Most roads could have 20mph limit
Tuesday 22nd March 2011, 2:30PM GMT.
Hampshire Inn licensee Peter Leigh points out some of the vehicle scrape marks left in the narrow L’Etonnellerie Lane near the pub which the working party wants made 30mph instead of the current 25. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1112726)
DRIVERS could be forced to abide by a 20mph ‘island limit’ under plans unveiled by an Environment Department-led working group.
While some roads would see speed limits increase, new restrictions would almost halve the current 35mph imposed in the island.
The draft proposals have been placed in the public domain for consultation and would need to be taken to the States for approval.
A handful of ‘major roads’ could see the limit increased to 40mph, and school children would also be further protected with the introduction of a 20mph ‘part-time’ limit during set times.
Click here to download a map showing the proposed changes. This link will take you to the States’ website which has links to the full consultation report.
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Why do people not seem to understand that raising limits, is that, a limit, not a target.
Just cause it is 40, doesnt mean everyone will be hooning around at 40.
Also, all this hit people at 40 and 20 lark. Do cars not have brakes. are people not going to slow down before any kind of impact, meaning they will actually hit them at a very small speed.
This whole thing smacks of who can shout loudest. And who can get on the front of the press standing in the smallest lane.
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Why not just make all the roads around schools 20 all the time with those illuminated road signs like the ones by Baubigny School and leave the current speed limits as they are everywhere else.
Filters by Forest school junctions – this works at the airport entrance and is relatively low cost.
No idea why this has been made as complicated as it has been… total waste of time and money!
As for making the island 20-25 everywhere……. how stupid can you get!
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I would like to vote yes but I beleive that smaller roads/Lanes should be made between 15,20,25 mph but no not all roads should be less then 35 as you may find there will be overtaking at high speeds etc…
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What do vehicle scrapes have to do with speed limits exactly?
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Glanzstar
Good points made
Many of these doomsters paint the blackest picture possible, where cocooned safety concerns override all other factors
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Do the environment department know how difficult it is to drive/ride at 20mph consistently?
It is very difficult to stay at 20mph especially on scooters. 25mph is fine as it is as it is possible to keep that speed easily.
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I fail to comprehend our States departments sometimes – they say there is not a real speeding problem but then come up with a plan to make huge and pointless changes to the limits.
In the current climate we do not need this sort of stupidity, if there is not a problem why try to change things at what will be huge cost disruption and inconvenience. Probably the only gainers will be the boys in blue when they are looking to top up the States coffers with needless and pointless speeding fines.
Peter
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How much is this ‘discusion’ costing?
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5mph everywhere!
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Absolutly pathetic is all i can say… there aren’t exactly many incidents as it is and there will still be the same amout of incidents even if the roads are changed… i thought we had a financial crisis on our minds and im pretty sure thats a bit more important than a few poxy speed limits which are just idiotic.
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Yet another waste of money.
Things are quite ok as they are.
If this is all that is keeping some civil servants in employment then then God help us all.
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The speed limits are not the issue, speeding is.
If traffic kept to the existing speed limits then that would be an improvement.
Not all coast roads could support an increase, and when you increase speed limits all it does it make people go just that little faster again, so what was 40 in a 35 becomes 45 etc.
Better to keep the limits already in place but enforce them!
Keep it simple.
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I’d like access to the States orchard where they’re growing money on trees – I don’t understand why they’re wasting so much money when the current speed limits are fine.
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For god sake leave it as it is and stop wasting everybodies time and money.
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I had to check the date to make sure April 1st hadn’t crept up on me! Seems to me that there are too many Civil Servants with too much time on their hands.
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Guern abroad, there are more serious crimes than catching some speedsters.
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This report is pretty much useless without accident figures and the times of day the figures were collected. All it shows is people speed far more often in 25mph zones. Hardy any grounds to reduce the island limit to 20mph is it!
Use the data to sort out the problem areas and leave the rest as it is.
I doubt many people will swallow that rubbish they have reported.
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SB, I wondered the same. Most probably lorries caused the scraping, nothing to do with the speed.
Flippin heck, this island is going mad!
