Cut the speed limit to 30 on most roads, says campaigner
Thursday 17th March 2011, 11:30AM GMT.
COAST roads could cope with a 40mph speed limit, concedes Living Streets secretary Pat Wisher.
Her comments come ahead of the States report into the island’s speed limits, which will be released next month.
Mrs Wisher (pictured) said the group had put its views to the States and felt that a 20mph limit around all schools and parish village centres would be a good move.
She felt the speed limit along the coast road could be raised to 40mph because the roadway was wide and visibility good.
But limits on most roads should be lowered to 30mph.
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I’m actually finding myself in broad agreement with this idea – although I personally think 35mph is fine on most island main roads, although I accept the only ones needing changing are some of the lanes. I also think the speed limit around schools could be time restricted.
At least it appears to have been thought through, which is more than can be said for Deputy John Gollop’s completely ludicrous suggestion (heard on Radio Guernsey yesterday lunchtime) to drop the limit to 20mph island wide. When I heard that I honestly thought Comic Relief Day had come early.
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40 mph on coast road – which part(s)?
Where there is no footpath ie Perelle west or
Rocquine very poor idea.
25 mph everywhere then we know where we are.
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Speed limits are hard enough to follow (how many are aware that a 25 mph applies on Colbourne Road)…once you start jumbling up a cocktail of different levels of speed, jumbled brains will, in tandem, fail all the spectrum of tests of speed restrictions.
Make all roads 10 mph and watch how fewer cars peramble on our roads (says he tongue in cheek).
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I largely agree with Mrs Wisher that the speed limit should be 20mph around schools, but with one difference. In Jersey, there are clear signs around all schools indicating that the speed limit is 20mph when the amber lights are flashing. When the amber lights are not flashing, the standard 30mph or 40mph limit applies.
I believe this system should be adopted here, as it is much better than the flat 25mph speed limit that we have around most schools here which applies at all times. Around schools such as the Forest and La Hougette, this speed limit is totally unnecessary at many times, and as such if you routinely drive past outside of school hours when there are no children around, you get into the bad habit of breaking the 25mph speed limit.
If however you then happen to drive past at a time when there are children going in or out, it is easy to forget that you should be slowing down because you are so used to ignoring the speed limit. Adopting the same system that have in Jersey would be much better, as the flashing lights draw your attention to the lower speed limit as you approach the school.
I do realise of course that most schools here do also have amber lights, but they are not as prominent as those in Jersey, and because they have no meaning other than merely being a warning, people drive through on auto pilot without thinking anything of them. If however people know that flashing lights means reduced speed limit, they are more likely to take note.
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Major roads could be 40mph, secondary roads like Route Militaire/ La Ramee etc should be reduced to 30 and all lanes should be tranquil at 15. Roads without footpaths should be reduced.
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Although I don’t necessarily disagree with her it seems like a lot of hassle. Why bother? Its fine as it is. Leave it at 35 and increase certain parts of the coast to 40 if you have to as I suppose that would be the least hassle.
25mph past schools is fine. It doesn’t need to be 20. Most guerns don’t read road signs anyway and seem completely oblivious to the 25mph signs.
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It’s about time Living Streets made up it’s mind!
John ‘Loose Cannon’ Gollop gets some media time earlier in the week advocating his proposed island wide limit of 20mph, and now someone else says 40mph on coast roads is ok.
Oh and by the way, we seem to be moving towards a system where pedestrians are no longer accountable for their own actions – the motorist is artificially slowed just in case a pedestrian should be silly enough to cross the road in front of a moving car.
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Vic – are you John Gollop in disguise?!
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How very interesting that John Gollop makes these statements earlier in the week about speed limit when he does not, and has not ever driven a car!
I guess he thinks he is knowledgeable because he is the Chair of Living Streets – Hmmmmmm . . . . .
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Is this a ruse by John Gollop (whom as far as I’m aware doesn’t drive) to fill the black hole with speeding fines, because how many drivers including myself could drive at 20mph Island wide all the time.
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Keep the road speed limits the same! If it aint broke, don’t try and fix it!!
Changing the speed limits just means that when someone is unaware of the change, its an excuse to give them a speeding ticket and try and plug the black hole
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I go over the speed limit on a daily basis. I agree, 40mph would be suitable for coastal roads. I sometimes get up to around 120mph on my commute to work.
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….ah Paul, I’m rumbled at last…time to get on my Tony Webber mask.
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For once Mr Gollop’s brain seems to have let him down. A drop to 20mph would have a surprising, and counter intuitive, effect on journey times ( in the unlikely event you can avoid traffic jams that is …. )
A drop of 20% in speed fron 25 to 20 actually leads to an increase in journey time of 25%…
The drop from 35 to 20 would lead to a whopping increase in journey times of 75% !!!. I’m surprised the taxi federation didn’t think of it first …..
