Mooring fee hike ‘is 15% taxation on boat owners’
Saturday 19th February 2011, 2:29PM GMT.
PLANS to increase mooring fees by 15% will force owners of ‘modest’ vessels to give up boating, the Guernsey Boatowners’ Association has warned.
President Peter Derham responded yesterday after the Public Services Department announced proposals to raise an additional £1m. from the harbours and airport.
Among the recommendations was to increase the charges levied against local boat owners who moor their vessels in either the St Peter Port or St Sampson’s harbours – the plans would raise £300,000 a year.
The States will debate the report next month and Mr Derham (pictured) said that, although some boat owners were very wealthy, the vast majority were not and boating was a pastime that was becoming increasingly too expensive for the average local.
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Hi all.
This is a ridiculous situation. Are we being penelized enough for a hobby we enjoy.
It going to be a rich boys game again rather than looking after Joe Bloggs as usual.
They’re going to price us all out!
I own a modest 24 foot family cruiser and I work in the marine industry, so I can see how this effects everyone.
I can’t afford expensive diesel engines (which have the cheapest fuel!), so this with these ridiculous hikes may see my days.
Why are they being hiked so hard at a time when everyone is struggling? What ever happend to ‘the cost of living’ hike? Way over and above!
GD.
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Zero-ten got us into this black hole mess
Right now zero-ten is up in the air because our European friends don’t like it
Why don’t we put all these black hole filling stealth taxes on the back burner while we await the outcome of what will replace zero-ten.If the banks etc are eventually made to pay more tax under the replacement scheme then all these extra charges might not be required
Once these taxes have been introduced they’ll never go back down again
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I’m with Captain Birdseye on this one, its not like we are polluting Guernsey with any exhaust emissions, we are Offshore !they cant touch us, in the words of Lyndon
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“I own a modest 24 foot family cruiser” ROFLMAO
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Its actually a hike of 18.5 percent which is the agreed 3.5% rise plus the “extra” 15%.
Insane.
Still its probably just political shenanegans from PSD and this will simply be chucked out.
If not there’s going to be trouble.
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The “hike” is actually 18.5% as there is 3.5% already agreed for 2011.
This is the last straw for me – and I will sell my boat now – if I can, cos the market has the potential to be flooded by folks who will have made the same decision. I feel so sorry for all marine traders.
It just seems that the ordinary man has been squeezed to the limit – every where you look.
What do we get for our mooring fee? Perhaps Mariners are more expensive in the UK – but at least the majority have proper security and a tidal gauge that works, unlike the QE2. This comparative argument is always dragged out when it suits.
So it’s a very premature goodbye to sailing. On top of everything else I cannot afford an outrageous 18.5%
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Amadeus – you will not be the only one forced to sell their boat because of these ridiculous increases. This is a classic example of mismanagement and incompetence by the States.
18.5% is a ludicrous rate of increase in any circumstances – but the fact that it comes into effect in April 2011 will not even give people time to sell their boats.
The letter boat owners have received from Bernard Flouquet apologises for the inconvenience that this short notice period may have.
Not good enough I’m afraid Mr Flouquet – if the States insist on removing a Guernseyman’s right to own a boat (and that is what the fee increase will mean to many), then boat owners should at least be given time to sell their vessels before they get clobbered with an 18.5% fee hike.
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I too will have to sell my boat or bring it off the mooring and into my garden
I love it but I have to face up to it I just cannot afford it with these increases
I am really fed up
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“if the States insist on removing a Guernseyman’s right to own a boat”
What a load of tosh!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
(pause for breath)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
So you are all saying saying you can’t afford £150 extra a year for a luxury item?
Bunch of melodrams I reckon.
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@isit
Please grow up and engage an adult brain before hitting the keyboard.
To class your posts as “childish” would be a serious insult to children.
