Guernsey FC kick off ‘is a boost to island’s economy’
Wednesday 13th April 2011, 2:30PM BST.
Guernsey FC director Steve Dewsnip had the champagne spraying at the Garenne Stand after the confirmation that the FA had accepted the new club. With him are island captain Sam Cochrane, left, and striker Ross Allen. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1122842)
BUSINESSES are predicting a boost to the economy following Guernsey FC being accepted by the FA, which was officially confirmed last night.
Its potential entry into the UK league system would lead to at least 19 teams with up to 25 players and officials plus supporters visiting the island, spending money on travel, accommodation and food and drink approximately every fortnight.
Chamber of Commerce president Julian Winser welcomed the idea of English teams visiting the island on a regular basis.
‘From a business perspective, including travel, hotels, retail and catering, it’s a fabulous prospect,’ he said.
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This is a celebration for footie fans, what about those who do not want to be part of the UK and keep the Island very much to themselves, different story now. To coin the phrase ‘if the cap fits’. Very handy to say we are part of the UK when it suits.
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More GFA money being spent on 30 footballers and less going to grass roots, fantastic news.
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Excuse my ignorance, does this mean players travelling to the UK, 28 or so weekends in the year, and only having 2 weeks off in the year from football, I am sure employers, wives and girlfriends will be delighted.
Can someone please enlighten me on this issue, I find it all very confusing and can only see the chosen few benefiting from these games.
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This is a great example for Guernsey as to how sports tourism can be a significant leg to our tourism industryand thus for the economy as a whole.
Similarly in cricket, we typically host an annual international tournament of 6 teams (5 visiting teams), which usually involves around 100 visitors staying for around 7 nights, so that’s 700 bed nights in peak season. Based on average total local spend of around £120 per person per day (hotel plus meals, taxis, coach hire etc), that’s around £84,000 per annum, and that excludes the benefit of those flying here on Aurigny, so probably more like £90,000 per annum. We’ve now done that for the past 4 years, so something like £350,000 has been generated locally by just one sport from visiting teams. Numerous other sports do similar things, ie the Easter hockey festival, annual volleyball tournament, athletics meetings, visiting rugby teams etc and they all contribute in a very similar way.
It fully justifies the capital investment in sports facilities and somehow the States need to keep finding extra money to improve, maintain and expand the sports facilities here beyond just those facilities in new schools (although that’s excellent dual usage if fully utilised). Some sports are extremely well catered for with very high standards of facilities, others not so much, especially in minority sports.
Guernsey has a fantastic international reputation in multiple sports and we just don’t capitalise enough on this reputation from a sports tourism perspective. We do exploit it to a degree, but nowhere near to the fullest extent. If we keep upgrading facilities so that we can host bigger and more events, then the island will undoubtedly attract far more sports tourists, especially in the off-peak tourism periods. We’ve been investing millions over the years trying to find the elusive “general” tourists in an extremely competitive market, when investing a bigger proportion of those monies in sports facilities and events would could well be far more productive for the economy. And of course its not just about the sports tourism benefits – such extra facilities provide a permanent legacy for the local community on a year-round basis. Its also a proven factor that a fitter population keeps the island’s long-term health costs down by promoting healthy lifestyles and attacking obsesity. Its a win-win all round.
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It may come as something of a surprise to Dr Monkey but the GFA IS grass roots football, unless the doctor is referring to something to do with gardening.
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dr.monkey. you are right, i wish guernsey good luck,at the standard they are going in at they should win the league without to many problems. but i do fear for the future of guernsey as a whole. only time will tell. but as dr. monkey says a lot of money on one team. 38 games at say $3000 a game, i hope all the businesses that are going to make money might put their hands in their pockets and help the rest left behind. p.s. i do wish people would put their names to comments
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Gotta start winning though.
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It is also driving a nail in the coffin of all local clubs…
I hope that the 30 lads that will benefit from this are grateful – after all the clubs that founded the leagues over here over 100 years ago will now all but fade away to be sunday league clubs…
A great shame that corporate greed has taken over…
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the end of guernsey football
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Brinksway Boy raises an interesting question. What is grassroots football exactly? I had a quick trawl and could only find one definition from a UEFA magazine:
“Grassroots football is primarily a social activity and that many sectors of the community can become involved.”
(www.uefa.com/newsfiles/299508.pdf)
If this is the definition I don’t see the advent of Guernsey FC having much of an impact on grassroots football, as all it is doing is effectively adding another tier to the local game.
If anything it will add an incentive to young people who aspire to being decent footballers. The thought of being able to represent the island in a national league should motivate those so inclined.
For those of us who will never reach those lofty heights it won’t stop us having a social game on a 5-a-side court or down the park. I can’t see it putting an end to social leagues like the 5-a-side league or Sunday league, the “jumpers for goalposts” kickabout or children learning about football at school or at play.
I think people should be a little less negative about this initiative. As David Piesing points out, it could have a lot of benefits for the local economy – and local football.
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won’t there be a similar outflow of money for away games?
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david quick
Yes to an extent, but as they are using Aurigny and flights will make up a big chunk of the away costs, then at least that flight expenditure stays in the Guernsey economy.
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Isn’t one of the conditions of league entry that Guernsey FC pays for all travel costs, and if so, how on earth does the island benefit?
Aurigny aren’t going to be pumping it back in to the GFA saying “spend this on those clubs not involved”. They might knock a few quid off the fares, but the island as a whole won’t be seeing it.
Or have I got this totally wrong?
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GM
Good point
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I wonder on how many Saturdays the match would be postponed due to fog.
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What a shame that the vast amount of money that is clearly going into this sport couldn’t be shared around a little more. Just thinking about basketball having to pull out of National League this year due to lack of funding as an example.