The problem with speeding is that people speed! If people ignore the current limits I fail to see why they wouldn’t still ignore any new lower ones. Having limits of 20, 25, 35 and 40, which change depending on the time of day and the time of year, makes matters worse not better. The only way to stop speeding would be intensive random zero tolerance policing – prosecute anyone and everyone caught speeding anywhere at any time ……
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Time for my weekly whinge: I hate the way the screw is being increasingly turned against motorists. Driving`s not the fun it used to be. In Switzerland where I live, it`s no better.
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Now now Mr G, you will have the namby pambys frothing at the mouth.
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Yes, 40mph seems a reasonable speed limit to have on the main coastal roads but if this increase is introduced it should be combined with the introduction of speed cameras to catch the speeding kevs and others who go over. 5mph or more above the 40 limit and an instant fine. Anything above 50 and an instant ban plus fine, with the punishment going up as the infractions get more serious.
Also, the 15mph limits for the Ruette Tranquilles should be mandatory not ‘recommended’.
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People are too hung up about speeding anyway. Remove speed limits entirely from the coast roads, but be far more strict in other areas.
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Deputy Gollop … is this man for real?
There’s no doubt that he is intelligent .. he’ll quote Aristotle,Plato,Socrates and any other Brazilian footballer you care to mention till the cows come home,but does he possess a scintilla of common sense? Perhaps its just another of his publicity stunts .. watch out for him being photographed at the opening of an envelope as election day approaches
As for changing speed limits at certain times of the day and making 15mph Ruette Tranquilles official,each new official limit will have to be marked by traffic signs at about £150 plus each with labour.What a pretty site they will be on all our country lanes!
Marcia’s post makes a lot of sense
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Given that Jersey has a 40mph with more road space and long roads in some cases and look at the Channel News today with then doing speed checks and one driver clocked at 97mph I think 35 is probably right for us.
On the same sort of line as vic gamble I ask how many people know that Fountain Street is actually a 15mph limit (it hasnt been changed since the days of cars parked along it every night)
Am with Martino on the Ruette Tranquil – it should be 15mph mandatory , really any lane that is not suitable for 2 cars side by side should be made that , how many of us have had a slippy leaf slide in one of those ?.
@slep , its not so much a case of the screw being turned but the fact that as the years roll by the number of cars has increased dramatically and so has the physical size of cars , lets be honest , the Mini is no longer a Mini. also the school run cars have gone from being Minis in the early 60′s when I was at school to big £60.000 Range Rovers and the such like and NO I am not anti 4×4 before anyone says anything , wouldnt want one though
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I hope that they don’t reduce the speed limit to 30 MPH. I tend to do at least 50MPH along the coast and sometimes faster along the lanes as there is never any police to catch you.
It takes ages to go around doing 30 miles an hour. At the moment some people are doing 30 and you need to go at least 50 or 60 miles an hour to overtake them.
If you drive any slower then around 50 it’s unsafe and other people may need to overtake when in a hurry or late for work.
I’ve only been stopped once for speeding and I did get banned as I was doing almost 60 along the coast but that was just because I was late taking the kids to school.
Yes the coast should be allowed to go faster, maybe 50 or 60 miles an hour would be ok. I wouldn’t go any higher especially when you’ve been drinking.
Just my 2 sense !
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“The problem with speeding is that people speed!”
Got it in a nutshell, Toby….and Deputy Gollop’s masterful plan is to turn cyclists into criminals overnight.
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i completely, completely agree with pat wisher – make the limit 30. then I would consider a few exceptions – lower for some schools and similar, and higher for a few coastal roads.
it is a very strange and complex issue, as much of the judgement will be objective – i.e. what is dangerous or how to measure risk.
i am sure any attempts to lower the limits will be met with a majority of hostile, macho, clarkson-type, freedom stupids, intent on wanting to drive as fast as they can when ever they can get away with it. yet these people actually never get anywhere quicker by driving 5 or 10 or 15 miles an hour quicker in this tiny little playground because the road and traffic system is so dense and criss-crossed. we all watch ‘accelerator & brake’ lemmings staring fixedly over the wheel, doing 40 along pavements and others obviously and dangerously texting, all intent on risking head on collisions around the umpteen blind bends just to … what? just to make up 30 seconds on what will never, never, never be that important. DO NOT RISK THE LIFE OF MY KIDS WALKING TO SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU COULD NOT BE A**** TO GET UP 10 MINUTES EARLIER!!!
the context of our geography is paramount, fundamental. the roads are miniscule and bend and twist dangerously and hazards are legion. the speed limits must reflect that.
i again challenge you to drop your speed to 30 tomorrow and do not exceed it – it took me a few months to change my driving behaviour a few years ago but i did it and i get everywhere more quickly and less stressed by driving slower – honestly. i also save lots of fuel and wear on the car. i also stand up to bullies and lemmings on the road – there are plenty safe ways of doing this and slowly getting other drivers to join in.
driving standards have been getting worse and worse over recent years, because no one will take personal responsibility. this will continue until lines are drawn. the roads do not belong to any one individual but are to be shared carefully. no one seems to get this. i am sure the camps will be divided. i ask the non-selfish, community- minded people to support pat wisher and slow down the selfish and reckless bullies and lemmings on our roads.
ps. pat wisher needs to slap gollop really hard. his opening bid of 20 mph made living streets look silly and can only play into the hands of the selfish speed stupids.