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“Environment Department-led working group.”
Says all I need to know about the “quality” and validity of this report.
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All they need do is look to Jersey where they recently reduced speed limits in one parish from 40 to 30. Guess what? Since then, there have been 4 pretty serious accidents on the main road in that parish that this change was supposed to reduce the accident rate on!
I’m guessing it’s because a) some ignore speed limits regardless and/or b) at lower speeds some pay less attention to the road as the perceived risk is lower (i.e. less speed, less damage in an accident)
It won’t be long before we are required to have a person walking in front of our car waving a red flag…
As to permanent 20mph limits past schools mentioned above, no, that’s ridiculous. Time limited 20mph zones are a far better idea, after all, is little Johnny really going to be running out of the school gates at 3am?
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Eh
All you need to do to get the traffic down to 5mph is to encourage more cyclists onto the roads
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Ah, Gilthead and his “Any chance to have a pop at Civil Servants”.
I’m sure we’re all smart enough to know that the CS’s just carry out the instructions of their political masters, who in turn carry out the instructions of the States collective.
So if you want to have a go at anyone over this (and I think it’s barking mad too) then your elected rep who voted for this review is to blame!
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Here in Canada, there are variable speed limits, notified by standard signs, the cops are good at getting you as well if you break them, school zones are 20 between 8 and 5 and 60 at other times, it works well, a number of roads should be 40, 20 should be max for lanes.
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I have just sent the following to Environment dept,what do you think?
Dear sirs,
Having just looked at the map of proposed new speed limits, it seems totally ridiculous. How is everybody expected to learn all where any one of the six possible speed limits applies. It seems totally random. For example a journey from the grange to cobo the speed limit is changing all the time.
I would propose the following suggestions:
All rural lanes to be 25mph.
All town area to be 25mph, perhaps made obvious by painting double white lines across all “entry” roads into the town area to make this clear. Also applicable to the Bridge area.
All major routes to be 40mph, unless designated black spot, or known area of accident history.
All school areas to be 20mph, in school startin/finishing times.
It should be bourne in mind that modern vehicules are able to accelerate and stop a lot more quickly than vehicules of yesteryear, and are a lot safer as regards pedestrians, as well as the occupants.
Finally, there are always those who will speed, nothing can be done about this, part of life….
Simples, who needs a massive report to come t these conclusions?
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At first i thought this was there new money makeing strategy for 2011, just think how many of us would accidently speed past 20? i completly agree with what glanzstar says, “its a limit not a target” half the time you cant even do 20mph because of how the traffic is anyway,keep the limits as they are,if anything raise them in certain areas, instead maybe introduce a yearly brake test seeing as we dont have M.O.T, and increase the age of which you can drive from 17 to 18-19? its the drivers that cause accidents not speed limits.
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what happens to buses & trucks will they be 15mph
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saw the picture i know that road it must be one of the skinyest roads in the islands there is nothing wrong with the speed limits just lack of consideration and driving ablity
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So, fuel efficiency would suffer at such low speeds, meaning more fuel burnt, meaning more fuel to buy, meaning more tax paid, but more pollution. When I asked a young lady armed with a speed gun what she was doing in our road, she said
that she was monitoring the average speeds of vehicles. However, she was only there 10 minutes, which to me, is not a good basis for any report on speeds on our road.
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Be careful everyone – This sounds like another smoke screen released by The States to get you all flapping. Just check to ensure that The States aren’t using this to cover the passing of some other more important or unsavory changes.
Or else it is just another waste of time debate to make them feel important. You all know this will fizzel.
By the way – most people jog faster than 20 MPH. Maybe this is a fitness push to get you out of your cars and running. Wouldn’t actually hurt the 40% of you who need the exercise.
Have fun Guernsey!!
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The next thing we hear on this pointless excercise is that there will have to a be a expensive consultation “expert” bought in.
