Taxpayers face having to replace the bus fleet
Thursday 12th May 2011, 2:30PM BST.
ENVIRONMENT was unable to give assurances yesterday that taxpayers’ money will not be needed to replace Guernsey’s ailing bus fleet.
Problems with the vehicles worsened yesterday as Island Coachways confirmed that eight of its 14 routes suffered disruption.
Six vehicles have been taken off the roads for major work – including engine and gearbox replacements, repairing a leaking fuel tank and spending 40 hours repairing damaged bodywork.
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When you have buses that are far too large for the island’s roads (nicely illustrated by the photo – thanks GP!) it’s hardly surprising they needed 40 hours of bodywork repairs.
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Here we go again
Why should the Taxpayers have too? I drive a car Petrol has gone up alot, I pay for my Insurance on my car. I do think that Buses do run a great service but do we get a say in this matter??????
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Paul.
Completely agree. And lets face it, the little madam that sanctioned these monstrosities doesn’t care, as she has retired and gone to Spain.
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Couldn’t agree more Paul. I’m a big fan of the bus service but these green and yellow monsters are and always have been far too big for our island roads.
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If the GP is right and tax payers have to stump for a new fleet then someone at Environment needs their legs slapped.
I thought the fare increase and even more tax on road fuel was supposed to cover the bus subsidy?
Obviously not.
There are three explanations for this (either one or more may apply):
1 – the persons who did the sums regarding fuel tax and fare increase are idiots.
2 – as 1 and they forgot the capital element – duh!
3 – its yet another ploy to get paid parking back on the agenda.
Whatever – Environments environment is clearly Mars.
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Privatise the bus services, or make them economically self sustainable. In the UK, Nottingham City Council own Nottingham City Transport, but are only that – an owner. NCT purchases its own buses, sells them on, and runs the services ‘at arms length’. Guernsey should take a leaf.
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@ Paul
From my perspective in the afternoon, standing, crammed on a bus full of school kids, they are too small.
If you want to replace them with smaller buses, you’ll need even more of them ….. if Environment cant afford 40 new buses how the hell are they going to afford 60 or so smaller ones ( because you would need more to maintain capacity ). And according to Peter Sirett there isn’t anywhere to put them either …..
Perhaps the States shouldn’t have bought any buses in the first place and left it up to the bus company to provide them …..
What I don’t understand is how we got to where we are … surely someone should have seen this coming ? Then again we are dealing with a States department here aren’t we …..
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@Sarah: so you’re saying a complete privatisation of a public transport service which would, in turn, cause a huge spike in the bus fares essentially leading to less people using public transport services and instead congesting the roads with more cars?
I assume this is why this comes out of the pot of gold labelled “taxpayers”.
I could very well be wrong, however.
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So the bus fares go up and they still want more money for repairs!?!?! No, get smaller buses that will take less time to fix, fit on the roads properly and not make every car bail into a hedge whenever they drive past one. Then have more smaller buses running on the busier routes to stop over crowding. Problem solved.
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Things get old and need replacing. It’s just the way of life. Looking at the buses it seems they are all of similar age, so it stands to reason that they would all start to give up around the same time. My only gripe I suppose is that this should have been planned for. But again you can’t have a backup bus for every bus in service.
If some of our tax money needs to go to repairing or buying new buses then so what. Good I say. We pay so little tax here anyway that we should all just be happy with our situation.
As for ticket prices, I can travel to anywhere on the Island for £1. That to me sounds like a bargain! Saves a £10-£15 taxi for the same journey!
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Years of poor maintenance and lack of accountibility have caused this if this was the private sector then jobs would have gone for this a new MD post advertised in the press, but guess what there will be no outcome apart from more tax payer money thrown at the service and no member of our excuse for a states to question it and make those who have caused this mess responsible
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Just fit bull bars to each bus so less damage is caused (to the bus at least). Problem solved ;-)
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Tony
Surely it would simply be a case of doing what starscream suggests and adjusting the schedule to meet the demand? Either that or they could always keep a few of the larger buses for peak times and use smaller ones for the majority of routes.