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WH Bonney we meet again…..my son will be benefiting from playing in the FC but over the years he has worked hard and very much enjoyed his football and rarely misses training etc., as do most of the lads that are chosen to play for the island. You are involved with young people and sport and surely if you see potential in some of them to go further you would encourage them and support them, surely it would make you proud to know that you had a helping hand in getting that young person started. Not every child is meant to be a footballer, cricketer etc., and those that do do sport but are not ready to play for the island, you still always encourage them to continue to the best of their own ability. Sport over here will never die, but for those young people that have that “something special” then surely giving them the chance to play for the island is to be applauded. And yes i agree with Danny, funding should be there for all sports.
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Danny – I would imagine a significant amount of the money comes from sponsorship.
Although there may be a degree of philanthropy in it, corporate sponsorship is primarily about marketing – not supporting sport. Companies use sport as a vehicle to get their brand out in the marketplace.
The more popular the sport, the more publicity there will be, the more exposure a sponsor will get, the more they are prepared to give. Unfortunately for other sports, football is by far the most popular sport on Guernsey – and indeed the UK…it will therefore command the highest sponsorship.
Other sports such as basketball don’t have the same popularity or media coverage, they therefore have to work much harder to find sponsorship.
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Kim,
I am fully aware who will benefit over this – youth work is your field & this one is mine…
If you read my post again I agree that 30 odd lads are going to benefit greatly from this – & good for them – unfortunately, the clubs are going to suffer & in a big way… If you have the choice of going to watch Guernsey or a club team – most will choose Guernsey. People wont be able to afford to pay for Guernsey games & club games as well so that will bring the numbers down attending club games. So, clubs will lose out on the gate, at the canteen, in the bar after the games etc… Most clubs are not run as profit making outfits & the Profit / Loss margin is a very fine one…
numbers are diminishing at club level in football as it is – this will certainly not help matters! As for the argument that says players can still play for their clubs… say you have an important Guernsey game coming up the next week – if you play for your club – are you going to put 100% in? most will suddenly feel their hamstring so will pull out, but those that do play will have one eye on the future game…
On the flip side – if you have missed a couple of games due to ‘International committments’, you come back & then some poor guy that has trained & played for the last couple of weeks is dumped out to make way for the superstar?!
This whole thing has been modelled on the Guernsey rugby set up… can I just ask – how many Rugby clubs &/or teams are currently playing in a league in Guernsey?
The defence rests….
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W H Bonney – I think the decline of local club football has more to do with the rise of Premier League TV coverage.
I’m not that old (30s) but when I was a nipper we were lucky to have one live game per week on the box. Now most weeks there are often at least 5+ top flight matches on TV – and that’s not including the 3pm Saturday matches you can watch down the local pub or Champions League / Cup games.
Let’s face it, local football cannot compete with the razzmatazz of the Premiership. Ask most people whether they’d rather watch Man Utd v Arsenal or Bels v Vale Rec and I’m pretty sure I know what most people’s answer will be.
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I would just like to state that as Treasurer of the GFA, Guernsey FC will not be funded by the Guernsey Football Association LBG. They will be funding the costs entirely themselves as any other local club would when entering UK competitions.
W H Bonney (I won’t reveal your true identity), we hope that the impact on GFA games in terms of attendances will be minimal. This will probably mean that when Guernsey FC are playing at home that division 1 games (the only games that charge an admission fee (£3) will not be played at the same time. I totally agree with Paul in that it’s the premiership (and the pubs being able to show Saturday afternoon football through foreign channels) that is having the biggest effect on attendances in local football.
Please bear in my mind that the following comments in relation to the issue you have raised regarding players commitments to their GFA clubs are purely my own and not representative of the GFA Board or Guernsey FC.
I feel that there is going to be a bedding in period where all involved in local football are going to need to adjust to having a higher tiered club, this will no doubt result in a number of players committing fully to Guernsey FC leaving their GFA clubs with a gap to fill. In the short term this will be detrimental but it will indeed give opportunities to players who wouldn’t necessarily have the chance at first term level to play therefore giving players further down the ladder chances to play at second team level. It will take a few years for this to settle in but feel that it is something that football needs to do to be able to compete with the likes of cricket, rugby & a host of other sports in giving the best opportunities to our most talented footballers & keeping them involved in the local game.
There are plenty of towns in the UK with a lower population than Guernsey that support both a professional club and healthy amateur football leagues.
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What a great shame, this only contributes to the further anglicisation of Guernsey and far more so than many other things that people talk about.
In fact, the dreary and objectionable nature of English football culture aside, it is so quintessentially English that the extent it is embraced in Guernsey is always surprising.
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It will be interesting to see how this will affect the local teams. If you are bringing players up the ranks to fill the gaps in the senior team left by the Guernsey FC regulars, then surely that will only serve to reduce the numbers in the youth set up even further. So while it will be good for the top level footballers in the youth teams being able to play in the senior leagues, it remains to be seen whether there will be enough players left to sustain an under 18/21s set up.
However, I do think that this is a great opportunity for those with the most potential to go and show off their talents somewhere that there is far more chance of being seen and scouted by the professional clubs and for them to play against a greater level of competition.
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StM, I can`t go along with your view.
Firstly, football is played all over the world, not just in the UK.
Secondly, why would a local football team travelling to the UK to play (when fog permits!) make Gsy more english?
I wish Gsy FC the best and hope they`ll not only create more motivation in local football but also win a few games.
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NT – what are the chances of anybody selected by Gsy FC being of an “age” and ability to present a realistic target for a professional club?
Was this idea not the whole basis of the formation of “tics” in the first place?
“GFC” is an opportunity for the best players in Guernsey to play at a higher level on a regular basis.
I’m guessing the club with the most to loose will be Bels.
Rovers should be able to sleep easy…
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Ed – I know it is an extremely unlikely thing to happen, but you do hear occasional stories of players in their late teens / early twenties getting picked up by football league sides whilst playing in the amateur leagues.
I am not saying it is going to happen, just that the chances will be increased compared to playing for a club side over here.
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any player with the ability to make pro. would have been picked up by now, and you would not find many if any scouts at the level gsy. will be playing. i like many others fear for guernsey football at local level, and i say again this should be for a younger age group to develop the standard of gsy football
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Further to my earlier post, it’s because it cedes the management and rule of something in the island to an English governing body based in England.