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….really? So with all the modern technology and advances in cars these days there considered less safe? i mean thats essentially whats being said, i for one know im more alert going a speed that requires that rather slouching around at 20 not paying much attention, infact id go as far to say a lot of older vehicles would be more prone to locking the wheels and skidding from sudden braking at such low speeds and you cant discount the number of old bangers on this island….or old people for that fact, went out for a drive the other day and got pulled out on numerous times by perodua drivers mainly and if i hadnt had the momentum i had (35mph) to get around them i would have been in the side of them
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“Most people jog faster than 20 MPH”
I don’t think so Ex Guern. Even our best ever distance runner Lee Merrien can hardly manage 13 mph flat out over a half marathon distance (I think his best is about 62 mins for the 13.1 miles). Most ‘joggers’ take about eight minutes to cover a mile and even decent club runners don’t do much better than a mile in six minutes while training!
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Billythefish – true. I’m not having a go at individual civil servants – far from it.
However if this is the most productive they can be then, surely, fat needs to be trimmed.
I’m sorry to bang on about this but my taxes are increasing because the current administration simply cannot rein in spending.
I’ll wager that this nonsense cost round about bowel cancer screening for a year – I know where I’d put the cash.
Its just waste pure and simple.
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A little food for thought:
Cars optimal performance speeds for C02 emissions is an average between 35 and 45 mph (variances per manufacturers vehicles). In testing of these emissions it has been noted that non optimum performace and traffic congestion significantly increases C02 emissions.
http://www.uctc.net/access/35/access35_Traffic_Congestion_and_Grenhouse_Gases.shtml
The proposed decrease in speed limits (for no actual tangible reason) will significantly increase the C02 emissions of Guernsey.
Cars are also designed to be most efficient at these speeds, so to reduce it to 20 will cost each driver directly in his own wallet. The decrease in speed will return you lower mpg, thus increasing your fuel costs.
Also, the reduced speeds will also increase journey times around the island, especially for deliveries / commuters. The journey times could increase by 50% on some journeys, considering it takes approximately 25 minutes to travel from one end of the island to the other, that means the same journey could now take up to 40 minutes (drop someone off at the airport and then drive home – 1hr20 minutes). This also means your taxi fare is going to increase sharply for the same journey!
Its interesting that no eco-warriors have even given this the slightest bit of consderation. Certainly our states members arent going to, that kind of thinking would largely be beyond them.
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The Guernsey Association of Hedgehogs must have put in a complaint that too many of its members were getting splattered.
Solution – hover all vehicles a few feet above the ground a la Star Wars “Zoomer”.
ps – good luck you lot. You’re heading back to horses and carts.
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The number doesn’t mean anything unless you police it.
DON’T change the current speed limits- save money on endless consultation, changing all signage (and the nature of such), education, change management etc.
DO spend money policing current system by erecting speed cameras around ALL schools. Its only the hoons who would object. Speed limit of 25 + camera = cars effectively travel at <20. Simple.
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The report says we don’t have a speeding problem in Guernsey at the moment so leave it alone. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. If you reduce the limit then we will have a speeding problem! If someone is doing 50mph they are not taking any notice of the current speed limit so making it lower will not make any difference. All it means is the current good drivers will become law breakers trying to stick to the new limits. Don’t the states have better thinks to do and more important things to spend our money on?
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Will the last motorist to leave Guernsey please turn off the lights.
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Hang on. This article says “Most roads could have 20mph limit”. But the other one says “cut the speed limit to 30 on most roads, says campaigner”. So which is it, 20 or 30?
Not that it matters I suppose, the whole idea is bloody ridiculous.
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If the Environment Department would just stop messing around and just concentrate on the important things (like black spots maybe). I have never known of a more useless bunch of self righteous morons. All we hear everyday now is what a complete mess the Environment Department is making of this island. Its about time we got people who know how to do the job and got rid of these Imbeciles.
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Judging by the threads ,it seems that people think that guernsey authorities and indeed some private citizens have gone mad ,even to entertain a discussion on this ,it’s worse,it appears in these troubled times , when there is a lot more to worry about that we are in the grip of complete lunacy almost as gobsmacking as the “let them eat cake thing” this is why i don’t buy the press,or any nationals or listen to the radio ,everyones gone bloody mad .
