No more Waitrose for me, says MS sufferer
Tuesday 19th April 2011, 2:29PM BST.
Gina Johnson has her own, but in bad weather she used to be dropped at the former Checkers supermarket by her husband, where she used the store’s mobility scooter to do her shopping.
A MULTIPLE sclerosis sufferer has chosen to shop elsewhere after being told by Waitrose it did not provide mobility scooters.
Gina Johnson, 48, owns a scooter that she uses in dry weather, but when it is raining, her husband, Ken, drives her to the supermarket where, until now, she has been able to use one of the store’s own scooters.
But on her first visit to Waitrose’s Admiral Park branch, she was disappointed to be told that, unlike Checkers which was there previously, there was no scooter available for use by disabled customers.
A media statement from Waitrose added that they would look into the possibility of introducing scooters if customers said they needed them.
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Well it ought to be a legal requirement AND they ought to be forced to sell RIBS
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I went for an interview with them and they told me what the customer wants the customer gets
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but bizarrely enough in Yesterdays press there was a disabled person congratulating Waitrose on its disabled access etc…
as I worked at Checkers for nearly 3 years I only saw the motorised trolley used once in that time.
Guess you cant please all the people all of the time ..
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I would have thought that a nation-wide company such as Waitrose would have planned on giving disabled people aids in theior stores. Quite shocking i say!
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Absolute disgrace to say it’s not a legal requirement! The callous spokesperson who said that should be ashamed. If Checkers had room for the facility then so should you if you have taken over their site.
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Normally Waitrose in the UK are small which may be why they do not have these facilities? however the Co op is small and still has them
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This sounds like a case Mr Reece-Sherrin should support. He too was subject to similar discrimination as a wheel chair user.
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Interesting to hear the woman from the Guernsey Disability Alliance on Radio Guernsey this morning. She described the new Waitrose store as a vast improvement on the old Checkers store and was full of praise for the way it is laid out. She didn’t think Waitrose was being discriminatory. I wonder if any of you moaning minnies were listening?
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Ok, so she needs a scooter when her husband brings her down in his car….so when she “needs” a scooter her husband is there….so why doesn’t he push her round?
This isn’t discrimination in any form. They have made a lot of consessions for disabled people, you can’t make allowance for every single requirement. I hate people, and would rather they cleared the shop when I went in. It would make it a lot less stressful for me, I think I’ll go and moan to the press!
This isn’t as bad as the lack of twin sprog trolleys moan but it ain’t far off!
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I have family with mobility problems. Family and friends with physical and mental health issues.
NO one place or corporation can cater for everyone’s needs.
If a shop doesn’t suit your needs, or makes little or no effort to address the problem, don’t go there.
If you need help getting around it, ask friends, family or shop staff to assist. If that doesn’t work – just take your money elsewhere.
Mrs Johnson is not alone in that thousands of people on this island alone have special needs of some sort.
Bringing these issues to the companies attention is always a good idea, but sometimes you have to deal with the – sometimes unfair – hand that life has dealt you, and adapt as best as you can to the environment around you instead of trying to reshape the world to fit your needs.
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I dont know what all this fuss is about? Whilst I sympathise with Ms Johnson, I do not think a commercial retailer can cater for every circumstance. This is not discrimination Town Dweller, they are not saying she can’t come in are they? And Peter, yes Checkers may have had this facility, but their tenure here ended for a reason! If they were successful with their model of retail they would still be here! As long as the store is accessible to disabled people then they have done enough.
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Hi Martino
Just to clarify, in the full interview I said also that by not providing mobility scooters Waitrose were “spoillng a very good ship for a hap’worth of tar”.
It’s important to celebrate what companies are doing right to help encourage them (and others) to fix the things that aren’t so good. The new Waitrose IS better than Checkers because the layout is so much easier for everyone to negotiate. But there are some things that could be improved. When Gina suggested one of those improvements, Waitrose’s first reaction was “it’s not a legal requirement” so she felt she had to take it further.
All credit to her. Only by someone speaking out can things be improved for everyone. Thank you to all who have supported her on this forum and elsewhere. If it would also help you if Waitrose had a mobility scooter, you can contact Gina through Radio Guernsey on 200373.
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PaulGed – Thank you for that excellent post, and from someone with experience of the issues.
Talk of discrimination is a huge overreaction. To all accounts Waitrose has gone to considerable effort and expense to ensure their shops are accessible to the majority of disabled people – something the Guernsey Disability Alliance has acknowledged.
Of course some might argue there is “room for improvement” but the extreme criticism from some quarters of this forum ignores the measures they have taken. Just because they don’t match up to one lady’s personal standards doesn’t mean they are discriminatory – or necessarily wrong.