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isit is spot on. the marinas are overflowing and the demand could fill one or two others easily. leisure craft are a luxury that owners can afford and the great majority can easily afford the rise. £150 a year is half a bottle of wine a week (if you are not too fussy). and there is no right to owning a boat if you are a guernseyman (what ever that is). what reactionary nonsense. none of you want higher tax, or higher charges and you don’t want a reduction in your 20th century services either. you are well off in this island but most people still want more and more to keep for themselves.
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“Please grow up and engage an adult brain before hitting the keyboard.”
Peter Derham should do the same before running to the press. As an ex politician he’s one of them that put Guernsey in this deficit mess.
Touche!!
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son of blah
Who`s well off in this Island? the people who are well off or the many that are not?
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bcb – the well off are NOT those who are being charged £175 per week to live in a mouldy cupboard by corporate (sometimes states deputy) landlords and get paid £4.50 per hr by (sometimes states deputy) exploitative employers. those persons will not afford the pull cord on a lifejacket let alone a mooring fee. too many rich still fleece the poor in this island so let’s sort that before wringing our hands over leisure craft mooring fees.
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son of blah
Some good points there and i agree apart from the last bit.
But if some are struggleing to keep up the expenses of keeping a boat they should not complain because there is someone worse off?.
Stop thinking that it is only the well off that have boats, i sold mine some years back because of all the increases and thats what some are concerned about now.
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I recall a quote from a former work colleague ..
‘A boat is something which makes a hole in the water into which you pour money’
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I bought my 19 ft boat last year for £2,500 and its currently in the Albert Marina. Its not a sunseeker and I am not a millionaire!
I don’t see having the boat is a luxury, its something in my blood, I have spent all my life on various small boats and in my family we have sea farers going back two centuries.
There are two pontoons in the Albert that have boats of a similar size to mine, so there are a lot of people that have very modest boats that cost a lot less than most cars. What we do get stung by is the mooring fees. Its not like we get a choice where to ‘park’ the boat! I bet if you had to pay £600 for your car insurance and then were told, oh well we need more money to pay for our jollies so we are going to raise the fee by 18.5% you wouldn’t be happy either!
As far as I am aware the mooring fees were for the upkeep of the moorings and paying for the harbour staff etc. I have no problem paying for what I use, and I already pay tax for the things that I do not use, so why should I pay more because PSD are incompetent and the airport does not pay for itself!
Lets start a revolution or have a port blockade!
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Well put Maz.
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with you maz viva revolution
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Erm, Maz, you have plenty of choice where to “park your boat”! It does not have to be in a marina.
The marina mooring is even more of a luxury than the boat already is.
I do enjoy this talk of having a right to a boat, gives me a good old fashioned laugh, the same sort of laugh as I remember my old father having, and his father, and his father’s father. Therefore it is my right to have a good old laugh as well.
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@ The Truth, I assume you mean that I could put my boat in one of the bays and only pay for the rope, chain and anchors etc?
Unfortunately I can only really do that between March and Sept if I still want to be insured, and I don’t have anywhere to lay the boat up for the winter.
I have applied to go outside of the marina but there is a waiting list of about 2 years, which will probably double if ever other small boat owner wants to go there to avoid the fees.
Trust me, if I found a cheaper place for the boat I would!
My point was that I thought the mooring fees were exactly for that, the mooring upkeep etc and as far as I am aware the current fees adequately pay for this so there is no need for it to increase. If you said to me that the increase would mean that the Harbour staff were going to go round and clean my boat once a month I might (chuckle) think that it was worth the 18.5%!
However, this increase in fees is not for the mooring/harbour upkeep but is going elsewhere, effectively it would be a ‘tax’ and I object to that!
Will Lyndon’s two boats be subject to the same tax?
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The Truth
What a silly post. The other options being what excactly?
You fail to understand that Islanders, by their very nature, have seafaring in their blood. This in turn leads to the desire to have a boat and go to sea. Not difficult really.
And what little luxuries do you have in life then?
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The Truth
My grandpa in Bolivia went through this very same sort of difficulty.He fought long and hard for his right to keep a burro
Because he lived in a flat the neighbours complained that the burro made too much noise as it went up and down the stairs
My grandpa was so sure of his rights that he took his case to the South American Court of Human Rights,at great expense to his health and his pocket, but in the end it came back to bite him
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Ray, I tip my hat to you Sir.