Peter, go back on the the press and explain that the lane you are refering to (although i see how you are trying to prove your point) is little more than narrow access to properties and anyone who goes up there with a car bigger than a micra and at a speed of more than 5 mph ,is one of the above mentioned mad ones ,the road dictates the speed as with most in guernsey ,an interesting point there is that if the authorities said that they were imposing an island wide blanket speed of 100 mph (one hundred mph)there would be uproar from people saying that it’s impossible to do those speeds and they will stick to a much safer 35 thanks weird that eh .and zeb, assuming a clear run speed makes no difference to your taxi fare it,s done on mileage not time (unless you are stopped by road works which are thankfully rare in guernsey)
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You poor people, sounds like your government is even less competant than ours. We’ve recently had one man, a parish constable decide that the speed limit in his parish should be reduced by 25% to 30mph. This parish contains some excellent roads including a good stretch of coast road with little housing and good visibility.
Until recently the only person hurt on this road was a poor woman killed by a police car travelling at excess speed.
Speed doesn’t cause accidents, bad driving does, modern cars have excellent braking systems, also driver stability aids and 5 star crash protection, cars have never been safer so why reduce the speed limit in an ill informed attempt to reduce accidents.
Inforce the limits you have and take bad drivers off the road, stop trying to appease those few idiots that think speed is dangerous.
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Zeb,
I think the ‘eco-warriors’ are too busy reeling from the utter absurdity of everyone chunging around an island with a speed limit of 35 mph in vehicles which are capable of doing 100 and fail to operate efficiently until they get to 50.
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It would appear that the objective of the working group is twofold.
Firstly, to raise revenues by making the speed limit an unmaintainably low speed thereby providing a simple way of raising revenue by fining people for speeding.
Secondly to increase the number of accidents on the island by frustrating drivers into furious bouts of road rage, thereby proving that cars are unsafe, with a view to banning them altogether at some as yet unspecified future date.
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Jersey Mulvie…..
It is a combination of speed and bad driving that causes collisions. The exact terminology is “excess speed for the conditions”. There is no doubt that speed is the number one cause of collisions – think about it, if we never moved our cars there would be no collisions. The problem with your theory is that none of us are experts in judging what the best speed for the conditions is at all times. Therefore, speed limits need to exist to guide us all. Statistics show that the lower the limit, the fewer collisions (specifically leading to injuries).
But, that said, as you elude to – no speed limit is any good if it is not enforced.
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Lets hope the buses will reduce their speed.
I have witnessed them hiting cars, walls, gates etc and informed the police who frankly couldnt give a dam! so all in all you cant make one rule of 1 and then a completely different rule for buses etc!
the speed limit is fine for Guernsey! give the states and police some crayons and some paper and let that entertain them for a while!
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Truth Man –
It is a combination of speed and bad driving that causes collisions & There is no doubt that speed is the number one cause of collisions.
I disagree whilst it’s true that some speed is necessary in order for a collision to take place it’s not the defining factor. Other vehicles and drivers are also necessary for an RTI but you wouldn’t say cars per se or other drivers are the primary cause ( although if citing women drivers there is an argument ) Bad drivers are dangerous at any speed, most of us manage perfectly well within the confines of the current law. Bad drivers will ignore the speed limit no matter what it is, a change in the speed limit will not stop them.
The AA cite speeding as a contributing factor in 30% of RTA’s but distraction is by far the main primary reason for road traffic incidents, not as you say speeding.
I accept that to drive above the legal speed limit is dangerous but the existing limit has been in place for many years during which time cars have become much safer. The average new car can be driven into a granite wall at 30mph and the driver would walk away uninjured providing he was wearing a seat belt.
It’s people talking on the mobile phone, turning round to talk to the kids in the back, fiddling with the stereo and my favourite – doing their lippy that causes most accidents. As has been said reducing the speed limit is going to cause frustration leading to risk taking and law breaking.
By all means check the AA website – http://www.theaa.com/aattitude/driving-truths/safety/what-causes-accidents.jsp
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Isn’t this just another example of a States Department not getting its message across clearly?