I presume Island Coachways keep statistics of passenger numbers related to routes and times so it would be relatively straightforward to work out what is needed and when?
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Tony – the old smaller yellow and blue buses had a very similar seating capacity to what the current yellow and green monsters have – they just used the space more wisely.
The buses are too big for this island, and by the looks of it very unreliable as well, unless they weren’t serviced regularly. I don’t want a penny of tax money going on them.
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I really cannot stomach this….we are expected to keep paying up as taxpayers for every single balls-up the States cause! I am so sick of this! Let’s fix the jetty…oh dear…it costs three times as much as we said. Let’s build an incinerator…oh dear…cancel contract and pay millions! Let’s hire consultants for every bloody little thing….and pay them ridiculous amounts! Let’s buy some ships…let’s build a NEW wing at the hospital and then close some wards cause we do not have the staff!!!!!!!!!! What do you guys smoke at the States meeting….Time for the UBER customs to check this out…or are they the Police…or the Border Agency…or the we have too many people but not enough to do so let’s expand our remit people…. When is this going to end?
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New Buses! Hold on, how old are these? 5-6 years.
somethings wrong here people, either these vehicles are rubbish, or somethings a miss with the preventative maintenance schedule! Anyway, they are too big some kid will be killed by one of these buses one day. Far to much overhang from the front wheels to the front bodywork. No one gets my money or vote if we have to stomp up for more.
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Bus companies in the uk would be laughing there socks off 8 years old and want replacing your having a laugh, there seems to be a very poor maintenance issue here and what about keeping parts in stock, Before this current fleet was bought by the tax payer second hand buses were purchased from the uk with lots of miles and wear and tear but all services were reliable.
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Oh come off it! All the buses cannot be ailing just some of them. Why cannot ‘they’ get a good mechanic or have ‘they’ finally come to their senses and realised that the enormous size of the bus is too ridiculous for our little lanes? A bit late I think! I say get them repaired first and run them into the ground before you go spending any more of our money.
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are we truly getting our money’s worth. i find it very hard to believe.
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@Tony
I’d love to see the officials figures (can we have them please?) but from personal experience I would say that most of the buses on most of the routes at most times of the day are under-utilised.
There are, indeed, times when the buses are crammed to overflowing but this is where the beauty of a more flexible service with a fleet of smaller buses would come into its own. On these occasions a second bus could be brought in to cater for the extra demand.
I have lost count of the number of times when, even on my scooter, I have been forced onto the pavement or even into a hedge by the drivers of these public transport leviathans.
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Really a hundred grand for a bus that lasts 8 years. With they claim £2.6M pa maintainence.
The old busses were about 40 years old when they replaced them.
All the current fleet had new axles and fuel tanks last year and ICW say they need replacing again.
A full audit and public enquiry should be held for ICW. Something is very strange here.
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If my tax money goes on replacing these “young” busses then I am going to kick off big time!
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Totally agree with Sarah – we should never have had these buses in the first place!
I would imagine I am on one of the larger routes (Bridge-Town) and have never seen it more than 1/2 full in the mornings.
At the end of the day the issue of wear and tear will be one any replacement fleet will still have due to the close proximity of the bus stops, narrowness of roads and unforgiving pavements!
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Toto
I just do not think we should pay for the buses. you will find the only people who use buses are people who can not drive or go to town in the evening so they can have a drink. Do you drive? if so would you really give up driving your car each day so you could use the buses? I don’t think so.
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So the states have made a big mess up of the situation, we have busses too big and seem to be unable to make them last more than a handfull of years. Not often in these comments on this site do you see so high a percentage of people have the same opinion !
We definiately need smaller busses.
Please can someone in the know or has the time to google search for it put a link here to a site that advertises smaller busses for sale. Not as small as a mini bus as that’s too small but something inbetween a mini bus and our current busses. I’m a bit worried that category of size is not supported? If someone can find what is out there, put a link to it here and perhaps we can stick it under the deputies nose…
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I have mixed feelings about this.