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Thanks for clarifying Shelaine. All things considered my view remains that Waitrose has done more than enough already to make its new store accessible and welcoming for all.
As CI Man says, no commercial retailer can cater for every circumstance. As Paul Ged says, you sometimes have to adapt to the environment around you as a disabled person rather than trying to reshape the world to meet all your needs.
Ask the ‘average’ disabled person whether they would rather have the old Checkers with a mobility scooter but a truly awful layout or the new Waitrose sans scooter but with wonderful, fully accessible layout. I’m confident I know which answer the vast majority would give.
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Clearly Waitrose have done nothing wrong here…
Ok so they dont have a mobility scooter, but the do have wheelchairs (mobility scooters without the engine), special trolleys & shopping assistants.
The long & short of it is that if Mrs Johnson wanted to shop there, they would provide a wheelchair, trolley & an assistant to help her all the way around the store & even load her car… the fact that she doesnt want this as she would rather use a mobility scooter is not the fault of Waitrose.
Forest School needs a safe crossing, however im not going to use the zebra crossing as I want to use a pelican crossing… its called cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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So because Waitrose don’t supply mobility scooters she’s going to shop elsewhere? As far as I’m aware there isn’t a single shop which provides them.
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Ray – you are not wrong, but also not right, they do sell Ribs, in the ‘meat’ section of the supermarket, and you are right that they shoul dbe forced to sell a wider range. i can get about 8 different kinds from my local chineese.
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I suspect that you’ll also find Waitrose insurers unhappy with the store providing a mobility scooter. An accident resulting in injury to the rider, other customers or staff would render the company liable unless it could demonstrate that it had taken every precaution, including driver training, servicing and regular engineering inspections of the equipment.
If Mrs Johnson crashes into you in her scooter and breaks your leg you sue her and her insurer. If she crashes into you on Waitrose’s scooter you sue the store for your loss of earnings, injury etc…
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Good. Mobility scooters are dangerous.
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hey ho , they have done all they possibly can to alleviate the situation without spending thousands on a scooter.
Thank you W H Bonney , your last few words are perfect :-)
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If I owned a nationwide chain of supermarkets, i would make damned sure that all disabled people had access to sufficient aids at each and every one of them. Unbelievable.
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They also do Home Delivery. So she wouldn’t even have to load up her car she could just instruct it to be delivered…at a charge no doubt but still a pretty good service that you don’t get from the other supermarkets.
Swings and roundabouts.
They don’t have a mobility scooter. Meh. They do have lots of other things to assist disabled customers.
Meanwhile in regards to ‘Ribgate’ I think Ray, mighty meaty and I need to get our HI-Viz jackets on pronto and get down to the GP Office. Thankfully we live in a place where our dull, mumbly, slightly nervous voices will be heard…or at least read during a dull lunch break.
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@Wayne Flipper
But what constitutes “sufficient”? Do all disabled people have mobility scooters when they’re not in the supermarket?
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I guess Wayne Flipper won’t be satisfied until all supermarkets are equipped with back up guide dogs just in case a blind shopper arrives having left his/hers at home. And, for the same reason, also a stand full of zimmer frames, crutches and walking sticks clogging up the store entrance?
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Just seen the interview on CTV, agree with many above, the store is clearly an improvement over the one it replaces. If she doesn’t want her husband to push her round then why doesn’t he do the shopping.
Personally as a vegetarian I hate the smell of meat, can they please cover the meat counter when I shop.
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Great to see so much debate here. It really helps organisations like the Guernsey Disability Alliance understand just what misconceptions are out there about disabled islanders’ lives so we can try to address them.
Several posters have pointed out the alternatives Gina has. Home delivery for example. Or being pushed around the store.
Whilst those would work on a functional level, they would take away a part of Gina’s independence, an independence that she fights very hard to maintain. With just a simple piece of equipment she can shop just like everyone else, take her time choosing, stop and chat to a friend.
Is that really so much to ask of the largest and most accessible store in Guernsey?
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Come on guys
Waitrose have spent a fortune on making the stores accessible to some people with a problem with mobility and I take my hat off to them for that.
With a tiny bit more thought, they could have made their store accessible to at least one more person. The person in question probably pays the same tax and social security as me and you.
Why are we (as a society)not allowing the complainant to shop as I would? I do not have a problem getting into my shops as I do not have a disability, I am lucky.
For Waitrose to hide behind the fact that we do not have a Disability Discrimination Law is unfortunate and poor customer service.
Waitrose. If you are listening, go the extra mile and get the buggies. In this case, cost does not outweigh benefit.
This is a PR disaster.
