Les Genats Estate residents’ clear out could be repeated
Monday 20th June 2011, 2:29PM BST.
Adie Robilliard does his bit at Les Genats Estate recycling drive on Saturday held to encourage people to clear their gardens and houses of unwanted items. (Picture by Peter Frankland, 1148565)
A RECYCLING initiative which allowed Les Genats Estate residents to get rid of their old junk was such a hit they want it to happen again.
They spent Saturday sorting out their household and garden clutter into skips, around 90% of which will be recycled.
‘It is a good idea – they should do it more,’ said resident Mark Bougourd.
‘Even if they charged £1 to dump stuff I would not mind paying and it helps out the island as well.
Painter and decorator Mr Bougourd was one of the many people who not only dumped things, but actually took away something from the site to use in his own home.
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Can they introduce this scheme around the Park Street, Lower Vauvert, Petites Fontaines area please? There appears to be more fly tippers here than anywhere else!
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So in other words its the same as going down recycling down Bulwer Avenue…why couldnt they do that instead?
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Oh course its a good idea and they want it to happen again…… its free!
And we all love a freebie.
When I called and asked for my free skip, I was told I couldnt have one, so inevitably I will continue to pay (significantly more than a pound too!) whenever I need a skip.
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Good for them the only thing is when we need things dumped we have too pay for them out of our own pockets.. Not fair Im sure they where NOT free?
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Free skips for all! Hurrah!
Oh no, silly me.Free skips for the chosen few…
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well well well nothing better then moaning about les genats yet again
yes some people do take advantage but what about the ones that dont drive or dont have anyone to remove what ever they have to Bulwer Avenue
dont any of u have anything better to do is ur lifes that boring??
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Don’t be so negative people. It’s no different from kerbside recycling. If it gets people doing good things then how can it be bad?
It is quite possible this sort of thing will encourage people to take things to the Longue Hougue scavanging yard next time.
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Nice iniative, I hope for all our sakes it proves an overwhelming success – a compelling reason to avoid PSD’s underhand manner of returning to their agenda for an incinerator.
Unfortunately, it seems Guernsey will need to wait another 10 years before the College of Further Education can find the funding to move into the former St Peter Port Secondary School, how much did Deputy Carole Steere mention was needed, oh yes £2.8 million.
Where on earth will the money come from for an incinerator we don’t need or want!!
If Psd return with an incinerator for the third time of trying and clearly against the expressed will of the people of Guernsey, they should all be required to resign en-masse for their clear disregard for public opinion.
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i think rachael some of them are elderly and most single parents that do not have the luxury of a car that others take for granted, so i think it was a nice idea, who ever came up with it good on them, long may it continue, Mr Lloyd, yes we all do love a freebie but some deserve it, shame they dont have more help down there, not only with skips, its a big estate, people would be quick to moan about the mess down there now people are moaning they have a skip, can`t win really!
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Guern for Chief Minister
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well said brodie
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It seems to me that in Guernsey, there are the “haves” and the “have nots” – and by this I mean those who have everything given to them, and those who don’t i.e. everyone who dosen’t live in a States house.
Brodie – you are right, some people don’t have the luxury of a car (but still live in private rentals), but if they don’t happen to have “the luxury” of living in States Funded accommodation (and lets not get carried away with the old argument – “well, we pay our way etc etc” – everyone knows that if you live in States accommodation you pay cheaply for what everyone else in the private sector has to pay dearly for.)
If I sound bitter – well perhaps I am. It’s just that my young family are struggling to get on the housing ladder and won’t get a look in at States Housing. If of course we “threw them out” as was suggested by the big cheese down at the department and my daughter decided to have a few kids without any father in tow, and gave up her job – well, things would be a lot different for her. Good thing we taught her differently.
Its about time that hard working people got some breaks too – (and yes, I am aware that some people on the Estates work hard too).
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It seems to me that there’s a little bit of the green eyed monster in some of the posts here. I agree with Terry Langlois, I’ve yet to see a post that has convinced me this was anything but a good idea.
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This initiative was not about giving the people who live on the estate something for nothing. It was about demonstrating to them what could be done with the things that they no longer wanted/ needed. It is hoped that many more there now understand more about recycling, what and where they can take their unwanted things -to Longue Hougue and for those who don’t own cars, it was a welcome chance for them to tidy up their estate.
