No one should have to work on a Sunday
Wednesday 11th May 2011, 11:30AM BST.
Lay preacher Peter Derham believes Sunday should be a day of rest.
PEOPLE should not be made to work on Sundays, lay preacher Peter Derham said.
He was speaking about the Sunday trading laws, which limit what can be sold. Some larger shops are also prevented from opening.
‘I’m totally against it full stop because I believe that every society should have a day of rest. People should not be made to work Sundays because it’s a family day,’ he said.
Mr Derham, a former Vale deputy, added that his viewpoint had nothing to do with his religious convictions.
But a recent survey by Island Analysis revealed that 63% of islanders wanted the Sunday trading laws thrown out.
Commerce and Employment has confirmed that it will go out to public consultation on the issue later in the year before it makes any recommendations.
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Totally agree with Peter Derham – spending time with family is so important….. more important than making money I’m afraid!
There are 10 people in my office and I just asked them if they think people should work on a Sunday, to which 100% said no.
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I really dob’t want to work sundays, I could do with the extra cash but it would ruin my weekend, I can’t go out friday night because I work saturday and I wouldn’t be able to go out Saturday night because i’d work sunday…plus i’d miss sunday lunch with the family
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Nobody is saying that anyone should HAVE to work on a Sunday but what you and this bible thumper are seeking to do is impose your views on others who do want to work on Sundays. Also your office poll means nothing. It sounds as if the question was loaded anyway.
The only proper, unbiased, definitive survey on this issue was carried out by Island Analysis, who are professional pollsters, and the outcome is quite clear. Only a small minority such as Peter Derham want these outdated and ludicrous restrictions to stay in place.
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Oh what drivel! I am fed up with this debate – I have worked Sundays, Saturdays, bank holidays including xmas day, new year’s day etc all my working life – it is no biggie!
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absolute Rubbish …
Thing is that the people who don’t WANT to work on a Sunday don’t have to and they can go out and fly to Jersey for the day or go out to Beau Sejour or go out for a bar lunch etc etc where strangly enough people are working on a SUNDAY !
Sorry Mr Derham , but without people working on a Sunday you would not be able to read your sunday papers or watch television etc ..
How about banning ALL Sunday working then – after all a Vicar HAS to work on a Sunday dosen’t he ?
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But how many of those 10 people you work with go to the garden centre or petrol station for the pappers on a sunday??….Most i bet
It should be down to choice, if staff are happy to work sundays then so be it!!…and they can have the Monday off or a day in lou!
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There is not sufficient employment protection in Guernsey, to protect the low paid, who will be asked to work on a sunday, But that will not be taken into account, consultation or not, if the Banksters/Buisness want to shop on sundays then it will happen. THAT IS GUERNSEY….
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Jeff
I hope your colleagues stay true to their principals and therefore don’t buy anything on a Sunday from shops, restaurants, garages, pubs, beach kiosks etc on a Sunday, otherwise they’re being rather hypocritical don’t you think?
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I would like to ask a question ..
To everyone who things Sunday working should stop – How do you spend your Sundays ?
Forget the “spend time with my family” answers I would like to know what physical activities you do
Its not a trick question
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Peter
You were a Police officer for several years.Did you never work on a Sunday?
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Jeff are you saying that if the shops are open you have to go shopping?
Or are you saying that the people who work on Sunday also work the other 6 days of a week? cos they do not.
Allowing shops to open on Sunday makes no difference to this “family day”. If you decide to work on a Sunday have your “family day” on a Saturday.
This is ludicrous, people should be allowed to have the choice of when they shop, and where they shop. At no point has anybody been forced to work anywhere they do not want to and that will still remain the case, on several occasions as a doorman I have worked on a Sunday, and I challenge you to tell me you have NEVER used a shop on a Sunday, because if you have used a shop, garage or anything on a Sunday where people are working and not being with their family then I am afraid your argument holds no weight because you are taking advantage of the shop opening on a Sunday, and that applied to anybody who is against Sunday trading, I would imagine you have never been shopping on a Sunday, and I hope that is the case as you are all so against it.
