Reduce speed to make roads safer for all, says horse owner
Thursday 24th March 2011, 1:00PM GMT.
A car goes past as Tracey Dowinton tries to lead daughter Rhiannon, 8, and pony BP to the relative safety of lanes near the stable at Route des Delisles. (Picture by Steve Sarre, 1113775)
A HORSE owner is backing plans to reduce the island’s speed limit.
Tracey Dowinton, 41, keeps her pony, BP, at stables in Route des Delisles Castel. She said when she takes eight-year-old daughter Rhiannon out riding on the roads she finds them treacherous.
‘The cars just don’t slow down, it really is quite dangerous,’ said Mrs Dowinton.
She said the speed cars drove at around the stables and the nearby Castel Primary School were ‘far too high’, not only for horse riders, but also for cyclists and pedestrians.
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I belive that the 20 MPH is far to slow and would cause endless problems with traffic and longer journey times, many people wouldn’t stick to it! I would go as far as saying that 35 MPH zones along the coast could do with being 40 MHP with the exception of Cobo and durring the summer months Vazon and other palces what would usualy have a reduced speed limit. However Past schools and in built up areas like St. Martins I can see the point of a 20 MPH limit.
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“She said when she takes eight-year-old daughter Rhiannon out riding on the roads she finds them treacherous”.
Not surprised roads are intended for cars who pay for their upkeep through duty on fuel. I imagine anyone taking a pedlo on a busy shipping lane might find the same thing.
Tell you what, you stick to playing horsey on the fields and stop exposing your 8 year old child to traffic and I’ll keep of the fields – deal?
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perhaps it would be more appropriate ifthe tax paying driver was given more consideration and horses were restricted to fields or private land.
Am I wrong in assuming that horse owners pay any tax to use the road?
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Having been nearly thrown off a horse when someone sped past I share the concerns aired but what is needed is driver education, not lower speed limits.
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The roads are even more treacherous when walking depending on where you live.
You have to avoid the traffic whilst not walking in all the horse poo left along the side of the road.
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I totally agree with above comments, cars are for roads and horses should stay in fields! I drive a bike and have had to swerve on several occasions to avoid driving through horse excrement which is a huge hazard to myself and others. Dog owners have to clear their dog’s excrement but horse owners never do…I can’t imagine horse excrement benefits our Tarmac roads like it does in fields!
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I would like to remind everyone that horses were on the road long before cars were and they have just as much right to be on the roads (even more priority in Route Tranquils).
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The simple, although maybe not practical, answer is to stable your horse in a more appropriate place, away from any road you may consider treacherous
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Well said, Mark.
I’m not a horsey type myself apart from when I’m in a French restaurant (lost far too much gambling on them and don’t trust any animal bigger than me!) but it’s a simple matter of educating ALL road users in courtesy and common sense.
Posts like p.clark’s and Mr Ed’s are no better than the “horses were here before cars” nonsense. Nobody owns the roads – we all have a right to use them, as long as we engage our brains first….
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I would like see more give and take from riders,using the roads – although a lot of them are narrow, and so you follow the rider at a courteous distance, riders rarely give way to traffic when an opportunity presents. If riders are incapable of reining in their mounts to afford motorists to pass by safely, then they should not be on the highways.
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I’m no horse owner or even rider, but I can’t believe the comments on here. Horses were on roads long before cars came along; I’m surprised you neanderthals didn’t notice!
I’ve seen an almost-bolting horse on this road. Funnily enough, the car and motorbike that had been ahead of me only moments before had disappeared, so it was easy to guess what had happened.
It hardly adds much time to anyone’s journey to slow down when approaching and passing horses and if not, here’s a novel thought…leave home 5 minutes earlier!
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Agreed with Mr Ed
Its not suprising that a horse owner would agree to get the speed limit lowered, so many times i have seen horses on the roads during rush hour and hold up the traffic where is the common sense there.
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Unfortunately with the limited open spaces in Guernsey, it is not possible to avoid the roads with horses, even if it only to get to a field!
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Horse owners make me really angry, they make me more angry than the bleedin’ cyclists!
The people who get right of way on the roads are the people who pay the tax: MOTORISTS.
Horsists are always complaining about not getting enough respect on the roads. This is because they slow the traffic down and don’t pay tax, yet still defile the roads with horse excrement.
Horses belong in fields, not on roads.
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Horsey, gone are the days when horses and carts ruled the road. Car/lorries/motorbikes pay for it.