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Well said sarnia expat.
Rosie – why should it be a welcome chance for them to tidy up their estate? Where did all the mess originate from in the first place I wonder.
Perhaps this recycling scheme will be extended to other areas so that the rest of us non-drivers can have the opportunity to make good use of it? Anyone see that flying pig?
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Reading between the lines, the focused nature of this initiative suggests that it was ultimately undertaken because it had been identified that a lot of flytipping could be traced back to Les Genats Estate.
In which case it was a good idea and is likely to need repeating.
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The States should people skips down at Les Genats and once they`ve cleared them out then they can put in people who have a little respect for the properties they are getting at cheap rates.
It always beats me that The States as landlords don`t enforce a few rules that surely must be in their contracts like the tenant will be responsible for the internal decoration of the property and the gardens maintenance like cutting grass, trimming hedges, cleaning pathways.
I have these clauses in my rental contract so why shouldn`t States tenants?
It`s down to personal pride I guess and personal hygene, and isn`t it just amazing that people can transport rubbish to a fly tip but not to the correct places of disposal?
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Yeh! I’d happily have this service for a quid.
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nocon
we do have to clean our gardens and all that not alot of people do it but we all ain’t like that i have a alot of respect for my house and my garden’s
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I’m with Terry Langlois on this. What is there not to applaud about this not very costly initiative. The very positive response made it cost effective not only for the people who live there but for the wider community – you and me – as well.
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I’m with nocon on this. Sorry les genats.
If I didn’t keep my rented home and surrounding area to the standards as specified in my lease I’d be evicted.
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I think having a ‘clear out’ of ‘Les Genets Estate residents’ is an EXCELLENT idea. Well done, PSD!!!!!!!
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Les Genats,
Well done but it`s the tenants that don`t do it that should be issued a warning and if they refuse to do the work in their contracts of rental then they should be moved out.
Martino,
Please explain to me how it is cost effective to the tax payer who subsidises the few lazy states tenants.
If a housing estate can`t be bothered to organise themselves to pay for the removal of THEIR rubbish why should others be made to pay for it? If someone on the estate is seen dumping rubbish then others in the estate should report them to Housing.
This sort of scheme wouldn`t be done for a private estate, most pay estate maintenance fees for this service and my taxes could be used for a lot more deserving causes.
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Rosie,
For God`s sake take off your rose coloured glasses and see life as it really is.
It`s about those in Les Genats who can`t be bothered what sort of area they live in as long as its cheap or for free. If it takes a year or so for rubbish to build up before the States have to clear it up at tax payers expense then they`ll live with it till it is, no self respect and certainly no respect for their housing.
Make them pay up or kick them out and put someone in who will keep it clean and healthy.
The States, as landlords should be enforcing their own rules. OUR housing is in their hands to manage properly and if that means making examples of a few to shock the rest into maintaining their housing then get on with it.
I bet you`d see a difference once the word got round that a family had been evicted.
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Maybe the flipside of the cheaper rent that is paid is that the residents of the States house estates have to put up with the bigoted views of people lucky enough to be able to get on the housing ladder. No one want to live on a States estate, specially Les Genats. How come political correctness is the norm these days in respect to everyones race/religion or sexual preference, yet it is ok for people to always be banging the same old “lucky scroungers in the states houses” drum?? I lived on that estate and I hated it, I hated my children living there, letting them out to play in an unsafe enviroment, I used to only let them in the garden (that was kept tidy) I also dreaded telling anyone who asked where I lived because of the way I was made to feel ashamed that I didnt quite make it onto the property ladder. I am sure if everyone could come up with the ridiculous amounts needed for deposits and fees for a mortgage that estate would be empty in a shot. Maybe its about time this “community” island stopped and thought for a second about the people who cant make it onto the property ladder even though they try and try. Oh my rent on my states house was just as much as my private rent by the way. So there was a couple of free skips for people to try and tidy up the area they are forced to live in, so what? good for them. If it is so hard to pay your mortgages as people often moan about on here, surley you should worry about your problems and not be so bothered or jealous because someone else is given a helping hand to make there living space a bit safer or would you prefer that these people live in rat infested slums? Shame on you!
