Tenants have quit only tower block
Monday 28th February 2011, 2:29PM GMT.
Kelly Warren and daughters Ocean, 3, and Chelsea, 14, outside their new home at Les Genats Estate. (Picture by Adrian Miller, 1099750)
THE island’s only tower block, the much-maligned Cour du Parc, is now empty.
Residents had long complained that the building in La Charroterie, St Peter Port, was not fit for purpose.
Housing confirmed those concerns when it wrote to all 42 tenants last year informing them that they would be moved.
The intention had been to do so by 2013, but continuing problems with the lift and more housing becoming available meant they were able to vacate it earlier.
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Shame the eyesore isn’t being knocked down.
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i agree with u john it should be knocked down and sorted out the place are falling apart we had bad damp and kids had no where to play thank god we are out of there
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Well there was a lot of uproar when the place was built.-
Yet the States as always said they knew best and so it was built,
Very few liked the place, parents were terrified of that height, because of their children.
Only one option now… Get rid of it and at the same time the States. Both have outlived their use.
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@ Kelly if you are the lady in the above artical good luck to you in the new home and the same goes to every on who has been relocated
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“continuing problems with the lift” does the building not have any stairs?
However, this is always the case with States buildings, they never repair them, they let them get to such a state that they have to be knocked down and rebuilt. Let’s hope they don’t build another ugly tower block in its place.
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I lived at Cour du Parc for 4 years and have to say I never had any complaints. I had moved from an extremely damp flat in the private sector and was greatful to have been placed in such a nice, generous sized flat at Cour du Parc. My neighbours were lovely, my daughter had some lovely friends to play with there, and being in town was perfect for me as i worked in town and my daughter went to school in town.
I think I must be one of the few that has a possitive view on Cour du Parc.
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yes john i am the one from the photo and thank you so much and yes there was stairs but when u had pregnant women living in that place wasnt easy and when u live on the 5th floor an the lift wasnt working i had to get my 10 yrs to helo carry stuff bugging and stuff to get out of the place as my baby was too young to walk, rachel some ppl didnt have a problem but that place should never of been a place for old ppl and children at a young age
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Mr G you do post some rubbish would you want to walk up 10 flights of stairs every day I doubt it
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Mr G
States Housing has spent many tens of thousands on Cour du Parc over the years, however it is a building that has come to the end of its useful life as social housing, and it might make an office block or find some other use that is yet to be decided. As for the lift, it has been repaired many times, it has suffered from vandalism with liquid being poured into the lift car’s electric system on many occasions; buttons super glued by these morons and if you have children or you are getting on a bit the stairs are a real killer climbing them to the top floor’s every day. Also it is very difficult to get parts as it is one of the old style lifts. Besides the lift the building has been regularly maintained but there comes a time when you just have to stop throwing money at the problem. We are much better building new social housing that is well insulated with solar heating and homes that are much cheaper for tenants to run in terms of ever rising utility bills. Cour du Parc does not tick any of those boxes. It is never a good time to make these kinds of decisions but you have to grasp the nettle and move on.
D Jones
Housing Minister
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john add the shopping and children on top of that
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fair comment dave it was really hard living there yes i know ppl use to wee in the lift an all sorts sometimes i didnt want my children in the lift as it was sooo dirty but thanks to the cleaner who i felt sorry for having to clean it day in an day out, i did feel sorry for housing at one point as most of us at cour du parc was always cleaning but it got to the point someone would mess it all up so there was no point what ever.
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I was under the impression that the flats were not meant for people with young children when it was built. I am surprised that in later years children were allowed considering all the over sensitive hype on health and safety issues these days :-D best wishes to all those who have been rehoused somewhere more sensible :-D
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Maybe the benefits system needs changing, I imagine those vandals are on benefits. I don’t understand why Guernsey and the UK are so lenient with their benefits system, those that are on benefits should have to work for them, such as getting small part time jobs like cleaning out the public toilets.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you there Mr G. I have been saying the very same thing for ages. Benefits are handed out like sweeties.
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mr g not all the vandals are on benefits myself an husband are on benefits and we never vandals and i know a few ppl who was on benefits but kept them self to them self why do u think it always the ones on benefits?
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Now we have reached the subject of benefits, I have to say that the system needs a serious overhaul.
One of my staff recently reached retirement age but being fit and healthy, wanted to carry on working for me. However, if he did, he would have crossed a critical earnings threshold and would have lost his entitlement to a States house. Since he would not have been able to afford to rent from the private sector, he has retired.