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Interesting and of course varied comments from new and regular contributors to this forum.
In relation to the facts, it would ‘appear’ that Waitrose has not installed Scooters anywhere within the network and this therefore is a policy decision. I am aware of one employee who has offered to give up their wages to purchase a scooter and donate it to this Branch. This would take the ‘needing to do this in all Branches’ out of the equation.
In relation to some of the (in my opinion), ‘ill-informed’ posts here,
‘Discrimination is a Social Construct.’ The Impairment of the person is and should NOT be the issue. Might one proffer the following?
Were one to discriminate on the grounds of a person’s colour/ethnicity by having a policy of saying,
‘Oh Sir, you’re Black … we have Special trolleys for you and can offer a member of staff to help you with your shopping and even carry it to the car for you.’
Then there would (rightly) be outrage and the ‘Policy’ would soon be changed to stop or at least try to avoid the Discrimination.
Just because Discrimination was not planned it is still Discrimination nonetheless. Attacking and using vitriol is unhelpful, negotiation should always be the first point and if necessary by demonstration of the issues involved.
Enough Said
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If one were to set out to meet every possible access need to each and every Disabled Person (pan impairment), then they may as well shut up shop and give up straight away, as it would be absolutely impossible. We do not have any Disability Discrimination legislation in Guernsey (more’s the pity) and whilst it might not have met this particular lady’s needs, Waitrose appears to have made efforts to address some access needs in assisting Disabled People with their shopping.
However, I can see the point of view that Mrs Johnson makes, in that for any Disabled Person, having a member of Waitrose staff wheel them around the supermarket and lift/fetch/carry for them, completely takes away their independence. This takes away freedom, choice, control and potentially dignity from a person which is not acceptable.
Although the new Waitrose store at Admiral Park is certainly more accessible than previously in terms of wider aisles and less clutter, the higher shelves are virtually impossible for those who are wheelchair users, for example, to reach. It is obviously impractical for supermarkets to only have shelving that reaches a height manageable to wheelchair users (and potentially Disabled People with different impairments such as Achondroplasia) and I am certainly not suggesting that they even consider it, but it is a fact that this will cause difficulties for some people and that assistance will be needed. Waitrose addresses the access requirement in this area by having staff on hand to assist customers requiring assistance and I believe that this would be acceptable to all Disabled – and non-Disabled People.
I think it is a shame that Mrs Johnson feels ‘forced’ to shop elsewhere but perhaps some proactive encouragement to the store might persuade them to reconsider their policy on providing mobility scooters, rather than everyone just having another good old Guernsey slanging session!
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Don’t patronise us, Katie, with all your PC verbiage as to what discrimination is or is not. Without indulging in the sort of sophistry you employ it could also be argued that what you are arguing for is discrimination – positive discrimination in favour of someone who, notwithstanding her unfortunate condition, is being unreasonable frankly.
And Shelaine, I don’t see any misconceptions by the critical posters. Both you and this woman ARE being unreasonable and it would be wrong for Waitrose to indulge her and your organisation. This little episode has convinced me that the last thing we need on this island is a raft of ‘Disability Discrimination legislation’ as advocated by Hopeful. It would end up being an absolute bureaucratic nightmare.
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Out of interest, how much shopping can she actually do using a mobility scooter, surely she can only get one or 2 things that’d have to fit in the little basket on the front anyway?
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It seems the more said about this subject, the less clear things have become. I don’t believe Gina was being damming of Waitrose, indeed, she was inferring that if she could shop independently there, then Waitrose would be her shop of choice.
Martino, disabled people want to see disability discrimination laws in Guernsey, but none of us want this to be resented by the rest of society. When such legislation comes here, it will be based on demanding reasonable adjustments. The judgement of what is reasonable would take into account how big an organisation is and how significant this change would be, both for the disabled person and the company.
With an ageing population, disability is increasing, and it makes sense on all levels for our island to do more to protect and recognise the rights of disabled people.
At the moment, Guernsey is one of the few places in the world that does not protect its disabled population with disability discrimination laws. Over 150 countries, including many small island nations, have signed the UN convention on the Rights of persons with disabilities – but not Guernsey.
I think most people would agree that we all have the right to pursue happiness in life. For some disabled people, the barriers created by society mean that rather than pursuing happiness, they are instead trying to avoid misery. Gina is determined to pursue happiness and good for her.
