 Police Officers with 8 probationary recruits who were learning about the law, what to look for when stopping a motor vehicle etc.
They have to learn somehow, and on the job, dealing with numptys who think they know how to spend the taxpayers money best is often the best way…
George Traveler – what are you on about? Secrecy? Another case of someone who reads too many fictional books.
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In uncertain times Guernsey needs to Tool up, we need to look ahead now, suppose Jersey was to steal a march on us, suppose they were first to have a Nuclear Deterent, Home dept must look at funding Nuclear research now, we probably dont even need the most expensive system.
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I was just thinking the other day how long before the taser becomes norm in Guernsey. And here it is in todays paper that they want to stop the ban.
The police are following higher orders here. When the whole world is globalised, it won’t be about whats safe to the public, it will be what can be used against us.
It’s already happening in America. Old women being tasered, even a bedridden 86 year old. What about a woman who was tasered because she wouldn’t put her hands where the officer could see them – though she couldn’t because she had already been handcuffed. Watch the video, hear her screams and then ask yourself is Guernsey different or going to head down the same route.
As you sit there ask yourself are we allowing ourselves to lose our freedoms without even really knowing what is going on. If you think that life is all out in the open and there is no secrecy in the world you need to look again.
“The very word “secrecy” is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.
It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions–by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. ”
JFK
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Paul @ 7:18
If a heap of junk wiped out my family I’d be interested to know how, I’ve just spent 1/2 a million on some armoured vehicles for my family, so they can eat donuts in the comfort of their car without being shot at, as we all know shooting is regular thing on the drug baron island of Guernsey.
My point was that I can check over a car all by myself, why does it require 10 rozzers to check a car is safe to use? Soon they’ll be dipping our tanks in case we’re using domestic fuel, or maybe if we’re carrying guns to protect ourselves on the drug baron island of Guernsey.
Darren @ 9:05am
I can assure you that about 5 of them were full time rozzers. Not sure on the other 5, probably SCs who think they’re clever…
Anyway, why do we need armoured cars in Guernsey? Why do they need to be fast BMWs? Why didn’t they buy a second hand tank? The drug baron island of Guernsey needs a tank…
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Truth Man
Nonsense.
I see that you haven’t mentioned any cases where these vehicles would have made the slightest difference. Also, why has it only become necessary to buy them now? Why not 5,10 or 20 years ago?
Plain answer please, not gobbledegook that has little or no meaning.
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Realistic Ms
Great shame that liar Blair didn’t read JFK’s words about eight years ago
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Ray
I dont think it would have made the slightest bit of difference if he had, his master the mass murderer bush would have seen to that.
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Phil:
Do a Google search so you understand what contingency planning is.
It is not necessary for me to cite examples of where these vehicles would have made a difference, since I am talking about the need to plan for contingencies.
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Phil,
Also, I had a re-read of my last post as you called it nonsense and appeared to think it was Gobbledegook. What about it did you feel had little or no meaning? Do you want me to put it in to simpler language for you Phil?
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Clint Eastwood didn’t need a amoured vehicle, a couple of Magnum’s would sort the Punk’s.
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Roy Gueno
We leave our sewage untreated for a reason ya know… ;-)
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I heard today that Guernsey had sent the Traffic Wardens on firearms training!!
I don’t know if this is true or not, but does this mean that Guernsey’s contingency plans are going much much further than we first thought? should I be worried? I know one thing for sure eh!, my rose coloured glasses are going in the recycling bin.
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LittleGem
Be careful where you park… VERY CAREFUL :-)
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