On one hand I’m outraged that 9 year old buses which cost a small fortune IIRC need replacing already and the taxpayers may have to fork out again. (or is this the states “new toy” syndrome at work??)
However to counter that, if these monsters are sold at a decent cost to a UK bus company and replaced by a fleet of smaller and more suitable buses then I suppose some tax funds may be worth it just to get these things off our roads.
These buses are ridiculous, I live near a bus route darn saawth and I never see more than 2-3 passengers, and the drivers generally drive like Lewis Hamilton on an Australian B road, which is a recipe for great motoring!!
Actually, the more I think about it, these buses were blantently not built for the type of journeys they perform and the roads they drive on, so is it any surprise they need replacing so soon if they werent designed for this type of use?
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The maintenance records of the Company running the service and the competance of the mechanics and management should be investigated by an independant panel of a senior mechanic, an auditor and accountant to ensure we have a full answer as to whether we are getting a properly run and maintained fleet for the money we are paying this company.
The results should be published for the Tax Payers to see and then voted on as to whether this company should be allowed to continue.
Buses are designed to work on a stop start basis as that is the nature of their routine so either this is not a well designed bus and the manufacturers should be challenged and some of our money refunded for poor quality goods or a better design sought.
I think that whatever the reason for this debacle the people responsible will not be held to account and once again the tax payer will have to pay out for their incompetance.
If we do have to pay out more then a better design service and vehicles MUST be found that will give a more regular service with smaller buses at NO cost to the tax payer. This could be achieved by running six or seven individual routes, with the town as the central departure and various termini at the extremities of the island, each route being run by seperate companies and rotated between the companies on a yearly basis to give each company a chance to service the better paid routes. Each route would have four smaller buses running at quarter hour intervals ensuring a regular and frequent service.
Each company would have a contracted service agreement with The States (A licence to run) and regular checks on their accounts and maintenace records to ensure the standard of service.
This way the people who want to use the buses will pay for them. We`ll then see how crucial a bus service is and adjust the service to fit requirments.
It worked in days gone by when we had three or four different companies running regular services in LONG SERVING, WELL MAINTAINED buses.
LET`S GET BACK TO THE GOOD OLD DAYS.
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On my recent visit to the island I was quite amazed how often I came face to face with these green monsters everywhere, even on that day when loads of services were apparently cancelled!
I certainly wish for smaller vehicles again.
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While we are having a whinge about buses, the bus drivers could do with slowing down a bit too. I accept (albeit reluctantly) that upon meeting a green and yellow monster, I may need to mount the pavement, but they could at least give you a chance to slow down and get onto the pavement at walking speed (as you are supposed to). I don’t like the way they seem to be aiming at you almost barging you out of the way.
Aside from that, the last couple of days I’ve seen a few people taking blind corners, at speed, while driving on the pavement. It frightens the life out of me everytime I see it. A pedestrian is going to be killed soon.
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I suppose most have forgotten how lucky we were when we had decent buses, and polite drivers,(helpful)
We had Bluebirds (lovely comfortable bus)
Guernsey motors.
Greys
Guernsey Railway
Oh so many. we had Airport buses
Tour buses.
And all was fine a dandy.
now all we seem to get is a load of haggling over what and where.
Kick em out get Private enterprise (as was suggested)
and perhaps we’ll get a service we can truly call Bus service.
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Pay your taxes and support the bus service
Stop moaning and get on with life
Maybe its time for some posters to step out of the box and take a realistic view.
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the states subsidises the buses a couple of million pounds a year, now they want us to pay to mantain them, not a bad business to be in, keep all the profits.they are to big for our lanes and 25 mile an hour is the fastest they go rubbish, i was doing 30 mph and the bus was still ahead of me.
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Jason – here’s a link to the Optare website and the best option (IMO) for our roads.