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I doubt that by giving shops the option to open on Sundays this will impact on people being able to spend time with their families. Why limit this just to shops? Surely every industry would therefore have the right to have Sunday as ‘family day’. Cinemas, cafe’s, kiosks, hospital, police…the list goes on. Whatever you choose to do on a Sunday let’s hope you don’t use any services which require someone else to work that day for you to have your ‘family day’.
Sunday working laws will still be in place which clearly states that people who work in retail can still opt out of Sunday working.
We are discussing Sunday Trading Law not Sunday Working.
When I worked in retail in the UK I always had a rota system which ensured that people weren’t working both Saturday and Sundays and had one weekend (both days) off a month. This obviously worked for my business so was fine. Most retailers in Guernsey would be able to devise a fair working schedule if Sunday Trading Laws were relaxed.
In most cases there are young adults who welcome working Sundays rather than Saturdays for the higher rate of pay.
People are looking at their own narrow interests rather than looking at the larger picture and I find it somewhat hypocritical of people as these people will no doubt be the ones who pop down the shop to get the Sunday papers.
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“Mr Derham, a former Vale deputy, added that his viewpoint had nothing to do with his religious convictions”
Really!?
Where does it state that ‘Sunday’ is a family day if not making reference to the Bible’s day of rest.
Would Mr Derham be appeased if employees were given the option of having Saturday as a family day and working a Sunday instead???
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Sorry for posting so quickly. I just carried out a quick survey in the office.
Jeff – in my office it’s 65% for and 35% against. You probably think that my statistic is about as useful as I think yours is :)
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Jeff: Of course if you are in a job that does not usually work on Sundays, neither would you want to work on Saturdays if i.e. Mon-Fri is normal hours.
Lets just hope you don’t get robbed and hurt on a broken down boat while your house is on fire on a Sunday eh! If you know what I mean.
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So effectively his opinion is that people should be forced not to work…. except a few “essential workers” such as those required to pour beer.
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and it has everything to do with his religious convictions- if it did not then is he also against church work on a Sunday? (ie preaching… pouring tea/coffee etc for people in the church etc). I have nothing against his convictions (and am in fact for many of them) but above all I am for honesty, equality and freedom to choose.
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You know: I read most answers on these blogs, so on this one I think it works out like this.
Those smart Alecs will always find an answer to peoples questions, it’s human nature, never mind if they believe or not.
Then of course there are those who may not agree about any given subject, but to stir the pot they’ll go against most things.
However to always bring up the fact that Vicars work on Sundays, or all the hum and hams of what comes to mind is just silly.
What a lot of people fear, and rightly so, Is the fact that if it becomes law, that people can work on Sunday (shops etc) it will not belong before the big Bosses insist -or else.
Oh yes by allowing it by law will bring out the worst.
One asked what do you do on a Sunday?
My answer to that is I do nothing, just make it a lazy day, read a little. watch a little TV. But yes I suppose I do work on a Sunday- I actually go into the garden a cut a couple lettuce to have with the Spider Crab.
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No one should have to work on a Sunday – ie.
Nurses,doctors, firemen, airport staff, taxi drivers, powr station engineers, harbour staff, waiters, waitresses, ambulance drivers, hotel receptionists, etc etc etc.
God squaders take note!!!
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Islander
the reality is though that everybody who doesn’t want things to change uses the reasons that they want to go away, go out for lunch etc etc and people HAVE to work for them to enjoy their pleasure time.
The prime example is Le Friquet garden Centre , always packed with families and kids looking at the books , animals, toys and such like but cant buy them
AT LEAST let the law change on what CAN be sold asap and then sort out who can or cant open as and when . its crazy you can buy alcohol but not a childs toy at Le Friquet
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peter.
vicars and priests work on sunday and some go out for meals afterwards.