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With the amount of roads that are closed at the moment having enough space to get up to the 35mph limit is rare…………. our traffic commitee is doing a grand job of keeping us moving (at a snails pace!)
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Messing about with the speed limits will do nothing to improve road safety, it’s just an easy target.
The REAL problem is bad driving habits and those with little consideration for others; We’ve all met them on the roads, those that take their turn at filters whether it’s theirs to take or not, those who would rather have an accident instead of waiting 30 secionds for someone to back into their driveway, worst offenders of all seem to be those that pick up their kids from school then rush off home or wherever, funny how once their kids are safe inside the 4×4 the safety of others isn’t an issue, how many speeding drivers did the police stop around schools last month when they had their day of checks.
But this is harder to control unless there’s a policeman around every corner, I think Pat Wisher and her group would be better to encourage education to teach children in secondary schools the rights and wrongs of driving in a Drivers Education class.
Having a hotch potch of different speed limits here there and everywhere will do no more than fill the courts with errant drivers (if they’re caught) and only probably lead to widespread disregard of any limit anywhere simply because people won’t be sure what the limit actually is.
Read some posts above I do wonder about some people, J le C for instance “major roads could be 40 but secondary roads like Route Militaire Le Ramee etc should be 30″ if you don’t condsider Route militaire or the Ramee to be a major road in Guernsey there’s no hope.
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If the Police are so apparently incapable of catching and prosecuting the same group of offenders who have been using the same well worn route as a race track (that we’re all aware of) for years, then, pray tell, how exactly are they going to ensure that we all drive at grandma speed, everywhere, all the time?
Someone please enlighten me.
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Here’s some hard facts, from accident data supplied by the UK Department for Transport:
If you hit a pedestrian -
At 20mph, chance of killing them 5%
At 30mph, 45%
At 40mph, 85%
[source: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/research/rsrr/theme5/researchreport16/pdf/rswp116.pdf
The increase in death rates due to speed is even higher for children (unsurprisingly).
So would anyone now fancy making the argument that their ‘pleasure while motoring’ or ‘shorter journey time’ is more important?
And no, reducing the speed limit from 35mph to 20mph will not increase your journey time by “75%”, Toby – not unless you spent the whole journey bombing along at 35mph exactly. I just checked the mileage computer in my car and my average speed was 19mph – and I generally don’t use it for the slow commute into work.
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I don’t think there is really any problem with the speed limits as they are. the real problem is driving standards and speeding.
I just seems that driving standards just keep getting worse. People seem to have forgotten they have indicators, think its safe to overtake on corners, park on corners, drive down pavements, drive in the middle of the road and speed.
On Sunday i watched someone drive through a busy shop carpark with both hands off the wheel putting their seatbelt on! Unbeleivable!
An lets not forget the buses. Driving on pavements everywhere, coming across the white line on blind corners and just generally having no regard for other motorists. How there hasn’t been a major accident yet is beyond me.
Maybe its time to have a review of vehicle sizes and maybe have a look at the real problem which is driving standards.
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The other thing would be to raise the ban period for speeding , if there was a fixed limit that the ban increased by 1 month per mph exceeded over say 40 in a 35 or 30 in a 25 maybe that would be a deterrent ?
of course that would rely on our police force ..
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@ James; I’m sure those are valid statistics and the biggest part of it is the IF at the start.
The point is that a car driven at 20 mph by someone who is listening to their I-pod, changing the radio station, looking around to try to control the kids in the back seat or retrieving the ciggy they’ve just dropped or swigging a drink or just generally not paying attention to driving is far more dangerous than a car driven by someone fully concentrating on the road and driving at 30 or more mph.
So just slapping a lower speed limit in won’t necessarily have the desired effect.
Before anyone dives in, I am in favour of 25mph speed limits around schools certainly, but as I said in my earlier ramble, education is the key, not legislation.
I suppose the other point is that the speed limit is the MAXIMUM speed, it is not mandatory to do this speed when on a road with that limit, common sense should prevail and drivers should adjust their speed according to conditions, whether that’s traffic, pedestrians, horses, cyclists etc.
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James
Why not ban cars altogether? How can you advocate letting them remain when there’s a 5% chance of someone dying when hit by a car at 20mph. Or should we lower the speed limit to 15mph? Or 10mph maybe?
How low must it be to ensure that there is a 0% chance of someone dying if they’re hit by a car?
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some definite WUMs posting on here – Craig, you will have to be more subtle than that if you want people to bite.
Paul Le Page – don’t worry, speed limits do not apply to cyclists as they are not motorised vehicles.
