Do not go higher is decision on Nelson Place
Wednesday 25th May 2011, 11:30AM BST.
THE view of the Little Russel and the Bailiwick’s smaller islands from the top of Smith Street must not be spoiled by an extra storey on Nelson Place.
At yesterday’s open planning meeting, Environment members voted 3-1 to allow the former post office to be developed into shops.
But only if the site’s developer could give a cast-iron guarantee that the roofline would not get any higher.
Applicant and Ossary Estates director Brett Allen said he was pleased with the decision.
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This sounds a lot more promising then the other article that imnplied that the roof line would be higher.
To make this a stipulation about keeping within the existing roof line is great and I hope that it is carried through.
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“cast-iron guarantee” what you mean like a pinkie swear?
Surely Environment can impose the restriction like they do for everyone else who wants to change their property.
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Good decision for once! (I think – not read the whole article yet.)
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My understanding is that they are still allowed to mostly destroy a protected building……
just like Mr Allen did with the markets, and what happened with that one, exactly? It certainly didn’t become the revitalised retail/cafe heart of the town that was promised.
This is just another gigantic white elephant retail project being crowbarred into an already failing town at the expense of a listed building, and yet again, the only ones who’ll profit is Mr Allen and co.
…all we need now is a mono-rail!
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Scarlett – maybe the market building is not a throbbing retail/cafe heart of the town, but it is a whole lot better than the run down area that it was turning into. (Although I do miss the original Lucas fish stall…)
You can protect listed buildings until hell freezes over, if you are prepared to let them sit empty and unused.
Just look at Les Bourgs – the facade of the old house went (in fact, the whole thing went) but when it is finished most people would be hard pushed to notice that it is not an original old farmhouse. But the inhabitants of the building will have a fully functioning place in which to stay.
Hopefully the same will be true with Nelson House – a recreation of the original facade but allowing modern functionality behind.
I am very pleased that the roof is not to be raise although I agree with dd that Environment does not need a guarantee – it just needs to tell Allen that if the roof is raised he will need to tear it down again.
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An excellent post, Terry Langlois – I really couldn’t agree more.
With the market we get the best of both worlds – modern facilities with a traditional façade. Let’s hope the same happens here.
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Modern facilities with a traditional facade filled with what? Two ‘chav’ shops, a decent entertainment store and a ‘ half hearted’ Co-op.
Four shops in that massive area and a restaurant that can’t seem to thrive is hardly progress.
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Slightly off topic but one protected building that should be razed to the ground is the old Ebenezer Church in Brock Road. Why do our planners insist on keeping this crumbling monstrosity?
Re the Nelson Place development can someone who is better at taking pictures than me gather some photographic evidence to show what the view/roof height is now just in case Allen and Co do overstep the mark.
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My point exactly, Burdock.
We can let Mr Allen profit in any way he wishes from destroying protected buildings (and we do), but just because you build it, does not mean they will come.
High rents and greedy landlords have driven many retailers out of the town, and as Burdock says, all that remains in the market is large (mostly UK) companies who can afford to be so thoroughly ripped off.
Another white elephant for us, and another ‘success’ for Mr Allen, with no proper guarantees that he won’t entirely ignore the direction to not block the view (and I know what my monies on).
Well done.
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Burdock – the ‘contents’ of the building isn’t really the issue here. If the businesses in question aren’t successful there they will either close or move. They may even be replaced with something more to your liking.
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Burdock – then you will no doubt be pleased that the restaurant is to be replaced with GBK, which I suspect will be very successful. You’ve also missed out several shops in the main building.
But PLeP is right – the planners and the developers cannot dictate which businesses survive there. Only we can do that.
But I don’t rate progress by the number of outlets, more by whether the area is improved. Walking around the market area is now a lot more pleasant than it was.
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So Terry, you don’t rate a retail outlet (that a protected building has been sacrificed for) by it’s ability to do what it was created for….as long as it looks nice?
Are you serious…?!
In all honesty, I find what is now a very quiet St Peter Port much nicer to walk round than when it was teeming with people, however, the retailers who have lost their livelihoods may disagree, as may the visitors to the island, for whom St Peter Ports quaint little ‘local’ shops were quite a novelty (and attraction).
..and GBK is owned by a huge conglomerate, again, the only one’s who could afford the ridiculous rents.
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Scarlett
Make your mind up. One minute you are referring to the market as a protected building that should have been preserved as it was, and the next suggesting that the success of its development should be judged by how many retail spaces are crammed into it but not by whether it looks like a smarter version of the building that you wanted to preserve.
I take the middle ground – protect the appearance and essence of the building but allow it to be adapted for modern requirements. That way, we have a living, evolving town which reflects the needs of the inhabitants whilst still preserving the history, character and charm that most of us love. I frankly don’t care if oak beams and lintels are replaced with hidden steel and concrete, provided that the outward appearance is not noticeably different.