(rant)
20mph is far to slow for this day, age and modern car. Most of the main roads can handle 35-40mph easily. If it was up to me (some) coast roads would easily manage 45mph. Why drop the speed limit down to 20mph. Its a step backwards and an incoveniance for everyone who drives cars. (Except Sunday drivers.) There was a report in the press about how the states had conducted average speed tests. The average speed was 5mph+ faster than the speed limit for every road that was reported. That in my eyes proves that some speed limits are too slow. So why go and make them slower. Im not saying dont cut some speed limits. Some roads should have there speed limit cut, from say 35mph to 25mph and some increased from 25mph to 35mph. Example: Speed limit in the lane I live is 35mph. In parts its not wide enough to pass another car. Yet I pull out on to the main road (Colborne Road) and thats a 25mph.
20mph speed limits is stupid and it seems very few people agree with it. A horse rider, living streets (which from what I can tell is one Lady on her high horse) and John Gollop (Who doesnt even drive….) So if the states want to make the right decision then they need to speak to the people who drive the roads everyday. (/rant over)
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I’m sorry but as a car driver I get annoyed to have to go out of my way for a horse on the road. It’s a pain in the little lanes as well, if it ead up to me is take all the horses off the road, besides you wouldn’t let your dog or cow loose on the road, so why should horses be an exception? And you will reduce road rage and accidents if you keep the speed limits but take the horses off.
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How about you keep your animal off the roads & if you must ride it, drive it to a field in a horse box & then excercise it – rather then clogging up the roads & putting the animal through un necessary stress…
& that solves the issue of the creatures fouling all over the roads as will…
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oh & Horsey – I was waiting for one of you to spout off with the whole ‘horses were on the roads before cars’ debate… Well…
Roads were made by man, to transport humans from place to place – at the time they used horses & now they use cars – horses are no longer needed by man to get us from place to place & therefore have no place on the roads – the same as trams or steam engines…
It is not your divine right to use a public thoroughfare to excercise your animal – just because they used to be used for transport…
We used to play football on the streets before cars came along too – I bet you would soon be moved on if you started playing footy on Glategny Esplanade at 5pm… but surely you have a right to – after all, football on roads was there before cars?
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I agree that it is just a simple case that most road users could do with being more courteous, i.e. motorists over taking more respectfully past horse riders and cyclists, and also for riders to be more considerate in letting queues that have built up behind pass at the first avliable and safe opportunity… rather ristricting speed limits for cars and bikes or banning horses from using our roads
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SB & Tom – motorists do not pay for the roads. We all pay for the roads.
Motorists pay fuel duty but that just goes into the general coffers. There is no ring-fencing of funds and the roads are maintained out of general revenue. So a wealthly cyclist or horse rider will have paid more towards the roads than many motorists.
And anyway, we all have a right to use them and the right to expect to be able to use them safely, whether that be a pedestrian walking on a pavement, a mobility scooter in the road, a cyclist in the road or a motorist (not on the pavement!). This island is small enough that a little give and take helps us all to have happy days.
Tom – I love your illogical reasoning: many drive faster than the current limit therefore they should be allowed to drive faster yet. Cars are perfectly capable of driving at 70mph, but that does not mean that we should drive that fast here. The roads are not getting wider. In fact, roads are getting narrower relative to cars, and so the roads are getting less safe as a result – greater need for cars to go on the pavement and greater risks of collisions as cars pass.
I say leave the speed limits as they are and everyone drive a little better and with a bit more patience.
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Reading through the above comments, and those in the other speeding threads, I can only come to one conclusion: There seems to be no possible good solution to the island`s traffic problem generally. This may sound defeatist – and perhaps it is – but no matter how the speed limits are set, and where, there will always be losers.
One shouldn`t do down the horses too much – the rate things are going with oil prices, we might all have to go back on them!
I must confess: I`m jolly glad that due to swiss public transport being so good, I don`t need a car and I don`t miss one either!
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If I went around pulling wheelies, thrashing my front wheel towards other road users I would soon be banned from the roads. Its amazing that its considered ok for horses, which are naturally unstable, to roam the roads kicking off whenever they don’t like the sound of something – be it intentional or otherwise. Again if I pulled a wheelie and told the police it was an accident, I’d still go to court for not having proper control of my vehicle.
Get rid of the damn animals from our roads. They are a menace.
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It is completely irrelevant who was there first.
The majority of people use cars to get around and thus unfortunately will take priority.
Slower speeds will not fix the issues these horse riders have.
Prohibiting horse riding on the roads during rush hour would protect both riders and drivers.
However, I am inclined to agree that horses do not need to be ridden on the roads when there are ample fields and beaches. If they do need to ride on the road, tax them like everyone else!
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I drive everyday and do not see many horses on the roads and certainly not enough to bother me. Reading some of these posts you would think it`s like the wild west out there.
It`s the so called “perfect” drivers that will shake their heads at the slightest mistake by another driver that really annoys me.