In so doing, it adds to the perception that Guernsey is just an offshoot or another region of England and the UK, and may bring this perception yet another step closer to reality.
Football may be played all around the world but Guernsey has chosen to adopt the particularly unedifying culture of English football – supporting and following English football teams, flying their flags, singing their chants, wearing their kit, speaking their lingo, boozing excessively whilst watching their matches etc…
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Laurie
I agree with your comment that this should be geared towards a younger age group.
There are FA Youth leagues that we could join that i think would be the better route to go.
We have a few young lads at the Football CV Academy who play at that level and who perform in front of scouts every other week. They play against the likes of Chelsea, Watford etc.
Players at youth level will probably have less ties, young families, wives etc, to consider when committing to a UK league
What remains to be seen is what becomes of our local leagues. I’ve spoken to a few coaches, Priaulx level and below, who are still in the dark regarding what happens next season. The last ‘make-over’ of the leagues was a dogs breakfast. We are now nearing the end of our season and we are still none the wiser.
How are clubs supposed to prepare for next season without knowing what structure,if any, is going to be in place?
I can see the start of next season approaching and a rush job happening with an even worse format than what we have at present.
What do you reckon Laurie? The GFA are ‘still’ very silent on what we do next.
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St.M, OK understood.
But you may be surprised to know that in the part of Europe where I live, the english Premier League has a great following too. However, that`s not really surprising considering how boring their own football is….
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I too am fed up with the misconception being banded about that it will give the Guernsey players more exposure to scouts so that one day we can find the next Matt Le Tissier. Complete rubbish, complete and utter garbage. Everyone knows that a Matt Le Tissier is a once in a lifetime find, especially in these days of the Premiership. In fact the odds have got even longer as is evident by the fact that there are fewer and fewer English/British youngsters involved at the top level of football. In most cases those who do make it will have been within a professional club from the age of 5, if not they will be spotted by 10. Dave Rihoy, Glyn Dyer, Ross Allen are not good enough. They are brilliant talents locally but in terms of professional football there are 50 clones of each of them who have been given the bad news by some professional club already. I am looking forward to GFC, but not this season as they have entered a league that is for scally’s. I know you have to start somewhere but CCL Div 1 is a step backwards from a St Martins vs North fixture from this season. GFC should win this league without a shaddow of a doubt and big questions will need to be asked if they do not. Unfortunately I think the money put up for this venture should have been pumped into entering a youth team league as suggested by some posters above. If not the main sponsor should have split his reported £750k between the local clubs to allow them to improve their facilities (ie all weather training pitches, covered stands etc) with the provisio that all of the clubs entered a youth team in a UK league. This would have given all of our playing youngsters an opportunity to play at a better standard, in front of plenty of scouts that attend most youngsters football instead of in the CCL where the average crowd will be about 30 and believe me none of them will be scouts
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JT you seem to know a lot about the CCL, how? Is it really that bad and is it that poorly supported?
I would have thought that a crowd of 50-100 would watch a saints vs north game surely GFC will not play in front of smaller crowds in this league?
Visiting teams will have a shock then
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J.T. could not agree more. the other thing i am concerned with. the many people who week in week out attempt to improve their teams,training, matches ect.to then lose the players they have brought on.it will be a thankless job, where the people involved will just walk away, and who would blame them.The main league will lose all status, as will all cup competitions, even the upton. for the life of me i cannot see how local football will improve, and to say it will give lesser players a chance to play first team football, they are less able players, so standards will drop not improve. It would be good if the powers to be would comment on the fears of many who fear for the future of football, thats if they have any answers
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JT
Not sure I’d agree with you there. Any young Guernsey player who is outstanding at 16/17 is likely to be involved somewhere in the Guernsey FC set-up and will get spotted. Scouts will be there. Guernsey’s got a lot more connections with the professional game than your typical teams in that competition. Matt Le Tissier’s profile will help with that.
At 16/17 an outstanding young Guernsey player has to be on a professional club’s radar. Doesn’t mean that he will have a professional contract but they will be looking at him. They will be monitoring him. This gives him a chance to be spotted and watched regularly, unlike at present, without necessarily havving to leave the island to live at that stage.
You are quite right in saying that the exceptional-by-local standards player isn’t likely to get picked up after aged 19/20. It does occasionally happen, but not very often.
Realistically, it is the League 1 and League 2 clubs who will pick up players from this sort of league. The Kent/Sussex/Essex league clubs such as Gillingham, Colchester, Southend, Brighton, Charlton etc are the ones who will be watching. That’s the sort of club that an aspiring Guernsey professional is likely to get linked to (like Brent Pitman at Bournemouth when he was 16, and made his debut at 17/18), like Chris Tardif, Dave Waterman, Michael Wilson etc. Where they might end up is another matter altogether but it gets them under the noses of the scouts.
Were the likes of Ross Allen good enough? Perhaps yes for the League 1 or League 2 side had they been more visible in the UK from 16/17. Was Brent Pitman a better player at 16/17 than Ross Allan was? Some would say not.
Unfortunately your suggestion that the sponsor should put its money for GFC (which I am reliably informed is nowhere near the £750k which you suggest) into local football is rather naive to say the least. This isn’t a benefactor – its a sponsor. Those sort of sponsors do this primarily for marketing exposure. They don’t do it to make Rovers v Sylvans at wet and windy Port Soif in January suddenly become anything other than what it is -a recreational game of a very average standard.
I cannot believe some of the comments on this blog – mostly from dinosaurs who think that winning the “Priaulx” should clearly be enough to keep players motivated. Local football will die slowly on its feet if initiatives like this don’t happen. Otherwise you are trying to protect something that nobody these days frankly gives a toss about.
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GM Where is a 16/17 year old going to be involved with GFC? The scabby league that they will be playing in will be a minefield for players of that age and I suggest that there would be a child protection issue using players of that age in what is the dregs of non league football. As JT says there will be no one watching GFC, especially scouts, so I dont see how they will be spotted.