This model comes in a slimline version too.
http://www.optare.com/op_solo.htm
Easy peasy States and Island Coachways!
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The more you look into this, the more it seems we are not being given the full facts ( or “truth” as it used to be known )
If you compare the summer timetable to the winter one, there seems to be an incredible increase in the services on the 7 7A routes. in the winter there were a 2 runs an hour on each route, and one of those only goes half way round the island.
Then in summer 3 runs an hour all going all the way round the island. Surely this must mean they need a lot more buses ?
Seems to me like a hige cock up and total lack of forward planning by the millionaires at the bus company – they’ve tried to offer more services than they actually have buses to run.
Which is why the “maintainance” issues have only just cropped up – surely if this were an ongoing problem we would have heard about it sooner ?
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Although the idea of getting rid of these buses at only 8/9 years old seems laughable, we don’t have the options available to larger operators. Anyone who goes to England will see old, knackered busses trundling around all over the place. They can do this because the bus companies are much larger and run them into the ground because they can then afford to purchase a new fleet without recouping money by selling off the old fleet. Because of its smaller size, IC can’t afford to do this, and so selling the buses on and replacing them when still in reasonable nick ensures that some of the money is recouped to help finance the new fleet.
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On the route 6 North service from Town to Bordeaux just before 1pm today (Friday the 13th). Only 10 of us passengers on this 34 seater at quite a busy time of day on quite a popular route. I made a point of looking at all the spare space inside. Two rows of seats either side of the aisle and with more leg room and height than any business class flight I’ve ever been on. Also I could have sworn there was enough room in the aisle to get one of those buffet trolleys you see on the trains. Manifestly too big for the island and too big for the job. I repeat I’m a fan of the bus service but the decision to purchase this oversized model for our Guernsey fleet has not done anyone any favours.
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I’d be interested to know exactly how much the bus service is costing the tax payer per year and how many passengers they carry (excluding the school buses).
The whole idea behind subsidising the buses was to encourage more people to use them, unfortunately for the vast majority of people they are not viable transport and never will be. This money would have been better off spent on improving the road network to ease congestion rather than forcing cars off the roads
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Yes, this is all VERY fishy.
These buses are off the peg more or less not custom built, so why is it going to take over 2 months to repair them? A quick call to the manufacturer and the parts needed should be in the island in a few days. They are not vintage busses, so there should be no problem with spares availability.
Secondly these buses are not that old, so was servicing skimped? They shouldn’t have major faults in such a short time if properly looked after.
We should be told the truth.
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Dan-Gsy
If that was the case Hannah Beacom would say so, not come up with a different excuse daily.
This is ass covering of the higest order.
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jsimpson has put it very well, one more pathetic decision to add to the catalogue of disasterous cock ups by the States. Perhaps they will now pay consultants £250k to whitewash it? We are subsidising Island Coachways to the tune of £2 Million a year – did they forget that buses need maintenance and eventual replacement? Since those in charge appear incompetant and unable to manage why not replace them instead of the buses. And if fleet management is alien to them why not lease the bus fleet?
How come we had buses in the 40′s, 50′s, 60′s and 70′s that lasted for ever? Is it me or can I remember busses in the 70′s that were about 30 years old? The ones where the driver opened the door with a long handle? Half of them seem to still be running fine, why not buy them back from museums if we are really incapable of buying modern buses which are fit for purpose?
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Time for the Press to put a few of their cub reporters out for the day taking bus rides at various times and various places,noting the number of paying passengers
Or arrange for the College boys / girls to get a bit of work experience doing the same thing
I must admit I last used a bus when the Island Games were here.They were full to capacity then but while I’m taking shelter in a driveway or mounting the pavement to get out of the way I very rarely see more than half a dozen in a passing bus these days
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So 25 busses were purchased brand new at the same time and another 8 or so were purchased second hand later on. That means that all of these buses are exactly the same age. If that’s not a recipe for commercial suicide then I don’t know what is.