I met one the other day, arms in the air head thrashing about jamming on the brakes, a massive over reaction all because i went ever so slightly over the yellow line.
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SS, firstly I have never seen an out of control horse on the road in Guernsey, or one that has caused damage to a car. But if a rider did not have control of their horse then they would be responsible for the consequences, including any injury or damage caused. So the premise of your post is false.
Are you really in such a rush, and are you really so important, that you want to prevent other people fulfilling a healthy pursuit that really has minimal impact on you or anyone else?
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To St Sampsons – as for the last comment in your post, horse riders are taxed like everyone else. What special tax do motorists pay? Not road tax, or vehicle duty.
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the best thing is to get up to date with life and keep all those horses in a feild and not on the roads ,if i was driving a long and sonething fell off my car i would pick it up , so they should carry shovels or a bin sack ??? dog owners have to clean there dogs mess up
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As a both a motorist and a horse rider, I can see both sides of this argument.
There have been many occasions when I have been riding on the road and have had vehicles speeding past within inches of my horse. Fortunately my horse isn’t phased by traffic, but it’s still unnerving. Fortunately most drivers are courteous and slow down when passing.
Despite my horse being good in traffic, I wouldn’t choose to ride on a busy road unless necessary (although in order to reach nearby route tranquils, this is often required, as is the case with the lady and her daughter in the article) and would not opt to do so during rush hour. In narrow lanes I will always stop in the closest field entrance or driveway where possible if I’m aware that a car is behind me, in order to let them pass.
On the other hand, when driving I have encountered riders who despite being aware that my vehicle is behind them, have been unwilling to wait for me to pass despite opportunities for them to do so, and my biggest bugbear is riders who do not thank drivers for slowing down! I can see why some drivers become frustrated. In my experience however, most riders are courteous to other road users.
As for the comments about riding in fields, this is often not possible. Unless a rider is fortunate enough to have a purpose built riding arena on their land, riding on the road is often the only option. Grazing fields get extremely muddy during the winter, hence riding in them isn’t possible, and I very much doubt any farmer would be happy for anyone to ride around on their fields whenever it took their fancy.
I don’t necessary agree that a reduction in speed limit would do anything to solve these problems, however I do think that it could be implimented around built up areas such as roads around schools/St Martins Village etc for obvious reasons.
At the end of the day, from both sides I think it is a case of common sense prevails.
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What a range of comments!
Just shows too many drivers live in a cocoon of metal and are not interested unless they get slowed down by anything.
Roads are not just used by horse or cycle riders but pedestrians too (where no pavements eg La Brigade Road)
Grow up you lot, get out of your metal spaceship and don’t be so selfish
Equally I think most horse owners avoid main roads where possible, especially rush hours.
Reducing speed limits will not stop the problem.
Education in courtesy using that tarmac strip may!
Not just 4 wheels but 2 wheels, 4 legs & 2 legs as well
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W H Bonney
Nice suggestion that horses are driven everywhere. Though have you forgotten how infuriating it can be being stuck behind a badly driven horse box?!
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Terry langlois,of course you are right in as much as the fuel revenue goes in to general coffers ,but when Lyndon banged 29 odd pence on a litre of fuel in stead of my paying £260 road fund licence (see that -ROAD FUND!) in the guise of user pays, and was to be non revenue making, i instantly had to find £1800 a year extra ,so i do somewhat get the feeling that i in fact pay to be on the road, and it irks me no end to be at the end of a slow moving line of ten cars led by a horse or a sweaty ar**d cyclist ,oh and mrs Dowinton you picked a bad road to excersize neddy ,it’s not even safe to take a car down there!
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1776 – and was the road fund licence ever ringfenced to pay for the roads? No.
You may think you have more rights to be on the roads than anyone else, but you do not.
I have driven around this island for many years and I can count on one hand the number of times that I have seen “a slow moving line of ten cars” behind a horse or cyclist.
I have also cycled around this island for many years and have lost count of the times that cars which were momentarily delayed behind me before the overtake, are then overtaken by me a few hundred yards later on when they sitting in traffic…
your perception about being held up by others is simply a reflection of your misplaced self-importance. Live and let live – you might enjoy it more and find that you are “irked” a lot less.
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Terry Lanlois. Where is this place you drive? Its not Guernsey.
“I have driven around this island for many years and I can count on one hand the number of times that I have seen “a slow moving line of ten cars” behind a horse or cyclist.”
Codswallop. Its every bloody day for me if you include cyclists.
And:
“SS, firstly I have never seen an out of control horse on the road in Guernsey, or one that has caused damage to a car. But if a rider did not have control of their horse then they would be responsible for the consequences”
Rubbish. When was the last time you saw a horse rider in court for due care and attention? And it does happen – although I accept I don’t ever recall any damage being caused (I could pull a wheelie without causing damaged, doesn’t make it ok). I have seen quite a few horse riders struggling to control the damn things or not in control at all – although I suppose it depends on your definition of “in control”.