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It would appear clear that some posters to this forum do not know the concept of discrimination let alone to have experienced it. The proof of this case is when a person posts and offers suggestions and is then personally attacked for their views. Although I do not know ‘Shelaine Green’, she and a ‘Hopeful’ make common sense approaches. Were a computer not available here for me to post to this forum, my ‘Independence’ would be compromised. So the point on shopping is it does not matter how many items one can get into a basket, the point is being able to do that for as long as one can to help retain that sense of Independence and moreover ‘Dignity’. Mrs Johnson’s views are not extreme, she like Cobo Martin suggests wants no more or indeed less than any other shopper would expect. Hence my reference to Discrimination on the basis of Colour or Ethnicity. Constructive feed-back and adult debate are both healthy and welcome but personal attacks ???
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Janet
It’s much more than one or two. To see Gina in action in the Co-op, (which does have its own mobility scooter) go to 3 mins 25 secs in last night’s BBC Channel Island News here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00cpbsj.
You may be interested to know that Jersey has a whole “Shopmobility” scheme, where islanders and visitors can hire mobility scooters. See: http://www.shopmobility.org.je
Martino
The idea for having designated parking spaces for disabled people close to the entrance of large buildings was undoubtedly thought “unreasonable” at the time. But now it’s the norm.
The fact that Guernsey has those spaces was due to people like Dave Purdy and others speaking out (and taking the inevitable flak that goes with that).
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Katie
According to the Institute of Race Relations there are two types of discrimination. I quote from their website:
- Direct discrimination
Occurs when a ‘protected characteristic’ such as race, colour, nationality, or ethnic or national origin is used as an explicit reason for discriminating.
- Indirect discrimination
Occurs when there are provisions, criteria or practices operating, which have the effect of discriminating against certain groups of people, by putting them at a disadvantage compared with others, and which cannot be justified as proportionate.
In this case direct discrimination is obviously discounted as no deliberate action has been taken by Waitrose to make life harder for the disabled – or even Mrs Johnson.
Indirect discrimination is a possibility, however I would argue this can also be discounted. I think one would have to be extremely unreasonable to suggest that the measures taken by Waitrose to assist the disabled are not proportionate. Evidently they don’t break UK legislation either.
The fact (that seems to have been missed by a number of posters here) remains that provision has been made for Mrs Johnson and she CAN still shop at Waitrose – just not in the specific way she wishes.
In contrast to your comment about the ethnic shopper. Take another example: what if an chronic agoraphobic wanted to shop at Waitrose? Would the store be unreasonable in refusing to clear all shoppers and staff out of the shop to allow them to shop? Or would we all agree that their delivery service would meet this person’s needs – although perhaps not their wishes. Although I accept this is a more extreme example, it does illustrate the point nicely.
Like Martino, I’m afraid a lot of flowery language is not going to change my view. If any proposed disability discrimination law is going to remove common sense from society and force people to accommodate individual preferences – I deliberately say preferences and not needs – then any campaign to introduce one will alienate a lot of reasonable people who don’t have a discriminatory bone in their body.
Source:
http://www.irr.org.uk/statistics/discrimination.html
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Shelaine – apologies for posting at length again so soon but your post wasn’t visible when I posted mine.
Your point about disabled spaces is fair enough. There will always be differences of opinion about what constitutes reasonable. What really irked me on this particular occasion was the accusations (not by yourself I might add) that were made against Waitrose on account of this story.
Katie made a point just before about “personal abuse” – I would suggest that Waitrose have been subject to some unwarranted and unfair abuse as well. This didn’t surprise me though, as due to the highly emotive nature of such a topic it is my experience that as soon as someone says anything even mildly critical about a disabled person (or suggests they are being unreasonable) they are subject to a torrent of abuse and accusation. This is clearly not the way to engage in reasonable debate or win hearts and minds to a cause.
Disabled people are human beings and not immune from the same shortcomings the rest of us have. I happen to agree with Martino that this lady is being unfair towards Waitrose – who to all accounts have made provision for the disabled. That doesn’t suddenly make us ignorant or discriminatory – I can’t speak for Martino but in my case it just means I (a) think she’s human and (b) have enough respect for her as a human being to treat her in the same fashion I would treat anyone else – including being prepared to openly disagree with her point of view.
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Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh with my last post written close to midnight after getting back home after a few drinks.(I’m perfectly able and went out on my bike by the way).
Anyway, in the cold light of day my argument boils down to this. In no way can Waitrose’s policy re scooters be said to be discriminatory as some allege. As I understand it the store is saying to people like Gina: “Yes, do come in and use your scooter to shop in our bright new, accessible store. You are most welcome but please don’t expect us to provide a scooter for you.”
What on earth is wrong with that? Also, if they are so desperate why can’t the Johnsons do a little something for themselves such as exchanging their present vehicle for one that allows a mobility scooter to be transported? Problem solved.