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This is nothing more then class racism at its worst, Scarlet do you suggest gas chambers for your “clear out” concentration camp style? Maybe some of the tenants should be rounded up to lay some train tracks for a train to take them there? you, along with pretty much everyone else on here should be ashammed of yourselves. A couple of hundred quid to clear out a load of rubbish from an estate is hardly the end of the world is it? How much of my tax money is the states going to waist on consultants misguided adventures this year? Probably a sight more I would imagine. I would rather the residents of Les Genats Estate had a nice clean enviorment to live in, then pay for another day trip for a deputy!
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it is depressing to read some of these comments
apparently, some posters would not be in favour of a litter pick on a beach because it makes life too easy for those who leave the litter…
pathetic, narrow-minded attitudes
anyway, what’s to say that these unwanted hoovers and plastic garden furniture (as shown in the picture) were not being neatly stored, but just taking up too much space? There is all sorts of stuff in my garage that could get thrown out. The fact that I have not done so does not make me lazy.
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Really.
Are you seriously suggesting that not one single, solitary States Housing tenant wants to be in States accomodation? I take it that there are absolutely no tenants who choose not to work? And none whatsoever who have another baby to avoid having to work? Private sector tenants don’t have the luxury of being able to make that choice and have their chosen lifestyle subsidised. You quite clearly took steps to move and improve quality of life for you and your family. I too lived in States Housing accomodation for many, many years and we had to maintain cleanliness, decor and keep the garden tidy otherwise we would receive a letter telling us to sort things out. Sadly many, not all, tenants these days don’t bother and Housing do nothing to rectify this.
If there are rat infested slums then surely they would be of the tenants’ own making? Filth and rubbish encourage rats, it’s only common sense to prevent that happening in the first place.It comes to something when the workshy don’t even bother to keep their homes nice.
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Really – do you expect us to believe that the private sector rentals are equal to those States House rents – i.e. £1000 to £1200 per month for a 1-2 bedded place? come on.
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@Really….
Heres an idea to all those who ‘dont really want to live on an estate’… stop having kids before you can afford them. Get a job, save some money, get a better job, save more money… etc etc.
The rest of the world manage to do it, i didn’t get on the property ladder by good luck, but with hard work & sensible living!
I have no problem with this particular scheme, but i think the overall issue people have here is that hand outs have a tendancy to only go to certain people on this island.
Just because we have a mortgage doesn’t make us rich… in fact we generally have a lower disposable income than those given ‘affordable housing’. And i know i would certainly appreciate a free skip outside my house!
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Terry – I think you’ll find that this is a backlash from “middle Guernsey”. Those in the middle are getting increasingly fed up with some (for whatever reason)getting something for nothing and the rich getting richer at their expense.
Judging by the number of cars parked at Les Genats I don’t think popping down to Longue Hougue would too much of a problem.
A mixed load skip now can cost the wrong side of 500 big ones – can I have one free please?
No though not.
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I applaud this initiative; I think that the fact that it has been made available for Les Genats’ residents is the reason for so many posters’ negative and down right rude comments.
I really hope that this offer will be made available where ever a need for area bulk disposal is apparent.
What is wrong with tidying up Guernsey?
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…’class racism at its worst… gas chambers for your “clear out” concentration camp style…Maybe some of the tenants should be rounded up to lay some train tracks for a train to take them there…blah…blah…blah’…..
Ay?!!!!
Jeez, major over- dramatised sense of humor fail, My thoughts, YOU’RE the one who needs a leg up to get over that big ol’hobby horse you’re on, deary.
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Clearly there are people within the States Housing system that abuse it and yes have children to avoid working or cant be bothered to work etc etc. But, that is not to say that every person who lives in States accomodation is in this demographic, yet it appears that everyone is tarred with this brush.
There are always people on every community that try to work things to there advantage, thats just human nature, but to assume that collectivly the entire population of this estate or any states estate are workshy single mothers is a very damning and sweeping accusation.
Many people do work and they probably work harder then most give them credit for, ask yourself this, where do you think a lot of manual workers live? People who keep our streets clean, our shops stocked up, nurse the old in our retirement homes etc. Because unless I am missing something in my job, they are simply not paid enough to be able to obtain a mortgage so they have little choice as to there “status” on this island, yet it seems that no matter how hard you work, if you dont make the housing grade and you do have to live in a States House then you are nothing more then free loading scum. That is what I resent, its not ok to discriminate because of skin colour, but it is ok when it comes to where you live. I do sympathise that yes it appears that states tenants do get a comparitivly easy life compared to the private sector, but if the average price of houses were not so out of step with earnings of the average person/family then more people would be able to buy.