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Blimey, what a load of twaddle. We are talking about public roads here. PUBLIC being the word. Everyone can use them or from the other end no-one should be prevented from using them. It needs courtesy and sometimes patience for us all to get along, it seems that some of us from some of the comments aren’t blessed with this.
As for the speed limit. People will always break it where ever you draw the line. I don’t see a disproportionate number of fatalities or serious injuries. Just leave it as it is. How much has it/will it all cost with surveys, signing and changing the laws. Waste of time and money.
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Sarnia the only sensible post written as for WH Bonney what a totally idiotic thing to write.
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Terry L. i was going to let this go ,but your blinkered obstinacy needs a comment or two in the hope that you may consider giving up driving, because if you have never seen a line of traffic behind a horse or a pushbike ,or seen an out of control horse (i’ve seen three)one decided to walk over my bonnet ,i was stopped at the time ,then it appears that either you drive at speeds lower than that at which you will encounter these problems ie, slower than the horse, or a visit to spekkies is long long overdue, either way you sound dangerous .
In your reply to st sampsons how are horses taxed like everyone else ? and in your reply to me, what the hell does ringfenced mean ,is it something to with the place where horses should be stored and exersized safely to keep them off the roads ,and as for my own self importance ,i can’t think of anyone more deserving .
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As a dog owner I have to pick up my dogs mess. Why is there always horse mess on the roads?? surely their owners should be made to clean that up rather than our states workers!
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1776 – thank you for your concern! my eyesight is fine thank you.
i did not say that I had never seen a line of cars behind a bike or horse, I said that I could count on one hand the number of times that I had seen 10 cars (which was the original accusation).
I often see two or three cars behind a bike, and I am often one of those cars. But I also see those same cars pass the cyclist pretty quickly, certainly within a minute. When I am that car, I invariably have to stop at the next junction or traffic jam and see the cyclist appear behind me or overtake me, so I was not actually held up at all even though I had to drive at 15mph for 30 seconds while waiting for a safe place to pass.
I also never said that horses are taxed, I said that horse riders are taxed.
it really is pointless having a discussion if you do not read posts properly, or maybe it is you that needs new specs? ;-)
as for “ringfenced” in the context of the use of tax revenue, look it up.
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There is a touch of ‘Deliverance’ about some of these posts!!
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Why don’t we all just agree on having no speed limits…
That way everyone can have fun and any accident related fatalities can be put down to a form of population control.
Everybody wins… sort of.
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You can get a nappy for a horse. Maybe it should be mandatory to use them over here for people who want to use their horses on the road. Its not nice having horse muck on the road, its not as if its a small amount every time!
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Why all the negative crap about horse muck? It’s fantastic stuff for the garden and in the past I’ve scooped it up from the road – mad, bad and dangerous drivers allowing.
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Blimey. There are obviously a lot of selfish people on both sides of the argument here!
Just a bit of give and take needed, and the odd wave/smile when someone slows down to make it safer for you on your bike/horse or walking. Or from the other side when you pull in to let cars etc pass and keep traffic moving.
Leave the speed limits mainly as they are, the cost of changing them all, signage, surveys etc. is something we can’t afford when there doesn’t seem to be any benefit to the population of Guernsey. Let’s all just try to be bit more thoughtful on roads, as I was told when learning to drive,imagine going too fast round a corner and knocking down a child, how are you going to get over the guilt of that!!
If you think all that was quite sensible I’ll leave you with saying that if ever one of the idiots who ride their bikes on the pavement ever knocks one of my nippers over they will be paying a visit to the PEH!! (Not just visiting either!)
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Quite frankly, I am incredulous at the brouhaha and many of the ignorant comments that Tracey Dowinton’s outspokenness have evoked.
Sections 214 and 215 of ‘The official highway code’ (Revised 2007 edition) clearly stipulate the care and consideration that motorists should exercise in approaching or encountering any animals on the public highways:
214 – When passing animals, drive slowly. Give them plenty of room and be ready to stop. Do not scare animals by sounding your horn, revving your engine or accelerating rapidly one you have passed them. Look for animals being led, driven or ridden on the road and take extra care. Keep your speed down at bends and on narrow country roads. If a road is blocked by a herd of animals, stop and switch off your engine until they have left the road. Watch out for animals on unfenced roads.
215 – Be particularly careful of horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles. Always pass wide and slowly. Horse riders are often children, so take extra care and remember riders may ride in double file when escorting a young or inexperienced horse rider. Look out for horse riders’ and horse drivers’ signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they ca be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver.
