‘It is my job to ensure the island is adequately protected’
Wednesday 18th May 2011, 2:29PM BST.
Armed police in training at L’Ancresse with their new armoured cars. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1137018)
ARMED response vehicles are vital if Guernsey Police firearms officers are to deal effectively with dangerous situations, according to the chief officer.
Two armed response vehicles have recently arrived in the island and officers are training with them this week. In addition, an armoured Land Rover will arrive shortly.
Police Chief Patrick Rice said a recent review of the police’s equipment and a comparison with forces in the UK and other Crown Dependencies showed their ability to respond to an armed incident was inadequate.
‘We did not have the capability and the capacity to deal effectively with firearms incidents in a way which conforms with best practice.’
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Money well spent I say as I regularly dodge gun fights, armed robberies etc on a daily basis!!
By the time these vehicles are probably needed they will no doubt be outdated and they’ll have to buy some more!!
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When will the police lion tamer arrive? The Polices capacity to deal with escaped circus Lions is woefully inadequate.
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Are the Gsy police still without guns on patrol?! What happens in a case of sudden armed robbery? Do the officers have to rush up to the police station to fetch their guns first?
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Those big 4×4 armed response vehicles won’t be particularly quick to respond to an incident when they get stuck in the lanes.
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I am with elRock84 on this one.
Never mind the expense, our police force simply does not have the resources or equipment to deal effectively with the escaped circus lion menace in a way which conforms with best practice.
I have also recently spotted a row of tents in the Fauquets Valley which I am fairly sure is an Al Quaida training camp. Surely we should be investing in a squadron of armed attack helicopters now, before it is too late.
Money well spent in my opinion.
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slep.
One of the nice things about this island is that its not necessary for police to wander about with guns. Personally I wouldn’t want that to change especially as sudden armed robbery is so rare. And as has been proven in the past, when it does happen they can’t go very far (plus the weapon isn’t actually used – other than to threaten).
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Policemen love guns it harks back to Wyatt Earp.
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Toys for the boys and nothing else. No one can question it as the Police Chief raises the ‘security’ bogeyman again. Scaring the public is so very predictable Mr Rice.
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I did enjoy the GPs usual proof read free aproach to publication. The police train with their 2 new armoured vehicles, neither of which is armoured.
The armoured one is comming next week aparantly.
These 2 seem to have little more than glofified cup holders and centre consols.
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Let us not be too complacent or flippant; I think this guy knows and understands exactly what he doing. We, the general Joe Publics may not be fully aware of why this decision had been taken, I very much doubt that the whole of it is down to insufficient good practise. Guernsey seems to be catching up on the realities of dangerous practise that abounds elsewhere, which could well impact here.
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Whats next ?
Tanks at the airport,special forces at all beaches.
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Typical of a foreign chief!
your not in the uk now or for that matter the u.s.
Everyone takes precautions on a daily basis but can anyone account for every eventuality? I think not!
This is a lame excuse to waste tax payers money and play cops and robbers, most people got that out of their system in the infants at primary school.
They were all outside vazon cafe today as i drove past, parading their new toys just as the bikers do on a sunday!
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Well well!
just fancy that
they have only just read about David and Goliath.
however apart fronm that they are just71years too late.
However with those two ships (which incidentally are in reality warships made to look like ordinary traders.
I suppose they will soon start their recruiting drive, they’ve got the armour things and the ships: and the airport is going to be organized soon, and all hand gliders MUST be registered. well done Guernsey States.
Now what else can they get up to.
The world must be laughing at all these circus acts.
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Will they be working on a Sunday???!!!
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Slep: Where are these hypothetical armed robbers going to go exactly?
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Presumably ‘best practice’ dictates armoured cars for Alderney and Herm too, armoured tractors, obviously, for Sark. When will this ‘me too’ madness end? Have the States not got the power to curb the Police and its ego trips?
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elRock84
What sort of question is that,
don’t you follow the items…
The armoured vehicles are to protect those robbers already ensconced and need protection from the wrath of the people
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This ‘best practice’ thing is getting out of hand now. Best Practice dictates the Police need tanks to defend us against full scale armed oprising. Best Practice dicates that the airport runway needs to cater for Space Shuttles. What next, ray guns in case of alien invasion?