To clarify, yes my rent was not much different to what it is now (less then £100 a month difference) working residents are means tested and the states decide how much you should be paying to rent, not everyone pays £20 a week, yet it doesnt matter as you get thrown to the wolves if you do work just like if you dont. If your face doesnt fit (or rather your address) then you are a free loading scum bag. I am just shocked by this total hatred that seems to spew out for people who live in State’s houses. It is disgusting in my opinion.
Like I said, a couple of skips to make some space and encourage people to maintain a clean environment, its not the end of the world is it?! If you feel that bad about it, next time fill your car up and take your junk down and dump it, I am sure no one would mind.
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Stileto I totally agree with your point, I only wish I had kept mine to myself as I am sure the bigoted few will agree.
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I don’t know why Guernsey bothers with States houses, they should be for the disabled and retired. It used to be for the very poor, however a lot of those living in States houses are now better off than me, they can afford large cars, big TVs and a yearly holiday for the family. States houses shouldn’t be a way of life.
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@islandlifer
I totally agree with you, I have a good job and I earn a good wage and yes I am living a sensible life and saving hard for the £20,000 worth of legal fees I will need to pay for when I can get my mortgage. I am not discrediting the fact that it is hard for home buyers, I know it is.
I am simply trying to make the point that it is very unfair that everyone gets on there big ol’hobby horse (Scarlet) and damns all States tenants to being unworthy blots on the island.
I am all for a nice tidy island and if some people need more direction then others then ok, maybe next time they will go to the recycling centre like the rest of us.
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I think Stiletto hits the nail on the head when s/he says: “I really hope that this offer will be made available where ever a need for area bulk disposal is apparent.”
A (relatively) cheap scheme to get Guernsey residents to recycle more of their bulkier refuse and in the process to help tidy up the island a little (there’s your cost effectiveness nocon) must be a good one. It’s the fact that it happened at the Genats that has got so many worked up about this particular scheme.
I also understand what you’re saying Gilthead about the “middle Guernsey backlash”. Sure there are some of the chavvy, freeloading, ungrateful, socially irresponsible chavs on that estate. We’re all fed up with these types but I’m sure they must be outnumbered by all those good people at the Genats who took advantage of the free skip and who hopefully will be encouraged to recycle more in future. Let’s hope so anyway.
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right, I’m going to stop reading this particular thread. The comments paint just about the ugliest picture of Guernsey that have seen in a long time.
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Adieu Le Bouet … Bonjour Les Genats
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I think it was only last year that St Peters? introduced a free skip weekend ( one unfortunate lad had his good bike taken when he parked it too close to one of the skips )
That was hailed as a great success even though ‘posh’ people were also welcome to use it
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@ Really : It’s a funny thing, the more I planned in life and the harder I worked the luckier I became. Seems to be a common theme to anybody who worked for their own property.
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Martino – I actually think this “scheme” is a great idea. The trouble is if I get a skip in its half a grand!
Really – without giving too much away I know that the vast majority of States tenants are decent people – as to be honest so are the rest of the population.
However, where is the free disposal point at Les Prins?
Whats the difference?
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@Ray
Haha you dont want to go up to St Peters, they will have the wheels off your car as soon as you park, those lazy posh people sitting around all day not working.
@ Saints, I’m sorry I fail to see the sarcasm in your point? or should that be the other way around?
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People…
This is a small island and if the island is going to move forward together we need to work together. It’s very easy to sit at your PC and type!
Let’s not be judgemental and treat people as individuals! Life isn’t fair, but let’s all work together to make it more fair!
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Public Services, how about giving us all a break? What about a free weekend at Mont Cuet for us non-Genatonians?
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Terry – I have no idea where you live on the island or what you do for a living – but by choosing to “stop reading this thread” you distance yourself from the realities of how some people really feel. If it paints a poor picture of Guernsey in your eyes, so be it – but remember this is a public forum where for the time being at least it is a place where voices may be raised and opinions put forward. Every one has differing opinions about stuff, but if you don’t like what is being said then you are better off leaving the forum and perhaps the island and heading off to PC World – i.e. the UK where you are not allowed to speak freely anymore it seems.
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For the very last time now, regarding this heated debate regarding the evidentially HUMUNGOUS debate of earth shattering and devastating importance – it was a JOKE.