They feel obliged to reduce the speed limits from the overall 35MPH in our narrow lanes… quite a sensible move … but to do that they will have to write that into law AND signpost every country lane at both ends with 20MPH signs
Because there are dozens /hundreds? of these small lanes the cost of these signs would be prohibitive (and rather ugly) so they have come up with the wheeze of writing into law that the WHOLE island will be 20MPH other than certain exceptions which are fewer in number and therefore cheaper to signpost
Those exceptions would be all the larger roads we all recognize as being safe to drive at the current 35MPH
I THINK that’s what they intend.If it is why didn’t they manage to say so?
I still believe that such a change will make the island a laughing stock in the wider world
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Are these people for real?
Is it April Fools day?
Have any of these clowns actually tried to drive from one end of the island to the other at 20mph?
Anyone who suggests this must have far too much spare time, with the constant roadworks and resulting diversions it takes ages to get anywhere with a 35mph speed limit!
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Vee:
Actually the police are quick to requisition and scrutinise CCTV footage from the bus after a formal complaint. There are at least 6 CCTV cameras on every bus, so I can assure you, both the driving standards of the bus drivers AND other road users are being monitored.
In my experience, buses mainly “hit cars, walls or gates” when they are trying to avoid a vehicle speeding round a blind bend toward them!
Remember that nobody on a bus is wearing a seat belt! If a bus, plodding along at 25mph gets hit by a car head-on doing 35mph, that equates to a force similar to driving the bus into a wall at 60mph! I don’t think anybody would want a member of their family to be on THAT bus.
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Jersey….
This is simple to conclude. You are not correct.
Have a read up on the available stats to see that speed is the most common denominator in collisions especially those where injuries and fatalities are concerned.
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Guernseasider – I speak from personal experience I was hit WHILE BEING STOPPED by a bus who then failed to inform the bus station, I went to the bus station who still will not accept it was their fault and the police said because there were no injuries they are not getting involved so sorry mate your wrong!
I was stopped, pulled onto the pavement to get out of the speeding buses way, with about 5 cars behind me who also were all stopped and we all got hit by this bus, and each one of us went to the bus station and report it to the police and nothing has been done, that my friend was a year ago! I had to pay out of my money (and yes i work) to repair the damage! the camera’s on board were “not pointing in that direction” that is what they said!
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Truth Man –
This is simple to conclude. You are not correct.
Have a read up on the available stats to see that speed is the most common denominator in collisions especially those where injuries and fatalities are concerned.
So the AA are wrong? if by speed you mean motion then invariably you are right, the matter under discussion is excessive speed and that is a factor in approx 5% of RTA’s UK govt stat.
Bad drivers are dangerous at any speed, it is this ill informed view that speed causes accidents that is the problem, bad driving causes accidents speed does not, ask Jenson Button.
I’m stating the obvious here but how is a speed limit that has been in place for eons suddenly dangerous when cars are infinitely more safe than they have ever been.
Enforce the limits we have, remove bad drivers from the road and let the rest of us drive at what has long been considered a safe speed.
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Mostly in agreement with the general consensus, however after witnessing a poor woman with a push chair trying to walk along the pavement less Coutanchez this morning, shouldn’t at least all roads without pavements be at the lower limit?
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Paul. Or better still prosecute drivers for mounting the pavement. The pavement is for pedestrians. Not motorised vehicles. What can’t Guernsey people grasp about that fact? I realise sometimes you may need to go onto the pavement in order for a wider vehicle to get past, but its the casual abandon with which guernsey people do it. They don’t even bother to slow down.
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Guernseasider
That head on collision speed thing is a common misconception. It has been shown by experiment that in a head on collision both vehicles behave as if they have hit a stationary object at their own speed, not at the combined speed. It may be counter intuitive, but then many such things are ….
People are always moaning about the 30 buses on the road being too big and too fast ( too fast despite being mechanically limited to the regulation 25mph … and too big despite me having to stand on every one I take because its full !!!) ….. and ignore the hundreds of skip lorries and delivery vans which are just as big and which can and do regularly speed around ……
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The majority of fatal crashes on the Island are caused by idiots driving at excessive speeds. There are always going to be idiots driving at excessive speeds no matter what the speed limit is.