How about the States remembering that we are a small island with limited needs and no money to waste on grandiose ‘my one is bigger than your one’ schemes? The States is supposed to be providing for the island’s needs not stroking their own egos as they chuck money at problems we don’t have. And if the Police budget allows for excesses like this, that budget is too damn big at public expense.
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A complete waste of money and time. Next we’ll be buying battle ships to shoot the french.
Considering the fact we called the police as our house and pets were being shot by an air rifle and all they did is give us a leaflet on how to not be robbed I think maybe they should have started by looking at how they deal with normal day to day crime before looking at something that happens once in a blue moon.
Someone needs to let Rice know he’s not in London anymore and we don’t tend to go around shooting people for 50p.
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What a waste of money, not only do 4x4s use a lot of fuel they’re not suitable for this island. With the price of fuel on the way up why aren’t they driving around in smart cars? There’s usually only one police officer in the damn thing anyway.
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MrG, Smarts wouldn`t be allowed cos they`re “incongruous with the surrounding traffic”.
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I was out the other day and saw 4 officers doing speed checks and between them they had 2 cars and a bike, I’m guessing the forth officer was on foot. On the bright side now they can shoot to kill anyone doing 27mph in a 25mph zone, saves money rather than taking them to court…
Maybe Guernsey should have a civil war, and then the Guernsey Police have a true justification for their new shiny toys.
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I’m guessing the police will be busting a gut to contrive some sort of ‘situation’ now so they can say “see, we DID need £500,000 worth of armoured cars”. Remember what happened to that guy in London carrying a sawn-off chair leg? Not long now before some old granny armed with a stick of rhubarb gets the double tap. And if you think I’m OTT, the police started it!
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I agree money well spent. Just because it isnt required on a day to day basis doesnt mean there is no place for ARV’s.
Its like car insurance; some poeple never have accidents and have never made a claim throughout their driving history. However, should an accident occur then they are covered.
In this day and age its not uncommon to hear of terrorist attacks and we in guernsey are just as suseptible to an attack as any other jurisdiction, if and heaven forbid anything did happen on our peaceful island then i would expect our police to have at least half a chance of protecting themselves and the community.
Terrorism aside there has in the past been domestic incidents involving guns and people getting killed, if it has happened before then no doubt it will happen again sometime in the future.
The arv’s also show a bit of “dont mess with us attitude…”– and I like that….
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If ‘Rambo’ Rice’s surname was an acronym it would stand for
Really
Is
Completely
Excessive
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Bumburp, you are an idiot. They have to get out of the car to shoot Bin Laden, can’t shoot from inside it.
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Hey Patrick! Guess what? It’s MY job to point out that this is a costly and over the top reaction to…….
Errr actually I’m not sure, well to what exactly?
“a recent review of the police’s equipment and a comparison with forces in the UK….”
Surely the review should have found that there is NO comparison with us and what goes on in a UK city. Like Beanjar says, bearing in mind some of the fatal over reactions on record from London police officers these vehicles fill me with dread not confidence.
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It’s the EU, stupid!
They are going to send us a few terrorists, and once the menace has acted, will infer how our security will be far better if we surrender to the ever encroaching and widening EU cloche.
The rozzers are just preparing for the first wave.
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Bumburp
The scare tactics have really gotten to you eh?
Lucky for us we can sleep tight in our beds at nigh knowing we have all this security around us from so many terrorists.
Its a shame the innocent people in some third world countries Iraq and Afganastan spring to mind aren`t afforded the same luxuries and protection from the likes of Bush and Blair?.
The truth is our terrorism is far worse.
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Bumburp
If what you say is true, then please let us know what your thoughts are on the prospect of escaped lions??
How will we cope in that event, afterall surely a hiring a lion tamer is also just like car insurance, you may never need one, but you’ll be pretty glad you did when the next bezerk lion takes to Vazon on a Saturday afternoon.
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Short memories here. Less than a year since Derek Bird killed twelve and injured eleven in Cumbria including my old schoolfriend. And yes, they too said it could never happen in their sleepy little part of the world.