There is something seriously wrong in a world where you can’t make a slightly ribald remark about a trivial subject that won’t matter in a million years (and hardly matters now) without people having a hissy meltdown. I hear people parodying ‘locals’ all the time, and as a local, I laugh (if they’re funny).
There’s people DYING on the other side of the world, folks, and here you are getting in a froth about whether States tenants should have free skips or not…
for the record… I DON’T CARE!!
God help us all, I’m off for a valium and a vodka (which I paid for).
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Martino,
Cost effective only for the residents of Les Genats because they are the only recipients of this free rubbish removal and it won`t be of benefit to them either because they`ll just let the rubbish build up again until The States send in more skips.
Just how many of the residents loaded their own rubbish into the skips and how much was done by States workers and how many of those that did went to neighbours who couldn`t load their own for whatever reason and offered to load theirs? Not many I bet.
How many skips were provided for the estate and how many workers were employed to clear the mess?
If this is working so well why hasn`t a scheme been brought forward to expand the service and provide free skips to the whole island an area at a time. “The Greenies” are so strongly for recycling then lets go island wide with free skips. Oh, I forgot, The States are wasting all our taxes on stupid stuff and are making savings so can`t afford a scheme like this.
Someone actually made a terrific suggestion above when they said open Mon Cuet tip free for a weekend. I`m sure there is a lot more waste out there that people can`t afford to dump in the tip because of the stupid pricing at the tip.
Now THAT would be cost effective Martino because more people would recycle for free and THE ISLAND would become cleaner, not just the chosen few spongers.
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Tipper,
What a great idea, free tipping for Joe Public.
I`d like to expand that idea and say not just for one weekend but for one weekend a month for household waste that isn`t accepted by the binmens rounds. Industrial loads charged as normal.
The Longue Hougue facility is working well and is free so why not Mont Cuet?
By the way, what happened to the wood recycling that used to go on at the tip? You used to be able to go down there and get wood dumped by builders and reuse it. A relation of mine recycles old wood to build planter boxes and garden furniture which he sells cheaply to boost his pension. Good work too.
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I live in a states house and i work hard for my monry. In my tenancy agreement it states that i keep the inside of my house and surronding area clean and clear of rubbish,. When i moved in mamy years ago i had to decorate at my own expense which i was happy to do so. Nowadays the states housing send in contractors to do up houses befor tenants move in. It bugs me that alot of these houses are once done up are left to go to ruin as the people that move in can’t be botherede to look after them. i have been in a few of these houses and to be honest some of the tenants live like pigs. Only the other day i visited one where the smell of dog excrement was nauseating and there are young children living there. this person has no idea how to keep a house clean. Another tenant throws all there rubbish outside the house where the children come along and scatter it all over the place. This is left out until the states clear it. They just have no respect. Then there are the others that take pride in their houses look after their gardens and do their recycling and have to put up with driving into an area that looks like a tip. My observations are that the people that have to work for a living take more care. It is an awful lot of them that are on benefit that can’t be bothered as they are used to having everything handed to them. There is no excuse for fly tipping And to use the excuse that they have no transport is a lame one in my books. They soon find transport for things that matter to them. Its about time these sort of people stopped relying on others and got off there backsides and did something for a change. Who can blame people for being bitter when the states continue to waste our taxes on wasters like this.
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I certainly agree with you nocon that this free skip scheme could and should be extended to all high density housing areas (private estates and States estates). As Gilthead says, why not a skip at the Prins. Even in terms of clearing up the Genats estate, though, I feel this was a cost effective measure because it encouraged the more houseproud tenants to act for themselves in taking their old items to the skip. The really scummy (almost beyond hope) residents who continue to bring the whole estate down wouldn’t even dream of using a skip because that’s what their own homes have become – skips with sleeping accommodation!
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Well done Bubble, you are obviously the exception to the rule in that you respect yourself, your family and your property. It`s a pity that Housing don`t carry out spot checks on their properties and wheedle out people who don`t have the same standards as you.
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Well said Bubble, this is a much wider issue than free skips. It is about people who live decently tolerating and subsidising those who ‘live like pigs’.
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There was also a free skip at St Martin’s School Car Park so its not a new idea.
What I find worrying is that there is still a stigma attached to living in a States House.