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Lay Preacher Peter Derham said: “I was recently driven through the Grand Bouet with the windows rolled up and the doors locked and I can honestly say that I’d have felt marginally safer running through Longleat Safari Park wearing beef pants”
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Toady!
Couldn’t have put it better, and I agree, of course we are that stupid as not to realise that some people Have to work on a Sunday.
All I ask is that if essential then by the grace allow it.
But just to put another burden on the housewife is absolutely unreal.
She deserves a day off (ha ha )O after she has made the beds swept the floor, peeled the spuds got the veg ready then cooks the Sunday meal.
Then when all others sit and relax she washes up.
No I say to Sunday work.
En Passant: if we are as one put it ‘Bible-Punchers’ surely that’s not a sin. nor is it an item to be ridiculed, after all we do not force others to join, it’s a free choice -one of the few available to us.
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…Hi peter,
here is a thought you may wish to contemplate..”Thank God for Charlie Darwin”…you cannot stop evolution in any of its workings.God does seem to work in misty and mysterious ways?
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Free choice eh islander? How about free choice for those retaillers who want to open on a Sunday and free choice for those want to shop?
It interesting to read what you get up to on a Sunday – can you honestly say that you have not been to a pub, restaurant, garden centre or shop on a Sunday? If you have, and using the terminolgy of the nay sayers on these threads, why are you happy for these people to be ‘forced’ to work on Sunday?
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I take it you are ALL happy to work on Sunday
Can’t wait!
Lynnie perhaps you should do a survey on who in your office is prepared to work on Sunday after all they can have Monday off. In fact why don’t you set a shining example to us all and offer to work on Sunday and have Monday off after all you CAN see the bigger picture.
Let’s ALL emrace change and work on Sunday no problem!
Finally I am so excited to know that the champion of Sunday trading(the Guernsey Press) will be providing me with a Sunday Guernsey press to read no more waiting for Monday to read Saturday’s news yipee!
Every arguement on here for anyone to work on Sunday aplies to everyone. Let’s go for it together!
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Dave:
I, not being English, and satisfied to be a Guernsey man. I do understand most English words.
Therefore when I wrote free choice I meant just that.
What problem have you got by asking if those who wish to use Sunday for whatever. why do ask have they free choice.
Surely when I write and say ‘Free choice’ it means just that….
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Try to get it into your skull kevin. There are plenty of us out there who are used to working on Sundays and who are more than willing to work on Sundays. There are enough of us out there to service the needs of those who want to relax on Sundays. There are enough of us to ensure that anyone who does not want to work on a Sunday will not have to work on a Sunday. Stop trying to make a problem out of something that isn’t.
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Actually Kevin, quite a few of of us do work on Sundays…there are other businesses open on a Sunday in Guernsey, not just retail.
In fact I’ve come from several Companies where I was required to work on a Sunday. When I was brought up both my parents had careers which required shift work including Sundays.
My family life has not suffered as an effect and for anyone to put this up as the main reason to disallow ANY Sunday trading is just pure silly.
Sunday is being held up as some sort of holy grail. I’m mearly saying perhaps those days are gone…or going, therfore let retailers make up their own mind. If people don’t want it, as some of you are suggesting, then it will be pretty obvious with retailers deciding not to open in much the same way that some pubs decide not to open on a Sunday.
Relaxing the law will not force retailers to open. Many businesses can open on a Sunday now but they chose not to.
I really don’t see what the fuss is all about.
This subject has been done to death! How many threads are there now on relaxing the Sunday Trading Laws?
For goodness sake States! do an island-wide survey, make a decision then stick by it whichever way it goes.
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Lynnie
The States are already leaping into action
They will be consulting the public ‘some time later this year’
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Well Mr Derham, once more operating mouth before engaging brain.
Are you saying that everyone should have a Sunday off? Tell me how they are going to cook, take a hot shower or bath,watch TV or light their houses, People on life support machines would be in trouble if the power station were to shut done for 24 hours on Sundays (and part of Saturdays and Mondays to close down and restart the machinery safely).