The world is changing. We change with it.
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The ARV’s are not armoured. Just like over here most are standard unmarked 5 Series with privacy glass back windows! The firearms are locked in a safe in the boot. which the officers can only open once given the relevant authorisation.
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First Time, sorry to hear your friend was murdered by Derek Bird. I can see that he would have been safer in an armoured car, but would the police sitting in one have saved his life?
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A few years ago at Vazon a man shot his wife and then shot his himself dead (I apologise to any family members if they are offended by me bringing this up). So it does happen in the small Island of Guernsey.
ARVs are also deployed at incidents like the one that happened in Brockley, London a few days ago. From speaking to local cops I know over here they do get called to people at domestics etc. with big knives!!
There are 30 police officers at the incident in London below. I am pretty sure the local police could not send 30 to something like this, even if they wanted to.
So the Guernsey ARV with four bods on board will be sent out and I would imagine they would use a Taser to deal with an incident with a knife. It is not just gun incidents they will deal with.
Check out the link below, this could easily happen here. Would you like to deal with it alone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GPi4PxSYQ
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The choice of vehicles is fine. If you get a normal car, stick 4 big police officers in, all wearing kevlar boy armour with weapons, plus a very large steel box in the boot with lockable slide out drawers carrying a multiude of weapons (lethal weapons such as sniper rifles, and less lethal such as tasar, etc), ballistic shields, first aid kit and various other bits and bobs, and then try driving it around the island, I expect you would be amazed at how bad it handles!
That is the main reason why ARV’s are usually 4×4 vehicles or big estate vehicles. 4×4′s are also used for Special Escorts (such as escorting VIP’s) as they can withstand driving through a road blockade etc.
I am sure that if someone suddenly started shooting people around a school in Guernsey, and the Police took around an hour to respond, then some people on these forums would be spitting feathers!
The Police Chief’s job is to consider the “what if” scenarios, and how the force would respond to them. The equipment the Guernsey Force have got is no real different to what Jersey and the Isle of Man already have…. The 3 forces do work closely together on things like this as it’s ideal to see what other similar sized forces do! All 3 islands don’t have the luxuary of being able to ask their neighbouring forces for immediate assistance. Instead it requires a boat or plane ride!
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Andrew.
They may atill take an hour to respond if they get stuck in the lanes in those big 4x4s.
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Did anyone think to ask if they could Vehicle Share with The Old Military Vehicle group,a Panza down The Plaza would stop em kicking off.
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Mr G
- no need to start calling people [me that is] names.. Oh and Bin Laden is dead my friend, don’t you keep up with the news?
Bcb
- what on earth have other countries got to do with our local police forces? If that’s all you have to say why not keep stum for a change…
Mr Lloyd
- This is a serious subject, lions have nothing to do with it. There is however a global threat from terrorism and locally people with weapons that have in the past and will in the future loose the plot. If you want to see lions go to the zoo.
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Is he Lenny Harper in disguise?
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Andrew, you can get spacious cheap cars, why do they have to be BMW? It’s a waste of tax payers money, buy some cheap Citroens.
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There’s a sort of madness creeping into this thread….
Lots of completely sane comments about the obviously inappropriate use of public funds followed by a few examples where having an ARV would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever. The appallingly thin justification that ‘they’ve got it so we should have it’ has also made an appearance, an argument invariably used where there is no actual rationale available.
Finally, I’d like to point out that the police chief’s job is not to think of every possible situation and then go on a money-no-object spending spree, but to use the budget available in a way that offers the tax payers the greatest value for money. If anyone has the gall to suggest these redundant monstrosities represent value for money then they should seek medical attention from the badly under-funded mental health facilities…
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well wat a load of rubbish
what the these 4×4 going to do?turn up to a under age drinking party down delancy park and try scare everyone with guns? well thats probly wat they would do as they have nothing to but cause problems!
anyway these veicles arnt even armoured!
might aswell buy 2 new police helicopters incase terroist try blow up cobo chip shop. but u never know it may happen as these things happen all the time in guernsey!