I was brought up in one in the 70′s and I remember feeling that I could not invite some friends over because I lived in a States House and so was ‘not worthy’.
I find it incredible that we are in the 21st century and people still look down their noses at people in States Houses.
Ok some of the tenants don’t help matters, but I am sure that the majority are hardworking and trying to make a better life for their children.
My parents did not have a lot of money but our house was clean and we ‘made-do’, they made sure I did well as school so that I could get on in life and get a good job and get my own place.
However I do remember some of my Estate friends who were not as bright who were told ‘well you aren’t that bright so you should leave school at 15′, so they have no qualifications and their job opportunites were limited to low salary positions. They were put into the C class at Junior School and that was it, hands effectively washed.
And you wonder why some people don’t bother.
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Teresa – spot on. There shouldn’t be that stigma – and as I said in a previous post the vast majority of States Tenants are very decent people.
I’m afraid its the same in all walks of life, its the minority who spoil it for the rest.
The point of this debate is that those who don’t give a fig get their rubbish cleared – those that do, don’t.
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ok, I’ve calmed down and come back to see if there has been a change of tone. A little, but not a lot.
Gilthead – “The point of this debate is that those who don’t give a fig get their rubbish cleared – those that do, don’t.”
Actually, no. The story was that people that live in Les Genats Estate get their rubbish cleared. It was then the posters who decided to label all of the people on the estate as people who “don’t give a fig”
I’ve never lived in States housing and I have no doubt that there are people who fit the description of lazy layabouts who don’t care about their surroundings. I am also sure that I would not enjoy living next to them. But I am still disgusted with the speed and the ease with which a baying mob was willing to post comments that simply assumed that anyone and everyone living on that estate was a good-for-nothing, lazy, unclean, benefit-scrounging waste of space.
The barely hidden bile coming from those keyboards is both the source and the product of the stigma that Teresa rightly mentions.
If the self-righteous, petty-minded middle class is so willing to dismiss States tenants so easily, then no wonder some then turn out to live up to that stigmatised picture.
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Gilthead – “The point of this debate is that those who don’t give a fig get their rubbish cleared – those that do, don’t.”
Not quite- we were there with the skips, not to clean the estate, but so that the residents could clear the estate for themselves. We were available for questions and information on recycling.
There was one delightful young lad who spent all morning with a wheelbarrow, ferrying things to the skips for all his neighbours. There were some other younger kids who had a lovely time searching out for things that they could bring to the skips and there were loads of adults that gratefully turned up with no longer needed things. And I have to say, that overall, I thought that the estate looked pretty tidy…. I’ve seen much worse!
And then on the other side of the coin, there were a few people who had gardens filled with rubbish that they expected us to go in and clear up for them….. which was not part of the deal. These are the hard to reach people…. they know ‘their rights’ but nothing about the responsibilities that come with those rights. I don’t think that evicting these people (as someone has suggested) would solve anything would it???? It just shifts the problem somewhere else. But I don’t see why their benefits shouldn’t be reduced if spot checks on their homes show that they are not looking after them.
This initiative was part of a larger program to create a residents group that would take more of a proactive role in restoring pride and responsibility into the community. A way of getting the residents to help themselves….. something that we would all benefit from whether we live there or not.
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Terry – I’m glad you’ve calmed down!
I don’t think this is about the “self righteous” middle class at all.
This is about some people who have given to them housing from the state (that’s you and me), abuse it and then the state gives them the means to clear their mess up.
Social housing is a fundemental cog in the wheel of society – and rightly so. As I’ve posted above the vast majority of the recipients of this benefit are fantastic people – no different to anyone else in fact.
However by providing this “service” we (as the state) are actually re-enforcing the stigma which you find so abhorent. Its a paradox.
Roffey’s column in the Press yesterday eloquently oulined the concerns of many in “middle Guernsey” who are being squeezed from all angles. There is an argument that many in this position should contribute more. However, when this section of the population see free rubbish removal from another section of society, many of whom are insulated almost completely from rising taxes etc, their hackles are raised.