The system is therefore an incentive to sit at home and watch daytime TV.
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Good Luck Kelly
Mr G what you said about the stairs if you where carrying Bags, push chair, and a child I don’t the stairs are good to use.
But like Kelly said where she lives now has a Garden for her children great out in the summer instead of staying indoors on the play station or watching TV
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Kelly
Because usually, it is people on benefits doing that type of thing, if not the children of people on benfits.
You may be an upstanding citizen, but a lot of benfit claimers are not.
May I ask, why are both you and your husband on benefits?? I understand you have the kids to look after but why both of you??
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All I can say is even with my nice paying job I cant really afford somewhere nice with a garden
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advocate my husband is going in to hospital next week for a shoulder replacement which we have been waiting for a long time now and has taken about 3 years to work out that my hubby shoulder is not as good as it should be and yes we have children but i have an illness with my kidneys and i have bad depression, we hate living on the states aint that good trust me but we hope in a few months my hubby will be back at work an my family can have a good ending
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Why does these kind of stories in th GEP always go down the road bringing up Benefits. Like Kelly said they hate living off the states. Yes there are some people out there who do not want to work and have children so they can claim that’s not fair. I have worked full time up to date so it’s people like us who pay for others.
you only have to go down by the town church and see the younger adults hanging around there that’s what I hate. I think the states should give these people jobs for a month ie cleaning etc and if they do not turn up then they should not given no benefit money
KELLY
Good Luck with your husbands opp
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I’m sorry to hear that you have bad depression Kelly but it’s something I also suffer with and have done so for just over 30 years. I have good days and bad but my illness has never stopped me from working all these years.
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Sarah
You answered your own question, people are fed up of paying for other people who dont want to work. As soon as any subject related to government freebies comes up, people will always bring up benefit.
Its a very emotive subject because people like you and I work damn hard to pay for the XBbox’s, Plasma TV’s and Cannabis for the town church brigade and their ilk.
Kelly
Best of luck with the op. Hopefully your husband recovers quickly and gets back to work.
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& there it is – the ‘D’ word…
I have worked for donkeys years & going to work depresses the heck out of me but I still go!! I have a bad back but I still do a physical job. I am also married & have 2 kids & I can ASSURE you that your new house that I pay for is bigger & has a bigger garden then mine…
Society is geared up for the scrounger – I called the States once to ask for advice & do you know what I was told?? I was advised by someone in Custard Castle that if I gave up work & went on benefits, that I would have more cash left over at the end of the month than if I worked my 40 hour week… I told the person on the phone that the conversation was over & I hung up in disgust.
So dont come with all the poor me scenario – you can work your way out of it if you actually want to!!!
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WH Bonney
Thats the long and short of it isnt it??
People who have pride like yourself will continue to struggle, because you decided that you wanted to work through, despite it being easier for you to “drop out” and take the easy option.
A system that was set up to help the genuinely needy has quickly become abused by any tom dick or harriet who cant be bothered to work. But the best is, the point you highlight, for a portion of society to actually be better off by quitting work shows how messed up the whole system has become.
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Going back to the topic that was first raised – Cour du Parc flats, would it not be a good idea to sell each flat off for private use and make a tidy little sum to put back into the black hole.Its not exactly a premium site to invest in and if the flats were demolished surely you can only replace it with flats.
Dave Jones have you an answer please?
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I believe it should remain empty and put on the tourist guernsey guide front cover
GUERNSEY 2011
May the exodus continue
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hold on one sec i worked till i was 20 years old i am not gonna go into back ground and my hubby did work for over 30 years and we both have paid our stamps so bonney get ur facts rights as u did not pay for my new house we did and as soon as my little girl is at school i will be looking for a part time job as side my hubby who will be getting a job, i did not asked my health problems.
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I’d love a nice big house with a garden but I can’t have one. Why not? Because I’m an honest grafter that’s why.
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PB Falla – and here I am, just wishing the exodus could stretch to taking one more person…
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Why benefit claimants and guest workers.
What about us working class locals who don’t have children so can’t get a states house and have to pay £220 a week for a minging hole from a slum lord.
I would bite their hand off for a chance to live in one of those flats for £100 week.
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Valeite
Partial ownership is also a possibility or outright sale, there are several possibilities we are discussing at the moment.