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Madchester Cop; Could you please explain to me how the incident at Vazon could have been helped by an ARV? Maybe I’m simple but I’m just not seeing it. In fact, I’m having trouble thinking of any shooting incidents where it would help. Shooting incidents are spontaneous in most cases in the UK, especially so in Guernsey where armed robbery is effectively pointless.
Terrorism is not, and will never be (for the foreseeable future) a threat to Guernsey. Firstly, there’s no way you could operate any kind of operation in Guernsey without local people poking their nose in. Try putting up a new shed in your Garden, let alone planning Forest Gate 2.0. Secondly, terrorist organisations and supporters route too much money and manage too many assets through offshore tax havens. Thirdly, we’re not the UK; we don’t have an army, we don’t have a say in UK politics, or world politics for that matter.
So why does Guernsey have two ARVs and an armoured car on it’s way? It’s security theatre; just like the airport security restrictions following 2001 and subsequent ‘threats’. It’s there to make the police seem macho in the eyes of the public and give the impression that ‘something is being done’, regardless of whether it is right or appropriate to the threat.
My turn to post a video:
http://www.ted.com/talks/bruce_schneier.html
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Well now:
I think we’ve all had our little say and thoughts about many things; and as the walrus said- it’s time to think about other things.
Those other things are to tell the States and all their departments to stop slumbering and get about doing the things you promised and were elected to do.
If you don’t you don’t stand the chance of a dog in cat colony.
ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
So let’s have some. get some sense into many of you knuckle heads and try to be adult about our Island.
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Bumburp
You are right, what has our police force got to do with other countries? so why haven`t you commented on the posts that keep compareing us to what happened in the UK or what vehicles they have? is that not another country? I just went a bit further.
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The problem with tooling the police up like this is the criminals then think that they have to have guns as well.
The typical Guernsey robbery has been, at worst, someone weilding a knife. Still potentially very dangerous but not as bad as if they were waving a pistol around.
Fighting fire with fire just leads to bigger flames.
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Excellent post Ed, couldn’t have put it better myself. In essence the level and type of crime in Guernsey calls for PC Dixon rather than Judge Dredd style policing. And I still can’t understand why this ‘best practice’ nonsense dictates that if Guernsey has to have these things why not Alderney too? Can somebody quote from the ‘best practice bible’ to show why these expensive gas guzzlers have been foisted onto us?
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They’re too late ordering all this armageddon stuff. Judgement day is tomorrow, May 21, in case you hadn’t heard, and we’re all doomed. At least all us non believers are…
http://judgementday2011.com/
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Well let’s have a little think about all this.
Some time back the police wanted a place where they could play cowboys and Injuns, so they got permission from the other lot of administrators to have a firing rang at L’ancresse.
Now they wanted armour, not suits of armour, but motorised armour.
They now have got that—
Now stop-think-didn’t Grandma say all things come in threes..
I tell you I’m so excited to see what comes next I’m sorry but I .. yes in my trousers at that… sorry
but it’s so exciting..
Today I hear on the grape-vine that the chief is going to have a big silver star. and all the rest a smaller one.. that way they’ll all be ‘Starlets’
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Martino – don’t you believe Hollywood? Armageddon is next year!
This Harold Camping chap predicting that Jesus will return tomorrow clearly hasn’t read Matthew 24:36 – either that or he is also claiming to be God the Father. Either way I wouldn’t cancel your BBQ for Sunday just yet….
PS Not that I’m discouraging you from repenting and believing the good news, of course. :-)
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Fast response helicopter.
Or with the downsizing of the millitary there are a couple of Apache gunships on ebay.
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Thank goodness for that Paul. There I was trying to tie up all the loose ends of my earthly life but it seems I can relax now! :-)
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elRock84: The tragic Vazon incident I am told concerned a man who was a licensed firearms holder who drove his wife to a headland and shot her and then himself.
The outcome could have esaily been very different if she had run away, a passer by protected her and then a hostage type situtaion developed. I have been told that an infamous Guernsey Beat Bobby, Noel Trotter was also shot at Beaucamps School.
As an ex-cop from Manchester during the Hacienda days all I can say is that when you’re on your own and confronted with a violent situtaion you are very pleased to see back-up arrive. Arm chair warriors like yourself or experts who play Halo 3 whatever will never understand what true fear is or really care to find out.