I am sure you are right about Guernsey’s connections with professional clubs and I would say that in our current formation if any of the local club’s had a youngster/teenager (of any age) that was outstanding then they would speak to their connections to get that youngster to a mainland trial. We dont need GFC to provide that as it is already in place and that youngster has more chance of progressing or being spotted at Port Soif on a cold and windy Saturday morning than he does with GFC.
An outstanding young Guernsey player at much younger than 16/17 has to be on a professional club’s radar. They need to be under the wing of a club before girls and booze become important. From a very young age they need guidance through their physical development, diet and football knowledge. By the age of 16/17 they should be taking their football very seriously, looking after themselves properly under the guidance of professionals. This still doesn’t mean that a player will have a professional contract but the player will be totally monitored and looked after.
Your point about the sponsor being a sponsor and not a benefactor is interesting. As I am reliably informed that the sponsor is more interested in this venture being a positive community project than a profit based investment.
They already sponsor Wolves, Steaus Bucarest (excuse the spelling), Brisbane Broncos, Hull Kingston Rovers among others and loads of sports worldwide. I am sure they understand that they are going to get very little marketing exposure sponsoring GFC, especially in the CCL. There may be a little smidgen of news on the day Guernsey have a team playing in the UK for the first time but that will last for all of 5 minutes.
I gather that the only stumbling block for the sponsor was if there was any negativity about the venture from the Guernsey community and the GFA (GFC now) were panicking like mad that any negative press would scupper the sponsors involvement. Why do you think they involved Rob Batiste in the venture? To guarantee positive press.
If your assumption is correct that the sponsor wants success then GFC had better watch out. They should be fine in the first year as the CCL is dross (especially div 1) but if they are not after that initial year then Tony Vance will be under pressure to keep his job. How long before better players are needed to ensure GFC succeed? As they move up the leagues local players will not be good enough. Therefore non locals will be brought in almost certainly on contracts. Eventually there will be very few Guernsey people involved, same as cricket and rugby.
I guess that they can all come back and rejoin a local club and Tony Vance can continue as Island manager for the GFA Guernsey side. Great safety net for all involved except the local clubs.
I was told that the sponsorship was £150k for 5 years and I suggest if they wanted to do something for the community then doing something, anything to make ‘Rovers v Sylvans at wet and windy Port Soif in January’ in your words, suddenly become bearable would have helped local football a darn site more than sending 30 people to play in the dire CCL.
Make no mistake about it Laurie is correct, what is left after GFC disappear for local football is scary and also to kick the local clubs when they are down they will continue to provide their best players to GFC.
You should get real and understand that us dinosaurs have seen these projects before. They have all failed but the GFC one does not only involve GFC gambling with their clubs future it actually gambles with the future of Guernsey football. What is left behind will not be able to compete with Jersey in Uptons, Jeremies and Wheway’s so those cups are a thing of the past for clubs in Guernsey and I can tell you comments like ‘you are trying to protect something that nobody these days frankly gives a toss about’ is totally to the contrary and devalues the great Guernsey players/teams of the past.
Wake up, tell the truth and stop living in a dream world!
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Brian Cohen
Some very interesting comments there, some of which I fully concur with.
I do share your concerns about the future, in the sense that if the sponsorship dries up and the venture becomes unsustainable then it will be extremely hard to go back to where we are today. Where I would disagree with you is that where we are today is not viable going forward either – its a stale product especially at “Priaulx” level, and in the past couple of seasons the level of interest would have been much less without the Croatia/UK national tournament and the Guernsey FC project in the background. Take the motivation of the top players away (the “Priaulx” is just not enough these days) then what have we got anyway? Perhaps a halfway house is preferable. Indeed, the combination of the FA National Systems Cup and a competitive summer tournament like the one in Croatia was probably the optimum as it struck the right balance.
You are correct about youngsters ideally needing to be on professional books from a very young age, but the game is littered with examples of players who were NOT in that system and who got picked up much later from non-league football. No, not Premiership players, but League 1 and League 2 players where the career opportunities are still very attractive.
You may well be right about local rugby being filled with “imports” but I know for a fact that cricket isn’t when it comes to representing Guernsey. I’ve checked with a mate who plays for Guernsey currently and in the past 3 or 4 international tournaments around 11 out of 14 in each squad have been either born here or brought up here from an early age. One from South Africa and two from the UK (all long-term residents over many years and not imported especially to play one or two seasons, unlike Guernsey rugby which, after all, is a club side and not a Guernsey representative side). But do you really see Tony Vance and Guernsey FC recruiting semi-professional imports to help climb the ladder? I don’t. I see the mission as seeing how far a Guernsey club side can progress without relying on such imports.
Ultimately, the 30 or so players initially involved and the “next 30″ generation will get a fantastic opportunity to challenge themselves outside of Guernsey on a regular basis. It is bound to stimulate those who are interested in the challenge, but I accept your point that it will impact on the rest. Its bound to. But what’s the alternative? I don’t believe the status quo is sustainable either if the game is looking to progress.
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GM please understand that most of my answers were directed to the post by JT’s points raised.
I was trying to point out that if the sponsorship of GFC was for marketing exposure then the sponsors would want to be winning to better that exposure. Nobody talks about losing sides. If JT is correct I dont think that the people throwing hundreds of thousands of pounds at this project will be happy for Guernsey to just have some fun and see how far they can get. But once GFC get beyond the CCL they will need a different level of player and at that level players are contracted in some form. It would be a total waste of the sponsorship if Guernsey found their level in the CCL and just stayed there, beleive me we would be better to pour this sponsorship into the local game as incentives/prize money for local clubs because the best sides in Guernsey can produce better football than those in the CCL let alone GFC
I agree that the current Priaulx league has become stale, especially this year, mostly because it has been a non competition. All of the top players signing for St Martins ruined this season at first team level. At least last year we had a competition and where any of St Martins, North or Bels could have won.
At the start of this year Rangers were going to go places, Vale Rec were quoted as saying anything less than a Wheway place would be a bad season, North completed some big signings but have not delivered in finishing third.