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Martino
Average Guern means you in his last few sentences!
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Yes, Ray his post was quite sensible until then. Anyway, I give way to pedestrians when I cycle on the pavement to glide by the traffic jams. And why pick on us cyclists anyway? Perhaps Guern could tell us what he’d do the ‘idiot’ car, lorry and bus drivers who use the pavement on practically every journey they make.
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Last time i checked places were people drive are called road ways not horse ways. Cutting the speed limit lower is unpractical! I sympathise with the horse riders, but there are plenty of fields on the island in which this can be carried out in a safe manor. In my experience horse riders cause unnecessary ubstructions on the isalands narrow roads and actually increase the chance of having an accident.
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Good grief people. I’m actually horrified there are so many negative comments about horses on here! Roads are public and everyone should be free to walk ride or drive safely on them. I love driving but I am happy to wait and extr minute if necessary so I can safely arrive at my destination without hurting anyone along the way. My ancestary on this island were. Long line of farmers are you all firgetting that without history there would be nothing. Horses were used in their thousands to transport everything!!! Don’t be surprised that only a century later people still have horses.
Just so you all know dog excrement is toxic!!! Horse eat grass so theirs is not.
My horses are brilliant on the roads and it would be brill if I could
Ride them on the fields but that’s just not possible as land is privately owned. So we stick to the lanes which we get to by main roads unfortunate yes but necessary. Yes I am lucky enough to have a horse box to go places but sometimes it isn’t safe to tack up when you get there.
Reducing speed wouldn’t help here I agree but the people who resent a 30 second delay in their day are the ones who should slow down and those of us who are considerate road users are happy for horses to stay!!
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If they lower the speed limit to 20MPH, maybe we should just go ahead and ban Cars and become a much larger version of sark.
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I agree that horses and motor traffic are not a happy combination. Would it not be sensible to evaluate all lanes close to stables with a view to making them Rouettes Tranquil whilst at the same time banning horses from other roads? It should be possible to give them a network of RT to safely ride in. Surely that would be a win-win situation?
My bendy, narrow lane has motor traffic racing in both directions at a legal speed of 35mph, its a recognised cycling and hiking route and we have hoardes of kids on horses (all pooing like mad!) from the nearby stables. Its a recipe for disaster and the local parish doesn’t give a damn, I should know, I have warned them enough. Why not use a bit of common sense?
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jessica – is your first comment for real? they are called roads – not horse ways, not cycle ways and not car ways. Roads. They were called roads before cars were invented, so your point is nonsense.
Beanjar – you are right, some common sense is required, i.e driving at a speed that allows you to see hazards ahead and then slowing down if necessary. It is not difficult.
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Horses should only be allowed on roads from between midnight and 7am, that way they arent put at any risk. The rider isnt in total control because they are riding an animal with a mind of its own that can be spooked. Not a machine that responds directly to the driver. They should also have to wear the bun bags they do in citys. The stuff they leave in the roads is not only a hazard to motor bike riders, it also seeps in to our water system and as the water board have made the whole island a water catchment area this means that the ecoli and tetanus that come from the manure left in the roads and fields finds its way in to our drinking water and beach outfalls.
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Good point about the g.g.poo, I wonder how much horse riders would like it if I left a steaming pile of my own on their doorsteps? We’re not even allowed to put bathwater into a soakaway so it is certainly absurd to have tons of animal excrement ‘dumped’ all over the place.
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I don’t think that lowering the speedlimit will help in slowing traffic down for horses. Whether the speedlimit is 20, 30 or 40 mph those people who don’t slow down now, won’t slow down in the future.
I for one ALWAYS say thank you to drivers who slow down, will always pull in if someone is waiting behind me and most of the time the driver gives me a friendly thank you.
Those of you who say horses should keep to the fields, please can you tell me where these fields are that I can use because I’d love to ride off road but I just don’t have anywhere to do this. I’d love to ride my horse on the beach all the time but I have no way of getting there without going on the roads.
I would never ride a horse that wasn’t good on the roads and I never ride on a main road at any time if I can help it (let alone rush hour). Afterall, horse riders don’t want their precious horses being injured either? Most riders in Guernsey treat their animals more as pets.
Oh and also, hi-visibility clothing is a must in my book for both horse and rider. I never go out without mine, especially when I have children on ponies with me.
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To those who are showing concern over the possible contamination of the islands water supply over horse manure on the road, what exactly do you suppose happens when it rains after the farmers have fertilised their fields with copious amounts of cow manure? I suspect a large amount of it would also seep into the water system.
As this has been the case for centuries, and I for one have not fallen foul of some terrible disease from drinking the islands tap water (neither do I know of anyone who has), I for one am not going to worry too much about it!