Are the Emergency services, Airport, Harbours, Hotels, Restuarants, Buses (if there are any servicable enough to run), Taxis, Beach Kiosks, Hospitals and Old Folks Homes, Telephone Companies, Growers and Farmers (cows don`t milk themselves and crops need watering and gathering for Mondays markets), Security Companies, Prison, Religious Organisations, and yes, even Driving Instructors, all to close down because a few religious zealots want to live in the past?
Hey, hang on a minute. What day is it that The Pope, The Archbishop of Canterbury, Priests, Nuns, Rectors, Church Organists and anyone else in religious organisations work?
If they stop working on Sundays what is left to do? God forbid that that should happen, where would people go to pray for all the sad Sunday workers?
Wake up Mr Derham, not everyone has families (husband, wife and 2.4 children) and wouldn`t care if they work Sundays, some famiies would even enjoy taking the kids on a shopping trip on the way to the beach. Some would prefer to work Sunday and have another day off in the week.
Contracts could be drawn up between employer and employee to suit both as they do in all the above trades and I`m sure there are many would like the arrangements. People won`t work if the the conditions aren`t right.
If the need for their goods or service is there then companies will open their shops, if it isn`t then they won`t, but the right to choose to do so should be up to them not to people who live in the past. In today`s economic climate some shops may need to open for the extra day to get through it so do you have the right to deny them trying to survive?
Come into today`s modern world, you may even find some enjoyment in your sad life.
In case you hadn`t noticed you are no longer a politician so may I ask why people should take any notice of your opinions? Are you above the rest?
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Islander,
about being a ‘bible puncher’ being a sin, well you are the one who has faith so only you can answer that. But as for faith being something not to be ridiculed i’m afraid you are completely wrong there. i shall say what i like about faith in the supernatural, it’s silly.
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Islander
Your post is really lost on me. What has this got to you being a satisfied Guernsey man and not being English? I thought this was debate about Sunday trading laws?
Back to my question, do you use pubs, shops, garden centres etc. on a Sunday then? If so, you must be happy for these people to work so why not others?
Either way the states should make a decision. If they decide to close all shops (which would not be my choice) then so be it and end of argument!
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If Sunday becomes just another day then employers will stop paying enhanced rates for Sundays.Sunday trading laws were brought in to protect workers from the Scooge employers and to improve the working mans lot.Do we really want to go back to the days of lots of low paid workers pandering to those with money?
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I Le Page – there is still the law protecting workers (I’m feeling like a broken record) from working on Sundays. There will still need to be an incentive to attract Sunday workers. There is no obligation at the moment for employers to offer an enhanced rate, and some don’t. However, if there is more competition and more jobs on offer then employers need to make themselves look attractive.
This won’t bring down hourly rates.
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DFAVE
You say “Your post is lost on me”
that bit about being a Guernsey man and not English-
Well so often the subject comes up and Guernsey people are ridiculed, but those who should know their own language better, unfortunately many prefer to go to the slang americanism.
I wished to point out that we do understand English “as she is spoke”
So although you may think it smart at times (not particularly you) but since the English stopped our Language being taught in schools our language is dying out, as is our ways.
I will not go into a slanging match with you, so don’t bother to smirk.
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No-one HAS to work Sundays. FULL STOP. If you have a business which would benefit and you can pay and incentive those staff to work whilst still turning a profit then great!
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I worked for 4 months without a day off in 2009 and the rest of the year with one day off a month, I made a lot of money which was spent on a deposit for a house I’m not bragging but people have worked sundays before. I think the real debate is about should the shops be open, most people that say no probably don’t go to town or the bridge of a weekend anyway Give it trial and see what happens
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What amazes me is why the Guernsey Press even bother publishing this story. Really does anyone care what Peter Derham thinks, would the GP be prepared to dedicate column inches to my opinion on Sunday opening (I support it by the way)or for that matter create a news article about any other individuals opinion on this.