I think it will be more competitive without the current St Martins team as they all join GFC but on occasion it is going to be hard to watch.
I bet Rovers are one happy club right now, they have picked up a few good results towards the end of the year and will not lose anyone
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I think that the Croatia trip changed everything. Nothing has been the same since. Players came back with bigger egos, as referees, and now the local game is not big enough for them.
Motivation? Playing first team football, no one other than first team footballers are going to play for GFC anyway so they all have to be motivated enough to play first team football first.
Spoilt brats with exaggerated egos
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Chris Kerr
Maybe, just maybe, they came back from Croatia with more ambition and a less insular attitude, realising that there was a lot more than just Guernsey domestic football out there for them. Do you think they would put themselves through the massive fitness programmes like they did pre-Croatia just to turn up and play local “park” football? Should they be criticised for being ambitious? Its not as though they fell short when they went off-island is it? They proved that they were an extremely talented side.
Other sides in the past decades may well have done just as well or even better but I’m afraid we will never know.
Of course everything could just go back to the “good old days” of players hardly bothering to train and turning up to play on a Saturday afternoon having had a skinful at Folies until 3am the night before, and still coasting through games on the back of their ability. That’s where “Priaulx” football was heading until a couple of years ago. What’s the point in clubs investing heavily in qualified coaches, improved facilities and thriving youth programmes if the ultimate ceiling is kept too low? Why were so many talented 23-plus year olds dropping out of local football? “Won the Priaulx, got my Muratti medal, so what else is there to achieve?”. Its simply not enough to sustain the level of commitment to the game once family and work commitments come along. If you’re going to commit fully to playing football at the highest level possible then sacrifices have to be made, but if you can be successful by just going through the motions then why bother?
If you aim high in life, then you might hit the target. If you aim low then you most certainly will hit the target.
What we seem to have on the one hand is a group of (currently) 30-ish players (and future younger players) who have the ambition to go off and test themselves, play against new faces and against different styles of play, and on the other hand a (much larger) group of players and officials who are determined to retain a stale status quo by stopping those more ambitious players from playing at a higher level and trying to make sure that they are confined to playing local football (from which they may well walk away anyway through staleness if the status quo remains). Both groups have selfish reasons for following their objectives, but neither should stop each other. The two need to co-exist.
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many great comments brian cohen. g.m. great to be a dinosaur, many great memories of football over the last forty years. have you any ? i think we all new the reasons rob batiste was pulled in. i might be wrong,but was this comment page moved from the main page because people are asking whats going to happen to local football, and getting no answers
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Interesting thread. Alot of “facts” and “figures” being thrown about. As far as i’m aware no money is being taken from other areas of local football to fund this project. I believe that the club has to have a business plan to make it self sufficient or else the FA/CCL wouldn’t approve their admission to the league. The sponsorship is NOT $750K.
This is a MASSIVE positive for the football in Guernsey. It is giving players the opportunity to play at a level which is outside of their comfort zones. There are only going to be a maximum of 18 players involved in GFC each week meaning that the league may actually be more competitive.
The majority of these players will be from Saints/North/Bels (based on the current Island Squad). Saints 2nd team have been very strong for a few seasons now, so a good chance for some of those players to step up to 1st team. It also gives a number of players in the league a target to aim at. There are going to be injuries / suspensions and unavailability during the season and the “in-form” players will get their shot.
No GFA league club will “go under” or suffer a mass shortage of players. Players will move as the situation dictates and teams will even themselves out (more or less). It should hopefully encourage people to move to a club where they play every week rather than sitting on the bench at a “top” club and pick up medal after meaningless medal.
I’m also a bit confused by this suggestion that we’re all going to be “more English” by this new team. The GFA has been a county of the English FA for a fair while now.
I do agree that investment in youth sport is important – i believe that Guernsey does well in this area.
However, this club needs to attract people to watch in order to raise revenue, which in turn will allow the club to continue. How many people are going to watch are under 18″s in a county / uk league on a weekly basis? And how well would they get on against quality youth sides like Norwich or Hearts that visited recently? From the recent junior murratti result you’d have to say they’d struggle.
These 16 – 18 yr olds would probably have difficulties traveling off island so frequently during a key time in their education. I also believe that the strength in depth at that age is not as good as it is at senior level. The core group of players who will be involved in GFC are the ones who really “want it”. They train up to 4 times a week, they ensure their fitness is right and they have proved themselves at a good level already during the UEFA regions cup.
These lads have taken local football’s profile to a new level. Without their recent success this opportunity would not have presented itself. So i think a big well done to the players, coaches and everyone else involved in the recent success and the efforts to push GFC forwards – especially Steve Dewsnip and Mark Le Tiss.
I don’t recalling speaking to anyone who is involved in the local game who has a negative attitude towards this project.
If people on here are that concerned for the future state of local football and the GFA clubs it would be good to see you down at one of the clubs, doing the gate, coaching the kids or helping out on the committee.
But then that would be a progressive and positive attitude. It appears that people around here don’t like that way of thinking.
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Hmmmm
Excellent post and absolutely spot on.
Laurie – like you I have many happy memories of local football over the past 40 years but therein lies the problem. Dwelling in past memories will not help the future. Times have changed – not always for the better but they have changed and we all have to accept it. Take a look at Match of the Day in 2011 compared with Match of the Day in 1971! Football has changed, Guernsey has changed, attitudes have changed. Time to look forward because looking backwards achieves nothing other than a trip down memory lane and that will NOT sustain the local game.
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Hmmmm and GM, why cant you people give your names do you have something to hide?
I too am am delighted with what Tony Vance and his players have acheived recently and your posts cover all of the well deserved pats on the back.
The initial point of entering a team in a UK league was to find the next Matt Le Tissier by getting our players playing in a forum that would get them exposure to scouts, or that is how it was advertised by Vance himself. What I am saying is that this could be acheived if the team was of the correct age. Our senior island side are not going to be offered any form of contract by entering this league in fact they could find themselves losing their places as GFC move up the ladder and players of a better quality are needed.