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Island coachways why dont you purchase a dummys guide to engines.
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Is it because they are employing non locals not used to our local driving conditions and climate?
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Can anyone inform me if there is anywhere in the world that a local authority gives a private company the tools to run its business and then in a 3 year period also gives the sme company £7 million to operate those tools.
I run a small business and have to buy the tools to operate it, and when they need repair I have to pay for the repair, and still supply a service to my clients or they will go elsewhere, and them have the joy of paying all the local tax’s and licence fees.
It is time we stopped the funding of the buses and made them stand on there own feet or fall which ever.
I bet they use red fuel as well again fleecing us tax payers of funds.
Island Coachways had sufficent staff and vehicles to run tours form the cruise shipd at the weekend but could not supply a bus service which we pay them to do.
Come on they should be leasing the buses and we should be making money out of them not the other way around, time this Island woke up and brushed the sleep from it eyes, and started to bang a few drum and tell those who we elected to sort the mess out that they have made for us all.
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@Gilthead
any idea what the costs are? I like the look of these slimline buses!
I use the buses a lot as it saves hassle when you want to go out for a drink or two, but perhaps we need a rethink on how a bus operates?
Maybe it needs to be a bit more like a taxi that you share with other people? So you could book a place and then the bus company would work out a route that picked those people up and there would be a live tracker so that if you needed to you could still flag it down enroute?
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@andy – why don’t you purchase a dummy’s guide to punctuation :@)
@Guern
I couldn’t agree more with most of your comments – making the taxpayer shell out for a fleet of buses, and therefore committing the taxpayer to replace them, seems insane. ( mind you most states decisions seem insane in hindsight – and often you don’t even need the benefit of hindsight … )
But as for Coachways dropping it’s coach work to prop up the bus service – why should it ? The States insists that they use the equipment provided by the States to run a service – if the States equipment isn’t up to the task I say the blame lies with the States ….
Imagine you run a cleaning company – some jobs you send in cleaners with equipment, others you just send in the staff to use equipment supplied by the client.
If the clients own equipment fails, would you tell them , “sorry, your hoover is broken, I can’t hoover the offices today ? ”
Or would you tell your other clients ” sorry, can’t do your work today, I’m having to use my equipment somewhere else .. ”
I think the former ….
And I still don’t believe that we’re being told the truth as to what’s going on ….
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On Sunday’s phone in Leon Gallienne was bemoaning the fact that the whole problem of funding the buses has been caused by not implementing paid parking
Can someone ask a question at the next States meeting please …
How much income has been derived from the extra duty placed on fuel (the alternative to paid parking)… and where is that extra income now?
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Ray – see my post 12 May in which I suggested that this was a wheeze to get paid parking back on the agenda…
Maz – no idea! I’m sure if Island Coachways or the States agree to buy twenty they’ll manage to do a deal to pay at least 20% over the normal retail price. Including VAT.
It doesn’t take a genius to work out these buses are better then the monsters we have now. Narrower, shorter and most importantly the front wheels are not 72 feet from the front.
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Tony
Don’t slag off someone else’s punctuation when you can’t do it yourself!
1. “It’s coach work”
It’s = it is
Its = belongs to it, which is what you should have used, no apostrophe.
2. “If the clients own equipment fails”
client’s – apostrophe needed to denote ownership of equipment.
:@)
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Ray. Good point. I bet they have made a fortune with all the tax they’ve put on petrol. Where has it gone indeed?
Some of its probably funding Lyndon Trotts jollys abroad.
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Punctuation? whats that got to do with the price of gas?
Anyway, commenting on the topic at hand:
Suggest the States sack the current management of the bus co (not to mention the head mechanic) and install a new management team… or the States could debate, gesticulate and do nothing….
I hope for the former, I expect the latter :(
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@Gilthead – “I suggested that this was a wheeze to get paid parking back on the agenda…”
Please don’t say that! Let’s have just one year when this old chestnut doesn’t get dragged up again.