Looking further ahead all well and good if Guernsey introduces a ‘shopmobility’ scheme like Jersey’s but it should be done through negotiation and agreement with the supermarkets and not through the sledgehammer of legislation.
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Rob Platts
If Gina is not being damning of Waitrose, who told the Guernsey Press and also the TV?
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I think we need to be sensible about this. This is not discrimination. Gina is quite able to do her shopping albeit with a few adjustments, however that is what disability is about I’m sorry to say. People having to adjust to their new surroundings. It is not about businesses having to cater to every minority group in the manner that they choose. There are so many more businesses out there that are much much worse. Why single out Waitrose?
What about these ones?
New Look, Miss Selfridge, Next, M&S clothing – How many clothing retailers have access enabled changing rooms?
How many cafes and restaurants have access enabled toilets? Actually what about Public Loo’s too (the ones that are opened that is…)
HMV – the aisles and cashier line could not be manoeuvred by a wheel chair user.
B&Q don’t have wheelchairs or mobility scooters.
M&S Food which is a far bigger company than Waitrose, worldwide in fact, don’t have in-store wheel chairs or mobility scooters.
The list goes on…
I think Waitrose have done by far more to cater for disabled customers than many if not all of the other retailers in the island. They don’t have one thing. Mobility scooters. They do have helpful assistants and sometimes we all need to put our pride to one side to get the job done.
I’m short. I could complain that Waitrose is discriminating against me with their tall shelves and yes I suppose it is affecting my independence somewhat by asking an assistant to either reach a shelf or get a stepping stool to reach a shelve for me. Do I feel that my independence has been affected so that I cannot shop there ever again? No. I get over it. I’m lucky enough that I’m not disabled (apart from my height I guess), however, disabled people and short people alike have to adjust to their surroundings. If it was absolutely impossible for Gina to be doing her shopping at Waitrose I would be right there with you shouting discrimination! But that’s not the case.
We should really be going for the big ones, not the little ones that don’t happen to have all the equipment required by disabled users but are still accessible and useable.
I would be asking Gina how often she goes clothes shopping and doesn’t she see the lack of clothing shops catering for disabled users much more of a hindrance on her independence than a shop she chooses not to shop in due to pride?
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I have a question…
Why can’t she use her own mobility scooter when it rains?
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Ask anyone who shops in the Town Centre of Basingstoke what they think about motorised mobility scooters, and they will probably say that they are infested with them! and I am not so sure that all those using them really need them.
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I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Waitrose seems to be very keen on customer service. They should just get a motorised scooter and be done with it.
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A very generous response from Martino and thank you. Actually, I agree with you that it should not require a sledge hammer approach to bring in change. I think the point and I cannot speak for others merely make suggestions, is that the Supermarket in its previous form as Shelaine Green points out was not that Disabled Friendly with many of the Isles stacked with display merchandise but it did see that Access was an issue and so provided at least one although I think there may have been two scooters. So if there is a system in place to help Disabled Shoppers – why change it. Yes, I applaud Waitrose for making the store more accessible but in this day an age Access is not just limited to Disabled People who use wheelchairs – parents with buggies demand wider Isles too. Thank you Paul Le Page for the link but it was used merely as an example and not meant to be definitive. If posters read what ‘Hopeful’ posted that they will see that if we try to meet all the expectations/needs’ all of the time we have already failed. We can however, include as many people as possible by either introducing systems which empower people to continue to have a degree of independence or leave well enough alone if it is working already – ie: the scooters were already there.
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Throwing a slight curve ball here….
Isn’t it interested how having “independence” is seen as a vital “right” these days. This whole issue for example revolves around one lady who is prepared to not shop somewhere because she holds such a high value on her “independence.”
I wonder what that says about our society as a whole? Perhaps by putting so much value on independence we are unwittingly doing our community and society a disservice?
We often hear complaints that the “Guernsey community of old” has been lost. Perhaps if we ALL accepted that we all need one another to survive and thrive we might find community spirit returning to Guernsey?
I’m not pontificating here – I write this as someone who is just as stubborn as the next person and doesn’t like admitting he needs help from time to time.
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Just for everyone’s info, Next have a huge changing room downstairs that I imagine is for people in wheelchairs or with a buggy.
I’m not sure about other shops as I normally don’t have time to try on the clothes in the shop so I try them on at home.
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I agree with Martino’s final point in his most recent post – if supermarkets etc were to introduce the provision of mobility scooters either independently or via a shobmobility scheme, let it be through open and constructive consultation and discussion (with the views of all groups within the community being sought) rather than it being through legislation and bureaucracy.
Having said that, in response to some other posts, whilst having Disability Discrimination legislation would, I feel, benefit a pretty large number of islanders, I can’t see how this would be to the detriment of others. Just a personal point of view from a non-Disabled person.