If you guys think that players will be able to play for their local club and GFC then this proves that you are living in a dream world. With training, travelling and family time the GFC players will be absolutely snowed under with football. Some have not had a break from football for several years due to Island Games and the National Systems cup and maybe this has also added to the fact that some have stated that they need a break from the game and some have pulled out of the next Island Games.
Local referees have noticed a difference in some of the players that came back from Croatia. Local football seems not to be enough for them now, this infuriates me.
I really want to see local football succeed but not at any cost. Putting these individuals before all of the not so good football fraternity is wrong, destined for eventual failure and in the short term not fair on the clubs.
Ofcourse eventually when GFC have risen to the point where none of the local players are good enough to play for them the issue will disappear. We will have used the funding to provide a club into the English league that with the exception of the name will have nothing to do with Guernsey at all.
Everyone knows that the most important players in any football club are the youngsters because they are your tomorrow, they are your assurance that your club can continue into the future. Recently clubs like Port City failed for many reasons but a big one was because they didnt have the depth in the club ie a youth set up.
We should be forgetting about the current senior Island side in this project because as you guys state we should not be ‘dwelling in the past’ and Croatia is the past. I for one do not want to see players get too big for their boots again, local football not good enough for them, what ever next.
We need to look into our youth system to see if the next Matt Le Tissier is there, it is so obvious to me that we should be giving our youth more exposure and not allow the current prima donas to have everything their own way. The current senior side recieved a hero’s welcome back from Croatia, great support whilst there and all the way through the rounds and I feel that this fantastic support has been abused.
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GM i am sorry but i am with laurie and brian on this and although i was so proud of our football side last year and their acheivments i think that a lot of them did come back from croatia with a changed attitude and some seem to think that the local scene was now below them. They seem to have very quickly forgotten their roots and where it all began for them.
For you to categorise local GFA football as local “park” football says it all. you like them have got to come back down to earth. you are undermining what we have, granted it is not what it should be and does need help, but when you all go off with GFC we will be left with players who you dont need. For you to do that to the local clubs and then categorise that as ‘local park football’ shows the arrogance that you people have. I know that at the right level we have some very good talent and i do not critisize that talent but i do critisize their recent attitude and your tone.
Hmmmm the funding for this was initially lined up for tics as this was their plan at the start. no one has suggested that any funding has been taken from other areas of local football but the players will be. take the players away and there is no game. how do you know that the sponsorship is not £750k? i was also told that it was £150k for 5 years.
i can see this is a MASSIVE positive for the 30 players who will be involved but it will not help football in Guernsey. The CCL will not give players the opportunity to play at a level which is outside of their comfort zone, it is not a good league and i think you are right our local league will be more competitive without the GFC players it will just be rubbish.
tell me who wins here?
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Brian Cohen
Nothing to hide at all, but since when was it a requirement for anybody on this blog to state their real name? You seem to know nothing about blogging.
Not sure what you took with your hot cross buns yesterday but I suggest you take more water with it.
Let’s look at your points.
Firstly, I think you’ll find that “finding the next Matt Le Tissier” was just one of many advantages of entering a UK league. You seem to think it’s the overriding reason. Where do you get that from? Matt Le Tissier was a freak (in the nicest possible way). You can’t plan to discover geniuses. Far more likely that it will discover and develop the Tardifs and Watermans and Blacks of this world. It may do or it may not, but it will increase the chances.
Secondly, Croatia is the PRESENT, not the past. The same coaches and the same players – the first time that the ambition, the talent, the commitment and the opportunity have coincided. They have all the attributes to make this work.
Thirdly I agree totally that the core GFC squad players cannot possibly play for their local club as well. The demands on their time will prevent that, let alone the physical demands. But where did I say anywhere that they would still play for their clubs? You seem to have dreamt that one up. I merely said that GFC and local football must co-exist.
Fourthly, you kid yourself that the local senior structure was working. It wasn’t. Yes, a good youth development structure at the clubs is crucial but what percentage of talented 15 or 16 year olds are dropping out by 18 or 19? Many drift to the social leagues or give up altogether. Look at the Junior Muratti and Star Trophy sides of the past 20 years and look at the drop-out rate. The senior product just isn’t attractive enough for the better players.
Where has anybody ever said that GFC would be going out to recruit non-local players to strengthen them? I think you’ve dreamt that one up. You are assuming, which is very unwise.
As others have pointed out, it would be impossible for such an initiative to be undertaken for our youth players. School commitments and exam pressure and the limitations on how much football youth players are permitted to play completely scuppers that, although I would advocate ensuring that the local system finds more U14, U16 and U18 representative tournaments off-island to give those youngsters more exposure to tournaments and to be the feeder fir GFC. But those tournaments could be structured as week-long summer tournaments, not season- long leagues.
As for your comments about prima donnas, I don’t think that’s true at all but if Guernsey has built up the players because of their successes over the past 2 or 3 years then that’s great isn’t it? We read all the time about the greats of yesteryear and the 10000-plus crowds when the top players locally were household names. We haw started again to win Murattis – Guernsey is progressing yet you want to hold it back!
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brian cohan, yes it would be good if people would name themselves. i wish gsy fc good luck, but it is the wrong age group to improve local football. and hmmm, i dont know who you are, but i over many years am proud to say put in a lot of work both at club and island level. i have also posted before that gsys best coaches should be working with our younger players, i.e. u18. there record over recent years has been awful. i would also say that the best of the past can be used in the present
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the non-local players was started by the tics set up, i think one is still playing in gsy.you point out about young players dropping out, just proves my views that that if this age group was involved in a u.k. league it would keep them in football. of the present squad, in my opinion only one had the ability to perhaps make the grade, sadly it seems injury will always be a problem. and g.m. i dont see your problem about names, it may give a bit of credence to your opinions
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GM i think i know about as much about blogging as you do about local football so your are correct, nothing
You GFC lovers need to start singing from the same hymn sheet and listen to what Vance, Batiste and co have already said. It was initially sold to the clubs as the search for the next Matt Le Tissier by them. Vance has always said that players would still be able to train/play for their clubs, you really must keep up.