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Gilthead
There is little difference, in width, with the buses you have highlighted over the current ones in service.
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Buses – if these have to be replaced then for goodness sake get a size suitable for the narrow roads. Try meeting one of these monsters in the St Martins lane – its impossible even for a pedestrian to pass in some places. Around 4.30pm each day there are two buses on the route that go around Icart within 5 minutes of each other, normally there are perhaps 2 people on the first one and none on the second. This cannot be profitable. In the 50s and 60s the buses we had were ancient and used to struggle up the hills but they kept going and certainly very rarely broke down. As a taxpayer I certainly do not want to pay for them and I certainly dont want to vote for the majority of the States members that we currently have next time round – our Island has never been in such a mess.
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I’ve been on buses in Africa that are death traps, driven around corners on the wrong side of the road by maniacs…but they have a sticker in the back, ‘In God we trust’. In Guernsey, it is the cyclists, pedestrians and car drivers who are left hoping for divine intervention to save them when our ridiculously proportioned buses bear down on them. Let’s get them replaced with more sensible alternatives before they cause a serious accident.
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Did Leon Gallienne mention he was on the then Island Traffic Comittee which ordered these buses because they where “only 4 inches longer” than the old ones. Oh they’re only four inches wider, we’ll spend 4 million quid on them.
And when us drivers complained that because of the width of them we were forced to mount the pavements. What did he do?, he who was one of those responsible for putting them on the roads. He self rightously preached that monting the pavement was illegal and we drivers shouldn’t be doing it
Its the Leon Gallienne’s of the States which are part of the problem.
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Having spent all my career in a mainland local authority managing bus contracts and having family on the island, I think Guernsey has actually got a lot of things right – integrating its school transport into the network, having a fully accessible standard fleet, recognising that it cant be a totally car dominated island etc. But..
The decision on the current buses was probably the best around at the time but nobody on the mainland would probably buy a whole fleet at the same time without thinking of having to deal with the maintenance around half economic life (now) or how to replace them in 15 years (Guernsey’s buses collapsed 30 years ago when all the buses got very old together). It sounds like a political statement being made without bothering with the long term consequences. Yes there are reliable smaller narrower buses around now but you’d have to look at the school routes to see if that option worked – having twice as many 25 seaters to replace 34 seaters wouldnt be sensible. Optare’s would probably not have been a good idea in 2002. Selling the buses back to the mainland now isnt sensible either – we are going through budget cuts at national and local level and changes in fuel costs is making operators wary of buying buses.
The short term fixes are probably to be less gung ho on some of the frequencies at some times – I couldnt believe that I could get to my hotel in Vazon every 10 minutes by choosing which way round the coast to go! You change the scheduling of drivers so that buses are in the garage being looked at rather than sitting at the terminus with the driver having a break. Talk to Dennis who made the buses because to me they seem to be designed for mainland speed restrictions of 30 or 40 and keep juddering if asked to stay at 35. And you find a longer term strategy to avoid the whole thing collapsing about 2015-2107 when the current buses are uneconomic. Doesnt the contract with the operator have sanctions or is it a case of the States bought the buses not the operator?
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Paul – true. But as the old saying goes an inch or two makes a big difference.
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Oh what a tangled web we weave,new motto for the people of guernsey.
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Keith
Yes I think the buses were chosen and purchased by the States.I also think that their speed is limited to 25MPH.Nice to know that they are only halfway through their expected life
pbfalla
Looking forward to ‘Oh what a tangled web we weave’ for the next couple of months then! Still, saves you having to engage brain
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I really really really really really wish there was a better way to express sarcasm when written down ….
Given that I haven’t heard of any dropped services mfor days now can we assume the problem ( whatever it really was – mechanical failures / shortage of drivers / Mars bars in the fuel tanks / incompetence at the bus company / incompetence in the States -depending on which rumours/facts/lies you beleive ) is now solved ? Are they introducing a new timetable ( which was promised for this week by Mr Sirrett ) or not ?