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steve i agree with u, cant working class have a flat there as long as they have no children it would be great and as long as they are fit as if the lift does break down sometimes it take a few months to fix.
cheesedoff what is ur problem? yes we have a big house an a garden that is not our fault that housing gave us this house as in the eyes of children 14yr old is not allowed to share with a 3 yr old. me an my hubby are honest people i know u dont get many but we are.
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Partial ownership!
Don’t make me laugh Dave Jones, thats the biggest scam housing have ever come out with.
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Steve
I have a relative who is seriously considering partial ownership.Can you expand on the ‘scam’ bit for her benefit
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Can someone explain to me how, if the flats are deemed to be unsuitable for occupation by States Teneants, how the will suddenly become suitable for essential workers. Do Housing propose to replace the faulty lift or make the new tenants only use the stairs? If proper maintenance or replacement of the lift had been carried out, a failing in many of States Departments, then suitable tenants, not families, could be housed there.
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I’m sorry Kelly but what I think is unfair is what Steve has already mentioned. Working class working locals without children can’t get housed by the States and have to pay through the nose for private rented flats which are often in a poor state of repair. Can you blame those of us in this situation for being a bit fed up?
Dave Jones – partial ownership is no good for single people who can’t get a mortgage on their wages. Good idea for couples though.
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Steve
You clearly have little knowledge of the GHA partial ownership scheme or you would not make such a libelous comment, I can tell you, it has been a great success and over 80 couples and families have taken advantage of it, with the first ones moving on with the equity they accrued into homes that they now own by way of a mortgage. Many of these people were high earning tenants who were asked to move on, now they own a percentage of a home that they can trade in for the equity they have built up at a later date. Having moved on into their own homes, the houses vacated remain in GHA ownership for others to benefit from and this scheme will be repeated many times over in the years to come. I have not heard a single negative comment from the people who have benefited from this scheme, only yours. I like Ray would be very interested to hear how PO is considered to be a “scam”.
Nocom
Yes the building will need a new lift it would also be worth considering putting in another lift at the rear of the building so you had two, with the second lift shaft built externally; as I say there are several ideas. Any refurbishment would have to come from private sector funding and not the Guernsey taxpayer through housing, high rise blocks are notoriously expensive to maintain and we can provide much better modern accommodation for families on low incomes at ground level. We don’t need to throw any more millions at this building. Depending on the solution for this block it may be that the Corporate Housing Programme might put some grant funding in if the GHA took on the building but the point is there would be no on going expensive maintenance costs to the taxpayer as any future repairs would be the responsibility of the GHA which is what happens on all other GHA developments. This is the win win situation for the taxpayer; we get lots of social housing for those on our waiting lists without any of the future maintenance costs. On your last point about types of tenants, we don’t house couples without dependants unless they are of pensionable age and clearly a high rise block would not be suitable for them.
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Dave Jones
Why is there no housing made available for single people under pensionable age without dependants?
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Cheesed off
I accept what you say completely about the high cost of private rental but the reality is that the taxpayer simply cannot fund subsidised housing for everybody, if we did taxes would have to rise significantly to pay for it all and we would need a great deal of land to build on to accommodate many hundreds of people who at present live in private rental accommodation on fairly low wages. We have to concentrate on those in most need who are either elderly or who have dependants. I believe we should be doing something to help the group you decide and Housing are currently looking at what that help might be. In Jersey for instance they have a rent rebate scheme that covers the private sector as well but it costs them many millions a year to fund it and the system is far from perfect. I think we could find a better system for Guernsey people who are not eligible for social housing but none the less need help. We also need a minimum standard of accommodation that is enforceable under the law and that is also something that will be coming to the States as soon as we can get it there, in the mean time we have made significant progress with the Private Landlords forum in terms of improving standards. Housing are trying to do as much as we can to help as many people as we can, with the funding available, we have been able to stretch that funding considerably by using the GHA for constructing and maintaining new homes because of their ability to put in many millions of pounds from their own borrowing facility. It is not easy for anyone on a low or fixed income at the moment but we are looking at ways we can help, there is no quick fix solution everything we do to help requires funding and that is the difficult bit.
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Dave Jones
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply.
There are certainly alot of people in the same position as me who seem to have most of their wages eaten up by extortionate rents before even thinking about the other bills that must be paid. Rents increase, utilities increase, petrol and food increase but wages don’t or if they do it’s not nearly enough to cover all the increases and something has to give.
TRP was a recent additon to expenses and now we’re getting the toilet tax too. It’s a struggle to survive if you’re single.
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Its the word “Ownership” I have a problem with.