I have never stated that first team football does not need help. I agree that it has gone stale but I just do not think that taking the best players out of it is the answer. Surely improving younger players so that the current better players have a better local standard would help. The answer for me to our problems lies completely with the youth of the island not the current players.
GFC will have to recruit non local players if and when they climb the football ladder. Obviously not straight away because the league they have joined is a step sideways/backwards in terms of the standard, as i have stated before a good first team game between North and St Martins is a better standard than the league they are joining.
It is all about improving local football but this is not doing that it is giving 30 people a new league to play in.
I can assure you that none of my comments have been dreamt up. They have all been said by officials of GFC along the way and I think you are living in some sort of bubble if you really believe that this is going to help football in Guernsey.
Ask the referees about the attitudes of the group that returned from Croatia. Ask Colin Wherry why he decided to stop officiating mid season. It is great to see him back involved but local football has lost several personalities this season due to the behaviour of officials and players at the clubs.
I wish GFC all the best, I really do, but dont tell me that this project is happening for the good of Guernsey football. It is happening to provide 30 or 40 people who think that they are too good to play local football with something new and that something new is Div 1 of the CCL, mark my words this league is awful
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Trevor Dyer
I’m saying that much of local first team football is not much better than park football now, let alone once Guernsey FC starts. A decent standard of park football, with some good players amongst them, but some of the “Priaulx” football that I have seen over the past two or three seasons has been of little more than a good Railway standard of 20 years ago.
And when you see numerous of the players with a Saturday game very drunk at Folies at 2am on a Friday night you soon realise that local “Priaulx” football is going absolutely nowhere.
We will have to agree to disagree but if local “Priaulx” football is the pinnacle for local players then it’s impossible to be optimistic about the future of the game locally. You will see talented, well-coached 16, 17 and 18 year olds walking away from the game by 23 or 24. You might deem that successful – I certainly do not.
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GM your comments remain disrespectful, tell st martins after todays crowning as channel island champions that their football is not much better than park football. you obviously have no idea what you are talking about and next year GFC will not face a game harder than st martins faced today. I keep saying that we all are fully aware that first team football needs a shake up but GFC is not the answer. Batistes column today basically says goodbye to the old priaulx and now he looks forward to the success of GFC. This is the end of Guernsey football as we know it, it might not be great and it might need help but GFC spells the end until it fails,
You obviously dont play GFA football or you would know everyones concerns. henry davey and alan girard at st martins who must have enjoyed today are openly stating that their club will not be able to field a second team next year and a very good source tells me that they have approached Manzur, a business league side who are looking to affiliate with the GFA next year, to come under the wing of st martins so that they can st martins second team fixtures next year.
I hear that Manzur are not interested and why should they be? but this is obviously the first sign that locally we are in trouble. All clubs will now be panicking and the best, st martins, obviously stand to lose the most.
if you think that the first division has been of railway standard ove the past 2 or 3 years then again it shows how much you know. this year has been a non event because of the signings that st martins made but last year was a real competition, any of st martins, north or bels could have won it. rangers should be more competitive but their coach is one of the most qualifed but is obviously not of the calibre to win the first team title. in fact there have only been about 4 winning coaches of the first team trophy over the last ten years because it has been shared between st martins, bels and north.
laurie states that he feels that the best coaches should be doing the top jobs, i agree, Ockleford has never continaully won anything with any side he has coached and has been a total let down this year at rangers. cameron at north has won the rawlinson and the fa cup but could not manage to take 2nd in the league, with the signings and players already at north he should have been massively above bels. smith at bels has turned their fortunes around but it is too early to judge him and the management of his son will be interesting. le tissier at rec said that anything less than a wheway spot would be a bad season, he was mad to make that comment as rec, with the exception of ross elliot have been nothing special and his son seems to think the world owes him something from the midfield. carl always moaned as a player but he should try to stop as a coach as his players now copy him and they will continue to incur lots of suspensions as time goes on.
20 years ago we had gazza, adams and merson (among others – including howard wilkinson on a visit the guernsey with everton) who were permanently drunk. we have had some really great footballers who didnt concern themselves with not drinking, kevin le tissier, my idol, was incredible even up to the point that his fuel was totally guinness. i know some players who used to eat a sunday roast an hour before kick off and play the game of their lives but that was who they were, they didnt need the carrot of gfc to make them turn out.
Follies until 2am was the start of the night to these stars but they did not give up on local football, Kev could drink hard, play hard and score a hatrick without too much problem to him so dont give me this rubbish that local football is no longer good enough, it was good enough for player of Kevs standard and none and i mean none of the up to date players are of his standard.
you are correct that football has had a terrible history of loss of players from the age of 16-18 but this has been the case for many years. facilities for all sports in guernsey provide youth sportsmen with many opportunities and due to football being taken so seriously youngsters have chosen to leave the sport for basketball, non gfa football and hockey in their droves. the point is that gfc does not solve this problem in fact it makes the problem worse.
the other issue is that there are some of the current island first team who do realise that what we are saying is the truth. the current first team who average around mid 20s will be late 20s early 30s when gfc are playing games at a standard that will test them or take them out of their comfort zone. guys they will all be finished, please wake up to this fact, they will all be playing in guernsey as they will not cope with the level to which gfc are headed.
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There are some very strong comments on this blog but I have to ask why some of you have to hide behind intials and do not give your full names?
If you are telling the truth why is it a problem? I suggest everyone reading this should only take serious the people who are brave enought to let us know who they are
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Vicki
The reason I don’t give my name is because I don’t agree with my own club’s stance on GFC. And by the way, GM are not the initials of my name in case you try to work it out.