As is shown in the video clip I posted 30 Met coppers turned up to deal with a nutter wealding a machete. I don’t think Guernsey could muster 13, let alone 30 cops in 15 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5GPi4PxSYQ
All I am saying is that knife incidents are more common that what you think and I would not like to see a Guernsey bobby deal with a violent situation alone. If the intention of Pat Rice is to have an ARV manned or womaned 24 hours a day I can see nothing wrong in that.
Also have you not thought that a local bank could be a terrorist target with all the murky arms traders that have nests here or Government ministers from far away places that siphon off their hard earned corruption money to keep somewhere safe in case they have to make a sudden bolt for it? Could they be a target?
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Madchester Cop.
All other points aside, I do think it ridiculous that it took 30 officers to deal with one man holding a knife/machete. If they had firearms I don’t really see why they’d need more than 2 (ok lets say 4 to be generous then they could surround him if they decided not to use their firearms). I know I’m not experienced in these situations but a gun versus a knife = no contest. They wouldn’t need to get within 20 feet of him.
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Just like to add, it would of course be different if they’d been called out not knowing what the situation was, just that they were facing an armed assailant.
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Madchester Cop
Arnald will love you.
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Madchester Cop, it seems your Manchester policing experiences have made you rather paranoid. Despite times changing a bit, there is and never will be any valid comparison between the sleepy isle of Guernsey and what I believe was dubbed ‘the gun crime capital of Europe’. As for terrorism, is somebody seriously expecting attacks on police cars by bomb, rocket or machine gun anytime soon? If so, they need sedation not armoured cars.
The very few gun related crimes the island has had would not have benefitted from having the police turn up in an armoured car. For a start, they were all over before the police arrived. But lets say the police did manage to turn up when somebody is threatening somebody with a gun, then what? Do they wind down the window an inch shouting “its all over matey, put the gun down!”, then wind it up again quick? I suspect that they would actually have to get out of the vehicle, obviously wearing their body armour to do their job. Net benefit of spending this half million quid – absolutely zero. Why not send the damn things to Afghanistan where they might have some use – at least we would save on the petrol.
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Dirty Harry only needed a Magnum.
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Roy Gueno”!
That’s all I need as well…
A Magnum- if it’s of Champøagne…
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Does Madchester Cop really believe that local banks keep billions of pounds in cash? The whole object of “murky arms traders” or “Government ministers from far away places” depositing money in the local banks is to have it nicely laundered and converted into beautiful clean useable bank balances. You can’t usually steal a multi-million bank balance by entering the banking hall with a gun.
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There are so many small minded people on this thread it is a wonder to me they get through life.
This is risk management, and it has to be done. Some people in Guernsey do have guns, knives, cross-bows and I damn well want the police to be able to deal with incidents involving these weapons by placing themselves in between me and the point of danger. To be able to do that, they need the correct equipment.
The irony is, if the police weren’t able to provide a response to an armed robbery, a hostage situation or a person who has been seen with a gun in public all the same people on here moaning and whining that the police are wasting money would be the same lot moaning and whining that they had not prepared well enough to protect us! Grow up you lot.
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Nice rant, Truth Man. How exactly will the armoured land rover deal with any of these potential ‘situations’ which are keeping you awake at night?
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Ladies and Gentlemen ,welcome to the New World Order.
T-Shirts on sale in the car park, thank you. ;)
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Truth Man The Islands are as good as the people on it, unfortunately since they let anyone in over here at the moment, I’m hardly surprised they have these vehicles. That being said, I think the money would have been netter off spent on a spy satellite or indeed a couple of apachie gunships from E bay.
With the rumours circulating now that the La Mare bomb scare was linked to the article about Justification of the Armed Response Vehicles use. I don’t believe in coincidence. Apparently there is some mobile phone footage captured by a teacher at the school of something surfacing, im yet to see it. Interesting times in Guernsey , beats EastEnders I guess.