I can’t speak for Waitrose but I’m sure they would be open to discussion with the Guernsey Disability Alliance and all other members of the public, as to access needs within their store to enable people to keep shopping there.
Finally, at the risk of starting another argument, I really didn’t find Katie’s first post, patronising PC verbiage – just someone who is speaking intelligently and probably very knowledgeably. Don’t we need that in healthy debate?
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It is unfortunate that Waitrose could not accommodate this customers needs. Perhaps they could have been a bit more polite in their response. There is space for the mobility chair in the entrance. It could fit one for sure…
Policy is policy I suppose. On a more positive note I think Waitrose is a breath of fresh air on the island.
It is great to be eating food that is fresh, well labelled and most importantly free of contaminating and IQ reducing chemicals.
Wish I could say the same for our apparently caring and local checkers stores…
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Martino. Please have a good long hard look in the mirror. What do you see?
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i work for Waitrose Admiral Park and want my comment on this subject.
I have worked for Checkers for over 3 years and as some one said in a previous post i only saw 1 person using the scooters to get round the shop.
Yes the new Waitrose is a lot better laid out and there is no more stacks of stuff in the aisle’s, plenty of room to move around.
more brighter and cheerful staff, always willing to help.
We do offer wheelchairs for disabled folk and also offer to push the person around the shop and do their shopping for them.
Waitrose is a caring company and i reckon they have taken note of this. i cant say yes or no if they are thinking of this, but they always strive to make their comapany better than the others.
please give it time, Waitrose have only been here a short while and will make things better for everyone.
All my comments are true and i don’t say them because i work for them.
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Phew, so many points raised, it’s hard to know where to begin. To keep it focused, I’ll respond to what struck me first as worthy of debate or I’ll be here all night. But if that misses out something someone would really like to hear the GDA side of, just say.
What struck me was Martino’s “negotiation and agreement” vs “the sledgehammer of legislation”.
As with many things – pay negotiations, divorces, disciplining your kids – negotiation and agreement are always preferable. Hence the stuff you see and hear in the media is just a small part of what the Guernsey Disability Alliance does. The vast majority of our time is spent responding to consultations, inviting in guest speakers, building relationships, giving presentations, sharing information…
But the problem with a ‘negotiation-only’ route is that disabled people never start that negotiation from a position of strength. The other party, be it a business or a States Dept, holds all the cards. No matter how well we explain ourselves, the other party can just say No and that’s an end to it. The likelihood of coming up with reasons to say No is considerably increased by the fact that the majority of the effort required to achieve the negotiated solution – building that ramp or altering that policy or providing that service – has to come from the business or States Dept. Naturally, people tend to start from a basis of not wanting to change something they are comfortable and familiar with, particularly if it has a cost in time, resources or brainpower.
The GDA will never ever stop negotiating but we urgently need a law in place to back us up. To level the playing field somewhat. One of the most positive effects of a law will never be seen in the courts. It will incentivise businesses, depts etc to bring in disability equality training which will mean that they are more likely to understand what we are negotiating about in the first place.
We need a law because, even in this day and age, some people still do not behave even remotely reasonably towards disabled people. There are employers who don’t interview people with the skills for the job, don’t provide basic equipment, don’t protect people from bullying, choose them for redundancy first. Many employers are very supportive (Waitrose is a great example) but unfortunately not everyone is as enlightened and, just like seatbelts, no amount of explanation or training is going to make them so. We need a law.
We need a law because constantly having to negotiate to achieve the basics in life that other take for granted exhausts and frustrates people who really need their energy for other things.
We need a law – but it doesn’t have to be the UK law. The one positive thing about being at least 20 years behind the times on this (the UK DDA was introduced in 1995 and was years in the drafting) is that we can learn from others’ experience, pick from what’s worked around the world and develop something simple but effective. And right for Guernsey.
Happy Easter everyone.
*** If you are a disabled person who would like to join the GDA, or you are a non-disabled person who would like to help us “win hearts and minds to the cause” as Paul put it, please email us at guernseydisability@yahoo.co.uk ***
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Presumably, this is not the only woman on the island who has to use a wheelchair and who finds shopping awkward. How does everyone else manage I wonder? If Waitrose dosen’t suit, then go to a shop that does provide what Waitrose dosen’t. Or perhaps use the mobility scooter you already have?
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I’ve just done my shopping at Waitrose Admiral Park this morning and noticed Mr Reece-Sherin there in a Waitrose uniform.
In a wheelchair.
Quite clearly it appears that someone in a wheelchair is able to work comfortably enough at Waitrose…I should imagine that someone in a wheelchair would therefore be able to shop quite comfortably too.