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Decreasing the speed limits would result in increased fuel consumption. It’s quite difficult to maintain 20mph anyways let alone in 4th gear
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Many accidents witch have killed or severely injured people are caused by people speeding, People on mobile phones and in some cases people over the drink drive limit. Changing the speed limit will not stop these people. Also when you put to many signs, roundabouts, crossings, speed humps, filters, etc and keep changing things on the roads on the island it can cause a lot of distractions and at times confusion with some drives this can also contribute towards accidents if you go overboard with the safety. Leave things as they are.
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The current system ain’t particularly broke so why bother with trying to fix it?
Most (or all) of the recent local road fatalities are related to people speeding well above the limit. A lower limit would make no difference in any of those cases and will just cause widespread frustration amongst the law-abiding majority.
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DA666
Good comments, especially your second one
Matt
Good point also
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@Terry Langlois
is that true ? I know you can get done for drunk in charge of a pedal cycle ( I haven’t been btw )so I am intrigued
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Thanks for the info Terry – my mistake. Thank goodness for that – I was beginning to worry about how it would affect my preparations for next year’s Tour de France!
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Agree with Mrs Wisher.
Another thing they need to look at is roundabout use. Roundabouts are great for traffic management as they are designed so that multiple cars can use them at the same time (making them more efficient than filters). However in Guernsey, the roundabouts (except the main one in town) dont have a centre disk so some people drive straight through the middle (like it is a filter) thereby preventing them from being used as they are designed to be used and confuse other drivers which are using them properly. Many times I have entered a roundabout where I assume the car on the roundabout is going to go around and exit appropriately (as they should do) but instead the other car heads straight for me through the middle (and then usually has the hide to look at me like i am doing something wrong). This would be prevented if only a small low disk was built in the centre to encourage proper use.
I know its slightly off topic but if Pat Wisher or Living streets is reading this please put it down on your list of things to look at.
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I’d just like to add that 20mph around schools would have to be policed to be effective (perhaps camera’s?). Putting time restraints for the speed limit is quite confusing so its better for it to be consistantly 20mph no matter if it is the weekends or holidays otherwise if someone is caught they can just say that they thought it was school holidays or they didnt see the lights flashing etc. Also schools often have events out of hours and on weekends which would require the speed limit to be kept in place. I understand that forest and houguette primary schools are on busy roads but there are well used pedestrian crossings in both of those areas (especially the forest crossing) which road users need to slow down for anyway so the speed limit shouldnt really effect drivers that much when that is taken into account.
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My lane is La Hurette Lane, St Martins….told by the police that it is a 35 mph lane.
Incredible….I doubt even those going fast for this lane would be doing 35.
For these kind of lanes I strongly agree with reducing the speed limit.
Of course any speed limit cannot be enforced all the time but when there is an accident you risk being found out and dealt with appropriately.
I personally drive to the road conditions and adjust my speed for those. While there are some that need their judgement kept in check by rules there are equally those that drive so slow as to make accidents more likely.
So please bring in a minimum speed on our main roads.
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Here’s a radical idea – remove all speed limits but have greater police presence with enforcement measures against dangerous driving antics.
I don’t think it would lead to that significant a change in the average speeds of most roads as the majority just aren’t safe to drive much faster on than the current limits already allow. Hopefully it would also allow drivers to concentrate more on the road ahead rather than staring at the speedo…
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You’d think by all this that Guernsey roads are littered with corpses and smashed up cars.
Classic example of us trying to wrap ourselves up in cotton wool. Yes there’s a risk, but it hardly ever happens.
We have, what, 48,000 registered vehicles. Let’s say half of them make 2 journeys every day. That’s 17.5 MILLION car movements a year. How many deaths a year do we have?
Moreover, how many deaths (or serious injury) have we had at speeds under 40mph? And, how many have been in the types of roads we want to reduce the speed on/outside schools??
All the serious accidents I can recall, horribly sad though they are, when they are driver fault, the driver is usually going at crazy speeds and lowering them will make no odds at all to those individuals.
Perspective everyone!!! I agree with the reduction at schooltimes though on a risk basis.
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Wil – actually, the correct use of mini-roundabouts (ie the ones that you are describing, without a raised middle section) is to drive straight across if that is more convenient. The mini-roundabout only determines who has right of way, not the path of the car.
As for the relative merits of roundabouts and filters – filters work much better where there is one dominant road. With a roundabout, the dominant road will retain right of way while cars sitting at the other entrances have to wait patiently for a break in the traffic – which could be a long time at rush hour. For small junctions, I think that filters work much better (assuming that the population are considerate and obey the rules – they work here but would never work in the UK).
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I think it should stay the same around the Island but some changes should be around schools (but some have road humps) so that slows the traffic and in lanes 35 in a lane it’s crazy too too fast
I think all lanes or small roads should be 15 or 20 or 25. Anyway do people stick to speed limits some do but it is hard in a 25 when you have some driver behind you right up your **** not good
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Terry – I agree with your comments about the filters, however, when it comes to even “mini” roundabouts my understanding is that it is actually illegal to drive over the middle unless it is physically impossible due to the size of the vehicle; you must always proceed in a clockwise direction around a roundabout. If my understanding is incorrect it would be great if you can direct me to where it is stated otherwise.