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I am a house owner, yet last year i did a project on Les Genets for 8 weeks working with the young people on the estate and one day we did a litter pick up round the estate which the young people enjoyed doing. When the project finished, i didnt, and i still go to the estate on a daily basis as my grandchildren attend La Mare school and every day after school my children play there for an hour or so whilst i have coffee and chat to the people i now class as my friends and who have made me very welcome, the reason being that i am not a judgemental person or feel that i am better than these people and im bringing my grandchildren up the same way. The recycling day was a success and has made people think about recycling, it was just a push in the right direction and the opinion now is that hold a “swap shop” day where whats rubbish for one could be used by another, they have started talking about what can be recycled and also paying a small fee next time towards this initiative. As said its just got people thinking more and plus the morning was fun as i went down to help some of my friends transport stuff to the skips and got a couple of young people involved too, and it got the community coming together and talking. Always look at the bigger picture.
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Gilthead – understand what you are saying but I still struggle to see why it is a bad thing to help people sort themselves out a little.
If you resent (some) States tenants letting rubbish build up in their gardens, why object when someone takes the initiative and tries to break the cycle? It is all very well standing back and saying that the tenants should do it for themselves, but it is evident from the fact that the situation arises at all that this will never happen. Someone needs to take charge of the situation.
I think that we all need to accept that there are some people who will not play their full part in society. That will never change and it is foolish to expect them to change. We can try to alter behaviour to an extend by reducing benefits, but that has other consequences which need to be considered. I don’t regard the one-off provision of a skip as pandering to their lethargy, I regard it as a common sense way to improve the immediate situation.
But if you read the first few posts on this thread you will see how quickly people were willing to condemn ALL residents, even the little lad with the wheelbarrow described by Rosie. If you want that lad to keep growing up with a sense of community then the rest of the Guernsey community needs to stop tarring him with the same brush as the ones that do deserve criticism.
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Terry – I agree! Its a good thing. Overall, all things considered – yep a good thing.
But if my neighbours and I want to do the same its going to cost us £500.
This is what riles some people (good tenants included) is that the taxpayer, who already subsidises solial housing, is paying again for the few who can’t be bothered to respect what they have given to them.
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Well said, TL. The only way to break cycles of ‘unsocial’ behaviour is to lead by example and show the next generation that it doesn’t need to be ‘like that’.
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Arnald – we agree again!! (is that the third time it’s happened) ;-)
Gilthead – maybe I’m less easily riled, but I sort of assume that people getting benefits from the State get all sorts things for free that I would have to pay for. That is life. The real question is whether it was a good idea to give it to them, and in this case I say YES!
That reminds me, I’ve got a few flourescent tubes and expanded polystyrene packaging that I must take to Longue Hougue at the weekend…
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See I have thinking about this and its not states house tenants that I feel sorry for, its not the upper class rich folks who live in there nice houses up in the parish’s that are void of industrial development, nor do I feel particularly bad for the middle class home buyer that is “struggling” to make ends meet whilst gaining vast unrealised profits on the equity in there properties.
No, I feel sorry for the people that can afford the repayments on the mortgage but have to rent because they pay so much in taxes and utilities that they find it hard to save up 20-25k to cover fees and then a 10% deposit to get the mortgage.
I dont get income tax relief on my rent that I pay to my no doubt rich landlord, mortgage payers do. I dont get to stop paying rent after two decades or so. Mortgage payers do. I dont have a valuable asset, my landlord does, you might and your landlord probably does. No I work hard, I save where I can and I pay my landlord’s mortgage of his property. Bring back 100% mortgages thats what I say, then I could jump the fence and moan at all the scroungers and free loaders cause I CHOOSE to buy a house and have the luxury to finance it. (sorry about the back tracking I think Terry/gilthead and Kim along with a few others have helped the uneducated see that states house people are people just like them, just in a different situation to them.
still its friday and the suns up, finally time to sort out my stuff for the recycling centre tomorrow haha
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Wish the States would provide the houses in our area with a rubbish skip!
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Terry – might see you there!
All I’ve tried to point out is why some people cop the hump.
Anyway lets leave this week on a good note or two – you’ve “loved up” with Arnald and I have a rather nice glass of Muscadet awaiting which will be recycled (bottle and contents) without any state aid.
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I see home owning snobbery is alive and well in Guernsey, some things never change.
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Gilthead – I do understand. Hope the wine was a good start to the weekend.
Do I sense a forum discussion ending on good notes all round? Must be a first!
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I agree with sarnia expat’s post above.
It is a big pain to those that work very hard to keep on the jobs and work hard just to see more cushy ride to those who don’t have the same level of ‘I must work really hard to survive’.