Hardly being discriminatory are they?!
This also may be the reason he hasn’t commented on this story.
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@Martin MacIntyre
Why don’t you have a good long hard look in your mirror first and tell me what you see?
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katie
Great posts the truth sometimes hurts the guernsey person,personal attacks they think are fine,truly shocking.
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I frequently have mobility problems and ALWAYS use my own scooter. I like to be independant and not to rely on a shop to supply me with a scooter.If they supply customers with a scooter it is as a courtesy. Stop whining!
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The recent posts by g, Lynnie and ugly1 are most illuminating.
First, we have the testimony of ugly1, who used to work for Checkers and now works for Waitrose. How interesting that during his/her three years with Checkers he/she witnessed the store-provided scooter being used by no more than one person.
Then comes Lynnie’s post, which is even more revealing. It turns out that Waitrose actually employs someone who is wheelchair bound, which is a lot more than can be said for the Co-op, M&S and Alliance.
Finally, we have the contribution by g, a local person who relies on his/her mobility scooter for his/her independence. A most telling viewpoint from someone whose opinion, I suspect, is far more representative of Guernsey’s ‘disabled community’ than those who are trying to make Waitrose into the bad guy.
I’d also like to take this opportunity to address the latest points raised by Shelaine re future legislation to prevent discrimination against the disabled. Actually I have no opposition in principle, for the sound reasons Shelaine outlines, but the fear remains that the legal ‘sledgehammer’ could be used unreasonably to ‘force’ stores like Waitrose to change their policies – even when they are being perfectly reasonable, as is the case here.
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Great post Paul Le Page. Asking for help should not be seen as a failure. A bit of community interaction is a great thing. Even if Waitrose did have a mobility scooter in place, total independence is still not achieved as one is still going to need help to access the items from the higher shelves and sometimes carrying heavy bags etc anyway. Internet shopping would do a lot more for independence than any scooter but at the expense of face to face community interaction. I suspect that Waitrose will just get a scooter and be done with the issue.
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thank you for using this forum to post lots of different views. To answer some of the responses I would like to say that my husband who drives for me is unable to push me in a wheel chair as he too is disabled. We cannot afford to buy a car which has room in the back for a mobility scooter so we do the best we can given our circumstances. I try to make the most of my life by shopping on a scooter and I do ask for help when I cannot reach something.I find clothes shopping very difficult and as my life with M.S. has slowly taken away my ability to do alot of things. M.S. can be a slow progressive illness which means alot of changes and challenges as people with M.S. have to learn new ways of coping. If you want to find out more about M.S. go to http://WWW.guernseyms.org or http://www.mssociety.org.uk I have nothing against Waitrose personally but I had excellent sevice from Checkers using their scooter and it was not only me who used the facilty they provided. I like the improvements Waitrose have made with the wider uncluttered isles but it is ashame they took away old scooters without providing new scooters.
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Noting that I have been challenged to make comment here more than once it needs to be said I am possibly only one of two people who trained professionally to offer Access and Disability Equality Consultancy within the Bailiwick. That said yes I do work for the said company and yes I value my position there which is why it is unfair for anyone to expect me qualified or not to make public comment here. Suffice it to say though, I and I alone, know what my ‘Access Requirements’ are both by my professional training and as a Wheelchair-User.
By way of wishing to educate and not patronise and/or disparage – I am not ‘wheelchair bound’. I have Paraplegia and sleep in a bed and sit in an ordinary chair in the home just like other people. Should anyone wish my private comment please contact GDA
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From my understanding of what I have read I would employ the Orienteering principle -’we march together or not at all’ IE: it is a ‘red herring’ as to how many people used the system. The system was already there and worked for at least one Guernsey person – so adding the other adage – ‘if it ain’t broke why fix it?’ I believe ‘Common Sense’ will prevail. Do please continue the discussion and refrain from personal snipes as this only detracts from the adult discussion of a clearly important subject
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Thanks for your clarification Aindre. I accept I should have said ‘… Waitrose actually employs someone who is a wheelchair user…’
Thanks for clarifying your situation too Gina. Let the debate continue.
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Aindre, one of only two people trained to offer this “service” within the Bailiwick?
Who did the training then?
Was this a once in a lifetime course?
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@Martino – thank you that is really big of you and much appreciated. @Ed – I trained to the National Register of Access Consultants soon after it was first introduced and was one of the first Disabled People to qualify. Got to meet with Professor Mike Oliver the Originator of The Social Model of Disability. I was the senior Access Consultant for the whole of NetworkRail UK and consulted on a number of projects here in the Bailiwick – Sir Charles Frossard House, Edward T Wheadon House and passed many months researching the possibilities of making Castle Cornet Wheelchair-Friendly at a ‘reasonable’ level. The latter awaiting Funding and specific departments approval. Yes definitely, a once in a life time opportunity and at the same time I trained to become a Diversity and Equalities Training Officer.