Maz, you can rent a bit of field or disused vinery to stash your boat over the winter cheaper than a marina mooring.
Gilthead, silly I indeed am, but I’ve also done a fair bit of genetic research and I’m yet to hear of anyone discovering the “Seafaring” genome.
Both, your moans fall on deaf ears when you understand that marina fees here are far lower than virtually all places in the UK of similar facilities. 60% of Jersey’s wasn’t it?
Oh and what luxuries to do I have? A Helicopter and a Sub. The chopper I keep hovering above my house on a rope so no parking problems there, and the sub I keep at the bottom of Grande Havre, no one knows it’s there so no fees for that either! Maybe you should have picked a different hobby eh, but thats planning and no seafaring gene for you.
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So far I can tell, no-one has commented on the fact that boat-owners are being asked to bail out (if you’ll pardon the pun) the rest of the Island?
As both a boat-owner and a student, I’m not amongst the wealthy elite of Guernsey, but I would have no problem in paying the extra £150ish a year IF that meant that facilities would improve. Perhaps security gates for the town marinas so I can leave my radio, GPS and gold bricks onboard over the weekend. You know, that sort of stuff.
What I DO object to, is my money going to pay for roads and the airport, all because the States don’t have the bottle to introduce paid parking in town. This is bullying. Plain and simple.
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The Truth
Who pays for that mooring while the boat is in a field? do you think you can keep it for free?.
And whats the cost in the UK got to do with anything? I hear its a lot cheaper in Bali to keep your boat tied up.
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Surely the fairest way is to means test. I have no sympathy with those ‘gin palace’ owners who are not paying their way in real terms.
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The fact of the matter is that if you have a close look at both town marinas you will note that the number of ‘gin palaces’ amounts to a very small percentage of boats. The very vast majority are modest craft.
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BCB, Maz was moaning he had nowhere to layup over the winter, thats the answer. Not complicated, just means you’ve got to go out and find somewhere. We’re all very much not in favour of having to put any effort into anything these days eh.
Why is the UK NOT relevant? Is the same facilties in a very similar place? Indeed given our relative economies our marinas should be MORE expensive, not massively cheaper!
And as for BillyB, if you wanted to bring in means testing you’d have to double all mooring fees to cover the admin costs of running such a system, but don’t let real world issues affect your belief that it’s “SURELY” the best way forward.
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The Truth
Its not relevant because we are NOT part of the UK and i dont understand why so many people have to keep comparing us.
I may be wrong but i do get the feeling that its some of our UK friends that come to live here then bleat about how things are done in the uk. Actaully to be honest i hear it all the time at work.
Yes we have some links and some things are relevant but not evrything and i dont see how the price of mooring a boat is one of them.
Maybe people are being ripped off over there? should we follow suit?.
I take your point on what Maz was saying.
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It is a myth that all boat owners are rich play boys who do little else other than go boating. Many are ordinary folk who do ordinary jobs earning not very much. Boat owners who are watching their recreational pastime or marine interests slowly being priced from their grasp, betrayed by the very people who promised on several occasions that they would look after the small boat owner’s interests. We live on an island and it is not surprising that thousands of local people use the sea as recreation and they should not be prevented from doing so by being priced out of it by their own government.
If you go back to the campaign to stop St Sampson becoming a marina, This was one of our biggest fears as objectors, that no sooner would the Marina be built, up would go the mooring fees on a regular basis until it was only the reasonably well off who could afford it. The Board of Admin now known as PSD made great play at the time that these marinas would NOT price local people out of their traditional areas and boat owning all together. Yet another empty promise, just like the one that said the market traders would be protected once the new market was refurbished. Some of those displaced from St Sampson harbour were given affordable moorings in the Longue Hougue pool; however I understand that they are soon to be driven out of there to make way for the new waste facility. These proposed mooring charges by PSD will in my opinion be the last straw for many who are already struggling to keep their boats. Putting boating to one side for a moment, the freight charges they propose will be hugely inflationary as they will immediately be passed on to the consumer after they have been massaged upwards by the middle men. Which will probably mean that a 5p increase at the point the goods comes off of the dock, will be a 20p increase by the time it gets into the shops, all conveniently blamed on shipping costs? That will be on everything from shoes to mars bars. It is these kind of charges on freight that hit the poorest the hardest, they have to eat and cloth their families.