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Islander
Well i am still lost but you are not dull so i tip my top hat.
I think perhaps we should agree to disagree :)
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Essential workers need to work on Sundays, this is obvious. Essential being, nurses, doctors, paramedics, etc etc, We are talking, probably, about shops, pubs, etc which do not need to be open 7 days a week. Do you remember when we used to fill up with petrol on a Saturday, because we couldn’t on a Sunday? or buy our booze on a Saturday cos we couldn’t on a Sunday? We all seemed to cope. Point is, once everything is open – we assume we “need” it. We don’t. I would like the library to be open, but that’s never going to happen. If you can’t get everything done by Saturday night, something is obviously wrong with your work/life balance. Poor old PD – it seems you can’t raise your head above the parapet and say what you want, without everyone taking a good old pop at you.
It’s nice to see someone actually having an opinion who is not afraid of making it known.
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i work sundays, and i absolutey love it. Familly days are great once a year maybe once a month but its not what everyone wants to do every sunday! sundays over in guernsey have to be one of the worst days of the week, therefoe i would much rather be at work and have a day off n the week. Its just guenseys 9-5 mon-fri mentality. Its sad that people ‘live for the weekend’. GET A LIFE!!!
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Lynie Laws cannot protect workers to that extent,you will just get sacked for some other reason,and of course if you need a job you will not got taken on if they know your averse to working sundays.
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Well now, how interesting to see how, once again, this topic brings stupidity to the surface and prejudices are rife. I guess that makes for good debate.
Fact – certain services are required to work on a Sunday, irrespective of “family time”, as has been documented above – Nurses, firefighters, St Johns Ambulance, lifeboat, Police, Airport staff, harbour staff…. Any change to the law will not affect them.
I appreciate what Peter Derham is saying and take his point about spending time with the family. It’s a nice idea and many will agree with him. However, this won’t appeal to everyone for whatever reason. I therefore agree with others who state choice is important.
What does amaze me are the number of correspondents above who seem to think that employees will have a say, a “free choice”, about whether they work on a Sunday! Are they stupid?!
It’s the employer who tells them when they are working, not the other way round.
Depending on which industry you happen to work in will determine how likely you will be asked to work on a Sunday (this is unlikely to be most office workers – and this isn’t a slight at them, I am one). I’m not saying it’s right but it is something to consider in this debate.
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It is a ridiculous notion that a Sunday (not) trading law needs to exist to protect ‘family time’ or because of religious reasons, or to protect people who don’t want to work on a Sunday from having to.
Family time can exist, if you want it, whether or not shops are open.
If you can get drunk on a Sunday I’m sure the big guy won’t mind the odd bit of shopping.
If you don’t want to work on a Sunday, go find a job where it will not be required. I’ll bet most police officers, nurses, firemen etc would prefer not to work on a Sunday (or through the night for that matter). Luckily for us they accept it as a part of their job.
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How can they come up with a percentage figure of those who are for it or against it when I personally haven’t been asked for an opinion, nor I guess has most of the population? We’re talking a proper referendum here. Personally, I am totally against Sunday trading for any business. What a rat race we are forced to live in any day of the week. Who needs a break? I do – and Sunday is the perfect choice, especially for family environment and nurturing of our young!!
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I work at the airport and totally support the no Sunday working idea ;0) Can’t wait to have every Sunday off, hopefully before the summer ends.
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Nicola, there was no need for your Grand Bouet comment! That is just typical of Guernsey – stereotype! Just plain rude
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this is about retail folks,people who take on other jobs are told if they have to work weekends,in this economic climate store owners should have a choice whether they want to open or not on a sunday,remember we are in the 21st century not the 18th as some islanders still think they are!
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I think it would be bad for the Police not to work on Sundays the Criminals would get to know and they could rob the Bank.
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Its very simple….Allow anyone to open if they want to then let the people decide if they use it or not…..how hard can it be?