Brian Cohen
Yes – very well done to St Martins yesterday although their recruitment of the best players from other clubs ruined the “Priaulx” as a competitive league this season. That helped to sway my view that the existing senior league is barely worth protecting. With the exception of 2009/2010, it’s been pretty much the same for the past 20 years as a uncompetitive league. At best there have been two decent sides at any given time and the majority of games have been very predictably one-sided with far too many victories by 5 or more goals. There aren’t enough good players to sustain more than 4 strong sides, let alone 7 or 8.
Maybe an interim step might have been to have a two-division CI League with the best 4 teams from each island starting in Division 1 and the next four from each island in Division 2, and with one-up/one-down automatic promotion and relegation plus a play-off between 7th in Division 1 and second in Division 2. That should have happened 10 years ago. The top 44 players would have inevitably gravitated towards the top 4 teams. No different really from the top 30 now wanting to pay in the UK.
I detect a very strong degree of resentment from you and Laurie. It’s the good
old “tall poppy syndrome”. Build them up and them chop then down. How dare they have the audacity to go out and win a UK national competition and then represent England with pride? How dare they think they are actually quite good by giving done so, having trained their ar*es off all last summer in preparation for Croatia, and in the process risk threatening the tradition of a Bels v North “Priaulx” game in front of, er, 100 spectators?
Interesting that St Martins may now struggle to raise a second team. That’s what tends to happen when a club sets out to dominate by pinching everyone else’s best players. Even more interesting that a strong committed Guernsey football man like Colin Fallaize can see the bigger picture. He and his players want to be challenged at a higher level as the local game can no longer can challenge them. The top players and coaches locally have outgrown domestic football. If that’s a sign of them getting beyond themselves through showing ambition then when did that become a crime?
As for the UK league not being a strong one, well they have to start wherever they are permitted to enter. They can’t just apply to the BlueSquare Bet Premier League you know!
My view is that the better option would have been a CI League plus some form of international competition which Jersey have so far unsuccessfully tried to access. But that’s not to be. However it does NOT change the fact that the local scene at senior level is far less healthy than you guys infer.
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Most of the ‘doom and gloomers’ have answered their own point.If local football cannot sustain 16 players away at a weekend then yes it is ALREADY in a mess.Perhaps something new is needed to address that?
Social dynamics have totally changed in the last 30 years-that plus the reality of football on an island have brought us to this point.The status quo is not an option so rather than kick this project where are the alternatives everybody?
You should ask the current coaches,parents and players playing in U12,U14 and U16 football for their views.This is the reality of the sport at the moment facing these players from a purely footballing perspective:
Consider little Johnny from Sylvans and Billy from North.Both are 10 years old and enter the current Youth structure (yes it starts at 10 now not 14/15 as 30 years ago).Over the next 6 years they will play against each other at least 20 times and that does not even consider school games.Anyone will tell you players develop better and will enjoy the game with new challenges!! This situation is of course compounded should either Johnny or Billy be a better player-not only are you playing the same player but you know you are either going to struggle or have an easy game.
All will be solved when they enter ‘open age’ football of course-oops no the reality is they face the prospect of playing against the same player for another 15 years.
Given this enviroment people will leave the game-unlike 30 years ago there plenty of other sports to take them up and probably offer them something a little more attractive.
Off island football is the answer from a football perspective all the time.
Football also loses players to university-compare the numbers going now to 30 years ago.As players get married and have kids the demands on them are huge-kids have so much to do on the island parents are constantly running around.Little incentive therefore for a 25-26 year old to carry on in a stale enviroment.
In summary football would be in trouble even with a good product on offer.Anything that can provide a carrot to the next generation faced with all the conflicting options needs to be embraced.
Clubs need to see Guernsey FC as the pinnacle offering island players something to aspire to-by default it becomes a representative side with players from all clubs able to be selected.Rather than a couple of games a season ,there will be regular chances to play against different people.This should inspire those still playing (who we should assume would welcome such an opportunity) to raise their standards to the point that a wider base of players can support the local fixtures in the hope of selection for Guernsey FC in the future when injuries,suspensions etc kick in.If people are actually saying that little Billy’s current coach at North only wants him to play for North and not face the greater challenges of Guernsey FC,then perhaps that explains why we are where we currently are.
Yes this may last only 3 years but give me an alternative to keep the current crop of youngsters in football rather than cricket (now a 12 month sport with the ICG),hockey,badminton,squash,table tennis,athletics etc.I have used those sports as they have all been reasons why boys have not played in football matches this season at U12 age at our club.This is not about creating professional players-it is about keeping enough players to sustain the game locally.
Yes you could enter a Youth league but what keeps those players in local football once they are 18 ? (in any case my understanding is that the sponsorship is very specific and only on the table for an adult team to enter.It is not for the ‘general use’ of football as it sees fit).
This may not be sustainable -in fact it is highly likely that it is not, be but better to have tried than not surely.
Unless of course somebody has a better solution to the above -yes a SOLUTION not a criticism of what people are trying to achieve in good faith for the future of the sport on the island.
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GM I think that your comment confirms what I have been thinking about all of this. You state that you use initials because you dont agree with your clubs stance on GFC. I beleive that you are not alone and that most if not all of the clubs are keeping quiet but behind closed doors are seething about all of this. No one wants to be the one who is seen as negative and it seems that there are only a few of you who actually want to be positive. Lots of fence sitters here but you should be a man and stand your ground like others on here, you have a lot to say so why not be strong enough to say it as yourself
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Vikki
Sorry but that’s just not going to happen. My loyalty to my club remains very important.
There are lots of people who are supportive of the HGFC initiative in principle but are worried about the impact on the clubs. I think all clubs realise that whilst GFC players won’t be banned from playing for their clubs, the reality is that in a 40-match UK league programme they just won’t ever be available.
Clubs are also worried about loss of gate money and bar revenue from smaller crowds at first team fixtures although personally I’m not so sure about that as loyal support will continue.
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g.m. no resentment at all. i just fear for gsy football. i was in the u.k. over easter and watched a bit of ryman league football, i have got to know a few people involved in this league, and i can assure you that their comments on the standard of ccl was less than complimentary.but i can assure you g.m. i have no agenda just concern
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