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Some people have short memories.
It was said the other day that without pay parking we cannot afford new buses but surely there was an icrease in fuel tax to compenstae for the no pay parking decision.
If ever pay parking is introduced I am sure that we will not see a decrease in fuel tax to compensate!
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Anybody else thinking this may be a con by both the States and ICW? Maybe they’re not making money on the buses so it’s cheaper for them to say they’re undergoing repairs and will foot the cost with paid parking, this way they’re making a lot of money to fill their black hole.
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@ Mr G
The buses definitely don’t make any money – which is why the taxpayer throws 2 million quid a year at them . Although I’m sure you could save a fortune if you reduced the number of services – especially the one’s with nobody ever uses ….
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Why is taxpayers’ money supporting a private company anyway? Surely Coachways should be paying a fee to use the buses we all bought.
And well said Poolepirate, but it wouldn’t happen, would it? More sneaky taxation
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Paid parking to subsidise the bus service is like atheists having to contribute to church repairs.
Just another tax. Much easier than the States having to make some savings like fewer deputies,lower contributions from the public to pay for their gold plated pensions.
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If the bus service can’t be run more efficiently than this I think we should consider doing away with most routes. Keep the buses for one or both ’round the island’ routes and run shuttle services to Park & Ride. Increase the fares to levels which need no further subsidy. Keep the current buses, with limited use they should last for years and spare ones could be used for charters, hire etc. If the savings produced filter back to taxpayers I will use mine to get a few taxis a year to replace the journeys I currently do by bus. This solution will not please everybody but we can’t keep paying through the nose for a substandard and badly managed bus service.
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@ Sara
the taxpayer is supporting them because, apparently, it costs 2million a year more to run empty buses from 6 in the morning till 10 at night than they take in fares ……. and presumably would cost even more if they had to finance their own fleet of vehicles….
…..although apparently we had to pay TribalHelm a lot of money to tell us that, and it seems to have been ignored anyway !!!
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11.20am today,waiting at traffic lights at Admiral Park/sea front
One bus passed from South to North … empty
Another turned in to Admiral park from the North … again empty
What a waste of my tax bucks!
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Why get smaller buses? They fit OK on the roads as they are, and we kind of need bigger buses for afternoon school runs. Plus the idea that ‘more smaller buses on busy routes’ seems good, but the buses aren’t going to drive themselves now are they?! If maybe instead of complaining on here, why don’t any of you go and talk to the bus company? And if you haven’t got a job, become a bus driver! They need more, you can clearly see that, from the fact they are late frequently. Also, just taking the buses off the roads altogether is useless… don’t you care for the environment?! Plus I can’t drive, I’m not old enough, so I rely on the buses to take me places, slightly late or not! I think, personally, they should have a mixed fleet, maybe half of them the current size for peak times, and a few smaller ones (not too small though) for off-peak times. They need support though from the public to keep going and to get these issues sorted. Unfortunatelly the bus company isn’t ‘rich’ enough to support it-self and the attitude some people have is discraceful, especially those with money to spare…
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Natso – as you appear to be of school age may I suggest an economics course.
Then you’ll see why some of us are having a moan!
Alternatively read Ray’s and Tony’s post above yours.
However your idea of a mixed fleet is excellent.
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Natso
When you are old enough to drive and one of these things forces you onto the pavement or you have to hit the brakes rather than a wall you will then be able to make a better informed opinion. But you are right about them fitting ok on the roads, its just that they leave very little room for anything else to fit on them too.
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Natso – are Coachways paying you by the word, or just per post ?
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Natso.
We already pay ICW £2.6M pa to drive empty buses around the island. If they employ more drivers to drive more empty buses around the island, they will want even more.
If the only time busses are full is for the school run, why not charge parents for the busses, they have produced the passengers for the free service.
I know plenty of local businesses that could do with support from the public should they all apply for subsidies?