These are not the dark ages any more!!!
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This is not about Sunday working, we all know that plenty of people inc the clergy work on a Sunday. This is about is it sensible to allow all shops to open on Sundays?
The answer economically has got to be no. It costs more to the trader, costs will go up all week to pay for it and people still only have the same amount of disposable income, so overall takings will not rise. Those who think otherwise do not understand basic economics.
The comparison with emergency services, pubs and restaurants is also flawed. No one who is against Sunday shopping would ever suggest that the emergency services should not work on Sunday and the shops will not be open for as long as the pubs. Here in the UK the big stores can only open for 6 hours, pubs and smaller outlets open much longer.
Come on Guernsey lets get the banks, the post offices and the States departments open on Sunday too. Ah thought not, you are the ones who want to go to M and S.
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Scrapping Sunday trading laws doesn’t necessarily have to mean an absence of protection for those in low paid jobs who may be overworked, or face unemployment.
It would be completely feasible to have some other kind of law mandating an entitlement to one full day a week off work if someone is working more than say 30 hours.
This religiously-driven compulsion to cut economic activity on one particular day cuts absolutely no mustard with me. It’s frustrating for those of us that do work Monday-Friday that our opportunities to spend time off are curtailed because someone else’s belief states that supermarkets can’t open.
I have every sympathy with low and often underpaid employees who deserve days off work. But enforcing that it has to be a Sunday is unnecessary and a slap in the face to productivity.
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Nick Le P. Great point which pro Sunday Traders just cannot answer. Why will banks not open? Why will Advocates be shut? Why will Surveyors be at home and not asssiting house buyers with their reports??
Yep. They’re the people who want to enjoy shopping on a Sunday, never mind the lackies who have to work (sorry have the choice, but will be bullied by their employers if they don’t).
Rich = Having the choice of providing of your services to the public on a Sunday.
Poor = Providing a service to the above.
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“The answer economically has got to be no.”
Well, you’ve shown you know little or nothing about commerce, Nick Le P, with that rather simplistic statement.
Just as the owners of Le Friquet. The answer for them is ‘yes’ – and that is despite them not being able to sell half their goods because of the current mad restrictions.
Of course the answer for others will indeed be no, in which case they can stay closed.
Your entire post is yet another example of a member of the pro-restrictions lobby trying to foist his lifestyle and his philosophy on a majority who want to see freedom of choice in this matter.
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Not enough people would use the services of surveyors, banks, advocates on a Sunday to make it lucrative to open. I dunno about the rest of you but I have 24hr access to my bank anyway with internet banking and phone banking. I don’t go into a branch very often as it is! There’s the odd thing to go in for but really…most things can be done online. The people who don’t have online access or don’t use it are very much a minority. Therefore they can wait till Monday. I’m not sure this topic is about providing a “service”…I’m not convinced people actually need the items that Le Friquet cannot sell on a Sunday but they would probably like them. Especially visitors. Noticed a cruise ship in yesterday with tourists milling around town looking in shop windows…
I really wouldn’t want to take up my Sunday visiting an advocate or surveyor as they’re rarely fun activities. Shopping (my missus tells me) is fun.
Let businesses decide when to open and when to shut based on their customer demand.
The UK has some sort of law depiciting how many rest hours workers should have in a 7 day or 14 day period. Therefore it ensures there’s adequate rest periods.
I doubt many of the nay sayers above actually work in retail. So it won’t effect them. Quit stirring the pot.
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Scrap the restrictions and natural market forces and freedom of choice will determine who opens and who stays shut on a Sunday.
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“The answer economically has got to be no.”
Well, you’ve shown you know little or nothing about commerce, Nick Le P, with that rather simplistic statement.
So Martino, help me out with my commerical understanding. Where are people going to get extra cash to spend on a Sunday that they don’t already spend between Monday and Saturday?
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Well Nick, since I work all week, out of town and miss the shops, I HAVE to do all my shopping on a Saturday, so perhaps you can see its pretty frustrating to not be able to shop on a Sunday.