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Mr Lloyd:
What is your obsession with lions? Is there even one lion in Guernsey? No. Are there nutters in Guernsey? Yes. Are there guns in Guernsey? Yes. Are there knives in Guernsey? Yes. Do we expect the police to be able to protect us from guns and knives? Yes. Do we understand their tactics and how an ARV would help them to better the chances of protecting us? No. Do lots of people just like moaning about things, even though they have no knowledge of the subject in hand? Definitely.
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I`m really gald we have such equipment readily available now especially in cases like this one.
At least our backs are covered.
21 May 2011 Last updated at 23:04
Hampshire ‘tiger sighting’ causes major alert. A stuffed toy animal led to a large-scale police operation in Hampshire and stopped play at the Rose Bowl cricket ground.
The alarm was first raised by a concerned member of the public who believed there was an escaped white tiger hiding in a field near Hedge End.
Officers were sent to the scene along with a helicopter and thermal imaging cameras, at about 1600 BST on Saturday.
When no body heat was detected police moved in and found a cuddly toy tiger.
A police spokeswoman said officers had responded as if it was a real incident, close to junction seven of the M27.
Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote
We sent some local officers and they confirmed they were looking at it and it was was looking at them”
End Quote
Hampshire police Contingency plans were even put in place to close the motorway, but that proved unnecessary.
Police enlisted the help from animal experts at nearby Marwell Zoo, who offered advice and were prepared to send a team with tranquiliser darts to overcome the tiger.
The Rose Bowl said a game between South Wiltshire and Hampshire Academy was stopped for about 20 minutes before they were given the all clear to continue.
Golfers at a nearby golf course were also told to go indoors.
A police spokeswoman said: “After a brief stalk through the Hedge End savannah, the officer realised the tiger was not moving and the air support using their cameras realised there was a lack of heat source.
“The tiger then rolled over in the down draft and it was at that point it became obvious it was a stuffed life-size toy.
“This incident will definitely be the highlight of our day. The CCTV footage convinced us all we were dealing with a real tiger.
“It’s not often an incident leaves our staff with a smile on their face and it just goes to show the diverse type of incident we are called to deal with.”
On the ball or what?
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nocon:
So let’s get this right… Police receive a call from a member of the public who is worried having seen a loose tiger. Police attend, and from a distance see the same object. Police put some contingency plans in place to protect the public, move in closer and find out it is not real. Everyone stands down and has a laugh. I do not see your issue with this at all. Would you have preferred they did nothing? Should they have blundered in to what in essence, could have been a loose tiger at risk to the public and the police?
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If the police had been equiped with a pair of binoculars, could have saved a few bob.
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Truth Man,
How long do you think it took to get the helicopter airborn and hovering over the scene or to put the area`s police force on alert for road closures and evacuations and contact Marwell for advice after the initial police constables arrived, investigated and reported back to base?
In that time you`d have thought that the observant policemen/women would have noticed with or without binoculars that IT WASN`T MOVING AT ALL (no breathing, licking it`s lips, moving it`s head or body parts) and would have wound up their windows and drove closer to check it out.
Perhaps they should have gone to specsavers or perhaps they should visit Marwell Zoo and see how long a big cat sits motionless for. They only have to watch how much a domestic cat at home moves even when asleep to know this was a stuffed one.
I suppose they`ll cry “Elf and Safety” as their excuse for wasting money and time.
It was probably two policewomen sent to check it out.
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By the way did anyone know that there used to be a full size rhinoceros in Oliver Read`s garden in L`Islet?
It used to shock visitors (Olly`s idea of a joke) to his house initially until they realised it wasn`t moving because it was a prop he had bought from the Studio he had done a film for, I think the film was called Hannibal Brooks.
It`s a good job our police chief didn`t hear about it or we`d have all been evacuated off island and Sir David Attenborough called in to do a documentary about how the police handled the situation.
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nocon:
Thanks for the comment on Policewoman, you have bought yourself out of the argument with that stupid comment very well.
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Beanjar:
Your question exactly proves the point I constantly make when people take aim at the police (like the pun?!); since you do not know what tactics the police employ, or how an equipped ARV can assist you are hardly in a position to criticise. Neither are any of the people on this thread I would suspect.
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Neil Shepard:
Great to hear you clinging so desperately to the idea of a conspiracy on the basis of some footage that ‘apparently’ exists. I think you have adequately evidenced the likelihood of your opinion having any credibility.