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Seems there is a lot to do in Guernsey to catch up with Jersey who are streets ahead of us regarding access for wheelchairs/mobility scooters/prams etc. when my youngest two were in a double pram it was a nightmare to push them along pavements that were too narrow, and shopping with them , impossible if no twin trolleys available.Jersey have mobility scooters everywhere even special parking and hire ones. As more people are living longer this helps them get around independently. I think Waitrose should install a moblity scooter and twin trolleys,so we can have a happy ending to this debate.
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I’m a former Guernsey resident now living in the UK. I also happen to be disabled, although I do not currently use a wheelchair. I used to love living on Guernsey, and most of my family are still there. However the island is so difficult for disabled visitors to manage, a visit home is verging on an ordeal now. I’ve frequently been met with a shrug and a ‘not my problem’ attitude when asking for assistance everywhere from the airport to hotels to shops. This happens even where my needs have been notified in advance.
I live in Poole and whilst it’s far from perfect, at least provision is made for the less-than-able-bodied. For example, we have a shopmobility scheme, so people with fluctuating conditions, or visitors to the town, can hire a mobility scooter if needed. Many of our supermarkets provide at least one motorised scooter for use in store; larger branches often have two, and that’s in addition to wheelchairs and several different styles of shopping trolley. Waitrose in Guernsey sounds like it’s made an excellent start – I hope the powers that be will now consider taking it a stage further and provide a scooter for use by Gina and others. The store could offset the cost by the positive PR this could bring, perhaps?!
On a more general note, I work fulltime with minimal adjustments in place to cater for my disabilities. However, I could not have reached the point I am at now, were I not helped in the past by schemes to help the disabled which came about as a result of the Disability Discrimination Act (now superceded by the Equality Act). I am independant instead of stuck at home and living off benefits, and I am far from an unusual case. Levelling the playing field for the disabled can benefit society as a whole – and save the taxpayer money in the long run!
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Purely a thought , the previous scooter would not have been on the itinerary when Waitrose took over the store , so someone , somewhere has the old scooter… might be worth asking Sandpiper what happened to it ?
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I went to waitrose and my shopping bill doubled. I didn’t seem to have an awfull lot to show for it either. I won’t be going back very often.
Back on topic. As long as the shop is wheelchair friendly I don’t see why they should have to supply mobility scooters as well. Although I have to ask why did they not buy the checkers ones as they were already there?
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Having read all of the above, I personally think the new Waitrose is a big improvement on the old checkers. I too am a wheelchair user, and have only to ask a member of staff or another customer to reach something if its too high – this is Guernsey – MOST people are nice and dont mind at all! I cant really see that Waitrose should provide a mobility scooter just because Checkers did….. There are plenty of places I cant get into but I dont take offence because of it, I just use the places that I can – this is common sense! What I cant get here, I get online – no steps to get into virtual stores :)
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Girlygirl
Thanks for the most pleasant common sense post so far on this subject
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@Aindre – thanks for the detail.
I’m humbled that you gave all that training up to work in retail and provide your services for free through the GP.
Top dollar for your dedication.
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Aindre – quick question for you re the marathon, what do you mean a level playing field or course – I thought you were the only wheelchair competitor in last years event so surely it was fair for you – were you saying it had to be a level playing field so to speak between the runners and the wheelchairs – if so is nt that going too far.
Afraid I missed the point of the article and just a suggestion, less is sometimes more!
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@ Ed – thank you kind sir
Hi Jack, As a former runner I could drive really easily up hills through my legs – whereas, using a Race Wheelchair the inclines are so steep and, the centre of balance is so fine that I am quite literally tipping out of my chair trying to get up the hills. I am punching into every last resource within the first 8 miles of the full marathon. I believe that the course is not just a challenge but dangerous for all users. Granted – Some runners are better on the flat and some better on hills. The course I suggested would simply make it open to more participants at any level which is why I make the suggestion that a visually Impaired person could do my suggested course as opposed to the St Andrew’s Airport/Pleinmont route. Please do not think I am being off with you but if you are around 11 stone then please feel free to come and have a go in my race chair to gain some understanding of what I am trying (unsuccessfully) to communicate. – Warmly Andre
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Aindre – thanks for posting, but on this I disagree with you. They get the course certified by marathon officials and it still isnt good enough! All I am suggesting is give it a break sometimes!
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