But, I found a solution, I use the internet. lose lose, GSY’s economy loses out, and the god squadders in the states get what they want, no work on Sunday.
So actually local business takes a hit again….
Looking at what I have spent online so far this year, GSY has missed out at least £1,500 of my money.
So sorry, Martino got you there…
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Sanguine, Very well put.
Just because a lot of people can shop on Mon-Sat does not mean everybody can.
I have to be honest and say I am sick of this pointless discussion. Basically, you scrap the law and gives the shops the freedom of choice.
If they want to open they can and sort out contracts for their staff and if they dont want to open they dont. this is hardly rocket science.
I dont see how anybody can object to this simple change unless they are being forced to work on a Sunday which we already know they cant be.
This whole situation doesn’t deserve more than 5 minutes in a states meeting, it is simply asking the question “do we allow shops to use their discretion about whether or not to open on a Sunday” and then its a simple yes or no, if the open then sell the products they have and if they don’t it doesn’t even matter what they sell.
I think all those who are against this are being unfair to the people who may want to open or work on a Sunday, just because you don’t think people should doesn’t mean they don’t want to.
We are no longer under Nazi rule so give people the freedom of choice, it really is as simple as that.
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@ Sanguine. So you shop on a Saturday? No need to open on Sunday then is there? As for internet shopping I suspect that has everything to do with price and nothing to do with opening hours.
For the record, whilst I am a Christian, I am not a God squadder and have never argued this debate on those grounds.
Also, if Sunday opening is so needed and lucrative why did very few traders open for the 4000 cruise ship passengers?
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The mistake you are making, Nick, is to equate Sunday opening with seven days per week opening. Liberalising the laws will enable traders to be more flexible in choosing which day or days of the week they decide to close. Some shopkeepers would relish being able to open on Sundays to sell their full range of goods and shut up shop on a Monday, for example, but as things stand they are prevented from so doing. Others will choose to move from five or six days per week opening to six or seven days per week opening. And do tell me where the economic sense is in stopping shops like Le Friquet, who do choose to open on Sunday, from selling their full range of goods.
As Sanguine says, you have lost the economic argument. As GM Says: “Scrap the restrictions and natural market forces and freedom of choice will determine who opens and who stays shut on a Sunday.”
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Scott – comparing the dabate on Sunday opening to
the horror of Nazi occupation is inappropriate to say the least. Are you local, have you forgotten?
Martino – it isn’t a mistake I am making. Are you seriously suggesting that shops will shut on a different day becuase they can open on Sunday? That will never happen as the trader will fear the loss to the competitor who is open on the day they shut. Also, to close on a different day will affect weekend workers for exactly the same reason as the argument you and Sanguine make for a change of law.
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Nick Le P
Surely as a Christian you should be arguing for people to uphold the 4th Commandment?
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Nick – it’s common for traders to do as Martino suggested in places without Sunday trading restrictions. The shift would be gradual, but the fact remains that most employees don’t work in shops, and so more people have Sunday as a day off in which to spend leisure time (eg. shopping) than on say a Monday. Weekend workers could still get to shops on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, etc. This is not a suggestion that all shops would suddenly close on a Monday, as opposed to any other day.
There are already many people in town on Sundays in pubs and restaurants, there’s no reason to assume it would be the quietest of days for any trader, and therefore the logical one to close.
Not to mention may shops have a number of staff and could stay open 7 days a week without employees or owners working 7 days a week.
Saying there is ‘no need’ for Sunday shopping because you can do it on a Saturday is a non-argument. Perhaps I have something more important to do on Saturday this weekend? And even if I didn’t, I would prefer the huge weekend crowds to be spread over two days.
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Thanks Mark for that. I was going to say something along those lines but you’ve saved me the trouble. That still leaves one question for Nick that he’s been avoiding like the plague so far.
Do you agree that Le Friquet should be able to sell its full range of goods on Sundays?
