2

gary

Why is this man so threatened by Guernsey/Jersey imports? They amount to nothing compared against the billions and billions of pounds of Englands imports!

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4

Paul Le Page

If the UK wants to close down LVCR they are perfectly entitled to do so – it’s their law after all. In terms of the UK national economy though it is the economic equivalent of trying to save water by turning off a tap whilst the sluice gates at the reservoir are open.

In fact, given the huge mess the UK economy is in I’m amazed George Osborne has the time to micro-manage what is, in terms of the UK’s finances, a relatively minor issue.

It is my view that this whole thing is more about gaining political capital than stopping tax avoidance.

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6

cutthebs

“Why is this man so threatened by Guernsey/Jersey imports? They amount to nothing compared against the billions and billions of pounds of Englands imports!” In case you hadn’t noticed UK tax payer suffering huge cuts. Remove this nonsense save millions in VAT and save a hospital. The voters are not stupid.

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8

pbfalla

alderneyite

How ?

Rule Britannia its time off shore jurisdictions got their just deserves.

Go George Go

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10

dave

PB Falla

Worst forum troll in history

Do not feed the TROLL ;0)

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12

JJ Lehto

@ Cutthebs “The voters are not stupid”. Unlike yourself? You really think that VAT receipts are going to hugely jump due to the removal of LCVR? That’s as daft as believing that vinyl is due to make a comeback!

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14

pbfalla

dave

The Truth Hurts

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16

pbfalla

Andrew

You may find it ok to assist people to avoid taxation in their own countrys depriving many of the poor people of services which they could benefit from.

I think it stinks,but hey whatever rocks your boat,have no doubt the loopholes will be closed one by one

The end is nigh for off shore centres

Rule Britannia

God Bless her

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18

bcb

Mike
Why dont you point this out to the people who are doing the avoiding and setting up these companies? Its not the ordinary man/woman in the street that make the rules, we just have to put up with it like it or not.

I sleep soundly at night thanks (horlics is good) wonder if the orchestraters of these imoral dealings do though eh? i think we all know the answer to that one.

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20

Dave

PB Falla Worst Troll…that was the truth that hurt….exodus, lol.

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22

cutthebs

“You really think that VAT receipts are going to hugely jump due to the removal of LCVR? That’s as daft as believing that vinyl is due to make a comeback!”

Who cares as long as you don’t get them! Oh and vinyl has made a come back.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/vinyl-sales-increase-despite-industry-slump-20110106

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24

Martino

Yes Ray and if you didn’t see it live you can check out Jess’ little boob on the web at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWoSzmp9q8

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26

mike

pbfalla

I must be in the minority then as I know of no one who has left.

Roll on your mass exodus then I hope our young people who have Guernsey as their home will be able to buy all the cheap houses your friends leave behind.

Did anyone attend your meeting last night? Nothing on the radio of huge snarl ups around where the meeting was being held.

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28

JJ Lehto

@ PB Falla. I don’t know anyone who has left Guernsey in the last 3 years. I also know 3 families who have returned to the island. Crazy, eh?

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30

pbfalla

mike

I dont know if your a person of low intelligence but the houses are being sold to license owners to companies,as they exodus steams ahead you will see new housing laws allowing foreigners to buy the homes then rent them out to the young people of guernsey at very high rates.

Housing is already a factor in the exodus,come on get a grip and stop being a troll.

guernsey will become little britain.

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32

Martino

“…stop being a troll.”

Pot… kettle… black… surely?

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34

Ray

Martino

I don’t think you’re allowed to use the word ‘black’ in these enlightened times

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36

pbfalla

So we habe 3 or 4 happy people

Rule Britannia

Dont forget who owns you?

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38

Martino

You’re beginning to lose it now pb. The exodus is over. Indeed it never was.

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40

Pete

These British Govenment actions are not to raise extra VAT but to a level the playing field for British companys competing with those from low tax areas.

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42

GM

PB Falla

I am sick and tired of reading your garbage. You hijack every thread with this rubbish about a “mass exodus” which we all know is a figment of your imagination.

You don’t substantiate anything you say, and in the past have referred to “facts” which aren’t facts at all – because they are made up by you.

It used to be a pleasurable experience to contribute to this blog but over the past few months your constant “trolling” has really hacked me off. I try to ignore it but like an annoying wasp its always there.

I’ve just read on other threads about deputies whose identities are being disgracefully misused by unscrupulous and malicious individuals. They are unlikely to continue contributing to this blog as a result. Without their input, which is interesting even if I don’t agree with much of what they say, the blog becomes far less worthwhile, and your own dross I’m afraid nails it for me. Until the moderator is able to stop you contributing in the manner that you do at present, I’m not going to follow it anymore.

You would think that if your stories of a mass exodus had any truth at all then the newspaper version of the blog would have picked it up and done a feature and a picture of you. Isn’t that strange?

I just wish you would lead from the front and start the exodus so that we don’t need to keep having our internet space invaded by you.

Trolling is really not an impressive hobby.