The rest of the crashes are caused mostly by older people driving at 20mph.
20mph around schools fine, if absolutely necessary, everywhere else….just think about the last time you were stuck behind someone going 20mph….unnecessarily and frustratingly slow.
Stop wasting time and money discussing pointless and non-existent issues.
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Your physics is just plain wrong when applied to everyday collisons Tony. Both vehicles would only behave as if they have hit a stationary object if they are of equal mass and traveling at the same velocity – something that rarely occurs in reality especially when buses are involved. You are talking about a bus and a car!! A bus’s steel construction is stronger than a car (less crushable) and it also has a much greater mass than a car so the final velocity of the combined system (bus+car) after collison will still be in the direction travelled by the bus – whereas the direction of the car will be reversed. The impact on the driver and passengers in the bus will hence be less than those persons within the car. in addition to this, the car has the extra risk of being pushed into another object and effectively crushed from both ends.
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Just to make it clear, my comment also applies to trucks, lorries, delivery vans etc. If any change is going to occur to speed limits then perhaps this group should be looked. All vehicles over a certain weight should have a top speed limit of say at least 10 less than what it is for cars or just have a flat top speed limit of 25.
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@Wil
my physics is fine.
the damage sustained by vehicle A driving intovehicle B will be the same whether vehicle B is moving or not. Differnces in momentum will dictate wether the resulting wreckage remains at the point of impact or not …….not just the rest mass of the vehicles. A fast moving car would be more than capable of moving a slow moving bus backwards……
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Just to add my ‘two-penurth’
Relatively static (and low) number of fatalities & injuries = current system ain’t broke = don’t need fixing.
leave alone and find something better to spend your money on. How many potholes could have been filled for the money spent so far ?
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I beg to differ Tony. If you get your secondary school physics text out you will find that momentum is governed by both mass and velocity. The damage sustained to vehicle A will indeed be governed by both the mass and velocity of vehicle B and vice versa. So yes a very fast moving car will cause damage to a slow moving bus but a fast moving bus/lorry/van which impacts a car of less speed (or even equal speed) will cause devastating damage to the car because of the large difference in the mass of the vehicles. This is actually quite obvious so i hope i dont have to explain it any further for you.
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After using the vote button above it told me that over 86% of people have said no leave it as it is. If this Island is so democratic it should scrap the whole silly idea.
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Wil & Tony
The answer to your head on collision argument can be found by Googling Head-on collision math
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Yes interesting article, however, if you re-read both of our posts you will find that we have covered that point already but thank you anyway Ray.
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Wil
If you follow Ray’s advice above you will see that I am right and you are wrong. However you are in very good company – many learned people who should know better also get it wrong ……
Still, its not a good idea to smash vehicles together at any speed …..
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Sorry Glanzstar with respect,you have a lot to learn when it comes to driving and it particular the reaction time and the physics required to slow or stop a vehicle – no matter what you drive.One other thought/comment to all those that want the allowable traffic speed to be increased. With two cars approaching each at the 35 mph speed limit you have a combined closure speed of 70mph. You will stop as you hit the on-coming car, but your internal organs will not.Your chances of survival under these circumstances are almost non existent. On that happy note I shall leave it at that.
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Now that Environment has confirmed that the speed limits will not be changing, we can concentrate on the much more interesting concepts of head on collisions and cars hitting immoveable objects.
Tony, I think you may be missing the point that Wil is not saying that in a head on collision the impact is equivalent to a single crash at the combined speed. He is simply saying that it would not be the same as a crash into a rock wall. This is because the rock wall will not move whereas in a crash the vehicle with less momentum (ie it is either faster or heavier or both) will push the other vehicle back, thus magnifying the impact for the vehicle pushed back and reducing the impact for the vehicle with the greater momentum. The sum of the two impacts remains the same, but the allocation of the impacts between the two vehicles changes.
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Tony – its not “I am right and you are wrong” at all and i dont see why you need to view it as such. In my first post I referred to the exact physics stated in the article but said it can rarely be applied to real life scenarios.