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Natso, you are entitled to an opinion but you need to think where the money is coming from. This situation is absurd. We pay for the buses, we then give them to a private company and then we give that company £2m a year when they run the company badly. It cannot continue indefinitely. We all want everything so long as its ‘free’. Maybe once you are paying for this fiasco through your taxes and also have your own transport you might hold a different view.
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In 2009, it was stated that there were 1.5m passengers (actually journeys).
So assuming that the large majority will travel to get somewhere and back, lets say 750k passenger return journeys.
Average users = 750/365 = 2,055 users per day, so lets say maximum of 4,110 users.
Cost of 33 buses, £8m over 8yrs £1m per year plus £2.6m subsidy, so £3.6m per year divided by 4,110 users = £876 per user a year.
Does anyone know whether the 2009 passenger count of 1.5m excluded the school buses?
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Could someone from ICW or environment please explain why a free bus service for schools is given priority over providing an essential service for paying passengers?
Steve is right – charge parents for school bus use
Natso’s mixed fleet idea is good. Very good indeed.
Also a timetable restructure at peak times is needed. There are too many buses all at the same time, they are not evenly spaced out enough to encourage more commuter use. Also who wants to leave work and then wait 25 – 30 mins for a bus when they could be home in that time by car?
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Well we had better go back to ways we had in the occupation.
Some were only 1HP, at times 2Hp. mostly open so we could see our lovely Island.
The fuel was reasonable a handful or two of Hay, and off we go.
At steep hills all dismounted and the males aboard put a shoulder to the thing to help the poor old Horse.
Now then those were the days, and what with all the other irritable things yet people just got on with it.
The trouble is as the one time PM said in England “You’ve never had it so good*
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I have read my fair share of ignorant posts on these forums over the years but this is ridiculous. Guerns love something to get irate about don’t they?
People claiming they won’t stand for their tax money being used for such services? Stupid, of course you will, complaining on a computer forum is the closest you will come to doing anything about it.
I think Island Coachways has done a great job of providing bus services, I use them every day, I also drive and have never had a problem with the size of the buses. It is an oversimplification to say that only people who want to go drinking or those who can’t drive use the buses. It’s a community service used by people of all backgrounds which is good for the environment and something that states should be supporting as part of its bid to get people to think more about their environmental impact.
I think some people have been quite patronising to natso, it’s pretty rude to suggest that someone needs extra schooling just because they like the bus service, let’s hope natso isnt put off trying to explain his/her opinion because of the response!
The maintenance was timed unfortunately, admittedly, but the services that were affected were chosen specifically to be the ones that have very few people on – as you yourselves have discussed – so I don’t really see what your problem is! You’re just using this story as a vehicle to discuss the buses in general.
I for one would much rather have these than the old worn out ones, you lot seem to be looking back with rose tinted glasses.
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Kyle, if you’re so happy with the bus service would you be prepared to pay realistic fares so it ceases to be such a huge burdon on taxpayers?
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I’d be prepared to pay realistic fares for a realistic service
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Oh come of it pbfalla.
You are foolish enough as it is without writing as such.. you and your motto’s
Guernsey people have always reckoned that a Bird in the hand id better the 2 in the bush.
Watch the pennies, the £s take care of themselves.
So moan or no moan, of which Guernsey peopøle have every right .
We struggled for years, then Fairy God Mother came to town.
After settling in we found out she was in disguise, she was in fact the wicked witch of the woods—
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Times change:
Why should people subsidise the bus service and also pay for what they in fact own?
No no! Let it go private, with a proviso, that reasonable charges be made to travel.
If we had a decent Governing body they would have long ago taken the bull by the horns and made it into Milk cow.
The on the subject of paid parking: how ridiculous in the day and age, when every country in world has paid parking and not little old Guernsey?
Paid parking should be a reasonable charge, every street in The Business districts of Guernsey should have paid Parking.
Some place could have a permanent place at a monthly rental.
Come on get real. Kick out the dead wood next year, prune the remainder and get growing again.
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