Skips are really expensive why should some have this ineffect given to them for free.
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So Basically I think this has sparked the debate of those that have a really hard time who have kids but are not in the ‘lets support them’ catchment group against the ones who are supported lots who it would seem have an easier life.
So Guernsey getting too soft on handouts, maybe. After all every handout has to be taxed on others.
I don’t rent but in Guernsey’s high rental market I can see the comment above that those who are not on great incomes and who have kids and do rent really do not get many benefits from the states compared to those that have managed to get themselves into the states subsudised thing above.
Life is not fair, but the states could certainly make it fairer…
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Blimey a reasonable initiative turns into a States House hate fest.
@GLeP the States will take some of your rubbish and it was called Environment 2000; you can call Environemnt and they will waste tax payers money on the thieving, scrounging, car-keying, pram-faced private sector also.
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Gilthead you forgot one thing when recycling your wine the toilet tax..
Isnt it strange that states housing are on estates and private housing on clos. Whats in a name ?
Also given that my parish refuse rate has risen rather a lot, no insentive to recycle anything. Any ideas how i can put an old settee into a bin sack ?
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yes neil – the press only has to whisper the genats or states house or single mum and out come the hate mongers. sarnia expat, cheesed off and other mob-handed posters resemble typical daily mail reactionaries who will look to see the powerless and crapped-on people of our society trodden down … and trodden down a bit more … and trodden down yet further … until?? cheesed off and the gang find it much easier to mark their animal territory against a powerless minority rather than look at the socio-economic structural reasons that cause gross inequality (look at local company, and middle class, tax avoidance cheesed off and look good, for a start). and if gross inequality causes those at the end of their tether, or causes the weakest, to slowly lose their grip on the rails, who cares cheesed off? but i dare say hating is less taxing than thinking? cheesed off and co. make up an increasing and alarming number of society; cross-class and driven by the majority right wing uk media and by the right wing uk (and local) politicans, who believe any person of the working class or the under class (i.e. a person without ready wealth) is ripe for hounding down and scapegoating. all such persons are now seen as chavs and fair game for ridicule and hate. it can be heard commonly in everyday banter. if we do not fight this lurch to crude and divisive right-wing values, our society will split apart into rich and poor, so markedly, that barbed-wire walls and private armies will separate the two. guernsey will mirror the uk, which will soon mirror parts of s. africa, s.america, the middle and far east, where this is already happening. and although you will have helped widen the gap cheesed off – you won’t ecape the cut without some very serious wealth. so, cheesed off – powerless, you will eventually scavenge in fear like all the world’s poor people are forced to do. (unless, once again, somehow, the poor find solidarity in their numbers).
ps – 20 odd yrs ago when the soviet block was bankcrupted by the usa’s superior arms budget and consequently crumbled, people asked what would happen to the stood-down western armies. one man said if inequality widened between the wealthy west and developing nations those armies would be deployed at the borders of western europe to help the increasingly wealthy westerners hang onto all their stuff in the advance of increasing numbers of increasingly desparately poor people from outside, starved by oil wars, climate change and IMF and world bank tyranny. … and lo and behold – so they are. so, cheesed off – what do you reckon? share? or shoot’em?
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I am working class and proud of it. That’s because I WORK to support my family and pay for the things we need. I don’t have ready wealth.My parents instilled a good work ethic in me.Shame is we see less and less it it these days.
Yes I do resent the scroungers who get free hand outs. The benefits system is no longer what it was originally intended for i.e to help when times were hard. Too many people are allowed to chosse it as a lifestyle. I don’t think you really have a clue Blah.
Yes there are hard working States House tenants and some people who genuinely can’t work. But there are also those living the benefit lifestyle who are far better off for doing so hence no encouragement for them to work. That’s what gets my goat.
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It is probably worth reminding everyone that this initiative did not cost PSD, the States or the taxpayer anything, Everyone there helping ( bar one,) were doing so voluntarily, and the skips were donated free of charge from the skip company.
Also, as I said in an earlier post, (June 24th) the initiative was a one-off and was part of a larger program to get a residents group up and running that would then encourage all residents into a more proactive role in making the estate a more responsible & pleasant place to live. Thanks to this one-off event, the residents now know personally various people that they can call on to help in that process. As an example, we will all benefit from the recycling officer going down there to help in educating and advising on recycling and the proper and right way to dispose of items.
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