Or let’s put it another way: Do you want to see Le Friquet closed down completely on Sundays?
We’re all waiting!
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Phil – no not necessarily. In a non-christian world I do not expect everyone to abide by christian principles.
Mark here in the UK where Sunday trading laws are how you would like them to be, no one shuts on a weekday, Guernsey will be no different.
Martino – on the subject of avoiding questions, where am I going to get extra cash from to sepnd in the shops on sundays? When you have answered that sensibly, I will give you my view on Le Friquet, is that OK?
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dd
Does Mrs dd become annoyed when you take time off work to go to the Dentist or to the Advocate?? Do such visits, between Monday and Friday, tend to eat into your annual leave entitlement, or are you in a professional occupation where obtaining time off work for such visits is not a problem?
Just think how much extra £$$$€€ surveyors, bankers, dentists etc. could make if they opened on a Sunday when their customers would not have to take valuable time off work during the week?? As a business analyst surely this is an ideal oppurtunity for them to increase profits?
But how could highly paid professionals work on a Sunday when they enjoy spending it as a special day to spend time with their family and friends?
Silly me!! Why of course, only poorly paid shop workers should work on a Sunday so you can have more choice!
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Town Dweller – nah, she’s more annoyed I didn’t get the right bread from the shop (don’t start me on that one)…
I don’t work standard Mon-Fri 9-5 so I have time in the week to do those sorts of things. The missus does. As far as I’m aware she hasn’t visited an advocate lately…or one she’s told me about but she tends to make doctors, dentist appointments during lunch hours, before work (they open about 8am) or after work (till around 6 I believe?). She hasn’t had to take any annual leave for those kind of things.
Hey if there was enough demand for it, I’m all for it. I just don’t think there is. Probably much the same way that you don’t think there’s enough demand for shops. Therefore let the laws be relaxed and the lot of them decide.
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“Where am I going to get extra cash from to spend in the shops on Sundays?”
The mere fact that you see fit to ask that question shows how little you know about retail economic trends in the 21st century. Your question, Nick, is based on the completely false premise that freedom of choice for traders – to open or not open on Sundays as they see fit/commercially viable – will somehow need a huge boost in consumer spending in order to sustain it.
That is not the way it will work. All the hard, factual evidence following the removal of the equally daft pub and petrol sales restrictions shows that it will lead to a rationalisation rather than a revolution in the way we shop on Sundays.
Into the bargain it will also remove, in one clean sweep, the lunatic situation whereby traders like Le Friquet are allowed to open but cannot offer their full range of goods to their customers.
Le Friquet is an excellent case in point because, using your flawed logic, you would say that if Le Friquet is allowed to sell all its products its customers will somehow need to find more cash in order to buy them. The reality of the situation is that it will provide better consumer choice, which is what this is all about and what you are so scared of.
As to whether you answer my question, I don’t really care now because we all know where you are coming from.
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Martino – please explain where I am coming from? I am offering my opinion that it is not ecomomically viable to liberalise Sunday Trading, something you disagree with. That does not equal a hidden agenda which you imply. The other side of my point is that if the traders shared your view, they would be pushing for a change in the law – they are not, which presumably indciates they consider that opening will cost them more than they will make i.e. not economically viable.
Now to the question of Le Friquet – I am inclined to agree that the law needs amending in that respect but that is not the same as agreeing to full Sunday trading.
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That would severely cut profits for the Church.
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@Nick Le P – But, of course, as you live in England you already have the choice that, in your opinion, should be denied to those who live in Guernsey.
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@ Sandy – you are right, I have a choice but I would be very happy to see the large store shut here on Sundays. As I have commented many times, Easter Sunday is a much more relaxed day here than any other Sunday. You can tell that simply from the atmosphere.
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Nick, I lived in the UK for most of my life, so I know full well that some shops do choose to close during the week instead of Sunday. It’s a bit pointless debating anything if you’re going to invent facts to suit your case.
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