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Truth Man you’re just a police officer, or like to spoon them – Special Constable.
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“Apparently there is some mobile phone footage captured by a teacher at the school of something surfacing, im yet to see it.”
Blimey, our very own Roswell
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Troll Man, I was asking you specifically about the armoured land rover that I have been made to waste my money on. I take it you can’t come up with a sensible reply then? Or even your usual gushing rot about how the police can do no wrong. Here’s an idea – why don’t they dazzle all the terrifying mad gummen with the sun that shines from their nether regions?
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Truth Man
would it be a good idea for the police to show us all how they can be of use and in which situations along with the likely hood of them being needed? that way they might get a bit more understanding or not from the public who has to pay for all these things.
Or is the case just like the poloticians of some countries where they scare the hell out of the public then act as if their comeing to our rescue like nights in shinning armour? when in fact its mostly a made up bunch of lies to get us to accept anything they do.
And how dare anybody question these saviours?.
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Mr G (GG). Wrong. I am not a police officer or special constable.
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Beanjar:
The police certainly can do wrong, and they do sometimes. On this subject however, since you and I have no idea whether or not they need the vehicles supplied we are hardly in a position to moan, unless we just like moaning for the sake of moaning, which you normally do.
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bcb:
No, I don’t think that would be a good idea at all. I do not like the idea of criminals, or potential criminals knowing what tricks the police might have up their sleeves for thwarting criminal activity.
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Truth Man, what a huge ‘cop out’, even by your standards. So the police know best, we mustn’t question anything they do? They probably have secret inside knowledge that Al-Qaeda will be setting off a roadside IEDs outside Keyprice or machine gunning police cars? If they did, they would probably avoid targeting the armoured car. We all know this is just a pathetic waste of money, they will use it a couple of times in training then quietly scrap it a few years down the line. Never mind, eh. Its just a few hundred thousand pounds, plenty more where that came from, right?
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Guns don’t kill people, rappers do.
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Truth Man
If that is the case then why do we see so many documetories showing how the authorities carck cases of crime?.
How many times have we seen programs about how customs officials know all the tricks of the drug smugglers?.
There must be many examples (or maybe there isn`t?)of how these arv`s can be used? i doubt giving an example or two would would be giving the would be criminals an unfair advantage?.
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And this from a Police force who can’t control the drunks in Town?
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Beanjar you’re just being silly now. If those cars are scrapped a few years down the line having only been used in training I suspect the police, and the island as a whole will thank themselves lucky that there were no firearms incidents during that time.
This does not alter the fact that the police are duty bound to plan for eventualities – especially where the potential in not doing so is death or serious injury. You might not like it the cost involved but luckily for us Patrick Rice does not seem to placing a price tag on our safety.
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bcb:
I know – those documentaries are interesting, but I think it is a real own goal on the part of the police and military. Sadly, these documentaries I am sure are produced to appease exactly the kind of people who are moaning on this thread.
Is sharing tactics necessary to satisfy our desire to criticise and dislike what we don’t understand? Damned right it is.
Is sharing tactics best for our safety? Absolutely not.
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TM, there is a vast difference between sensible planning and delusional paranoia. If you seriously believe Guernsey needs an armoured police car to protect its occupants (ie not the public) from gun and bomb attack you must be crazy too. As chief apologist for the police on the island you must be uniquely qualified to answer the question I have been asking for weeks: if Guernsey needs this monstrosity, why doesn’t Alderney need one too? Or Sark or Herm? After all, “Patrick Rice does not seem to place a price tag on our safety” Thats big of him – and of course, the larger his budget, the more he must be paid.
Is there any point at which you can see this is just plain silly? How about if he spends £10m putting CCTV on every corner, is that OK with you because its all for our own good? This is a ludicrous argument – we do not have bottomless pockets. They should only be spending large sums to combat actual crime which does exist or is likely to happen – not pandering to the delusions of people who are not even local.
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In all the this and that of these (sometimes hilarious) little tales no seem ever seems to mention that most of the Problems in Guernsey are imported.