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To those suggesting speed cameras and other “traffic calming measures” you’ve got to be kidding, right?
Speed cameras are an utter waste of money, the police/states would spend more in setting up the cameras and performing maintenance than actually making money from the fines.
The current system works quite well.
Higher than 25mph in a 25mph – Usually a fine
Higher than 41mph in a 25mph – Fine + Ban
Higher than 35mph in a 35mph – Usually a fine
Higher than 51mph in a 35mph – Fine + Ban
I image they change in different circumstances.
Best bet is to drive at a recommendation of 125mph, this way you will exceed the speed that their little Astras can go, unless of course they use their Beemers for catching terrorists – but with all that bullet proof glass it may weigh them down a bit.
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Out of interest why can a Truck drive at 25 in a 25, yet on the main roads still have to remain at 25 in 35′s. All trucks these days stop quicker than a car and have much more efficient braking systems. After all they are designed to travel and stop at high speeds on motorways etc… therefore meaning they have over capable stopping capacity for over here.
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Wil – apologies, I have just checked the Highway Code and you are correct. It seems that I was taught incorrectly all those years ago!
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The speed limits are about right for the roads at present with the exception of the lanes. I would agreewith a 15mph limit in them. The crux of the matter is would the limits be policed or would they be just another unenforce law.
Wil’s point on roundabouts is a perfect example I would guess that 90% of cars negotiating roundabouts are breaking the law yet nothing is done about it.
It’s the same with schools, if many of the parents colleting their children parked sensibly and legaly many of the problems regarding safety around schools would disappear.
Speeding is only a symptom of the problem, the problem is bad driving and that can be combated by stricter policing. But then we’ll be deafened by the “poor old motorist” brigasde.
John Gollops 20mph proposal is typical of a none driver. If he drove he would know that 20mph is the defacto speed at most times in the east of the island.
If someone cannot drive safely at 35mph in normal driving conditions then they shouldn’t be driving.
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This is just a revenue generation scheme with the police as collection agents.
Where’s the evidence supporting the change just another attack on people’s freedoms and liberty
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Traffic jams? what traffic jams? That problem could be resolved at a stroke. Close all the Schools!. Simples!
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Mr G, I wonder whether you should enter the Sprint.
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As a yearly visitor to Guernsey I think the speed limit is just fine as it is,if you drive like a human being with thought for others health and welfare you will have no problems.There are many places on the Island where it is unsafe to drive at the allowed speed,even 10MPH may be too fast.But I do notice if I stick to the speed limit someone is always trying to crawl up my exhaust pipe?So hands up everyone who has never exceeded the speed limit,maybe a shortage of angels it may seem?
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(slep) Been there, done that,
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I must say that the 20mph flashing amber lights and signs near Jersey schools are really the most effective. They are the one and only sign that I always take notice of. Other times I am liable to drive at what I perceive to be a sensible speed (well most of the time anyway).
Speed limits that have no relevence to ongoing conditions are most likely to be ignored by the majority of drivers.
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Matt: I wondered how long it would take before somebody had a “bus rant”
All buses are fitted with speed limiters set to 25mph. Maybe if all vehicles in Guernsey were fitted with them, compulsorily, then we could finally put an end to the speed limits dispute.
And you contradicted yourself by mentioning poor driving standards by bus drivers, then wondering why there hasn’t been a major accident involving a bus. Because it always seems to be cars that people are being cut out of recently, and not a bus in sight! Strange that, isn’t it?
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Mr G – the police wouldn’t need to catch you at 125mph – they’d just have to sit back and wait until you hit the next granite wall. Then all they’d have to do is scrape you off….would save the courts time as well. ;-)
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Guernseasider,
If you actually read my post and not just zeroed in on the bus part you would see that I said the problem isn’t speed limits but vehicle sizes and driving standards. This applies to many motorists but also to the buses.
By law of averages there will be far more car crashes. Accidents involving cutting people from the reck usually involve speeding. So no, it is very unlikley to hear of someone being cut from a bus.
But is that what you class as a major accident? would a pedestrian being hit by a bus/car driving down the pavment not be a major accident?
Bus, 4×4, car, whatever, it dosen’t make a difference. It would be very hypocritical of me to slate some motorists and then say nothing about the buses.
As I said, vehicle sizes are a problem and it is made worse when they are driven poorly or with no regard for saftey and laws of the road.
If you can not see that the buses, like many other vehicles are to big for this island then I would say you are the one having a rant just because I critised the buses.
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s’cuse me but…..in the recent Police checks around St Sampsons High (inconveniently crowbarred into an area that was entirely unsuitable), wasn’t there rather a lot of PARENTS who were caught breaking the speed limit set in the Crystal Maze-esk traffic system round there?