The way it was explained to me is that you cannot bequeath your “Ownership” of the property. Your title dies with you.
What happens if property prices fall, as they have in Jersey and you have been living in a GHA house and want to help your children get on the property ladder. You can’t sell your part ownership for a profit and cant leave the property to them.
I think the term “Ownersip” is a bit misleading.
It is possible I misunderstood what I was told when I enquired. If so I apologise for using the term “Scam” if I did.
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Could you let me know the criteria for getting a States House to begin with please?
If you have a job, what is the upper limit of this?
Can Deputy Jones confirm that the States are not biased against married couples. I only ask, as it seems to be “easier” for someone who is not married, but has several kids by several “passers by” to get States help.
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Cheesed off, im in the same position as yourself.
I signed up for the partial ownership scheme only to have my dreams of owning my own place shattered because i wasnt suitable / did not fit the criteria (not sure what that is though, do i have to be a irresponsible single parent with 3 kids or have a musculoskeletal injury of never healing sorts???).
I missed the opportune time to buy about 6 years ago, when 100% loans and the states loan was available. I have freinds who with nothing were able to buy a house or flat on one wage without a penny of savings. I have worked my but off and saved a good amount of cash circa 30k which is not bad considering my wages (and smoking, drinking, hobbies… ahem – well i worked for it!) but without help from rich family members which i dont have the only thing i can buy is a crummy little bedsit that wouldnt be fit for keeping ferrets in! Yes i know its a step on the housing ladder but come on, who can live in such a small place for the next 6 or so years (until at least some capital house been earned on the property)?
For a single person trying to buy a home is so difficult, i know i’m not the only one in this situation and their are people who are less well off but i coudlnt care less about them (sounds harsh but thats life).
As for the flats, surely its more cost effective to repair the flats then to consider knocking it down? If as dave says the flats have been maitained then they should be able to serve many people for years to come?
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cheesed off – as much as your predictable and insulting, ‘they’re all the same’, attacks on benefit claimants make me so angry, i do totally agree with your stance on the disgraceful, enormous problem of low income residents having to pay strangulating private rents. in a tiny community of serious and very visible wealth, it often leads to resentment, frustration, anger, domestic breakdown and health problems. there will be an increasing underclass, with other decent people ‘stuffed’ as long as this is ignored. you might ask dave jones why the ability of the states to exercise some private rent (cadastre) control was removed some years ago? ask him who was behind that and do not necessarily be charmed by his man of the people spin. (and how about asking the social security politicians, who make the benefits policy, how much they make as private landlords, from their tenants whose rents are benefit-subsidised? all above board perhaps, but…?)
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Dave,
Thank you for your reply. It would have been nice if the points you make were given in the original article.
It`s good that at least some deputies get involved and answer questions through this medium. It`s a shame there aren`t more of you with the balls to face the public. Respect.
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Steve
I am the same as you, I get hot under the collar about a certain subject and it is not until it is explained to us the why’s and wherefore’s do you really understand and I think it is great DJ and a few other deputies come on here and explain at great length the facts which we would not normally get to hear.
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Another Guernsey Shambles
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What makes me angry about the benefit claimants is the fact that they are encouraged to live their lifestyle because they get more by staying on benefits. I resent the fact that I work my socks off and my taxes subsidise benefit claimants whilst I continue to juggle every penny robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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I think they should put the homeless in the top half of the building. It would help them get off the street and out of the cold. The bottom half they should turn into a zoo to help tourism.
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What about turning it into Open Market flats for rent. £2k per month per flat. Or even £2500. That would give the states a very tidy income
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jk / tj / fatbob / localguern – check out your avatar. we know you are one person.
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Steve
The other term for partial ownership, “is shared equity”This is a brief description of the scheme from the GHA website.
Partial Ownership is a new form of tenure in Guernsey designed to make home ownership more affordable to local first time buyers who would otherwise be unable to purchase their own home. Purchasers buy a percentage of the property, between 40% and 80% of the home. The remainder of the value (equity), of the home is held by the Association on which there is a discounted rent charged.
The purchasers can buy an initial % and then at a later date purchase additional shares up to a maximum of 80%.
The purchasers buy the homes on a 125 year lease.
This tenure is aimed at local people who earn too much to be a priority for rented accommodation but too little to be able to buy on the market. We have now sold partial ownership homes to first time buyers, ranging from 1 bedroom flats to 4 bedroom houses.