Beanjar, no I certainly would not thank you if you left a ‘steaming pile of of your own’ on my doorstep, however if you were to leave a bag of horse manure, I’d thank you and use it in my garden. There is a vast difference.
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Perhaps these ignorant Horse Riders should get off the roads! They’re for cars, end of story! Also, don’t ride on the main road from the airport to L’Eree like on Sunday, that’s just asking for trouble!
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If a truck spills some of its load, like hardcore, the driver or firm is expected to clean it up. If your car breaks down and spills oil over the road, then sand will be put down. If a horse dumps in the road, the rider doesnt think twice about just trotting on regardless of the next unsuspecting bike or scooter coming round the corner. I still think there should be designated times for horses on the roads like early hours before the main traffic and to get to a beach is easy. Use a horse box.
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It was predicable that this story should end up and a car driver, horse rider slanging match.
People do drive around the roads and lanes to fast, by to fast I do not mean exceeding the speed limits but to fast for the conditions. Some horse riders do at times ride without thought that there may be others on the roads.
The problem is not the speed limits but peoples bad attitudes towards each other which the postings in this thread show only to clearly.
Many times I’ve been driving through the lanes and had a near miss because someone coming the other way has been driving like their’s is the only vehical on the road. Though it’s been a near miss because I’m driving with a bit of forethought it’s me who gets the filthy looks or abuse. I’ve also had it from horse riders.
The roads are shared and if people used them responsibly they would be much safer. But people cannot can they, it’s always BSE when something goes wrong, “blame someone else” because I’m perfect.
For that reason I’d agree with a 15mph in the lanes. But 20mph maximum for the Island is a ludicrous nonsense.
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Hey, “Road user”, how about this:
“Cars should only be allowed on roads from between midnight and 7am, that way they arent put at any risk.”
Sounds ridiculous, over the top, intolerant, ignorant, prejudiced, and persecutory, doesn’t it? Not to mention missing a bit of punctuation. Well, I just repeated your words but changed the word “horses”.
The roads belong to us, the public. Not to any one section of society. It is every citizen’s duty to use them responsibly and to share them with other users with good grace and tolerance.
Perhaps if you are so keen on a car-is-king country you could move to the USA and leave Guernsey to the rest of us. Join the feted exodus…
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How can such a large animal be absolutely terrified of absolutely everything?
I know lots of people with horses but believe its harsh to just ride about on them. I am sure the horse did not evolve with the specific intention of having a spoilt child riding round on it’s back.
Before anyone says, but they’re well looked after and wouldn’t be alive otherwise…
doesn’t that actually make it worse. You bred the horse in order that you could use it !
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Times evolve James. Its motor vehicals that now are needed on the roads, for transport and business. Horses arent used for either, just pleasure. If you want to trot around on the roads just for the fun of it with an animal that can bolt if it wants to then do it when there is the least amount of traffic on the roads. If you were taking someone out for their first driving experience in a car, you wouldnt do it during busy periods or on busy roads and you have control over that machine, whereas horse riders dont mind taking their horses on the the same roads during busy times and ask motorists to watch out for them because they know full well their horses might get spooked and bolt. I dont know anyone that is capable of stopping a half ton horse running riot. Theres no handbrakes or gears to go down.
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Road user – so effectively, you would like to have preferential use of the roads and that anyone who holds you up (whether that be a horse, someone on their first driving lesson, a pensioner who has the audacity to drive to town during the rush hour, a tourist in an H-car outside the months of May to October, etc, etc.) should simply stay off the road when you are wanting to use it.
I think we’ve got the message.
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Im sure police would have a field day trying to book us for speeding over the 20 mph limit, they would need more staff though as they wouldnt be able to keep up with it all as we would never be able to keep to that speed limit.
That would be in order for me to get to work in Town everyday from my house in St Peters, i would have to leave an hour earlier driving at 20 MPH.
Yes..20mph through built up roads, Town and schools…other roads like Vazon and along Pembroke..just keep it as it is. Surely there are other issues the states could be dealing with here? or are they that bored?
Well heres a tip…if your bored..bring a nice book in to read or your Ipad (they have some wonderful games on there, one called Angry Birds is my sons favourite!) That will keep you occupied and make the day go quicker..John Gollop!
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I am a horse owner and actually keep my horses very close to the lady in the article. But reading it (and then the subsequent comments) has made me quite annoyed. She has done nothing to aid the plight of the rider/horse with her negative comments. And agree with most about lowering the speed limit is ridiculous. How anyone feels this is appropriate is beyond me.