Guernsey as such allowed the so called master nation to have their say so long as they didn’t open their mouths-
However now they come the great I AM attitude.
Get rid of them, and allow our Island to sleep peacefully as we did for years.
They have their military (some are ours) out in different lands fighting for democracy–
Well how about us having a little of this, let us determine our own ways, we don’t need imports- get rid of them- if had been a little bigger we’d be part of the democratic rebellion-
so folks let the people make a decision. Guernsey for Guernsey primarily. those wishing to stay OK but our ruling, not theirs as it is now.
Remember this: Money IS the root of all evil.
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Beanyjar:
Your last sentence was interesting, and made me realise… you claim P Rice has delusions and make the comment that he is not even local, yet, he is the man with the experience and the man who sees daily crime and intelligence reports. You are not. He is also the man who will be called to account if he fails to protect the public (and don’t forget, there are firearms incidents in Guernsey). Therefore, is it he, or you who is deluded?
Personally, I don’t think you’re deluded – I just think you’re a typical Guern who thinks he knows everything about a subject just because he’s local. In this case, quite simply, you don’t. Not that this takes anything away from your right to an opinion – it’s just that I don’t find your opinion particularly valid since you are almost certainly preaching to this professional police officer who is surrounded by information, intelligence, rules, guidelines and immersed in a duty of care, from your living room.
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TM, I can see you are determined to have the last word. Its just the usual ‘bigging up’ of our Police Chief who you want to convince us is “professional … surrounded by information, intelligence, rules, guidelines and immersed in a duty of care”. Slurp, slurp, grovel grovel. If you do work for him you have certainly earned a pay rise. Unfortunately, in all that patronising slush you forgot to answer my question: If Guernsey needs a £185,000 armoured landrover why doesn’t Alderney, Sark or Herm need one too? If it is down to ‘rules and guidelines’ where are they? If it is down to ‘intelligence’ whose is it? Admit it, you haven’t a clue and nor does he.
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Truth man, I could not agree more. These arm chair experts are very quick to criticise the police but will squeal the loudest when something amiss happens to them.
I guess it boild down to the fact that the chief of police is being local and therefore would have no clue about how things should be done here. He should leave I say and let Beanjar takeover who appears to know everything!
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as usual a pretty depressing thread with the usual xenophobic racist uninformed comments with snide posts from know it alls!
c’est la vie
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“Beanjar … appears to know everything!” No, I don’t. So perhaps you can tell me what use this £185,000 vehicle will be put to, why Guernsey needs one but Alderney doesn’t. Thats all I’m asking and I just keep getting the same old stuff about how the Chief Constable knows best. If he is is expecting gun or bomb attacks on police cars (and that is all this is good for) we should be told. We are, after all, paying for it.
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Beanjar:
Very childish comments. This is not about ‘slurping’ up (I haven’t heard a comment like that since school days), this is about being sensible and that involves you being humble enough to admit you do not know better that P Rice on this occasion. Your comment in your last post “(and that is all this is good for)” fully shows your lack of knowledge. Is that all ARVs are good for? You don’t know!!!!!
And to answer your question, Alderney probably should have an armed response capability, after all, residents there are just as entitled to proper protection. Perhaps that is later in the agenda, perhaps a risk assessment has shown it is not necessary. Again, go on, admit it – we don’t know do we?!
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Errr……..funding black hole anyone? Having ‘no option’ but to put the rates up?
Those quoting Derek Bird and similar – right, the UK’s armed response vehicles really helped them to stop that situation didn’t it.
Plus, to actually deal with the situation they will have to get OUT of the vehicle in the first place – so surely kevlar is a more appropriate option considering the LOW likelihood of this kind of thing occurring in Guernsey.
There are better options for our island than armoured vehicles. For one thing by the time they get there it’d probably be too late anyway. I can see the benefit in certain spots in England where you may be the target of a drive-by or have to patrol risky areas but here?!
Truthman: Yes risk management is vital – if you knew anything about it you would know that that one of the stages is risk assessment where you judge not only the impact of the potential risk but the LIKELIHOOD of it occurring.
This response is just over the top in my opinion and another example of public services wasting our money because they aren’t properly held to account.
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