I personally have seen many a 4 x 4, being driven by a safety conscious parent (children securely strapped in the back of the 4 x 4, bought for additional ‘safety’) playing pavement chicken with pedestrians/parents/pushchairs/other people’s children, as they mount them at full speed down our narrow roads…
so perhaps Mrs Wisher would find her time equally well spent lecturing parents, rather than punishing the rest of us with walking speed only limits all over the island…?
ps. I am sure her picture wasn’t taken anywhere near St Sampson’s High, or the hat would have wisely been replaced with a crash helmet.
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Matt: I knew I could get you to elaborate!
And you know what? I agree the buses are too large for Guernsey! And this from a bus driver!!!
Your other observations are commendable too.
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Scarlett:
Make your mind up man:
Scarlett | March 18, 2011 at 9:11 am
“If the Police are so apparently incapable of catching and prosecuting the same group of offenders who have been using the same well worn route as a race track…..”
Is rather in conflict with your last post isn’t it? So, is it the same group of offenders using the roads as race tracks, or parents taking their kids to school?
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I assume this random outbreak is due to the hundreds of accidents that happen every day due to the unsuitable speed limit on the roads? oh wait, what a load of rubbish. the speed limits are fine, i think 40 would be good everywhere except round schools, maybe people should just be taught how to drive properly and there wouldnt be any issues, you cant point a finger at any group, the north beach crew or the mums in 4×4′s as how often is it that they actually do any damage? every now and again i suppose, which could happen anywhere at any time…. do we really want to become a nanny state like the UK where we cant do anything without worrying about pathetic people of this island having no backbone and ability to deal with things.
and yes i am from guernsey myself.
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just leave it as it all is…
those who speed are going to speed anyway
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Paul Le Page, why would I hit a granite wall? I haven’t seen any along the huge stretch of coast road near Pembroke.
In all seriousness though, the speed limits are fine, if they’re going to change anything why not make the coasts around 40-45mph, and maybe change to a similar system to Jersey’s around schools.
All the rest seems a waste of money, and I imagine it was a lot of money too.
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It’s both, Truth man, and the commonality they have is that whether it’s kev running or pavement surfing, the Police fail to consistently deal with either, so what exactly is the point of more draconian rules for all, when they can’t even implement the existing ones with the offenders?
(My comment ref Mrs W and parents was strictly tongue in cheek, I fully expect her to keep banging on about kiddy safety and how we should all travel round in horse and carts in case there’s a child within a 5 mile radius)
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I don’t know what’s wrong with the 35mph limit. It’s not likely to stop any serious crashes as these usually involve people going well over this limit. It irritates me that the 25mph limit by schools is still in force when the schools are closed.
Have you noticed that the 15mph or 20mph limits that are put in place when there are diversions are largely ignored? so if the general limit was lowered you would just get more people exceeding the speed limit, with no effect on roads safety.
If some people had their was we would soon be driving around at 4mph, with a man walking in front with a red flag!
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@ Craig – “Yes the coast should be allowed to go faster, maybe 50 or 60 miles an hour would be ok. I wouldn’t go any higher especially when you’ve been drinking.”
please tell me this is a joke?
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Guernseasider: Hook, line and sinker is all I can say!
Nice to see bus drivers agree, you don’t get to chose what you drive.
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I’ve got no issue with most of the lanes being 20mph. Seems reasonable to me. The message of lanes = slow wouldn’t be a bad thing.
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NOW THIS COULD BE A VERY DISPUTED POINT. THE POLICE CANNOT CATCH ALL THOSE THAT IGNORE OUR PRESENT SPEED LIMITS SO WHAT IS THIS A BACKDOOR METHOD TO FILL THAT BLACKHOLE IN THE BUDGET. HOWEVER NOT BEING LOCAL I CANNOT FOR CERTAIN SAY WHEN THESE SPEED LIMITS WHERE PUT IN PLACE. CARS AND ALL VEHICLES HAVE IMPROVED BEYOND MANY EXPECTATIONS IN RECENT YEARS MEANING ABS, EBD AND VARIUOS OTHER IMPROVEMENTS TO BRAKING SYSTEMS MEAN CARS ARE EASIER TO SLOW DOWN NOW. HOWEVER THAT DOESN`T MEAN DRIVERS ARE ANY BETTER THAN WAY BACK WHEN. I THINK I SIDE WITH ITS NOT REALLY BROKE SO DON`T GO FIXING IT. ANOTHER THING IF LIMITS WERE RAISED WOULD SPEEDS FOR ALL VEHICLES BE INCREASED. I HOPE SO I`M FED UP GETTING STUCK BEHIND BUSES WHICH DON`T HAVE THE ACELERATION TO PASS CYCLISTS.
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I think Scarlett is right that the police have shown themselves to be incapable of catching the speeding nutters. And I don’t mean those who edge up to 40 in a 35 zone because of a lack of concentration. We all do that and that’s not really speeding. The ones we’re all concerned about are the real nutters (mostly young men) who treat certain roads as race tracks and drive deliberately at horrifying speeds when they know the police won’t be there. These kids can run rings around the police in that respect so why not use technology in the form of permanent speed cameras to catch them? I’m sure it would go a long way to solving the problem.