As a rode user, both as a driver and rider I can appreciate from both sides. I have been stuck behind the ignorant riders that don’t pull into gateways and hold of traffic. But I have also been stuck behind idiot drivers that don’t indicate, or have common decency to other road users too. These are the people that need educating, the ignorant .
As for all those people above who clearly haven’t opened their eyes and looked around the Island and the ever increasing encroachment on the green areas left….There aren’t the off road areas to ride. As most horse riders either driver or have parents that do, they therefore are paying tax and have the right to use the roads in the same way cyclist or pedestrians do.
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Horse V Car – please keep up, the States are not making any changes. We’re now trying to shake a few people out of the misapprenhension that they own the road any more than other users do.
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Road user – what if you haven’t got access to a horse box to go to the beach? Not all of us that keep horses are rich enough to be in a position to afford a huge 4×4 (that is another debate) and a trailer or a horse lorry.
Also waiting for some of the commenters above to tell me where all these nice fields are that I can ride my horse in so I don’t have to go on the roads – I’d be more than happy to go off road (as I’m sure most horse riders would be!)
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I’d also like to see statistics on how many accidents happen because of horses on the roads. I have been riding on Guernsey roads for in excess of 27 years now and not once have I seen or been involved in an accident with my horse. I can’t say that about riding a pushbike or driving my car.
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@ Horse rider – can’t afford the equipment? Don’t have a horse
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damo – believe me, if every horse rider was driving to the beach or to a field in a horse box, and if every cyclist was in a car, your journey times would be a lot slower than they are now.
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since these are public roads and we all have the right to use them, im sure no horse riders will complain when i decide to start using a mini-moto to get about on? being we only need to go 20mph an all and are roads arent big enough for anything much larger?
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This paper cracks me up especially after the disaster thats hit Japan – “Horse owner wants road speed reduced” ha ha ha.
Anyway it is a small island and we all have to live together. I am careful when passing horses because its not their fault they are being taken on the roads, its the horses I feel sorry for not the riders. I would definatly not take my young daughter out on these roads on a horse, even 20 miles and hour is far to fast to pass a horse. So what does she suggest 5 miles and hour?
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The ignorance being displayed on some of these posts is frankly laughable!
Since when has ownership of a horsebox been a basic requirement of the horse owner? More of an optional luxury to be honest, and hardly essential unless regulary required for competitions (although god forbid anyone actually chooses to use said horsebox to travel as they may well hold up another road user on a far more important journey!)
Caz, no need to feel sorry for my horse if you see us on the road. He is perfectly happy, and dare I say it, actually seems to enjoy getting out and about around the lanes, as do I as a matter of fact. Believe me, if a horse isn’t keen on doing something, they tend to make their opinion quite clear.
Most of these posts seem to be concurrent. Leave the islands speed limits as they are. Use your common sense when travelling on the road. Slow down when overtaking horses/ cyclists/pedestrians – when there is no pavement, or anything else who happens to have the audacity to be holding up your journey.
It only takes a few moments, whereupon normal speed can resume and we can all get on with our lives.
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I did make a constructive suggestion that seems to have been overlooked so I will repeat it:
Why not evaluate all lanes close to stables with a view to making them Rouettes Tranquil whilst at the same time banning horses from other roads? If we end up with a network of RT to safely ride in and horse-free main roads surely that would be a win-win situation?
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@ Damo so you are suggesting that everyone who has a horse should have either a horse lorry or a big 4×4 and trailer just simply to keep their horses off the road? That’s a bit OTT isn’t it? Especially when there aren’t many off road places for us to ride on.
That would mean more lorry’s and 4×4′s on our already over populated roads. I’d much rather stick to my economically viable car and continue to ride my horse to the beach (sticking to the lanes where possible, wearing hi-viz and outside of the rush hour may I add!)
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“Why not evaluate all lanes close to stables with a view to making them Rouettes Tranquil”
Not entirely sure why stables should be singled out for special protection. I live in a Ruette Tranquil and on balance I tend to value the lives of my children over anything four legged.
As said earlier, I’ve got no issue with any single lane….er…lane, becoming a mandatory 20mph.
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Beanjar – I am not sure that I would consider it constructive to suggest banning a particular type of road user from certain roads just because you find them inconvenient and have no evidence of any problem with accidents or injury.
What next? Tractors?
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am all in favour of horses and cars sharing the road , the only criticism I do have is to do with the subject of horse muck.
YES it is good stuff in the right place and it is a nuisance in the wrong place. There are currently laws in place which state that as a human being you cannot defacate in a public place other than in toilets. there are also laws in place to say that you cannot allow your dog to foul in a public place, we all know that on the whole those laws work and on the whole people stick with them.
Personally as a car driver I am scared if horses and try to give a wide berth as possible, I overtake slowly , literally just slightly higher revs than tickover and wait until I am at least 2 cars lengths away before carrying on as normal.