We are assessing other opportunities with the States Housing Department to offer more Partial Ownership as we see this as a real chance to provide much needed first time buyer housing.
What is partial ownership?
Partial ownership may help you buy a home if you can’t quite afford the full cost yourself. It lets you buy part of a home and rent the rest.
How do I become eligible for partial ownership?
To be considered you need to:
o Be a locally qualified resident of Guernsey
o Not already own a home
o Have enough funds to manage a home through this scheme – see pages 3 & 4 for details
Existing States’ tenants, GHA tenants and States’ waiting list applicants will get priority for the homes.
How does partial ownership work?
You can buy as little as 40% of the value of one of our homes, or as much as 80%. You can buy more of the home later if you wish, but cannot buy more than 80%.
You have to make your own financial arrangements to buy your home, and most people need to get a mortgage for this. Two banks in Guernsey have given mortgages for partial ownership schemes, the Royal Bank of Scotland International and the Co-operative Bank.
What will I have to pay for?
If you buy, say, 50% of the property, you will initially need:
Ideally, a deposit, usually 5% of the share of the home you are buying
Savings to cover legal fees and a valuation fee
You may have to pay a fee to arrange your mortgage – the bank can advise you about this.
Then, every month you will pay:
o Mortgage repayment to your bank
o Rent to GHA for the 50% of the home we own.
You will also have to pay:
o Service charge to GHA for items such as maintaining shared grounds, insurance of the building, etc
o All the rates on your house
o Your normal household bills including gas, electricity, water, contents’ insurance etc
o Maintenance – you have to pay all the maintenance costs of your home
It is recommended that your rent and mortgage cost no more than one third of your income after tax. Any more and you could find you cannot keep up your payments long term.
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Partial ownership continued.
What happens when I want to sell my home?
You must sell your home back to GHA. The price will be a fair market value, confirmed by an independent valuer. If you bought 50% of the home, you will get 50% of the total sale price, whether the price has gone up or down.
Costs of partial ownership – examples
Example 1 – A 1-bed flat for Miss D and Mr B
This couple need a one bed flat which is for sale for £200,000. They get a mortgage for £100,000 over 20 years to buy 50% of the flat.
The couple’s monthly outgoings are:
£ Repayment of mortgage interest and capital * £722
£ Rent to GHA for 50% of the home * £156
£ Service charge to GHA for communal maintenance, etc. * £65
Total monthly £943
As well, the couple have to budget for rates, maintenance and household bills. They get some help from tax relief on their mortgage interest payments.
*These are estimated figures only and will vary depending on the circumstances at the time.
Example 2 – A 2-bed home for Mr and Mrs P
Mr and Mrs P have a family and need a 2 bedroom house, which is for sale for £280,000. Mr and Mrs P have got a mortgage for £112,000 to buy 40% of the home. The family’s repayments on the flat are:
o Repayment of mortgage interest & capital over 20 years* £815
o Rent to GHA for 60% of the home* £241
o Service charge to GHA for building insurance * £ 5
Total monthly £1061
Mr and Mrs P also have to pay rates, maintenance and household bills. They also get tax relief on the interest they pay on their mortgage.
*These are estimated figures only and will vary depending on the circumstances at the time.
Please note, the cases above are examples only. The prices of future partial ownership homes are net yet fixed, neither are rents or service charges.
What next?
If you think partial ownership could be for you, then:
o Consider your finances and decide if you can afford the outgoings. (Think very carefully if your income fluctuates or if your job is short-term)
o Complete an application form, obtainable from GHA at the address below.
To discuss partial ownership further, contact:
Jemma Bachmann, Housing Officer or Chris Gilroy, Housing Manager on 01481 245530.
Guernsey Housing Association, 6 The Bridge, St Sampson, Guernsey,
GY2 4QW
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Deputy Jones
When is the GHA going to start funding its new builds out of its own pocket? In short, when is the taxpayer getting out?
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Neil
In short, when it has the critical mass to stand on its own two feet. We started at 75% when the GHA was first set up and on the Victoria Ave development the grant funding from the taxpayer dropped down to 10%. I suspect it will not be very long until the States will not have to put in grant funding on the Social housing element of the GHA. We would still have to grant fund the new care for the elderly projects in the first instance and possibly the Key Worker projects if the States agree. The Corporate Housing Programme is a continuing rolling programme, with the next 5 years of that agenda passed by the States in May last year. However the grant funding is reducing on the social element and partial ownership helps to do that considerably.
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