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Blimey Brian I get your point – no need to shout!!!
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Martino. If you want speed cameras why don’t you go and live in England. Either that or pay for them entirely from your own pocket.
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Island coachways already use the 20mph speed limit , however that is on the pavements !!!!
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Scarlett, Martino…
I agree, the police have failed in this area. Similarly you have both failed to sprout wings and fly.
The police are given finite resources to deal with every problem thrown at them, speeding is just one of them. Therefore, I like Martino’s suggestion of dealing with this with technology. Since there cannot be a police officer on every street 24 hours a day, we should use speed cameras and other traffic calming measures to allow the police to concentrate on other areas without having to worry about people suggesting they have failed in their impossible task.
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@SS
I must admit I haven’t looked into the economics but I’d have thought they’d be quite a nice little earner with all the fines they’d result in.
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In response to Martino saying its mostly young drivers… it is in fact internationally known that women drivers are generally more dangerous, especially when they decide to drive 4×4′s and are completely unable to handle them. you cant point the blame at young male drivers as that is actually incorrect. Some of them may drive at high speeds but only a very tiny percentage of them actually crash and cause damage, its the accidents that everyday people do which is the concern which the states seem to be missing. anything to point the blame at youth.
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Martino. I have seen the figures for how much they cost, and then how much they cost to install. Can’t remember what they were but this idea has been brought up before with Guernsey basically saying we can’t afford them.
Aside from that, one of the nice things about Guernsey is that we have a slightly more relaxed environment, and don’t have all the oppressive rules and regulations that England does. Accidents will happen but our road safety record here is pretty good and does not need any changes. Its fine as it is.
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I accept your point SS but Bob, when the woman in the 4×4 has an accident it’s usually a little ding that doesn’t result in any significant injuries. When the speeding kevs (and they are mostly young and male) lose control they end up killing or maiming either themselves or, much more importantly, killing or maiming an innocent third party. Speed does kill and I say that as someone who has no wish to reduce the current limits, just to make sure they are enforced rigorously to stop mad drivers.
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I wonder how many people are aware of the speed limit on every road they drive on. Regardless, you just know what speed is safe and what is not. I don’t need to look at my dashboard to tell me that I’m driving too fast around a corner, past a school, or down a lane. 35mph might be the limit but that doesn’t mean you have to be driving at exactly 35mph around a corner in the wet. 35/40mph still feels slow on a wide open coast road, but most would agree that 20/25mph with kids crossing the road around you is still too fast, so if people just learn to drive properly and use their common sense then we shouldn’t have a problem.
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” it is in fact internationally known that women drivers are generally more dangerous, especially when they decide to drive 4×4’s”…
what?
If you want to get a quantifiable idea of comparative risks of different groups of motorists, contact any motor insurance company and look at the premiums they charge (which are of course based on risk of accidents and costs per accident).
Who are charged the highest premiums? Young men.
How about doing a bit of research before you post rather than dressing up your prejudices as fact?
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I would just like to point out that these “nutty young men” are actually some of the better drivers on this island wether there going 50 or not, when your car becomes one of your main interest you make it a priority that its not going to get broken, learning more about your car and understanding how certain things work and effect how your car handles gives you a much greater insight when your actually driving, ok there may be a few exceptions but there always will be no matter what you do or where you go, bringing in a 20mph limit will simply clog up the courts in a matter of weeks and i can absolutely guarantee you the “north beach crew” will still be in full force regardless, if people want to go fast how about trying to give them a place to go fast every so often instead of telling them your going to make them go slower?
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Stallion. Completely agree and its an argument for removing speed limits altogether in my opinion. If you need a big, round, lolly pop sign to tell you how fast you should be driving, then you shouldn’t have a driving licence in the first place.
A road might be safe to do 50 at one particular point in time, but half an hour later it could be unsafe to do 25, as the conditions are forever changing. It should always be down to driver judgement. If you are unable to make a reasonable judgement as to what is a safe speed, then you are unfit to drive.
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1. I think that broadly speaking the current speed limits are suitable for our roads. There are however areas which require some adjustment to the permitted maximum speed allowed. For example, accident black spots, single track lanes and schools (at the approprriate times.)
2.Regardless of what speed restrictions are put in place people will exceed those limits, albeit by even a few miles an hour. There will also be those drivers who will exceed the speed limits with little or no thought to the consequences. these people are in the minority and are the people who need to be targeted rather than Mr & Mrs average.
3.I notice that no one has mentioned pedal cyclists. It is very easy to travel at a speed in excess of 25 or even 30 mph on a pedal cycle. I presume that any speed restrictions will apply to pedal cyclists as well as cars. If so how will speeding pedal cyclists be reported for speeding offences? They have no means of identification by way of numberplates.