Whether Town looks nice is massively important. It dictates how we all feel about the place, how we respond to it and how we use it. There is more to our Town than just the number of shops.
As for GBK, I was merely responding to the comment that the current restaurant is not successful, as if this in some way invalidated the market development.
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Terry, Mind fully made up and working perfectly, thanks.
Twisting my words does not make your absurd comment right or sensible, and you know it.
I did NOT say ANYTHING about ‘cramming’ ‘retail spaces’ in at all, what I SAID was that if the retail element didn’t work, then how on earth can we justify giving these buildings over to Mr Allen’s tender mercies (and bank balance)…and your response was, ‘as long as it looks nice, I don’t mind…’
The town is failing, this is a total lemon, and call it what you like, but a pig in a dress is still a pig.
Looking forward to Mr Allens next project, I understand there’s a large building somewhere towards the top of Smith Street where a bunch of entirely out of touch old guys sit occasionally and chat about something or other just to pass the time…..
he’s going to make it into a train station. There’s no trains here, but heck, she’ll look nice, her.
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…and maybe, just maybe, Terry, if the States didn’t p*ss so much of our money up the wall with vanity projects and wasting yet more by letting Bernie commit us to huge expensive projects without checking his facts first, we’d have enough money in the island to do something with these buildings ourselves, rather than having to sell them and our heritage off piece by piece to developers, ay…?
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Scarlett – it looks like I am not the only one that can be accused of twisting words. The basis of your objection to my original post was a twisting of words.
You call my original comment absurd, but I never did say “as long as it looks nice, I don’t mind”, or anything like it. I simply said that I think that it is an improvement, and looks better – two separate assessments.
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…..and the ex President of the US smoked but he didn’t inhale.
Politics is a vocation you should pursue with vigor, Terry, you’re a natural.
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Scarlett – what? try reading my post again. it is not my fault if you cannot understand basic English.
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Scarlett
I think the President was being deliberately obtuse when asked the question.
He said something like “I smoked pot in wind,I smoked pot in sun,I smoked pot in rain,but I didn’t in hail”
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Ray. Cheers, knew it was something like that :0)))))))
Tel. Oopsy! Seems I’ve hit a nerve with the politician remark. There was me thinking it was such as illustrious career, but then, as someone once said, ‘don’t tell my mother I’m in politics. She thinks I’m playing piano in a brothel’.
Mr Allen’s next stop, Lihou. Hear he’s turning it into a nightclub. Says chucking out time’s going to be a bit challenging when the tides up, but what the heck, he’ll turn a profit regardless, and it’ll give Bernie those much needed extra funds to buy up the rest of St Peters.
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Staying on topic for Martino’s sake, unlike him this time around.
It seems to me that something must be done to Smith Street pretty quickly before this street becomes desolate and that PO building has stayed empty for too long, but it must be looked at sympathetically and the height of the building taken into consideration, what a view when you come around the corner in Anns Place.
With M&S ladies clothes going into High St and Gilsons closing down we must not let this quaint town of ours going down any further.
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Scarlett
What do you mean about Bernie buying up the rest of St Peter`s?.
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One only has to go to our sister isle to see what could have been done with our market. It’s a widely held belief that either by negligence or willful intent the Markets were allowed to be run down to the point where the conservation argument was all but pointless.
“I take the middle ground – protect the appearance and essence of the building but allow it to be adapted for modern requirements”
I tend to agree, the place is a rabbit warren.
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Valeite. Yes, sadly, town is a shadow of it’s former self.
Unfortunately, as the markets development has proved, letting developers get their eager dooks on protected buildings to make them into uber retail units won’t bring it back to life…..
as I’ve said, just because you build it does not mean they will come.
We could, of course, look to our illustrious leaders for a plan b, but that would take time and thought, and let’s face it, flogging it to the highest bidder is a sure bet and far easier.
bcb – the compulsory purchase airport debacle.
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It’s so embarrassing wen tourists ask where the Guernsey market is and i have to tell them they are standing in it! We could have had a beautiful market that was on a par with Jerseys but….. Oh no these English minded big wigs running our Island knew better …… And now we locals are paying the price for all their faux pas! Guernsey is fast disappearing all in the name of so called progress? When are the states goin to do something about helping local businesses get their town bak and put a cap on rents to stop greedy overseas landlords rippin Guernsey off!!?
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This is what a restored market can look like. Much character retained, thriving and popular with tourists and locals alike who enjoy the ‘local market’ experience:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/360/market.shtml
…and this is ours, one or two sad remnants of it’s former self left, popular with locals seeking cheap clothes, DVDs and a supermarket stop:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guernsey/content/image_galleries/inside_markets_3110_gallery.shtml
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