I supported Zero 10 partly because we had little choice other than to keep our finance industry competitive but mostly because we were told that the shortfall would not be extracted from the ordinary person in the street. We were told that it would be recovered by savings and from the business community who were after all the main beneficiaries of the scrapping of corporation tax. I am becoming increasingly concerned about this issues and I know from speaking to several people in my parish that life is starting to get pretty tough for a number of people financially. It isn’t just the fact that food and fuel prices have continued to rise and these proposed freight charges will do nothing to help that situation, it is the cost of water ,electricity, gas, phone charges and line rentals, occupiers rates and the soon to be levied waste water charge that are eroding peoples incomes. As a result the gap between the haves and the have not’s gets wider every day.
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Dave Jones
You’re absolutely right about lots of thing in your above post. These sorts of increases are (or should be) completely unnecessary and wouldn’t even be on the table if the public sector had started to cut costs and eliminate unnecessary wastage sooner. Progress is being made on that front, for sure, but there is a long way to go yet, not least the civil service final salary pension scheme but nobody is prepared to get a grip of that challenge leading up to an election.
Taxes may well have to be raised to pay for some things, but only after all (and I mean all) scope for cutting existing costs have been exhausted.
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Dave Jones
Totally agree with you. The way its going its not just going to be the lower income families that will suffer – it will be the majority of the islands population.
Someone, maybe you, needs to grab PSD and possibly T&R by the ging gangs and bring them back into the real world.
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Gilthead
I will make the same speech in the States as I have posted here; I also brought up the subject at the end of last year in my budget speech, trying to make States members aware that the burden is being slowly shifted onto the ordinary people. I was looking at some old notes yesterday I made at the time when St Sampson was being put forward by the old BOA as a new marina, Deputy Berry at the time told us that one of the benefits of this marina was that it would bring the Bridge area back to life. Well look for yourself, the exact opposite has been true, never in the history of this area has there been so many empty shops. The area had life when we had mud racing in the pool and the St Sampson regatta that was part of the old Guernsey I loved. Real people enjoying their surroundings, doing crazy things in their spare time, whole families coming out with hundreds of spectators sitting along the harbour walls watching the mud covered cars in this wonderful spectacle, a complete no go area for the wretched health and safety fanatics. What do we have now? A plastic boat park and many people forced out of boating because of the cost. As a States, we have been guilty for many years of making these wild claims as justification for changing things and they always seem to leave our people worse off. Whether it is the Town Market, the Commercialisation of our utilities, or changing our natural harbours into Marina’s. When the States does these things, It is almost as if we are saying ”coming through” and if we destroy the community and those that live and work in sections of that community in the process, well that doesn’t really matter “its just improving things”. One other small example, the Salerie pub for instance was the hub of a small community that lived in and around Salerie area; the boat owners from Salerie harbour would meet there have a pint and possibly work on their boats once the tide had dropped, it was a real little community. When the plans were put forward to infill Belgrave Bay the artist impressions of what it would look like showed that the Salerie harbour had disappeared altogether. Hundreds of years of Guernsey’s maritime history wiped off the map at a single stroke. The St Saviour Tavern is part of the same problem and it keeps happening right across the island and unless States members call a halt to it, the Guernsey you and I both know and have loved will be lost forever and when it is, it is only then that people will realise just what they have lost.
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Dave Jones
Nail on the head! Good luck to you. I only wish I could vote for you at the next election.
The tread of your post highlights the fundemental dilema that the Island currently faces.
Alot of people on here and no doubt in the wider community want “progress”. But at what cost?
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