“Both vehicles would only behave as if they have hit a stationary object if they are of equal mass and traveling at the same velocity – something that rarely occurs in reality especially when buses are involved.”
Everyday scenarios involve collisions of vehicles with different masses and velocity. So a bus/truck/large van hitting a car would be extremely different to a bus hitting a brick wall (so solid that it did not crush on impact) as you suggest. More like a bus hitting a sturdy wooden fence or a poorly constructed brick wall which crushes on impact (if we need to stick to the wall scenario lol). So if you ask me if I would rather be in a truck or car in an real-life head on collision…. then the obvious answer is truck please.
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Tony, Wil
Great to see a physics debate in the Press! A credit to you both.
I think you guys are at cross-purposes. Wil is right, momentum will govern the final ‘position’ of the two vehicles. Buses, being multiple times larger than cars, will often ‘win’ that contest (ie push the car back); it isn’t very often that a car will be traveling (approx) five or six times faster than the bus in the impact. Of course, we are also ignoring the force required to overcome the brakes of the bus (and plenty of other real world factors).
In a vacuum, where the masses and speeds are identical, Tony, the physics is right, but with all the other factors involved I would much rather be in the bus!
… but clearly the only way to save yourself from injury would be to jump backwards in the bus away from the direction of impact just as the car was about to hit …
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20mph, is this all our states have got to worry about in these times.leave well alone,let us sensible drivers judge for ourselves what speeds are safe in any given area ,as we always have done, and punish the ones who dont more severely.as always, the majority pay for the failures of the few. come on states lets not waste any time on this, get on and do something useful for once.we guerns are getting a bit fedup with it
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So let me get this right.
Our communications systems are 20 years behind the first world
Our sewage system/waste treatment plan is medieval
Our environment and planning laws are based on 18th century ideals
and our education system is limited to suggesting one of two career paths
And these people want us to go SLOWER????
Morons..
Just out of interest, the island of Manhattan is 5 or so square miles smaller than this one and about 5800 years younger.
Why are we so against progress..
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Yet another mad set of ideas coming out from the corridors of Frossard House! Leave things as they are. Looks like someone is trying to justify their existence.
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…and while we are talking cars, I wonder why so many roads are closed when nothing is happening. Our lane has been closed for ages and even after the work had been finished and contractors had gone, we still had 6 days of road closed signs for no reason at all. Perhaps this is the ultimate speed limit which some would like to impose on all vehicles.
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Having had a chance to try driving at 20mph due to the reduced speed limit in La Monnaie it has reinforced my conclusion that the proposals are utterly crazy.
It feels ridiculously slow, and the car is barely into second gear. Driving at that speed isn’t exactly going to be healthy for cars or the environment, as others have pointed out.
Incidentally, why does a two way road with a 35mph speed limit change to a 15 or 20mph speed limit when it’s made one way and effectively twice as wide. More nonsensical madness from the the civil service!
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George – how fast do you usually drive down the Monnaie then? I would have thought 20mph was fast enough for that lane as a matter of course, regardless of the actual speed limit.
I suppose you are one of the nutters driving down there with no consideration for anyone else coming up, and just expecting people to mount the pavement to get out of your way! (Which applies to most people driving down the Monnaie it has to be said!)
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Disillusioned Youth,
I’m not sure we should be emulating Manhattan. Their average traffic speed is 10mph.
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Eh, some intelligent assumptions there, and you know what they say about those…although I think that applies more to you than me in this case! I suppose you are one of the nutters who post baseless assumptions on internet forums about people you know nothing about.
I usually drive down it at a speed appropriate to the circumstances, within the 35mph limit.
If the road is clear then I may reach 35mph on the long straight part with good visibility. If a car comes in the opposite direction I slow down significantly. As I approach the corner where the road narrows I slow down and stop if necessary.
Forcing drivers to putter along at 20mph regardless of the road conditions and traffic volumes makes no sense at all.
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errr, guys, whilst you’re still arguing the point, Terry said 5 days ago that it’s been deemed a non-goer….
time to move on (at an appropriately responsible speed) to the next debate, perhaps…?
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