Also, I am aware that club cyclists and the like are often to be seen travelling well in excess of speed limits while engaged in road races and certainly exceed speed restrictions.If speed limits are reduced to the degree suggested then surely pedal cyclists have to conform to the requirements of the law as well.
4. Reducing the speed ‘limits’ will have a knock on effect on all aspects of Guernsey life, slower speed equates to higher petrol consumption which will lead to higher delivery costs which in turn will increase the cost of food and goods.
Slower speeds will also increase fuel usage generally, increase CO2 emmisions and impact upon our air quality thereby being more harmful to the pedestrians and cyclists (some of whom advocate a reduction in the speed limits.)
5. I apologise for the lengthy post, but if as suggested in yesterdays Press there is not a widespread speeding problem what exactly are the proposals aimed at doing? Why try to fix a problem that does not exist? Surely it would have been better to focus on issues that have been evidenced as being dangerous to road users generally like……reducing the size of Guernsey buses to reduce their width and therby reduce the amount of times where they have to mount footpaths.
Or perhaps the Courts /States should look to draconianly increasing the fines for excessive speeding. Fine someone £1000 for travelling in excess of 15mph above the speed limit and that would see some results over a reasonably short period if time!
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Extending the debate to speed limits and road deaths correlation in Guernsey is a blind alley.
The Halfway tragedy had nothing to do with speed limits. The recent death of a man on North Side had nothing to do with speed limits as neither did the St Saviour motorcycle death, nor the one at Plaisance.
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Neil.
St Saviour motorcycle death?
I dont recall that. When was it?
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What is the reasoning behind the need for changing the speed limits around Guernsey. Is it to increase revenue by way of fines for speedsters. The Police have already indicated at they are not in a position to allocate the resources. Is it because there are a great deal of serious accidents… I dont believe there are many serious accidents at all. Guernsey has a great record for the lack of accidents…Is it because the UK are currently considering a change to the speed limits and we ought to be following what they are!!
I suspect a great many people as indicated by the stats attached to the report simply drive at the appropriate speed for the conditions and the road ‘geometry’ and ignore the signs. It is true that almost all of the serious injuries or deaths in Guernsey are caused by excessive speed, drunk driving or other causes not related to a number on a sign somewhere nearby. Surely it is crazy for ‘us’ to be considering spending so much money on something which appears to have no real basis of logic or real advantage to anyone. I’m all in favour of increasing speed limits allowing people on major roads to drive at a more reasonable speed when conditions allow and rely on common sense and reasonability of the majority of drivers to drive within normal sensible limits as appears to be the case from the statistics as backed up by the Police. Those individuals who want to speed will do it regardless of the measures we might try and put into place. We should probably try and concentrate upon other more fundamental problems in Guernsey like population problems and traffic issues. More and more regulation of this sort apart from costing a lot and having no perceivable value serves only to make life less enjoyable and more frustrating.
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Increace the speed limit by 5MPH each year until the population of the island is under control.
It the only fun fair engine we have to reduce the size of the islands population.
As pedestrians are usally drunks, drug addicts or have medical conditions that prevent them from driving, targeting these people will enchance the quality of the surviving gene pool.
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Why are we wasting time with something that is not a problem only in the eyes of a few, yet again The States are wasting our money on something that is not broke, but want to fix it!
Leave good alone and sort our some of our real problems and try and DIVERT some of the energy of those involved into a good project that the Island will benefit from rather than suffer,if they can find their way around!
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Ken!
I have to take exception to your comment
“Also, I am aware that club cyclists and the like are often to be seen travelling well in excess of speed limits while engaged in road races and certainly exceed speed restrictions”
Please define “well in excess”.
Sustaining any speed above 35mph on a bike is virtually impossible,even a modern race bike, at or near 35 is just about doable for short periods of time but in excess? Certainly not in Guernsey.
Where races do pass through 25mph limits, St Peters Village,Cobo, Rocquaine and Kings Mills (the only places where races are held with lower limits), it is virtually impossible to ride above 25mph due to filters, junctions and road funiture.
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@SS Motorcyclist at the back of the resevoir ~ either last year or the year before. The lad Thompson
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Ken – just like to point out that as the law stands speed limits don’t apply to horses, cyclists and pedestrians.
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It’s vital you keep the limit low an lower. By increasing the limit in any area, you allow at least a 10mph increase over the stated limit. How many people do 20 in a 20? Nil, 30 in a 30? Not many, 40 in a 40? None. 60 in a 60? You having a laugh? 70 in a 70? Now you’re being stupid. This whole driving/riding thing needs to be looked at differently. Extremely severe punishment if driving too fast and a short [1 hour maybe] session on advanced driving. Planning, smooth driving, road positioning and special tuition on how kids, elderly and the “unaware” behave outside their homes would be a good place to start. I’m advavced trained on motorbikes and cars. I think people would find it interesting and very enlightening. The current licence test provides a basic understanding of driving, and i mean basic. Prevention is vital. Any monkey can accelerate a car/bike.
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