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44

Horseman No3

Here’s a fact you can’t argue over /fudge/avoid :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/8450357/EU-expects-more-changes-to-Channel-Islands-VAT-loophole.html

Game over folks!

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46

Paul Le Page

Ray – why not do it the Guernsey way and start a petition and Facebook group? ;-)

More seriously, you may not agree with me but I think you and GM are overreacting a little. Although I agree PB’s posts can be tiresome at times, if you don’t take them seriously but read them with the required pinch of salt some of them are actually quite amusing.

We’ve always had eccentric characters in Guernsey – people like Maurice Kirk spring to mind. They can be irritating at times but we’d be a poorer society without them. I’m probably alone in this view but I think it would be a pity to silence him.

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48

devils_advocate

I’m still confused!!

The company that owns HMV have many stores throughout the UK and have a local online company selling product in competition against their own shops, but are still suffering.

The fact is, CD/DVD sales will continue to diminish. Personally, I buy most of my MP3′s via a Pure Sensia radio, I hear the song, touch a control on the touch sensitive screen, and buy the track to play anywhere (globally) I can get internet access and/or download it to my ipod/ipad or pc.

CD’s and DVD’s will all be non existent within the next five years. Gesture politics, springs to mind.

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50

pbfalla

gm

I must admit i find your post very boring and uninteresting but i accept your allowed a view,even though its total bull****

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52

pbfalla

Martino

That sounds like a rather confused post.

My posts are clear,local people are leaving the islands because theyve had enough,do you know anyone who has left within the last 5 years?

The real guernsey is the one before financial services moved in.

I will be one of the last to leave.

Liken the exodus Noah

At the height of the flood the Ark rests on the mountains, the waters abate, and dry land reappears. Noah, his family, and the animals leave the Ark, and God vows to never again send a flood to destroy the Earth.

The Financial Services however is the flood and its already destroyed the real guernsey.

Lets hope the uk and the eu rid guernsey of its financial cancer.

R.I.P the real guernsey

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54

dd

…what’s the fake Guernsey? Is it Sark? I always knew they were up to something…

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56

truth

LVCR is supposed to reduce collection costs of VAT on low value imports into the UK/EU. That is its only purpose in law. Those who support LVCR abuse often refuse to acknowledge the term ‘VAT loophole’ claiming that it isn’t a loophole. However , the loophole is the interaction of The Channel Islands position alongside the UK/EU and the unintended result of the pre-paid VAT schemes and LVCR. These three factors have created a ‘loophole’ in the law that has allowed companies to turn a VAT import relief into a VAT free trading advantage, a purpose totally contra to the intention and purpose of LVCR.

The Channel Islands have a special relationship with the UK and whilst they are within the customs territory of the EU they remain outside of the EU for VAT purposes. Because of this VAT is payable on import for goods entering the EU from The Channel Islands.

From the introduction of VAT in 1972 up until 1983 VAT was pre-paid on most packages sent to the UK from The Channel Islands through what is known as the VAT pre-paid scheme. This came into existence because Channel Islanders complained that the collection of VAT on import into the UK was causing delays resulting in cream and flowers decaying in customs. The UK Authorities encouraged this scheme because it made VAT collection easy whilst CI horticultural mail order retailers were also happy to pre-pay VAT if the goods reached UK customers faster and in peak condition.

However, for reasons unknown, when LVCR was introduced in 1983 by the EU, the UK decided that they would also allow LVCR on mail order goods coming in from the CI, even though the arrangement would result in a loss of VAT that was already being collected on a pre-paid basis . Under the LVCR Directives 83/181 the UK could have excluded mail order goods since the pre-paid scheme was working well and LVCR was not required on goods from the Channel Islands as the cost of VAT collection was already zero. Why the UK didn’t exclude CI mail order goods at this point is a mystery. It almost appears deliberate.

The equally misguided document VAT : Assurance Review of Channel Island Goods, commissioned by HM Customs and Excise in 1997 concluded that LVCR wouldn’t be abused since the authors of the report took the view that the bulk shipping of goods from the UK to the islands for breaking down into VAT free mail order shipments to UK customers was not a viable practice. However it expressed this only in terms of horticultural goods, ignoring the impact on non-perishable items, even though there were already companies on the Islands ‘circular shipping’ from/to the UK both horticultural goods and non perishable goods in order to avoid VAT!. Again, another convenient ’omission’ resulted in the report passing over the obvious advantage that LVCR would give retailers in the Channel Islands who wanted to sell UK goods VAT free by mail order.

The ‘VAT loophole’ was born as the direct result of the action of the VAT pre-paid schemes + LVCR which together gave CI mail order a huge advantage over UK retail. Additionally with the mid 1990s expansion of the pre-paid scheme to include non-horticultural goods, Channel Island mail order was now able to sell anything through the VAT Loophole. Is it a merely coincidence that a trading advantage of this kind emerged in the Islands just as internet retail started to take off ? Certainly the fact was not lost on Jersey Post Logistics who began advertising Jersey as a major internet fulfilment hub in Europe able to offer the advantage of VAT free internet retail to prospective clients.