The one thing that dose annoy is the fact that sometime you cannot avoid a large fresh pile of muck *( in a lane etc )it seems that everytime I spend time and money in keeping my vehicle clean I come across this. I am hoping that horse owners can see my point – after all when you get back to where you keep your horse you then take the time to clean/brush it.
Lets be honest , there are far worse things going on in the world than to argue over a piece of inanimate road covering. We no longer pay road tax per se, yeah i know we pay in the fuel prices, we should all be insured ( and that goes for horses too! )and we all pay for fuel in one way or another, be it petrol or hay.
Maybe our every so clever States *joke* can come up with a solution to a “messy” situation ? a Bucket and shovel and an observant rider could easily solve it ?
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@ horse rider
I have several fields that i have offered to horse owners in the past to use for free in a quiet area. Their answer??? The ground is unsuitable for riding…its a normal short grass field!!! Horses should not have metal shoes hammered on to their feet so spoiled kids can ride around on roads. It’s not natural !
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Paul – thank you for your thoughts. I for one (as a horse rider) would have no problem cleaning up after myself (I do after my dog) but I couldn’t do it whilst out riding (as some people have suggested). It would just be too dangerous to myself, my horse and other road users to carry something, or to get off, shovel it up and get back on and take it away with me.
At present, if my horse does mess in front of someone’s driveway, gateway etc I would go back and pick it up out of courtesy (unlike the horse rider who recently left a “present” right outside my friends shop entrance…..) but I certainly know plenty of people that wouldn’t and it would be very hard (like it is with dogs) to enforce this when riders didn’t do it and of course one rider would get blamed for another’s mess.
Quite often where one horse defecates, another smells it and will defecate in the same area so sometimes you do get a build up. I’m quite lucky in the fact my current horse won’t go on tarmac and will wait until we are back home but I do know he’s in the minority.
I do *think* that horse manure is not as dangerous as meat eating animals but I don’t have anything to back that up and certainly would welcome a discussion on that in this forum although appreciate it is still (for the want of a simpler word) p00!
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@damo – Please do not tar everyone with the same brush re your spoilt child comment. I think maybe you have had a bad experience with some horse owners but please, we are not all bad!
Yes there are many reasons why we cannot ride horses on all fields but without seeing your fields I cannot comment on their suitability.
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damo – where is this land that you have offered? How much space is there?
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@ damo.
I find it hard to believe that you haven’t had your hand bitten off if you have been offering such, any horse owner I know (myself included) would be over the moon at such a offer.
I’m affraid to say that generally there aren’t a huge amount of ‘spoilt kids’ about on horses, usually ones who have worked hard to have their ponies in whatever way their parent deems suitable.
As for shoes being unnatural. Horses have been wearing shoes for hundreds and hundreds of years… I have one that doesn’t need them, but one who couldn’t walk to her field (shockingly up a Route Tranquile – that drivers DO NOT keep to the speed limit it). They are used for welfare not for any other purpose.
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I can see it from both points of view.
I have horses and do frequently use the roads, I intend to only use the lanes and when I need to use the main road I will use it as quick as possible! I will always let people overtake when I can. Most horse owners take into account the time of day (well i know i do) making sure that I do not use the roads at rush hour traffic.
I’m afraid, horses were here first.
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Dear God, all of you stop this. Right. firstly 99% of horseriders do have 3rd party insurance,2nd,there are ignorant car drivers and horse riders. None of us are perfect and cannot all have our own way,so, common sense is the way to go. all riders and car drivers SHOULD be more thoughtful but alas ,someone always lets the side down. live and let live….with a little more patience needed from everyone.The Island is too small to meet everyone’s needs so we all have to share and be respectful where possible.end of.
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Horsey Owner
I agree entirely with most of what you said, however, I do think you let yourself down with your last comment. Horses being here first is not a valid argument!
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Would the horse users on this site feel that wearing a backpack with a scoop and plastic bag in the back acceptable as a means for “its” removal?
I cant see the reverse plastic bag trick used with dogs working very well. : )
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“The Island is too small to meet everyone’s needs”
And there you have it succinctly put; dog owners, cars, bicycles, people, children, litter, vandalism, tax revenue and expenditures, pension holes, pollution, waste or any other ‘issue’ of the day; all boils down to too many people in to osmall an island.
Population debate anyone?
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‘never read the comments’
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Iv already mentioned this but ill repeat, there would be no need for shovels with the bun bag I mentioned. They should be compulsory in the roads.
http://www.bunbag.com/
Horses are a luxury, as are dogs. Dog owners have restrictions on where and when they take their dogs so why would it be too hard to restrict horse riders to early hours on the roads before the traffic starts?
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