From 1983 the pre-paid schemes allowed goods to enter the UK rapidly with VAT paid, as if they had been sent from a UK mainland destination, whilst LVCR also allowed the same retailers to trade within the EU but VAT free up to £18. This combination gave CI retailers an unfair advantage over UK retailers who began to see their customers migrate to offshore suppliers.

In 1998 Play247.com started trading and by 2004 Play.com was the most well known Channel Island VAT free retailer. Shortly after this the offshore VAT avoiding fulfilment industry grew rapidly in size destroying swathes of UK mainland retail.

The net result of the VAT Loophole was that a tax relief that was supposed to reduce tax collection costs in the UK had been implemented in such a way that it lost vast amounts of tax and destroyed UK mainland business.

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58

pbfalla

Martino

Your views are typical of the finance industry,greed,self self self,if thats your way of making a living i will light a candle for you.

Your guernsey or my guernsey ? thats why the exodus continues.

You are a example of the monster that guernsey have created today

Footnote

When did i ever say tomatoes is the answer?

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60

dd

pbfalla

Ah….you must mean OLD Guernsey. You had me tapping on the ground for a minute there thinking it was plastic. As I’m a young strapping lad of 31 this is the Real Guernsey for me. You of…er..80? probably remember times when there were so many tomato’s that you would use them for food, fuel, fertilizer and drawing eyes on them to make friends as walking to the next parish to chat with Eugene was deadly (what with the un-tamed tomato’s on the loose). Don’t worry. You’re a dying breed, there won’t be any of you lot left in a few years to whinge and moan. Woohoo! Good times ahead for the rest of us who love living here!

Can you hurry up with the exodus already and push off?

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62

Martino

I stand corrected Neil. Prehistory was never my strong point! :-)

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64

pbfalla

dd

I dont mean old guernsey i mean a guernsey with respect and morals and standards,something you seem to fail to embrace.

dom

At last someone with guts and a view,i wish you good luck but i expect you may well be on your travels again in the future.

martino

I have yet to see your strong point?

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66

Horseman No 3

@ Horseman – a 20% advantage is a splendid thing. Who is getting it please? Us living here in Guernsey? No. Goods need to be shipped here; shipping costs, we pay. We do not get to buy things 20% cheaper than the UK. So I fail to see how anyone is shipping things here AND back to the UK and still maintaining a 20% price advantage over their competitors. Obviously there is Some advantage or they wouldn’t be doing it.

My issue is not that companies have been making these circular trips with goods, it’s that we in Guernsey are being held responsible. This is a UK issue created by UK companies, do not blame us. We benefit very little from it, and in fact are now being damaged by it. It is not illegal. Our government has less power to stop it than yours.

I don’t like to hear Guernsey companies (or people) accused of greed when they are just trying to make a living. If Guernsey flower sellers are having trouble selling their locally-grown flowers because of spiraling costs or they have seasonal short-falls in stock, then why shouldn’t they – like their UK competitors – be entitled to import foreign flowers? I cannot repeat it enough: much of the VAT advantage is wiped out in shipping costs. For flowers that will have a shorter shelf-life than those imported solely into the UK.

@ GM – their are two separate issues that are combined in one here: “local retailers” and “local fulfillment industry”. Sometimes they are the same thing where a retailer offers fulfillment on behalf of another based elsewhere, but not all do. These retailers have been selling whilst VAT was at 17.5% and 15% and done OK. Again, VAT gives an advantage but it is a small part: zero corporation tax helps; no VAT on Google Adwords helps an awful lot more when you are spending £10,000+ a month on your marketing campaign.

VAT may now be 20% but costs of everything else have risen dramatically, whilst suppliers (of goods & services) are now often unable to offer credit terms.”

Two simple points in answer to this tripe.

1) Yes there is a huge advantage shipping to the CI and back if you have volume. Unsurprisingly that’s why everyone does it.

2) The advantage is going to retailers in the CI. Ordinarily on genuine non EU postal imports the VAT advantage would go to the importer but because the goods have been exported in order to be reimported then the advantage is transferred to the retailer who has set up the arrangements to take advantage of LVCR. That’s why this is an abuse (the legal definition being a use for which the relief was not intended) and that’s why CI retailers are just as much to blame as any one else doing it.

2) If you have a bigger margin through the fact you can charge the lowest price all the customers then come to buy from you, as price is the determinate factor on-line. Pricing your goods has nothing to do with corporation tax. Retailers do not price goods based upon what their tax bill might be. They price on wholesale cost plus a margin plus sales tax. CI retailers have no sales tax, so as a simple example if a UK retailer paying VAT sells an item that cost them £10 at £12 then they make no profit and pay £2 in VAT at 20%. However if a CI retailer sells at £12 they makes a £2 gross profit because there is no VAT.

If you think that’s not a major advantage you must be mathematically challenged.

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68

bcb

Horseman No 3
Go away, your getting very boring now.

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